About Islam and MGTOW

smashmarxism · 2016-12-04T17:22:46+00:00

While Islam undoubtedly oppresses women in some ways, I think Muslim men are even more likely to engage in white knight behaviour than Western men are. Muslim men seem to have this attitude that women are delicate beings who can't and shouldn't do anything for themselves and need men to run around after them.

If you take a properly Muslim country, like Saudi Arabia, while women have few rights themselves, they are also totally supported by men and are expected to do nothing for themselves.

MGTOW would be absolutely impossible in Saudi Arabia because all men are expected to get married and work to support a woman who does nothing, it's non-negotiable.

IsNormalBuddeh · 2016-12-04T19:04:33+00:00

If you are wondering if that is true just read the Quran. It really encourages you to beat women.

Patently false. The verse in question doesn't encourage husbands to beat their wives.

“As to those women on whose part you see ill‑conduct, admonish them (first), (next) refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allaah is Ever Most High, Most Great”

Most of the commentary I've read on this verse advises a husband to not hurt their wife or leave a mark if they must hit her. (Source) That might still be horrendous by modern standards, but it's a far stretch from encouraging a husband to beat their wife.

Commentary: Ata said: I said to Ibn ‘Abbaas, what is the kind of hitting that is not harsh? He said, Hitting with a siwaak and the like. [A siwaak is a small stick or twig used for cleaning the teeth - Translator]

The purpose behind this is not to hurt or humiliate the woman, rather it is intended to make her realize that she has transgressed against her husband’s rights, and that her husband has the right to set her straight and discipline her.

The standard for becoming an infidel in Sunni Islam is committing shirk (associating other deities with Allah). You don't become an infidel by hanging out with non-Muslims.

It really encourages people who are not muslim and bans any interaction with them, or you become an infidel.

Anyway, this wasn't meant to be an attack on your assessment of Islam. I've been an ex-Muslim for almost a decade and I abhor a lot of things about Islam, but some of things you wrote are straw man arguments.

Spungo1 · 2016-12-04T19:04:34+00:00

You might be a bit confused about what the Christian bible says. It's every bit as petty and stupid as the Islamic bible. A council of morons will write the same stupid shit as 1 moron. Since I work in an office, I'm inclined to think something designed by committee would be even less coherent, but that's just my opinion.

The big 3 religions of Abraham are the same (in theory) because they are created by people. They are based on whatever the culture was at the time they were created. The Christian bible really does say you are supposed to kill people who work on the Sabbath. It also explicitly forbids nice clothes, jewelry, and braided hair. Ironically, extreme Islamic nut jobs are doing exactly what the Christian bible literally says. The opinions of women are worthless? Yes, it says that. Kill people over trivial nonsense like Charlie Hebdo? Yes, it says that.

Christianity rose out of the dark age when people stopped following it. A person who actually read the bible and followed it would be horrified to see the things modern Christians do. Churches are filled with graven images. Christians speak the name of god all the time, which was actually punishable by death at one point. Christians wear gold or diamond wedding rings, and they wear their nice clothes to church, all of which are forbidden.

My point is that Islam and Christianity are fundamentally the same thing. They have all of the same rules. The only difference is that Christians stopped following the rules. It took many centuries, but it happened. Islam will come out of its own dark age when Muslims start to see the benefits of abandoning silly rules. They'll still call themselves Muslims and they'll still do Islamic traditions, but they would be religious in name only. We already see the mental gymnastics surrounding the burkini. Women want to look beautiful, men want to look at them, but a book says they must be covered. Solution? Skin tight clothes that show every curve. It follows the letter of Islamic law, but it completely ignores the spirit of the law. That's what change looks like. Same deal as yoga pants in the US. It follows the letter of anti-nudity laws, but it completely ignores the spirit of those laws, which I think is a step in the right direction.

We need to remember that tradcons of all religions are not our allies. They will say stuff about wanting to undo feminism, but what is their solution? It's just another dumb system of forced conformity. If forced to pick between feminists and tradcons, I think the feminists are closer allies.

Darth_Bicycle · 2016-12-04T21:43:19+00:00

It's funny how feminists, especially Nordic feminists seem to get really excited about Islam. They see Muslims as some kind of political ally in their fight against patriarchy. Amusing.

Coluphid · 2016-12-04T20:01:17+00:00

Thank you for this post.

It is refreshing to see Islam discussed realistically, especially from someone who has to live exposed to it day by day. No doubt you face even more Interesting Times ahead as Turkey's authoritarian leaders backslide the nation further into a theocracy. Ataturk would be ashamed.

You are absolutely right on all counts.

It is frightening to see the potential for many young men - disillusioned by society and their lack of sexual options - considering Islam as a meaningful way to address their suffering. In many ways it is the Dark Side - quick, easy, seductive. But it does not provide the answers, and instead only forments hatred and discontent in the soul. The kind that forces its believers to act out violently as their only hope for resolution.

Having taken a good deal of time to objectively read up on Islam, I am fully aware of what it represents - including an implicit Existential threat to Western culture.

All of us need to be vigilant against that threat. Within and without. I strongly encourage everyone to read up on Islam. Read the Quran, read the Hadiths, read up on the History of Islam and the middle east. Be objective, be thorough, come to a reasoned conclusion of your own deciding. But as always, be mindful of your own emotions, drives and desires; all religion tries to cater to and exploit these - Islam most of all.

H4RV3YSP3CT3R · 2016-12-04T22:38:31+00:00

Man you made so many claims about Islam but didn't provide one reference?

I keep an open mind but tbh your post sounds like resentment from a religion you left for whatever reason, than compatibility.

The 4 women=1 man testimony example I have researched and its true. And it makes sense. Look at the number of false rape accusations, how women change their stories, how they "hamster".

