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Feminists be like

dankeschoen123

September 30, 2019
102 upvotes
/r/MensRights
https://i.redd.it/jvbzyrax3pp31.jpg
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Title Feminists be like
Author

dankeschoen123

Upvotes 102
Comments 19
Date September 30, 2019 8:54 AM UTC
(6 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/db8pft/feminists_be_like/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/feminists-be-like.867988
https://theredarchive.com/post/867988
Red Pill terms in post
feminist
Top posts by dankeschoen123

The differences

42 upvotes
October 25, 2019
/r/MensRights

This instagram page is all about bashing men and upper castes in India in the disguise of feminism.

1 upvotes
May 18, 2020
/r/MensRights

Comments

[–]iainmf[M] [score hidden] 6 years ago stickied comment (0 children) | Copy Link

This post has been removed because:

Rule 2: Posts must provide value and shouldn't be

  • Memes, which should be posted on r/MRAmemes
  • Rage comics
  • Low-effort images
  • Low-effort text posts
  • sTuPiD cApS
  • Screen shots of media articles without a link to the original

This kind of content belongs in subs specifically devoted to these things, such as r/mramemes.

If you have a point to make or a story to tell, make a self-post. It is not the content so much as the format that is the problem.

Mods may remove low-value posts at their discretion.

Mods may also remove low-quality images eg:

  • Heavy compression artefacts
  • A photo of print-out of a photo of a screen

In addition, screen shots of media articles without a source will be removed. Posts must link directly to the article, or must be accompanied by a direct link in comments.

[–]rosenzweigowa 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago* (18 children) | Copy Link

How is this feminist?

I don't want to defend feminism movement in all its aspects; I realise many of you dont like us and you have all the rights to feel that way. Feminism is certainly not without a sin. There is certainly a lot of ways we could improve, especially when narrative around men is concerned. But this is not the case.

Feminists believe that men are normal human beings. With feelings, complex needs and so on. We actively battle this stupid belief that men think only about sex or that turned on man just can't control himself, because he thinks with his penis. This is the narrative of victim blamers, not feminists. This is the very opposite of feminist narrative.

Of course you can probably dig out someone who claims to be a feminist and says absurds like that. In return I can dig some posts from this sub where some "MRA activist" claim that he hates all women and this is what MRA is about. It is not. And feminism is not about what some random hateful poster wrote (and got down voted to oblivion).

If you want to find what feminists really have to say about men, I suggest digging in AskFeminists sub and searching for "men", "mens issues" and so on. Once I get to computer I will paste some links that show that feminists in general don't think in the way it is shown on this picture, and that actually it is a part of our movement to battle this hurtful belief.

Once again, I'm not trying to make a claim that feminists are great and you shouldn't criticize us. Just criticize us for what we actually do and say, OK? That would be great.

EDIT: OK, I promised links.

My favourite: men asks what do feminism thinks about the "fact" that men need sex for life and they need it much more than women, basically any upvoted comment says sth completely contrary to what is presented on that meme: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskFeminists/comments/9052hd/feminists_stance_on_male_sexual_needs/

General topic on men issues: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskFeminists/comments/bh7doi/why_dont_feminists_talk_about_or_support_men/

In case we also do the "feminists think that men can't be raped!" thing: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskFeminists/comments/a29hlc/m_rape_survivor_looking_for_a_feminist/

Compiled list of resources on men's issues, including male rape victims, circumcision, violence against men https://www.reddit.com/r/AskFeminists/wiki/mensissues

...and more. I just browsed through some "best" posts and did some searches, so it's just result of 5 minute browsing. If you actually dig more to it you will find much more.

[–]jak_22 10 points11 points12 points 6 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

AskFeminists sub

One of the subs known for blocking users for asking questions that challenge the feminist narrative. Unlike here, where you are free to voice your opinion.

[–]rosenzweigowa -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

You can see many questions there that challenge the feminist narrative.

What gets blocked or banned is posts that are utterly direspectful and don't seem to come from good will. Quite often I find there a question like "Why feminists do this and that??", some feminists try to answer that, prove that we don't actually do that, or that there are some nuances to that, and OP basically just ignores the answers, answers to them by finding some quote that can be misinterpreted when taken out of context, jump to actually insulting people who talk with them, troll and so on. I realise if you believe very strongly that feminists do X, and you ask about that and hear feminists trying to prove to you that we actually don't do X, it's hard to change your mind on the spot. But if you come to AskSomeone subreddit without being willing to read the answers, see the issue from their perspective and maybe actually change your mind, then maybe you shouldn't have posted there? AskSomeone is not for people who just want to challenge this specific someone and then go "ha ha, I showed them they're wrong and now they pathetically try to defend themselves, such losers". It's for people who want to ask a question, get answers, read the answers and get to know this specific Someone's perspective.

