Crosspost "This thread got me thinking about the issue of gender in mental illness (link in comments)" from /r/MensLib:

Hi! First off, I recognize that this may be construed as a somewhat random thread to post. It is essentially a discussion about certain meme images which have been perceived as implying that boys' depression is somehow more valid than girls', and it made me ponder a lot about how we see gender in terms of depression and similar mental illness. First off, I'm going to go ahead and admit that I think there are some oversimplifications in the attached argument. For one thing, I think it should be noted that on a technical level, a lot of the offending memes don't directly say that girls' depression is invalid, though I still think they have some misogynistic connotations. Rather, they compare preconceptions of girls getting lots of support for their illnesses in contrast to boys being mostly ignored (more on that later). There were a few specific notes that I take issue with as well. Most notably, the OP states that "I've seen some people defend it as "decrying toxic masculinity" but the memes clearly imply the man is willing to ask to help, it's just that society doesn't care." This quote implies in my opinion that toxic masculinity exists solely in a man's head, which is a problematic viewpoint given that it very frequently manifests itself in the form of others' dismissal of male mental phenomena. The OP also claims that "most discussions about toxic masculinity on the left have become about criticizing some comically exaggerated version of it," which at first I interpreted as meaning that toxic masculinity doesn't actually exist to the extent that men claim it does. Upon reading further comments by the same author, however, I came to the realization that OP actually means that only the most extreme displays of toxic masculinity are routinely critiqued, whereas more subtle forms (i.e. jokes implying that a disliked politician is gay) are ignored. This is a point I absolutely agree with.

White we're on the subject of agreeing, I agree with the claim that unfavorably comparing the experiences of depressed young women compared to men is a toxic form of gatekeeping. I would argue that it stems from genuine problems worth discussing, but is let out in largely unproductive ways (itself largely a function of toxic masculinity). I honestly think it's fair to say that women who admit to having depression or a similar mental illness are more likely to get support, particularly in youth. Certainly when I was in high school, the depressed girls generally had plenty of friends who regularly checked on them to make sure they were doing well. There was one girl who regularly cried in the hallways, and she was reasonably popular. I don't think every girl would be this supported, but it's certainly not unheard of. By contrast, I, an openly depressed guy since eighth grade, didn't really get any support until my senior year (and even then it was just from one person). I got sent to the guidance counselor if I even began crying noticeably. I recognize that that's anecdotal evidence, but sadly to my knowledge we don't have any quantitative sources discussing the phenomenon of social support related to depression, and I suspect that the existence of memes like the ones linked are reflective of similar experiences on the part of others as well. Don't get me wrong, it varies on a person-to-person basis. But because sexist societal traditions suggest that women are fragile creatures that need support while men are tough machines who can and should always push themselves back up, along with the fact that girls are encouraged to be social from an early age while boys are encouraged more to be tough and aggressive, I think in general young women are more likely to receive support than young men for behaviors traditionally perceived as "weak".

Similarly, because of these disparities in socialization, I think a girl is more likely to help a friend up than a boy when that friend is having a hard time. As our society tends to pit girls as close friends with girls and boys as close friends with boys, I think this also contributes to girls getting more support. And it should also be noted the fact that, indeed, a lot of guys don't actually feel comfortable admitting their depression to themselves or especially others. I honestly suspect that a lot of the people who make the memes in question haven't actually tried to get much support for their illnesses; rather, they may be basing their perceptions of events on (not entirely inaccurate) speculations.

