Suicide & Toxicity

melniav0 · 2016-05-11T03:22:19+00:00

You need to chill. Just accept that there won't be a magic moment when all you wishes come true and you meet a girl. You won't. Life isn't fair. Children die from horrible diseases, people in their prime become crippled s, and some men are never going to have love, ever. 23 is just the beginning. You got a lot of years to bite your teeth in mental agony... unless you go with a flow and enjoy what you can have.

Underballbuttered · 2016-05-11T02:29:29+00:00

Please seek out a better therapist. The one you have, does not seem to be helping you.

Please don't go full Elliot Rodger.

Im_Justin_Cider · 2016-05-11T16:37:10+00:00

I swear I'm 100% against violence. Non-aggression principle and all that. But the more I learn about the world, the more I start to see how much of a spell we are all under, and the more I begin to understand why we even got to a place where women were called witches...

I feel like censorship is not the way forward, so I would never argue that AWALTs have to be denied or forbidden in anyway, but there has to be a cure. Every problem has a solution.

For now though, yes, I entirely recommend you get yourself a little puppy. And you treat that little pup like royalty.

Wish I had more MGTOW friends in real life.

Brokemgtow · 2016-05-11T05:32:10+00:00

Sorry dude....

Life is hard I mean, you have lots to live for. You're actually in a better situation than I am, and to be honest I would trade in all my sexual flings and relationships for your life.

Yea I wasn't really rejected by women, I've had more 3sums than I can count, but that's the thing, they don't add anything to your life, even when you fuck their brains out, or share life experiences, everything is a shit test to push your manhood to new heights.

BUT IF YOU MUST HAVE A WOMAN.

Go down to my home country Dominican republic, lots of hot bitches... And young ones too .... Stay over there and live with them, they won't leave you, as long as u keep providing. theyll cook for you, rub your feet, and give you all the sex you want. Maximize your chances and use hypergamy against them by staying over there.

You can complain all you want is fine it doesn't bother me. You have a great life do whatever the fuck you want, I won't Blame you or shame you for wanting deep companionship.

BUT

You're obviously not mgtow.

thrownaway_MGTOW · 2016-05-12T17:58:28+00:00

Sounds to me like what you are struggling with is a form of near-complete "disillusionment" and the loss of a sense of "purpose in life".

That's not an uncommon affliction -- one could even call it the "curse" of many intelligent individuals (especially men of a relatively HIGH intellectual degree especially when combined with what I suppose could be called a philosophical "bent" or tendency to critically analyze things, and thus life) -- probably more than most other men, those of us who turn our mental talents towards comprehending both females AND "society"; among whom a large fraction then end up as essentially "confirmed bachelors" and/or "MGTOW" (because, at least in our present civilization, that's more or less the inevitable conclusion of that kind of analysis -- sometimes these days called "red pill" -- because to do otherwise: to marry and become "locked into" the system, essentially requires {IMHO} a shutting down/off of that kind of analysis... or at least "shunting" it away from critical appraisal of the normal "marriage" situation.)

The thing about "disillusionment" -- the ENDING of belief in "illusions" -- is that it has both positive AND negative connotations:

After all, to go through life following an "illusory" path... is fraught with problems -- it is by definition to live in "denial" of at least certain aspects of objective reality, and to live in a foggy "dreamland" so to speak -- and thus is not necessarily very wise.

On the other hand, there is an argument to be made that "ignorance IS [or can be] BLISS" -- and indeed since ANY "purpose" we craft, or buy into, or believe in for our life, is also by definition, an inherently "abstract" thing (a "construct" of our mind) -- well to "have a purpose in life" is of necessity to believe in something that is intangible; to inhabit what is NOT fundamentally an "objective reality" but rather a "subjective fantasy."

There is no getting around that; "purpose" simply IS intangible, illusory, and "dream like".

That said... humans, and especially MALE humans, do have inherent, in-built or "programmatic" things that can arguably be posited as simply a "given" (and whether you posit it as the result of a "creator" or something that has been genetically/epigenetically "coded" into us via evolution -- really doesn't matter, since it results in the same conclusion). What is it that men DO?

