~ archived since 2018 ~

Finnish Conscripts' union calls for voluntary military service scheme

Razorbladekandyfan · 2019-07-09T14:29:23+00:00

"Finland's conscripts' union (Varusmiesliitto) has suggested changing the country's obligatory military service so that women...

Razorbladekandyfan

July 9, 2019

18 upvotes

/r/MensRights

Archived from /r/MensRights

r/MensRights is a community advocating for the social and legal equality of men and boys since 2008.

TheRedArchive is an archive of Red Pill subreddits and blogs. This page is our copy of the original post.

/r/MensRights archive

Download the post

Want to save the post for offline use on your device? Choose one of the download options below:

PDF TXT EPUB

Support the archive

Everything here was supposed to disappear. Banned subreddits, deleted communities, cancelled blogs — much of what is archived here survives nowhere else.

It stays free — no paywall, no account — for the next man who comes looking, the way it was free for you.

I pay for the servers, the storage and the bandwidth myself. If you want this record still standing in ten years, become one of the people who keeps it online.

Support the archive

Post Information

Title	Finnish Conscripts' union calls for voluntary military service scheme
Author	Razorbladekandyfan
Upvotes	18
Comments	37
Date	July 9, 2019 2:29 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/cb1lej/finnish_conscripts_union_calls_for_voluntary/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/finnish-conscripts-union-calls-for-voluntary.873952 https://theredarchive.com/post/873952

Comments

[–]DJ-Roukan 7 points8 points9 points 7 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[–]Razorbladekandyfan[S] 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]DJ-Roukan 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Razorbladekandyfan[S] 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]xNOM 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]Razorbladekandyfan[S] 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]DJ-Roukan 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]xNOM -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]DJ-Roukan 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]xNOM -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]DJ-Roukan 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

You are misrepresenting statistics

The women in the Israel Defense Forces are female soldiers who serve in the Israel Defense Forces. Israel is one of only a few countries in the world with a mandatory military service requirement for women.

According to the IDF, 535 female Israeli soldiers had been killed in combat operations between the period 1962-2016 (this figure does not include the dozens of female soldiers killed in Israeli service prior to 1962).Women have taken part in Israel’s military before and since the founding of the state in 1948, with women comprising over 20% of Israeli forces in 1948, and 33% of all IDF soldiers and 51% of its officers, in 2011, fulfilling various roles within the Ground, Navy and Air Forces. The 2000 Equality amendment to the Military Service law states that "The right of women to serve in any role in the IDF is equal to the right of men."As of now, 88% to 92%of all roles in the IDF are open to female candidates, while women can be found in 69% of all positions.

Who did you serve with? I was a SGT with the first marines. Seen it first hand. We are not talking combat, we are talking conscription. Women can participate in combat support, drive trucks, fly planes, helicopters, APCs, artillery, cooks, supply and all logistics...and they have been doing it. Not everyone is cut out to be a grunt.

..and the women can also be conscripted for civil service if they do not qualify for military fitness.

You basically have not presented viable argument here, as it's all been proven, and hyperbole and conjecture is not going to change that.

Next you'll be telling me the childbirth system is sexist.

..and shaming language is not going to help either. Women already serve in the military. As I said, the claim you are making is a a slippery slope, and it can be extrapolated out to a great many other jobs, so what you are suggesting here is that sexism only applies when it does not benefit women.

Bottom line here, there are rights and responsibilities with being a citizen. When all gain equal rights, but only half the population is required, through conscription, to defend and protect those rights, especially when proven that they can serve in that capacity, it is text book case of discrimination.

And Finland is finally coming to terms with that, and are starting to act on it.

[–]xNOM 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

According to the IDF, 535 female Israeli soldiers had been killed in combat operations between the period 1962-2016

Out of 20,093 total 1948-1997

Women can participate in combat support, drive trucks, fly planes, helicopters, APCs, artillery, cooks, supply and all logistics...and they have been doing it.

I have no problem with that, but pretending this is the same as what the men end up doing, is a bit of a joke. They also serve less time than men.

Bottom line here, there are rights and responsibilities with being a citizen. When all gain equal rights, but only half the population is required, through conscription, to defend and protect those rights, especially when proven that they can serve in that capacity, it is text book case of discrimination.

Unless they're dying and killing equally as much as men, I'd say nothing's been proven, and that responsibilities have in no way been equalized. Only that they can take safe jobs so that more men can go into combat.

[–]DJ-Roukan 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]xNOM -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

My contention is that they be responsible, in some manner, equal to that of men.

It's not possible. Because there's no such thing as equality. Everyone (including you and I) obviously measures it differently.

If we are going to take men's lives for a year, for two years, then we are to take women's lives for a year, or two years. I don't care if they are picking up trash on the side of the road as community service.

In traditional societies, the argument is that children take women's lives for years. I don't support or oppose this. There are many ways to be fair. I would personally prefer a conscription system where noncombatants serve twice as long and get paid half as much, or get retirement benefits at an older age or something. And I agree with you that the current system in the US is not fair. But ultimately each of us only gets one vote.

Enjoy the rights freedom affords you, don't expect someone else to pay you way any more than paying for your dates, your house, your divorce etc. Equal is equal, and women need to start owning that. This entitlement nonsense needs to stop.

I agree, but please give up this idea of "equality." It doesn't exist. There is only fairness. When most men and women are equally happy/miserable, then you know that fairness has been achieved. It might mean men die 5 years earlier and pay for everything, like they do now. If the average man has no problem with this, it's his own fault.

[–]DJ-Roukan 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]xNOM -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]DJ-Roukan1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Wisemanner 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

[–]colombomumbojumbo 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Razorbladekandyfan[S] 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Wisemanner 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Razorbladekandyfan[S] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]xNOM 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]Wisemanner 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]xNOM 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]Wisemanner 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]xNOM 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Razorbladekandyfan[S] 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]xNOM -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Razorbladekandyfan[S] 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]xNOM 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Razorbladekandyfan2 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]colombomumbojumbo 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]xNOM 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]colombomumbojumbo 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]cawkz 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]colombomumbojumbo 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link