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In feminist Scandinavian countries, boys face one of the world's widest gender gaps in reading and education.

BlueOrange22

February 21, 2018
102 upvotes
/r/MensRights
https://www.brookings.edu/research/girls-boys-and-reading/
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Post Information
Title In feminist Scandinavian countries, boys face one of the world's widest gender gaps in reading and education.
Author

BlueOrange22

Upvotes 102
Comments 13
Date February 21, 2018 7:01 PM UTC
(8 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/7z81vi/in_feminist_scandinavian_countries_boys_face_one/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/in-feminist-scandinavian-countries-boys-face-one.905575
https://theredarchive.com/post/905575
Red Pill terms in post
feminist
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Comments

[–][deleted] 29 points30 points31 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

It's not only reading. Finland is the only PISA country where girls outperform boys in everything the tests measure. The gaps aren't as big in other subjects, but, the way things are going, they will be. The Feminist influence is too strong.

On the other hand Feminists just celebrated that according to the WEF's Gender Gap Index Finland's educations system is one of the most equal n the world - as if they didn't know that the index is a Feminist rip-off. but it gives them the permission to carry on with the disastrous policies and widen the gap.

They also dealt out a book called "Everybody should be a Feminist" to all 15-year olds.

Feminism is cancer.

[–]tempaccountnamething 20 points21 points22 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The "equality index" only penalizes the score when women do worse.

Women are 48% of university students? Not equal.

Women are 85% of university students? Perfect equality.

Women's life expectancy is 3 days less than men? Not equal.

Women's life expectancy is 15 years longer than men? Perfect equality.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, that's how Finland is the most equal: boys are worse n everything.

But actually the indicator for health was the number of healthy years. Furthermore, the "equal situation" wasn't the same number of healthy years but a couple of years more for women. That's how they got the health situation in Russia better than in Sweden. In Russia women have more than 10 healthy years more while in Sweden just 2.

It's a Feminist rip-off that has been made to prove that women are worse off when they are not.

[–]svenskbitch 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Feminism is not feminism. A few things are different. For instance, in Sweden shared custody upon divorce and parental leave for fathers is a leading feminist issue pushed into law - and although I am more of a libertarian suspicious of government intervention, I have to admit the results are astonishing: our fathers are truly involved in their children's lives. Few examples of government intervention has managed to change society for the better in such a tangible fashion.

The same goes for sexual violence. Far fewer heads have rolled in the metoo debate. Male victims are a much more visible part of the feminist agenda, though still peripheral. And despite our overzealous new rape law, cooler heads seem to prevail in courts - I have yet to have heard of the kind of judicial or administrative overreach that appear characteristic of, say, college adjudications in the US.

Similarly, feminists in Sweden recognise the education gap clearly and are even taking actions - although, of course, women's concerns still clearly come first for political reasons if nothing else. At any rate, they are not holding development back. The gap persists because the underlying structural issues are deep and thorny: basically, as education became available to broader swathes of the intelligence distribution, girls of average intelligence were better able to take advantage of the opportunities. That is great, but the downside is that fixing the system to cater better to their male counterparts is a long-term prospect at best.

Even the crazy stuff is less dangerous than they are presented abroad. Our gender neutral daycare centers are in fact run by people who deeply care about children, and they mostly manage to focus their efforts on liberating children to be who they want to be, rather than forcing all boys to play with dolls. A fine line, perhaps, but as radical as we sometimes are, our instincts for moderation and consensus run deeper at the end.

Anyway, I am still against feminism. But I am also keen to keep criticism nuanced and recognise what the movement gets right. Which is often more than we think.

[–]M60P 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Sweden? The same feminist country that decided to shovel sidewalk before plowing roads after a snow storm because they believed more women use side walks and more men use roadways?? Yeah - it really sounds like Swedish feminist want equality (said sarcastically)

[–]svenskbitch 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Of course. Not only our feminists, but we as a society are often ridiculous. We have even introduced a new pronoun - a feat that many a dictator has failed to do throughout history.

My point was not to defend Swedish feminism. I just wanted to highlight that there is a bit more nuance to the story, and that it would be completely wrong to assume that it is simply a more extreme version of the (vocal parts of) US feminism. And while the snow shovelling story is of course silly, it is also innocuous - despite our conformism and entrenched ideology I would content that, de facto, we often do manage to correct ourselves before we start taking that ideology to extremes that seriously hurt people. Not always, but most of the time. Wishful thinking patriotism? A little bit, perhaps.

[–]svenskbitch 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

At the same time, I venture that Sweden would be right at the top of countries to be in for, say, fathers in nasty divorces. Shared custody is the norm, alimony non-existent, and child support capped and applied only in cases of excessive income divergence. Mandatory paternal leave ensure that you will probably have had time to bond with your children. Allegations of violence only matter if proven.