Well... that's more or less the crux of the matter. Men DO things -- that is to say the inherent/inbuilt "purpose" of men is to ACT, to take action, to do things -- to build, to create, to produce; to experience then some "joy" in the ACT of building, creating, producing... generally something that will outlast ourselves. Call it the tendency or desire to "make our mark on the world", or to "leve a legacy" or whatever. The character & nature of MAN (a human MALE) then is to participate in some form, at some level or another (be it planning, coordinating, or actually performing the manual & actual aspects of "constructing", maintaining, refining, improving... of "building")... building what? Well building THINGS; structures, machines, systems, etc.

And while I know it is "circular reasoning" nevertheless I don't think it is unreasonable to say that the definition of a man is that he is a creature that "builds things" -- and that any man who DOESN'T or ISN'T involved (in some manner/some capacity/come form) with building/making things is really not a "man" at all.

To quote the lead character from the film "Kingdom of Heaven", "What man is a man who does not make the world better." -- or at least strive to do that in regards to his own little corner of the world.

From that same movie, that same character, when it is noted how HARD he is laboring to improve his little "dry, dusty estate":

Sybilla: You've been given a patch of dirt, and it seems... you will build a new Jerusalem here.

Balian: It is my land. Who would I be if I did not try to make it better?

And while it may seem cliche to resort to (yet another) movie film, there is an exchange within the (2004 remake) of the film "Flight of the Phoenix" that I think is both deep, profound, and very apropos to the "purpose" of men; it is also far more succinct and to the point than an entire book of philosophy will ever be.

^{^(Note:} ^{^Full} ^{^{understanding}} ^{^of} ^{^this} ^{^exchange} ^{^really} ^{^requires} ^{^watching} ^{^the} ^{^film} ^{^to} ^{^know} ^{^the} ^{^context;} ^{^but} ^ⁱⁿ ^{^summary} ^{^suffice} ^{^it} ^{^to} ^{^say} ^{^that} ^{^a} ^{^plane} ^{^has} ^{^crashed} ^ⁱⁿ ^{^the} ^{^deep} ^{^desert,} ^{^the} ^{^radio} ^{^is} ^{^damaged} ^{^beyond} ^{^repair,} ^{^and} ^{^they} ^{^were} ^{^blown} ^{^so} ^{^far} ^{^off} ^{^the} ^{^planned} ^{^route} ^{^that} ^{^there} ^{^is} ^{^virtually} ^{^ZERO} ^{^hope} ^{^of} ^{^rescue} ^{^--} ^{^the} ^{^only} ^{^chance} ^{^of} ^{^survival} ^{^seems} ^{^to} ^{^be} ^{^to} ^{^construct} ^{^a} ^{^"new"} ^{^plane} ^{^from} ^{^the} ^{^residual} ^{^wreckage} ^{^of} ^{^the} ^{^old} ^{^one} ^{^--} ^{^hence} ^{^the} ^{^title;} ^{^but} ^{^the} ^{^pilot} ^{^{Frank} ^{^Towns}} ^{^refuses} ^{^to} ^{^endorse} ^{^the} ^{^"crazed"} ^{^scheme,} ^{^one} ^{^result} ^{^of} ^{^which} ^{^is} ^{^that} ^{^one} ^{^of} ^{^the} ^{^passengers} ^{^{James} ^{^Liddle}} ^{^decides} ^{^he} ^{^would} ^{^rather} ^{^die} ^{^trying} ^{^to} ^{^walk} ^{^out} ^{^of} ^{^the} ^{^desert,} ^{^than} ^{^to} ^{^sit} ^{^idle} ^{^and} ^{^die} ^{^while} ^{^attempting} ^{^nothing.)}

Frank Towns: Why give people false hope?

James Liddle: Come on man. Most people spend their whole lives hanging on to hopes and dreams that are never going to come true but they hold on to them. Why are you going to give up on them now when you need them most?

Enough background, here is the exchange:

Frank Towns: You are assuming I'm one of those people who has hopes and dreams.

James Liddle: I find it hard to believe that a man who learns to fly never had a dream.

Frank Towns: Look, how can I let those people build that plane when I don't believe it will work? And, every day they waste trying to build it brings them one day closer to dying.

