An interesting analysis on "Toxic Masculinity".

Karmaze · 2023-12-24T13:52:08+00:00

So, I'm not a fan of Peterson, to be honest I think he's an obsessive paranoid, but I do agree with this model that he puts forward. I don't think it's tyrannical...exactly the opposite. What he argues for is a world where we recognize a multitude of competence based hierarchies. Where we recognize that everybody has strengths and weaknesses and we learn to recognize and respect that. I feel like this is the best possible option for our society.

One of the problems I have with a lot of leftism (and I do consider myself on the left, just on the UBI/labor reform left not the "deconstruct the status quo" left) is that I am considered about the alternative to the status quo actually becoming more, and not less hierarchal. And frankly, in a way that I'm not equipped, through identity or background or personality to actually play.

In any case, I personally view "Toxic Masculinity", if you're going to use it to describe male traits and behaviors, as that the Male Gender Role is still a thing, and what we're talking about is people who for one reason or another fail at healthy ways of achieving the Male Gender Role, so as such they're forced into unhealthy ways of achieving it. Now, as originally defined, "Toxic Masculinity" should actually be addressing the Male Gender Role and the enforcement of it. Full stop. But that's never going to happen. It's why I actually consider most discussions of this subject to be in itself examples of Toxic Masculinity.

Fantredath · 2023-12-24T10:01:22+00:00

Deep philosophical ideas, but ultimately, if we're going to deconstruct what has been labeled as "Toxic Masculinity" it's important to reference it to the negative behaviors we would call "Toxic Feminism" or "Gyno-centrism". As Men we have to control ourselves, but that becomes harder and harder the more these toxic aspects of Feminist rhetoric continue to ruin Men's lives.

Pointing the finger and blaming anyone in particular is not the way to solve a problem. In this way Feminism is actually failing. Personal responsibility is far more important than laying all of the blame at somebody else's feet. Personal responsibility is actually what empowers people to change and make changes.

I currently do not see any Feminists taking Responsibility for the negative aspects of their behavior, and until they do start taking Personal responsibility, they will be Doomed to play the role of Victim, and they will never actually be able to achieve a state of equality. Taking Personal responsibility is the only way to empower yourself to be able to make the necessary changes, and I do not currently see Feminists making any real change for the better for society.

They have accomplished what they can and are now stuck in a vicious cycle of hate and shame. There's not much Men can do until Women start acting more mature and take control of the personal responsibility that they demanded be given to them.

Johntoreno · 2023-12-24T16:43:03+00:00

Zizek finds utility in the rebellious spirit

The problem with the discourse about "Toxic Masculinity" is its utter lack of empathy for its primary victims(men). People are only invested in how certain norms make men hurt others and how we can create new norms to exploit Men for benefit of others, the arguments also tend to veer towards fearmongering about male violence as if we're dangerous animals. Idk what type of drugs the Academics are smoking to think that men will be receptive to this kind of messaging. The message they're sending to men is this:-

"Men, we don't care about you, here's the list of behaviors we(progressive intersectional feminists) demand of you, OBEY you privileged Cis-Het-Male Demon!"

This isn't any different from how what they call "Toxic Masculinity" came to be, its men's behavior being controlled by shaming. Feminists point out that men trying to control women using cultural norms is oppression and yet they somehow think that its not oppression when they do the same to Men. Men need to reject Society's oppressive standards of masculinity including the ones that the Feminists are trying to force on Men.

AlecMaiz0 · 2023-12-24T17:40:30+00:00

this rebelliousness is crucial in the deconstruction of certain status quo.

This is why feminists go out of their way to pretend 'feminism helps men too.' It's a way they trick men into channeling their rebellious spirit for women's interests rather than focusing on men's own interests.

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