Is this true? Computer engineers, please weigh in

BlackSandstone · 2020-06-24T09:06:48+00:00

Women who work at Google are also underpaid, according to a lawsuit filed in 2017 by the U.S. Department of Labor

Which was proven false. After that don't place much confidence in the quality of the research in this article.

Women tend not to work in technology because it is an unpleasant job with long hours , high competition, and only modest rewards unless you're in the 95th percentile. The era of notable woman programmers was also the era when software development was managed as an offshoot of electrical engineering, and was held to standards of rigour. A capable engineer is and always will be rare, gender doesn't come in to it. The 70s-80s brought us systems that genuinely changed the world, but also introduced cohorts of people trained to be programmers, instead of engineers. If you're interested in this topic, I recommend The Mythical Man Month collection of essays which goes into it in depth from a perspective of when it was actually happening.

The difference in approach cannot be overstated; an engineer can say with authority "It cannot be done well" and be taken seriously. A code jockey - the kind the universities produce to the point that Barclays gets hot and cold running java developers - either gets it done or gets the sack, with the flaws in their artefacts not clear until it's too late and the job has to continue.

For the last thirty years or so, the non 95th percentile people like me have made careers of fixing the mistakes of our predecessors and introducing new ones for our successors. This is demoralising because we're usually smart enough to realise it's happening, but obliged - often because it's clear the business will collapse if we don't - to do it anyway.

The 95th percentile it must be said live by different standards; but then the 95th percentile of any discipline live by different standards. Silly Valley chaps and their various international peers can be understood if you recognise making the world changing product isn't necessarily their motivation - beating the world into submission is. They have near unchecked power and little if any social accountability - and this is exactly how it should be for them to change the world effectively. In that environment, the feminine perspective is a disadvantage.

JBP for his flaws goes into it in some detail here :https://youtu.be/NV2yvI4Id9Q?t=90 from the law perspective, scale that down to 3 or 4/5 and you have the tech perspective.

redheinie · 2020-06-24T08:56:53+00:00

Just look up ENIAC, UNIVAC, Turing machine, Newman architecture and you can see for yourself.

cycloneous · 2020-06-24T15:51:02+00:00

Computer nerd and geek here!

The short is no, and the long answer is the pioneers of computer engineering falls to many men such as:

Bjarne Stroustrupe -- inventor of C++
James Gosling -- inventor of Java
Dennis Ritchie and Brian Kernighan
Von Neuman -- inventor of the computer brain, aka processor
Ken Thompson -- UNIX co-creator
Linus Torvalds -- inventor of linux

While women did make contributions, they were and are far and few. Of the names that come to my mind are Grace Hopper (COBOL), and Ada Lovelace (first programmer). I have yet to hear of any female pioneer that invented anything major. They have made contributions, but nothing I can think of that we would consider major that would effect computer engineering as a whole.

Vidar34 · 2020-06-24T08:41:13+00:00

Yep, during the second world war "computer" was a job, not a machine, and it was done by women, because the men were fighting in the war. In the years after WWII the women who did computer work went on to do computer-related jobs, because they were the most qualified.

Centenarian010 · 2020-06-24T09:44:29+00:00

This article is nothing else than well written utter garbage.

In a review of her book "Brotopia" a guy destroys her claims one by one through solid data analysis. His conclusion:

" To conclude, what motivates Brotopia is gossip and envy. It is an opportunistic ride on a mythical wave. Chang ignores psychology findings that do not fit her narrative theme of female suffering at the hands of men. She avoids discussing well-known results, some published over a decade ago, that can provide far less sinister explanations as to why more men don’t nurse and more women don’t code. "

https://quillette.com/2018/10/12/brotopia-analysis-and-review/

Exactly_what_I_think · 2020-06-24T08:22:52+00:00

Yes, They where "computers" they did the math.

debanked · 2020-06-24T08:35:14+00:00

To their female peers, it’s just alienating. “I remember thinking, What are they giggling about?”

So, wouldn't that mean all those firefighter calandars that women giggle about alienate men from becoming fire-fighters

The logic

DangZagnut · 2020-06-24T10:01:55+00:00

500 error web server is broken.

rayedward363 · 2020-06-25T21:47:17+00:00

Women want a cushy desk job that has power without real responsibilities. Real programmers often have to work hard and difficult hours. The most common cited name is Ada Lovelace, and credit where credit is due, she did come up with the first algorithm, though calling her a programmer is a very dark gray area.

djronnieg · 2020-11-11T17:16:19+00:00

They needed armies of women to deal with thousands of punched cards, roles of paper tape and telex operators. I still gotta see the movie 'Hidden Figures' to make my own judgement but I'm sure there were a group of fine female mathematicians involved. However, that doesn't mean we should forget about the men who made NASA their life for a decade. After JFK got shot, it became a crusade and some of the wives were unable to understand and opted for separation and divorce.

I'm happy that Swedish model's playboy spread was used for testing the precursor to the JPEG format. I'd love to hear of actual female computing pioneers but some of these headlines are akin to out of context quotes from the Moon-hoax community and the like. Some will show a video of a NASA guy saying "we need to make a proper radiation shield for our new space craft or find a way to deal with cosmic rays"; then the video commentator says "see, that means we never had the ability before.. therefore we couldn't have gone to the moon!"

See, I got records of women who worked near computers. Therefore we should pay them more today.

So in conclusion many female I.T. pioneers were involved with:

Data entry (tele-type/electric typewriters tied into MODEMs)
Handling tons of punched-cards
Somebody has to rewind the paper-tape.

Of course many of them learned to code but very few busted their asses coding in assembly language to make C possible. For Apollo Guidance Computer (AGC), mostly men workd on the code but I'm sure some very skilled women did too and I'd like to hear about those specific women. I am certain that there were seamstresses who manually weaved the binary code into "magnetic rope memory", a variant of magnetic-core memory. That's actually kinda badass to see.

Nowadays, when they "Women in I.T.", it can mean a lot of things. Sending a few snarky Tweets for some corporation is not at all equal to coding.

Title	Is this true? Computer engineers, please weigh in
Author	rocko20002
Upvotes	8
Comments	12
Date	June 24, 2020 8:20 AM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MGTOW
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MGTOW/comments/hex8mz/is_this_true_computer_engineers_please_weigh_in/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MGTOW/is-this-true-computer-engineers-please-weigh-in.699473 https://theredarchive.com/post/699473

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