James Liddle: I think a man only needs one thing in life. He just needs someone to love. [...] If you can't give him that, then give him something to hope for. [...] And if you can't give him that, just give him something to do.

[James (Liddle) tosses the water bottle back to Frank and walks away]

Frank Towns: James, you'll never make it.

James Liddle: Then I'll die trying. There are people counting on me.

Frank Towns: Okay, Okay, Okay. Okay. We'll build it. Just come back with me.

The key statement is there in the middle:

I think a man only needs one thing in life. He just needs someone to love. [...] If you can't give him that, then give him something to hope for. [...] And if you can't give him that, just give him something to do.

There is the succinct definition of "purpose" in a man's life: to have SOMEONE TO LOVE.

Bar that... to have SOMETHING TO HOPE FOR.

Bar even that... to have SOMETHING TO DO.

Women, you see -- human females -- are also inherently "builders" and "creators"... but they do so literally "inside" their bodies: they have a womb that can "create" yet another human.

Men -- human males -- do NOT have a womb. And to make a crude point, just like our genitals, our "reproductive organs" are on the OUTSIDE of our bodies; so too must our acts of building & creating be... OUTSIDE of our bodies.

^{^And} ^{^NOTHING} ^{^will} ^{^change} ^{^that;} ^{^it} ^{^is} ^{^simply} ^{^a} ^{^FACT,} ^{^a} ^{^reality.} ^{^No} ^{^"sex} ^{^change"} ^{^operation} ^{^will} ^{^give} ^{^a} ^{^man} ^{^ovaries} ^{^that} ^{^will} ^{^produce} ^{^"eggs"} ^{^nor} ^{^a} ^{^uterous,} ^{^a} ^{^"womb"} ^{^capable} ^{^of} ^{^creating} ^{^new} ^{^life,} ^{^new} ^{^humans} ^{^--} ^{^ergo} ^{^no} ^{^"MTF"} ^{^transition} ^{^is} ^{^anything} ^{^more} ^{^than} ^{^an} ^{^artifice,} ^{^a} ^{^false} ^{^{misrepresentation}} ^{^of} ^{^realty,} ^{^a} ^{^FAKE...} ^{^not} ^{^actually} ^{^a} ^{^"woman"} ^{^but} ^{^a} ^{^man} ^{^who's} ^{^penis} ^{^has} ^{^been} ^{^surgically} ^{^"reversed".}

So, IMO therein -- in the inherent REAL differences between the sexes/genders -- lies the answer you are seeking to your "purpose."

What is it YOU are going to be about "building"? What is it you are going to "DO"?

Because you must -- at the very least -- have "something to do."

Exactly WHAT, WHERE, and the various "WHY(S)" around whatever it is you set about "doing", what you set your mind & body & soul to "building" or "creating"...

Well, that is entirely up to you; it is your choice, your freedom, and your burden; no one else can really make the choice for you; one way or another (either directly, or indirectly, actively or passively) you WILL be making, or accepting some choice.

To NOT do so... is to not really be "a man" at all.

And yes, in the end -- the long, long run -- it is all a "vanity"... because nothing anyone creates (not you, not me, not Ozymandias) will actually endure "forever".

But regarding that, I'll leave you with yet another quote from "Kingdom of Heaven":

"If it lives only for a while, Tiberias, it still has lived."

So to with ALL of the works of men: they may exist only for a while, but still they will have existed.

There is nothing better for a man, than that he should eat and drink, and that he should make his soul enjoy good in his labour. This also I saw, that it was from the hand of God. -- Ecclesiastes 2:24

thrownaway_MGTOW · 2016-05-11T02:24:23+00:00

At half of your post I was actually thinking about suggest therapy. There is a lot of content posted here, so it would be hard to me, a dumb fuck, to address it all. Let's hope /u/thrownaway_MGTOW has any wisdom to share.

You mention your therapy going south and it actually does not surprise me. I've been on therapy for long years it was one of the best things I ever did. Still, I know I got a very unlikely sequence of lucky hits. A large portion of therapists are simply full of shit, and it amazes me how these people are helping people at fragile moments of their lives.