[–]jak_22 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

You can see many questions there that challenge the feminist narrative.

Where are the questions challenging the pay-gap myth?

Where are the questions challenging the rape-culture lie?

Where are the threads of feminists supporting male victims of rape and condemning false accusers?

Where are the threads of feminists distancing themselves from "kill all men" feminists?

Those questions WERE asked, the users WERRE blocked and banned. It seems you have a very narrow and short experience with that particular circle-jerk of a sub. How long are you following that sub, I must ask?

[–]rosenzweigowa 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

I can try to answer to this in more details in a couple of hours, when I get back from work and can link some more posts. Don't have much time to do it now. Short version answer:

> Where are the questions challenging the pay-gap myth?

Could you just type "pay-gap" or "wage-gap" in their search engine? You will find lots of questions like "how do we close pay-gap", but also "does pay-gap" exist", "do you believe in pay-gap", "what about reverse pay'gap" and so on.

> Where are the questions challenging the rape-culture lie?

I'm not sure what you mean. "Rape-culture" is a loaded term that many people interpret differently, so I'm not sure which aspects of the broad definition you consider to be lie. But anyway after searching for it I found questions like "is rape culture real", "give some evidence of rape culture". But without clear understanding of your question it's hard for me to answer.

> Where are the threads of feminists supporting male victims of rape and condemning false accusers?

Basically you can type "male rape victims" to find threads asking if we care about them, what do we think about them and so on. I glanced on a first few of them, and - yup, as I suspected, we do care about them and we do believe that men can be raped (also by women) and that it is horrible. About false rape accusers - you can also search "false rape accusations" and again, you will find loads of not-deleted questions. You probably won't agree with many posts there, but you won't find any who claims that false accusation are fine.

> Where are the threads of feminists distancing themselves from "kill all men" feminists?

I agree that those may be hard to find on AskFeminists, because I'm not sure what the question would be about. "Do you want to kill all men"? I typed "kill all men" and didn't find much, this one popped first:

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskFeminists/comments/38qq45/my_classmate_says_that_we_could_kill_all_men_and/

It seems that feminists think that killing all men is misandry and they condemn that.

Again, if you want more examples, I would be happy to provide them once I get from work.

[–]jak_22 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Questions that are not deleted are by no means evidence that on other occasions user were not banned for asking them.

you will find loads of not-deleted questions

You kind of prove my point here, that there were questions deleted and users banned/blocked.

Again, I have to ask you, how long ARE you following that sub? My impression, that you have a quite narrow and short experience there, gets stronger with every response I get from you defending their policies.

[–]rosenzweigowa 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

> You kind of prove my point here, that there were questions deleted and users banned/blocked.

Yes, I said it in my first answer to your comment. I know there are posts getting removed, but if it was only because of the topic they talk about you wouldn't find any posts on that topic, because they would all be removed.

I follow it from around May, I think. That might be too short, I agree. However that is enough to see some posts that I would remove myself. Posts written with the pure intention of either trolling or just writing your point and then sticking to it, ignoring any points made by others. Posts clearly without the intention of listening to answers (which, as I said, should be the main intention of posting on AskSomeone subreddits, IMO). Of course most of them are also challenging feminists issues. If someone agrees with feminism they don't feel a need to go to AskFeminists and troll anyone or argue. If someone doesn't agree, often they post in a really aggressive manner. Like (I'm oversimplifying now) "X is not true, so why do you claim that??", and when someone tries to explain why they think that X is true, the OP just gets angry / starts trolling / insults and so on. I would remove posts like that myself. Not because they challenge my point of view. Because they don't add anything to the discourse.

Also even though I'm only since May there, I'm already tired by repeating questions. Like, if you want answers why don't you search for them in existing posts? These posts get rarely removed, by they do get some eye-rolling responses like "how many times do we have to say that". And I guess they could be heard as "Oh no, again someone challenges our view. Why this is happening, stop it."

EDIT: sorry, I just realised my quotes are not formatted as quotes. I will format them later.

[–]jak_22 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

And, btw, the idiotic meme that you responded to in the first place has been removed, as I just saw.

I wanted you to know that.

[–]rosenzweigowa 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh, hey, that's cool :) Still, I wonder if it will appear on mramemes...

[–]jak_22 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

No worry about formatting.

You seem a decent person to talk to, and you are listening, which is awesome. I might have sounded too harsh on you, personally, earlier.

However, my categorization of r/askfeminists still stands.

A sub that is threatening to ban - and banning - people solely based on their post history is not better than a judge asking a rape victim for their previous sexual experience.

