Perception vs Reality

Cheesypeesy · 2015-07-05T23:40:36+00:00

Life is so much simpler when you live for yourself, and not for the irrational pursuit of pussy/relationships. I am forever in MGTOW's debt for pulling me out of the whole charade.

OriginalGravy · 2015-07-06T01:41:50+00:00

They don't realize that knowledge and ability is merely a stepping stone.

They're not very good at optimizing for knowledge and ability either. The only insight and skill they desire is whatever is necessary to raise their status among their peers and the opposite sex. My issue with these sorts of people can be summed up in two words: unjustified focus.

Perhaps there can be reason to have sex and engage in romantic relationships, it is unlikely to be universally wrong, but I don't think you would expect an intelligent person to allocate an... excessive focus upon such things, to the point where they feel the need to make up narratives about anyone who isn't getting laid every night: how such men are unsuccessful betas, cowardly neckbeards, whatever negative label comes to mind, and how they of course are every positive label in the book. Almost certainly anyone engaging in such rationalizations would be... a savage, more in touch with reactive, almost primal thinking, than any sort of more reasonable approach to life. It would be a rationalization of their biological instincts, without any real calculation of how much they should listen to such imperatives, whether such a focus actually leads to a better life or not. Your full set of values is much more than just your primal instincts.

You would expect a bit more from sentient existence, would you not? Intelligence is the ultimate form of control over reality: if you had a superpower to manipulate sub-atomic particles, you would need extraordinary knowledge to use that power responsibly, in a way which would not result in massive discharges of energy that would immediately kill you and everyone on the planet, as you move particles into configurations that are not stable. If on the other hand you had such perfect knowledge, you could probably do without the superpower: if you truly knew exactly how reality worked on such a fundamental level, you would not find it particularly hard to generate tools to allow you similar levels of control over reality. The knowledge itself would be a superpower. The ways in which our understanding of reality allows us greater control over reality should be obvious, I think. If it is not, look at the species of apes which do not share our level of sentience, and contrast their life with ours.

When you imagine an ideal mind, what should come to mind is someone with a deep thirst for knowledge, for that is what allows you to shape your life into a better state, your body, mind and environment, all of it. Everything flows from an accurate map of reality. A more accurate understanding of reality almost automatically correlates with greater insight into what you can do. On a fundamental level, action and thinking are not separate concepts. In order to do anything, in order for it to be an action, not a happening, you need a mind. Your body, then, is an extension of your mind. Even your brain is not much more than a representation of your mind, a vessel for a mechanism that could theoretically exist in any other physical format, if the exact same pattern of interactions was preserved.

When you expect such general competence from man, you do not immediately start looking for whether someone is a high-status alpha who gets a lot of pussy, or whether they're a coward, low-status neckbeard. The very idea seems silly --- you would pay attention to the quality of their mind, because that's the part that matters. Your mind is a factor of every instance of your life. Sex, in contrast, surely does not deserve such an intense, overbearing focus as it has. There is far more to the universe than that.

I have argued previously for survival as an objective standard of value, as something that would be timeless in its utility to any sentient existence. I would say that the pursuit of a better mind is another ultimate value. For surely it is better to have more control, than less. To go your own way you must learn to shape your own way, and you must first see the paths you could pursue in order to know which of them you should pursue. This, more often than not, is the hard part: to even envision alternate paths. Seeing all of the options available to you would be a feat of perhaps unattainable, ultimate intelligence --- but the more you see, the better. While sex and women might be a part of your own way, surely the far greater focus would be to reach above and beyond, to extend your mind, to continually make yourself into an ever better version of yourself, to see with greater clarity. In the same way sex and women might be a part of that... they might not either. It doesn't particularly matter. It shouldn't be the focus of your life.

If you're thinking and you're living, and you seem to be getting better at those things... that's what really matters.

For all its silliness, I maintain that Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann utterly nails what man's life should be like:

"Whether laughable or impossible,

such is the path that all great men walk.

If there is a wall in our way we break it down.

If there is no path, we make it with our own hands.

See the invisible; do the impossible."

There is so much false, unmotivated struggle that is rooted in guilt and exploitation in our society, that many have learned to associate thinking and effort with pain. In reality, however, as imperfect as the brain may be, it comes with something amazing, a physical, emotional reward for the utilization of your mind. Presumably it was an evolutionary advantage, but it can be leveraged for so much more. In its natural state, when you are using your mind to make a better life for yourself, thinking itself is a pleasant experience. Imagine the feedback loop of utilizing your mind to better your mind, the sheer amount of value that is generated when thinking itself is pleasant and a reward in itself, when the result of that thinking is a reward, a better life, when the result of that thinking is also a better mind that can make an even better mind.

mark3d1 · 2015-07-06T00:33:09+00:00

This post may need to be stickied.

My only disagreement is with a label for this shared philosophy, as the self-defining nature of this negates the use of labels altogether. Semantics.

thrownaway_MGTOW · 2015-07-06T07:17:58+00:00

Because bragging by MGTOW who have passed through it already would be in poor taste and we know that seeking validation whether from women or society is empty.