Or if you are falsely accused of rape. Sexual assault is harshly punished, but the focus is on rehabilitation, and jail time is often suspended (and rarely exceeds two years except in atrocious cases). And despite our ridiculous rape laws, common sense tends to prevail (well, we will see).

Or if you are in hazardous employment. Swedish labour laws are on the forefront in labour conditions - something which benefits mostly men.

Or if you are in employment threatened by automation or outsourcing (also mostly men, though picture is mixed). While hiring and firing is easier even than in the US, you get generous unemployment benefits conditional on your participation in a raft of highly applied, excellent retraining programmes - seeing textile workers turned into computer programmers in a year's time without threatening their living standards or that of their families.

Or if you just want to be happy. Women are happier than men in every country of the world, but the difference is tiny in Sweden (and huge in Afghanistan, where being shielded from harsh labour conditions probably seems more important to women than having to walk around in veils or hijab).

So while I am an MRA sympathiser and, most of the time, against feminism (or its vocal, extreme parts, not its basic assumptions or dictionary definition), I would like to highlight that the world is not that simple. We should not see Sweden as the paragon of feminism and assume it is hell for men, just as we should not jump to the opposite conclusions for, say, Saudi Arabia. After all, in all of the cases above, representing leading MRA issues, I would still much prefer feminist Sweden to Trump's US. There are other situations in which I would not; the US is leading the world in going after female sex predators (albeit from a base of pretty much zero). But we have little to gain from simplifying this issue. We should see MRA as the missing part of a feminist movement that got many things right, but because of gynocentrism missed out on essential pieces that we can bring to the table.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

All your points would make a feminist froth. Shared custody is something they hate, they don't even mention it. Sexual violence. If a man is violated sexually by a woman (groped, licked, having an ugly girl get you drunk and taking you home a.k.a. a coyote fuck), its comical here. To be a guy and to get offended by this means showing weakness. Some women can be very derisive, its embarrassing. As for men that assault women, I still don't think I've met one (not like they would tell me they beat their wife). Gender neutral daycares. Not sure what that is. The one my son went to has a sensory bin, toys, they did story time and whatever. Wasn't that bad.

[–]svenskbitch -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

My point was: the mainstream Swedish feminist is not frothing. Feminism has for decades combated the natural tensions between a yearning for equality and a de facto status as a women's lobby. Along the way, there have been decisions to make. Upon vehement lobbying, NOW opted for the women's lobby route on the custody issue, while Swedish (feminist) mainstream did not.

I still oppose Swedish feminism. But to read that feminism has infused society (arguably true), and then assume that our society is an extreme version of what US (victim) feminism propagates, is wrong.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

This post is propaganda.
If you want an introduction to swedish feminism then here you go:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5ETiMA8OQw

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Swede here. Svenskbitch´s comment makes me wonder if we live in the same Sweden.

  1. Shared custody. What are you talking about? Men are still disadvantaged in court.

  2. "Male victims are a much more visible part of the feminist agenda, though still peripheral". What are you referring too? We have the most hot headed, crazy, mob version of metoo in the world. Plenty of male heads have rolled and no female. Our metoo makes the U.S version look like kindergarten.

  3. What actions? Like being forced to read feminist books throughout elementary school and high school? =Books about history, technology or politics were not ok as we were supposed to read about teenage pregnancies, victimized girls, strong girls, girls who were heroes, girls who were great in school. All to show how men were always the evil troublemakers.

  4. "Our gender-neutral daycare centers are in fact run by people who deeply care about children" Are you crazy? Daycare centers are the epicenter of hate against boys. Everything masculine is automatically labeled as bad.

Wow. Just wow. Svenskbitch is not male. I look back at my upbringing in Sweden thinking that I missed so many great years because I was raised to always feel guilty of everything that felt masculine. Sweden is not a good example of how to treat boys.

[–]shit-zen-giggles 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Reflects well with what my Swedish friends tell me and what I experienced when living there for a while (many years ago).

[–]shit-zen-giggles 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Objectivity and realms of explanation in academic journal articles concerning sex/gender: a comparison of Gender studies and the other social sciences

Gender studies (GS) has been challenged on epistemological grounds. Here, we compare samples of peer-reviewed academic journal publications written by GS authors and authors from closely related disciplines in the social sciences. The material consisted of 2805 statements from 36 peer-reviewed journal articles, sampled from the Swedish Gender Studies List, which covers >12,000 publications. Each statement was coded as expressing a lack of any of three aspects of objectivity: Bias, Normativity, or Political activism, or as considering any of four realms of explanation for the behaviours or phenomena under study: Biology/genetics, Individual/group differences, Environment/culture, or Societal institutions. Statements in GS publications did to a greater extent express bias and normativity, but not political activism. They did also to a greater extent consider cultural, environmental, social, and societal realms of explanation, and to a lesser extent biological and individual differences explanations.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5502066/

note: That study was done by Swedish Scientists.

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