Banning for insults is A-OK in my book, there is no question about it. Categorically labelling a question as "asked in bad faith" that aims at the core of the feminist narrative, is not.

Posts clearly without the intention of listening to answers

How do you know that?

Have you ever really LOOKED at what has been deleted there, sometimes with reasons given ("we dont allow TERFS here" being one of the more bizarre reasons), sometimes without?

(And I am not saying there werent threads deleted without good reasons, there certainly were some I would have deleted myself.)

https://snew.notabug.io/r/askfeminists

(wait until it finishes loading, compare to what you see on reddit)

[–]rosenzweigowa 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

https://snew.notabug.io/r/askfeminists

This is amaizing, how could I be on reddit and having conversations like that and didn't know it exists? <facepalm> I judge "what has been removed" on "what posts I stumbled upon and then they disapeared", I didn't know there is a way to retrieve them. Thanks, this is really interesting.

Is there a way to tell if a post was removed by a mod or by a OP themselves? What does "[removed by (THIS MAY NOT ACTUALLY BE REMOVED!!!)]" under every removed post means?

OK, I feel a need to rephrase myself. I don't want to sound like ultimate defender of AskFeminists, there are definitely lots of things on this sub that I didn't see - like moderation process. My main point is: you can find some posts there that challenge feminist perspective, you might find some civil answers there and have civil discourse. I quoted this sub mainly to challenge the hypothesis presented in this post - that feminists claim that men think mostly about sex. Whenever I stumble upon this topic there, it is quite the contrary. I even linked in my first post one of such posts. That of course doesn't mean that other people didn't ask such questions and got removed - I agree with you on that. Existence of the posts I linked don't prove that this sub is not too harshly moderated - agree again. They are proof, though, about what many feminists think of those issues. Yes, there might be a couple of mods there that are too eager to delete stuff. It was wrong of me to claim otherwise without the full knowledge. But I just want to say that those posts that remained and the answers posted there are a proof of the fact that feminists do, in fact, oppose to the hurtful and hateful stereotype that men think only about sex.

About how do I know about the intentions - yeah, that's not an easy one. Both me and AskFeminists mods might be to harsh on deciding that. I would say that while it's hard to assess it only by the question posted, personally I judge it by the way OP answers to the comments - whether they express will to listen and get to know someone's else's perspective. I will try to find some post that shows what I mean. I want to add three things on that: (1) I know that sometimes people might have honest good intentions but just bad communication skills, and they might be taken as trolls. That's unfortunate. (2) When I say "good intentions", that's an oversimplification. In a grand scheme of things, everyone has a good intentions. If I go to a sub AskPeopleWhoThinkWeShouldKillAllPeopleCalledJohn and I would post a question asking wtf they have against Johns, I guess you could say I have good intentions - I want to save Johns. But that's not good intentions from the perspective on this sub. I doubt I would go there with an honest intention to listen and change my mind. I'm just to stubborn in my belief that Johns have right to live. I can change my view on many things, but not really on stuff like that. And I feel like sometimes people go there, having "good intentions" in the sense they think that feminism is a bad movement and it should be challenged in any way possible, but they are not "good intentions" in the sense that they are willing to listen, discuss, keep open mind and potentially change their mind. Finally, (3): I just think that it is beneficial for subs like AskX if posts that are there have some civil discourse, provide interesting arguments from different perspectives and so on. If they end up as a garbage full of insults I wouldn't blame mods for removing them. So, having (1) and (2) in mind I realise that removal of many posts might feel unfair, but maybe it's in some way beneficial, for the sake of civil discourse.

I will read more on deleted posts, thanks again for this link.

[–]jak_22 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Is there a way to tell if a post was removed by a mod or by a OP themselves?

" Snew does not and will not ever attempt to restore content that is deleted by its original author."

What does "[removed by (THIS MAY NOT ACTUALLY BE REMOVED!!!)]" under every removed post means?

It means you still have to compare the posts manually. Reddit tries to actively ban and hinder third-party-applications like snew (part of their road to censorship).

Glad that I could show you something that might be useful for you.

[–]Grubnar 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I am sorry, but I can't tell if you are lying, or if you really are this naive.

[–]Maxwell1138 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You seem willing to read so I thought I'd share some stuff with you.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/9v6tqj/a_list_about_feminism_misandry_for_anyone_who/

From how you began your statement you seem aware that Feminism has some very serious problems. So please don't be discouraged because the 'Not all Feminists!' argument feels very disingenuous to people here. Because Feminism as a political and social movement is constantly pushing extremely hateful and dangerous messages/narratives. And it sounds like you know this, or can at least accept its possible.