I think a lot of the comments on the linked thread get into the problematic side of those memes. A lot of guys see girls being offered shoulders to cry on, and told they're strong and beautiful people, all while the guys themselves are barely even noticed to have problems. So I think they jump to the rather easy conclusion that the girls have less reason to be depressed, because more friends inherently equals more happiness. Aside from the question of whether all the friends actually offer any genuinely course-changing help, I think there's a degree of blame put on women, a sense of "Well, if they could start focusing on my problems instead of theirs I'd be happier!" This is highly misdirected, as I think any and all people, across and within genders, have their fair share of problems and if some factor leads to depression, I don't think it's anyone's right to deny that depression's existence or justification. Depression shouldn't have to be justified; any decent person who needs support deserves support. Besides, one can never know everything another person is dealing with. I may have struggled more than my female friends in terms of having my less-than-traditionally-masculine voice heard by peers, but they have had more struggles than me in terms of drama, being taken seriously by older adults, treatment by strangers, etc. I don't believe in making this sort of thing into a competition.

Another factor that plays a big role in our perception of mental illness across gender is, unjustifiably in my opinion, sex and romance. I myself am asexual and this isn't really a subject I directly relate to especially well, but I'd be negligent in not acknowledging its role in common discourse. The OP specifically notes the perception that women have easier access to sex, refuting this argument by pointing out that the sex which women have easier access to is usually not particularly emotionally intimate or deeply fulfilling. I'd say OP is right on the money here. Another point specifically addressed in the attached thread is the homophobic tendencies encouraged by toxic masculinity. There are underlying fears of being gay across male communities, and opening up about emotions and comforting other men are nonsensically perceived as gay. I think these sexual tensions extend to opposite-sex connections too. Our society tends to oversexualize platonic relationships to the point where there's usually a degree of sexual tension on at least one person's part when it comes to cross-gender friendships, which has hindered discourse in terms of gender's role in mental illness. I've known young women who make a point of emphasizing that they're there for everyone who's struggling from mental illnesses, but when I tried to open up to them they left me on read. I think there's this false sense that if a guy and a girl talk about emotions, there's inherently some relationship beyond friendship going on, which makes many men and women alike to talk about mental health with the opposite sex. Plus, gender roles put the idea into many people's minds that men are tough and will always find a way to get through a hard time, while women need lots of other people to stop them from breaking down into hysteria. I don't think most people outside of Men's Rights communities and perhaps other factions of the political right think directly in these terms, but I do think that those archaic ideals are latent within quite a lot of people's inner consciousness.

Sadly, as has been the case in many men's issues, I get the sense that immature reactions to the issue of male mental health have led the subject not to be taken as seriously as is needed. Toxic masculinity itself is partly to blame for this; as direct conversations about depression are prohibited, a lot of younger males are more liable to "express themselves" through "silly" memes than through more productive and inclusive forms of discussion. It's also just plain easier to play the victim card instead of making any strong effort to challenge the forces that have hurt you. Consequently, a lot of toxic interpretations of the issue have ensued. The oversimplified if not totally false perceptions of the advantages women face in society's views of mental illness have led to memes and more serious assertions that encourage division rather than empathy, and as a result I think some people hold a misguided skepticism towards the situations themselves which the arguments try and fail to challenge. I feel like I might see some traces of the whole "actually men don't have it that bad in terms of mental illness and they're really just all incels" thing in the thread, though they're much less direct than they're sometimes portrayed in our society and a lot of really good points are raised. I think part of the problem of the issue with mental health is that it's been perceived as a battle of the sexes; either women need help or men do (with society's pendulum generally swinging towards the former at this particular moment, though this does not justify sexist reactions at all). I'd argue that to make true productive strides in treating mental illness, we should address as many of its diverse triggers as we can find, and we shouldn't be afraid to recognize which factors put particular genders in different places in terms of how their mental illnesses are perceived. As men there is definitely more stigma for our mental illnesses, but that shouldn't take away from the stigmas and other challenges which women face as well.

I recognize that I wrote a very long reflection, and that most of you probably aren't going to read it. And it's pretty late at night so I'm sure parts of it are grammatical nightmares! I'm also fairly confident that I have misrepresented or neglected some important piece of the picture, so don't be afraid to let me know what you agree or disagree with here. Thanks for taking the time to listen to my discussion!

Posted by thereslcjg2000 | 7 November 2019 | Link