The beating women..really. Where is it in the Quran? Please cite that. Prophet (p.b.u.h) least sermon was to treat your women right, more along the lines of "best of you is who is best to his wife".

I switched from red pill to mgtow throughout the last couple of years. And honestly, the beliefs in Islam have solidified my position in every regard in these movements. From the mandated gender roles for a functioning society to the virtue of modesty to how men are obligated to care for their wives (financially, emotionally etc) IF they hold up their own of the bargain (no promiscuous behavior, loyalty, intimacy).

If the moral society of today was how Islam mandates it (in some aspects), then there would be no mgtow or red pill. Because it was be a balance of the sexes and everyone would have a happy life.

I'm sure you think I have bias due to me being a Muslim. But feel free to discuss this since your post comes from deep seated resentment than actually validating mgtow.

UglyPrince2000 · 2016-12-04T17:30:30+00:00

I read the Quran or at least tried to read it and you are right about Muhammad's ego all over that book. You can read through the anger and ego in the first few pages, it's so aggressive and in your face. I had to put it down because it felt like reading someones personal rant or personal journal. It is like you said very primitive.

diock1000 · 2016-12-04T18:33:58+00:00

[deleted]

cfuse · 2016-12-04T19:21:59+00:00

Anything that presents a threat to autonomy can be a threat to going your own way.

Cristoff13 · 2016-12-04T21:44:02+00:00

while Muhammad was just a single man

Ha, the Koran wasn't written until 50-100 years after Muhammad's death. In that time many influential men would have had input into the growing religion, and would have ascribed their insights to Muhammad to grant them prestige. The Koran was probably almost as much as a group effort as the New Testament.

Noomene · 2016-12-05T02:33:17+00:00

The woman's place is to be nothing in islam. They are not even considered to be a reliable witnesses

great ... I'm starting to love this islam you're talking about

It really encourages you to beat women

Fuck ... how can I convert to this ... now

Dude ... you sound like a rotten NAWALT undercover mangina. What the fuck are you doing on this sub if you are sooooooo worried about women, and you still have such high ideas about them? Stick to your fucking stuffed Turkey or whatever shit hole you come from and forget about MGTOW. Another option for you is to join Paul Elam's ass boys and share with them your worry for women in islam, and maybe they can find you a cunt to date you.

The issue with you morons from that region of the world is that you always feel the fucking need to bring religion up in any discussion, whether you are atheist or religious, it's like religion is written all over your DNA. MGTOW is free from the topic of religion, and politics and shall always remain that way.

SnapshillBot · 2016-12-04T17:16:06+00:00

Archived for your convenience

Snapshots:

This Post - archive.org, megalodon.jp, ceddit.com, archive.is*
https://www.reddit.com/r/MGTOW/comm... - archive.org, megalodon.jp, ceddit.com, archive.is*

^{I am a bot.} ^(Info ^/ ^Contact)

Ontrus · 2016-12-04T20:31:15+00:00

You have got my respect for being an atheist. Could you be that openly with Islamic friends or family? I heard the atheist book The God Delusion was banned in Turkey and a lot of people from your country who were around me when I grew up in Germany took their faith very seriously.

guillotine101 · 2016-12-05T00:20:10+00:00

Requiring more women ideally that aren't intimately connected is the only way to be sure you'll get an approximation of the truth.

Unrelated but been watching turkish series magnificent century the last few days.. it's highly deviated from actual history but addictive and just oozes awalt..

I like how Islamic cultures set up the women with their own heirarchy and let them figure things out with all the bickering and intrigues and only come to the men once they all agree or reach a stalement and need an arbiter to hear the debate.

It's also interesting to me how these cultures have thrived in resource sparse regions.. so far as I understand agriculture, and wild game and gathering are all far more difficult in the middle east than in more fertile climates. Yet the men provide and protect for all their women.. though modern femisim will argue that any gender based division of labor is terrible

iamlikethewindbaby · 2016-12-05T02:19:59+00:00

Islam is a steaming pile of shit that needs to wiped off the face of this planet. Sign me up for Crusades 2.0.

FUCK THE CUCKS AND WOMEN WHO ALLOWED THEM INVADE EUROPE .

gnocchistic · 2016-12-06T04:43:48+00:00

Islamic rule of law(shaira law) is being promoted in the country for several political reasons

Prove it.

Turkey's constitution is still secular and will always remain so. So your fear mongering, misinforming people here who are not familiar with the subject and taking advantage of their ignorance about it, is dishonest to say the least. You remind me of that fucking epic Turkish sham of a person called ergun caner who tried to fool Americans by using his turkish heritage and claiming that he knows all about islam and that he was a jihadi. But then it turned out that he made all that up taking advantage of his turkish heritage and of american's ignorance about the subject, pretty much the exact same thing you're doing here. You're like an anti-trump libfag who goes on a turkish forum telling Turks that Trump is a Nazi, the son of Hitler himself, taking advantage of their ignorance of American politics. And they will believe him, because they do not know better.

It really encourages people who are not muslim and bans any interaction with them

Prove it!

And if you're gonna use verses from the Quran, you'd better quote them in their context and add two or three verses before and after each quranic quote so that people can deduce the context themselves.

You see .... you people in Turkey and other places of the middle east kissing the west's ass .... are really really really the lowest kind of life on the planet.

Title	About Islam and MGTOW
Author	diock1000
Upvotes	27
Comments	44
Date	December 4, 2016 5:15 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MGTOW
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MGTOW/comments/5ggf2v/about_islam_and_mgtow/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MGTOW/about-islam-and-mgtow.619585 https://theredarchive.com/post/619585

Comments