If you want Feminism to be a good thing, stop being a Feminist. Because all the other Feminists are using you and making you a part of their hate machine.

[–]rosenzweigowa 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you, I will surely read this!

I edited my post to include the promised links. I also encourage to at least look through them.

I won't comment on what you linked in details because I'm at work and don't have much time to read now, so I will have a closer look in a couple of hours.

[–]huxepenner 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Because feminists are the ones who keep spouting male stereotypes like the above.

[–]PhilkIced 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm glad you felt confortable posting here, I think this kind of interaction between both groups is good and should happen more often.

I understand your point and see it used a lot by the few active non-radical feminists I've seen, indeed MRA sometimes have people be sexists against woman or post something that isn't really relevant or positive to anyone, everybody makes mistakes, it happens to the best of us.

However I think it's also obvious that this kind of situation is rare and a minority here, quickly gets downvoted into oblivion unless it's just a joke to break the ice and make people smile a little among the sea of depressing serious issues here, like this very thread we are in right now.

On the other hand feminists who actually want equality like you are rare and can easily be observed to be the vocal minority, maybe your numbers are actually higher than the radicals, I couldn't know, but among the ones actually voicing their opinions you are the minority, we could make a little bet that for every post about men you find in a feminist sub that is rational and actually discuss the issue openly like the ones you posted, we could find many more were the user was simply banned or downvoted into oblivion while getting harsh offenses thrown at him and not a single answer even trying to see his point and think a little about it to be able to disagree in a logical and respectable way.

The truth is that the vocal majority of feminism is made of radicals who think men are all evil just for being men and even though what you are saying should be true and you are correct in theory, I feel like it doesn't hold up to reality, you can't decide what feminism is by yourself, the actions of the whole group have weight on that just like here anyone who offend you for voicing your opinion in a polite way like you did would weight us down and give you a bad impression of us, "he does not represent us" works when a thousand people point at one, it doesn't hold up the other way around.

Also in the country where I live (Brazil) the feminist motto is literally "Death to the penis" (Morte ao penis), you can google it up and use a tradutor to see if their opinions match yours, and they claim they represent feminist ideals just like you do, but they are every feminist I ever heard or seen about in my country, openly posting that phrase in social medias as if society now finds it acceptable to be proud of being sexist, while you are just you, and while I believe there are more like you, I've never seen one in person in my country and I surely see dozens of the radicals every day.

[–]rosenzweigowa 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh, yeah, that's the problem of basically any ideology or group. IMO the angry and the stupid are usually the loudest ones, so sadly they tend to shape our ideas on what the group they claim to represent is about. It's similar with MRA. If you don't read actual MRA stuff, but just sit in your bubble and occasionally read "MRA" post that popped in your feed there is a chance it is there because it is stupid / hateful, and someone screenshoted it and now shares it with the world out of outrage, or maybe for the lolz. I feel it's the same with left - right discourse, democrats - republicans in USA and so on.

Plus media are really awful as far as bringing truth is concerned. Most media care only about views. What gets views? (1) controversial stuff, (2) stuff people already know and confirms their beliefs. No one wants to turn on the telly and hear "actually, that thing you believed about feminism / MRA / left / right / Trump / Bernie / whatever? It is mostly wrong". So feminists can talk a lot of reasonable things, and occasionally say sth stupid, but mostly the stupid things will make their way to the media.

> Also in the country where I live (Brazil) the feminist motto is literally "Death to the penis" (Morte ao penis)

This is deeply disturbing. However I have troubles finding anything about that, could you maybe help me? I typed "death to the penis brazil" and got results about men who lost their penises in various terrible accidents or assaults... When I typed "Morte ao penis" I got some results, but not in English (what a surprise). Is there anything there about them in English?

Anyway, that might show that it's also localisation issue. I'm in Poland. I attended various feminist demonstrations, meetings and so on. I've never got the vibe that there is any hatred toward men there.* Actually the feminist organisation which events I sometimes attend have sometimes meetings dedicated to various men's issues (violence victims, single fathers, stuff like that) . So maybe my view on feminists is shaped by the "good feminists" that I happen to find around me; maybe it's either the matter of country you live in, or just pure luck...

*I'm not saying I haven't seen people claiming to be feminists and hating men, of course. But not around me. It was always on the internet. For example there is this hateful sub GenderCritical, that claims to be "the most feminist sub ever", that most feminists on reddit really don't like and distance from. Many of them are just hateful toward trans people and men. But I don't think that they shape what constitutes to be feminism. While there are 40k of them, that's still not much comparing to 1M on AskFeminists, where GenderCritial gets heavily criticised whenever it's mentioned.

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