Overall, although you might be feeling like shit, your situation does not seem that bad at all. Not that you should be obliged to be happy, but I do see that "the knife is in one hand and the butter is in other". All this might suck for a while, and although I can't guarantee you will be happy at the long term, odds are you will be. A lot of people in this sub went through what is happening to you and would testify to that.

Underballbuttered · 2016-05-11T10:31:23+00:00

As someone who went from approaching a 5 to a 9 or so I was actually at my most depressed at my best looking. Its not the superficial shit that matters ultimately. Its good to have a solid support group around you and to seriously overturn every rock on this planet to figure out what intrigues and excites you and go for that. Ideas especially since you have decent money: paintball, airsoft, archery, target shooting, go karting, skating, surfing, trekking, videogames, snorkeling, swimming, motorcycling, biking, reading, paragliding, etc.

kainmalice · 2016-05-11T13:06:26+00:00

Life is an experience. We are thrust here onto this planet, without rhyme of reason, live out our days, and eventually die. I forget which philosopher said it, but the question of suicide is the only real moral question we have in life. You have to get out of this whole good/evil mentality. There is no good and evil. Humans are just a bunch of animals with higher cognitive abilities, and feel we have been done injustices. If you take a look at nature, it is way worse of a life to live than the one we survive through.

The parable of Sisyphus is of a man rolling a boulder up a mountain for all eternity, and for a lot of people, that is what life is like. A gueling task that will never be finished until we die. You just have to imagine that while Sisyphus is pushing that Boulder uphill, he is smiling and enjoying himself. If there is a god (and I don't think there is) then he dropped us on this planet to suffer, and he doesn't give a fuck about us. If that is the case, smiling in the face of your torturer would be the best feeling in the world.

arcesious · 2016-05-11T17:36:27+00:00

Five years ago, well before finding MGTOW and TRP ideas myself, I participated in a sort of 'hugbox' community myself. Had a circle of online friends that I did everything with, couldn't relate to offline friends as well as I could them. Took me two years to grow out of it, though at the end that process was sped up when some of those old connections became toxic. There is nothing wrong with seeking out support, and anger is a natural reaction that a lot of us have been through figuring this stuff out. But you have to empower yourself, no one else can do it for you. My best advice is to fortify your mind with good and strong ideas, they will help you master the emotions that are still giving you much struggle.

Some suggestions of people worth looking into to read about their ideas: Socrates, Aristotle, Marcus Aurelius, Antisthenes, Sun Tzu, Bertrand Russell, Immanuel Kant, Nietszche, Voltaire, Einstein, Descartes, George Orwell, Aldous Huxley, Isaac Asimov, Carl Sagan, Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins, Stephen Fry, and Jonathan Haidt. An A-list of mine, if you will, but many other intelligent people worth investigating for their ideas could easily be added to that list. I hope those recommendations prove beneficial to you.

Underballbuttered · 2016-05-11T10:24:43+00:00

I would definitely suggest getting friends man. Invaluable. Go and have experiences and enjoy some pussy every now and again. Just because most women suck, that shouldn't have to effect you. If you aren't trying to get these women you don't even want then you will stop feeling anger towards them at least in a personal way. Maaaany dudes go through an anger phase including me. The best solution is to find what makes our happy in this life.

Isaiah4verse1 · 2016-05-11T02:07:50+00:00

No wonder the world is fucked and will continue to get fucked when we have a generation of weak ass millennials like the OP.

The day of the strong and silent/rugged individual/trailblazer is dead.

MGTOW is not a hug box.

Title	Suicide & Toxicity
Author	sfdswwa
Upvotes	14
Comments	27
Date	May 11, 2016 1:54 AM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MGTOW
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MGTOW/comments/4isorw/suicide_toxicity/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MGTOW/suicide-toxicity.634988 https://theredarchive.com/post/634988

Comments

Sounds to me like what you are struggling with is a form of near-complete "disillusionment" and the loss of a sense of "purpose in life".

I think a man only needs one thing in life. He just needs someone to love. [...] If you can't give him that, then give him something to hope for. [...] And if you can't give him that, just give him something to do.

So, IMO therein -- in the inherent REAL differences between the sexes/genders -- lies the answer you are seeking to your "purpose."

To NOT do so... is to not really be "a man" at all.

"If it lives only for a while, Tiberias, it still has lived."