Well, and also... you left out one other thing from the list at the start:

Their are numerous MGTOW that are rich, successful, in time, money, overall quality of life, or some combination of the three. Many MGTOW are attractive and actually have to actively discourage female interest via hiding their status or other strategies.

We're also SMART enough to not post pictures of things that are directly related to our personal lives -- no pics of the house (or even the views from the house), nor of the workshop, or the office or business, the cars, or the other toys.

Maybe occasionally some minimal and rather vague text descriptions of some of them (if/when appropriate to a specific comment thread -- i.e. advice on where to buy a house to minimize tax-burden, what type of house has less operating/maintenance costs, etc.) -- but at the same time not enough to identify closer than a couple hundred mile radius (and a few million people).

As to WHAT we own... Well, not sure if it really qualifies as "hiding" -- I mean CAN you hide in plain sight? I suppose you can -- but none of what I own was necessarily designed to EITHER act as "camouflage" any more than it was designed to "impress" anyone, and it certainly wasn't bought with ANY "status" in mind (just more for functional value and/or personal tastes & fulfillment).

The same with personal appearance & clothing, sure I can pull some stuff out of the closet and "dress to the nines" (and when the rare appropriate "formal" family or business occasion exists I'll do so) -- but for the most part I wear what makes me comfortable... and, LOL why the fuck not? I mean ... unless I need something more for weather or "work" purposes, well for daily wear especially in the spring/summer/fall that's pretty much limited to one or another of several pairs of cargo shorts (and probably fairly worn or even stained, but fairly lightweight and definitely comfy), and if it gets cool in the evening I'll toss on some lightweight shirt and when necessary a pair of boat shoes.

So the thing is... what is there in any of that to actually "brag" about? In terms of what most people think -- "status" and fad/fashion "impression" -- there's nothing (hell they'd probably even feel "sorry" for me, LOL).

Especially the external, the "perception" -- it simply isn't all that impressive -- nice looking stuff, good quality, but not ostentatious. Internally the "reality" of the home is technically somewhat impressive (more so a decade ago than now I suppose), wifi theater room, home gym & etc; efficient and well organized with several other relatively "cool" features... but most people wouldn't find those impressive either.

The only thing I can see as impressive is that it's all debt-free & paid for... and I am financially arranged that I have minimal costs & only have to do minimal work to maintain it, plus I have virtually NO fear of "losing" any of it... not to some bank, not to the government, and certainly not to some bitchy woman. (Little fear in fact even to losing any of it to some natural disaster -- basically only a tornado or fire could affect it, and both pretty rare {the former is entirely random, not a shitting thing you can do about it; and the latter minimized further just by having no woman or children in the house} and provided I lived -- well insurance could replace/rebuild it all in fairly short order.)

To my mind that's all sort of (or should be) a "given" for a middle-aged MGTOW. There's really ZERO reason for a still-single & childless man my age to NOT be well situated financially, and really in every other regard as well (if I'm any proof, and I think I am, there's even time for a major business failure and recovery in there, a start-over from scratch & negative dollar territory, and without any major lottery/windfall gains -- the key is chiefly avoiding/minimizing the financial drain of women).

But of course... as you noted, from the RP or blue pill/feminist perspective, as an MGTOW well I must just and only be an "incel" luuuuzer(!) that no woman would ever want.

LOL, Riiiight.

(And by the way, fine by me if they think that, doesn't affect me in the least.)

EDIT: I do kind of cringe that the above is "bragging" -- but I'm going to rationalize/justify it on the basis for younger guys who might be reading that YES, it can be done. I was a "hot shot" boot-strapping entrepreneur at age 22, was broke again at age 32 (with substantial business debt), and yet managed to be essentially retired and debt-free (including owning the home & vehicles free & clear) by age 42, and all while really only making a relatively modest salary. (And it's not like I entirely avoided women in those years either, I not only dated, but had a couple of multi-year LTR's in there -- I just never became "entangled" with women, didn't give them access to my wallet, didn't support them, or splurge on them or even generally spend much of any money on them at all... despite what PUA/RP sometimes seem to promote, that's completely unnecessary {unless I suppose you're really trying to get you another "notch" of that so called "high SMV" sloppy-bar-slut pussy... 'cause that shit'll burn through a paycheck in a single night}.)

oldredder · 2015-07-06T05:38:31+00:00

I'd say going your own way is actually the real red pill, not the step before it.

Confusion, anger, deception, any number of early stages can set it up

Morranaii · 2015-07-05T19:01:16+00:00

agreed

pirate6728 · 2015-07-05T22:36:02+00:00

I could make some woman very happy.

The problem is, I would give her power to destroy me with one phone call in the process of making her happy.

Given the nature of women today--- that's something to think long and hard about.

The more I read and hear, and the more I remember my own experiences, the more I think being alone isn't such a bad deal.

I guess I won't be making some dame happy tonight....

Title	Perception vs Reality
Author	drkstrs
Upvotes	20
Comments	12
Date	July 5, 2015 6:16 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MGTOW
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MGTOW/comments/3c7rsm/perception_vs_reality/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MGTOW/perception-vs-reality.626018 https://theredarchive.com/post/626018

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