So I have been arguing with a hardcore, religious, Christian tradcon friend for a while now, trying to tell him AWALT. I guess I am just a masochist.
Now the reason why we are arguing is because he asserts that there is a spiritual component in male-female relationships. He states that marriage is sacred and blessed, and that there are elements of spiritual love and companionship. He believes that marriage is beneficial to Dad, Mom and kids. It is a great thing because you get companionship, kids and love. Love here does not necessarily mean sex.
I assert that women are designed or evolved (whatever floats your boat) to sap the resources from men. Children take from women, women take from men and men produce. Marriage is to produce kids and raise them with a father in order that they grow up well-adjusted. There is no other reason for it. Cohabitation is the same thing as a marriage without kids.
The crux of our disagreement is about the importance of the husband-wife relationship. He thinks it's spiritual and transcending. I say that it is an exchange of resources and protection for sex and kids. We disagree on my position that women offer nothing UNIQUE to men except sex and kids. He thinks that women can offer something in a relationship aside from sex and kids. He believes in the oft-mentioned "relationship," of the tradcon bluepills.
Assuming that I'm correct, why do so many intelligent young men believe in the false narrative of the "relationship"? Male friendships are infinitely better, as the only difference between friendships and these "relationships" is the availability of sex. The extreme majority of women can't joke, don't like male hobbies, don't take risks, are vain, unintelligent and are only interested in topics related to mate-attraction.
I hear this claptrap all the time at the nearby Christian college. So many guys talk about managing their "relationship," elaborating on the dynamics of give-and-take and Christly sacrifice. These men cannot see that they share natural and fun friendships with other men without needing to compromise, cajole, satisfy and placate the other party.
Why don't men see relationships with women for what they are? It is their resources and attention for her SEX.
TLDR:
Male friendships don't require men to think so fucking hard to keep them going. They are also fun. Whereas male tradcon relationships with females require them to spend 90% of their mental horsepower trying to keep her happy, yet men think the latter is more special than the former while denying that it is for SEX.
[+][deleted] [recovered] (7 children) | Copy Link
Being "intelligent" means very little. Intelligent people are nearly as susceptible to cultural conditioning and indoctrination as are the unintelligent. We live in a society which, out of a need to perpetuate itself, has a vested interest in promoting traditional family values, or failing that, some approximation thereof that still facilitates organized reproduction. In keeping with its self-interest, the society at large necessarily invests itself heavily in indoctrinating people into the requisite belief system. When you're conditioned from even the youngest age to marry and reproduce, and voices critical of this orthodoxy are both infrequent and often marginalized through social criticism, most people won't overcome circumstance and realize that conformity will doom them to misery. And insofar as marriage and reproduction are the goal, then in the modern era where arranged marriages are viewed as the domain of backwards societies, then there must necessarily be an emphasis on dating and relationships, and it needs to be framed in terms that make it seem appealing rather than detrimental so that there's male buy-in.
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You are arguing with someone whose entire worldview revolves around the community he's a part of. One possible way to reach him is to point out that the bible actually values celibacy as a higher calling than marriage. The spiritual attainment is said to be higher and the life of Jesus seems to bear this out. You are enjoined to marry if otherwise you would not be able to stay on path and "burn with passion". In that case it advises men to marry, which when society was different, was a kind of practical societal glue that it is not now. The so called spiritual attainment of marriage is something exceedingly rare in real life anyway. It is more like Stockholm Syndrome. In any case, I'd let it go once you've made your case.
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I've found that every single time this part of Corinthians is brought up, the Christians in the room get super uncomfortable. On the one hand, they are committed to the idea of following Jesus, but they won't accept that marriage can't help you in every single facet of life.
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