The Redpill's Delusional Thinking

CodeLimosis · 2017-01-15T11:29:32+00:00

Yeah, I would like to see if that "alpha" and "holding frame" nonsense works if you're a 5'0, 3/10 with no resources. Being "alpha" and "holding frame" can only do so much in the face of female hypergamy.

General_Fear · 2017-01-15T13:44:09+00:00

A main idea of TRP is to "maintain frame". In order words, put up an act. Be something you are not. Be the man that women want to sleep with by projecting cocky confidence. Fine. You can do that for a date. But to put up an act day in day out 24/7. Impossible. Eventually, frame drops.

These Rep Pill guys who marry are the prime candidate for divorce because the women who marry them married a lie.

us3rname13 · 2017-01-15T11:46:16+00:00

That's not their main delusion. Their delusion is that it's at all alpha to invest so much in women. The Red Pill discourages investing wholly in one woman, but then invests a little in all women as a solution. Unsurprisingly, a lot of the guys on there cannot overcome this issue and become, at best, betas who are very good at acting like alphas.

The__Tren__Train · 2017-01-15T13:45:11+00:00

If Brad Pitt, Johnny Depp, George Clooney, Patrick Swayze, etc. can't keep up the alpha bit to keep their women faithful forever, what makes anyone else think they can, too? Every bro in Red Pill who says they have a great marriage is young and the marriage hasn't been that long.

Hiromant · 2017-01-15T11:26:09+00:00

Agreed. There's good information on there but many TRPers come across as desperate tryhards, posturing and trying to prove their alphaness. It may work on some sluts with daddy issues but will repel quality people.

Strong men aren't pushy assholes. They know their worth, don't have to prove it, and can afford to be genuine.

Paladin2903 · 2017-01-15T11:59:40+00:00

Pretty much. A lot of the guys are just young and naive. If you're just trying to get laid, or a girl just wants you for sex, then looks are the ONLY thing that matter, and for their stage in life (17-23), this may be true.

I think this is why a lot of the younger and more naive guys in there buy into the whole, "All I need to do is lift, become more alpha, and I'll never have another problem with women again." WRONG!!! Society is setup for you to fail, man.

When women are younger, they are more aligned with how we view women, in the courting aspect -- looks, personality, humor, chemistry, etc.

However, as these girls get out of college, and into the real world, most of them realize they hate working, don't want to, were sold a false bill of goods by feminists, and want to raise a stay-at-home family.

As a result, the things that start to move to the forefront of a woman's importance list are: wealth, resources, credit score, available assets, life insurance policies, status, etc., etc.

They become business-like in what they look for in men. The closer they get to the wall, the more intense it gets.

Rest assured, many of the guys in that forum still want to get married, regardless of what they say. They're doing the whole "alpha" thing to attract a potential wife.

So, if you're a good-looking jacked guy who just got laid off or is down on his luck in life -- with no business pluses to offer -- you aren't going to get much, and they're going to leave you for the businessman who has a ton of money, but that they aren't really all that attracted to, in terms of looks, personality, etc.

I appreciate much of TRP. However, as soon as they start talking about "alpha" this and "alpha" that, I tune out.

Sol_Install · 2017-01-15T13:24:12+00:00

You can't win by being Alpha, holding frame, or whatever. The reason why women do what they do and why no one man can win is simple. They are a protected class in society. They are allowed to commit evil with basically no or very little punishment. They are also allowed to commit any act of evil as long as it's towards a man. Because humanity is hellbent on breeding like jack rabbits, they will cater to women. Women also raise males to respect women but to never expect respect in return.

Reproduction limitations play into this. As we see time and time again, we as men mean nothing. Not to our people, our country, and obviously not "our" women. Since someone can take your place and if they can't get someone, the government will steal your earned money and toss it towards them, men mean even less now.

Their is an obvious advantage and women know they have and they enjoy it and do not want to give it up. Yes, even if it means men suffer and die. As TheRedPill proves time and time again, men treat sex like we treat oxygen. They NEED it to survive, they are hell bent on getting it. Without it, their life is void of meaning.

These factors are what makes being Alpha pointless. You have basically no advantage. The BEST you can do as a man, is never date/cohabitate/reproduce/marry as a line of defense to deny women the majority benefit of your labor. That's it. They'll still get your tax benefits.

justareflektorr · 2017-01-15T11:40:56+00:00

"alpha" is a construct of looks, looks is all that matters, if you`re good looking you get confidence early in life, no one judges you, halo effect, cant do no wrong, abundance mentality since chicks throw themselves at you etc.

geocitiesuser · 2017-01-15T15:09:07+00:00

TRP is a bunch of "okay" looking guys who grew up shy. Learned to talk to women, and think it's because of some sort of holding frame, or being alpha, or whatever other fantasy they told themselves.

Fictitiousfallacy · 2017-01-15T14:02:55+00:00

Guys on TRP sub will almost always end up in 3-4 categories; 1. Getting divorce raped and becoming MGTOW 2. Getting divorce raped over and over again. 3. Realizing after a few non committal relationships that it isn't worth it and become MGTOW. 4. Getting married to a complete bitch who ruins their life, but stays with them out of fear of divorce.

I think a lot of these guys eventually will come to see MGTOW as the best solution to female nature because as most of you noted, these are pretty young guys we're talking about, some even in high school. They're just looking for sex as I bet a good chunk of us were at that age too. Once they come to realize what sex truly is, I think they will realize it isn't worth it.

I've posted in /asktrp a few times and it's always incredible to me how often guys in there want to just flat out argue and find issue with anything I say, some of them are truly over aggressive. There is nothing wrong with being alpha but some of these men seem to think alphaness and "maintaining frame" are all that matters. Don't get me wrong, it's good to be strong and to constantly improve yourself, but they seem to think the only way to do this is to be ALPHA AF BRO. They'll learn soon enough.

I personally think that you can't really categorize us. I mean sure, I'm sure a lot of MGTOW appear to be pretty alpha, we lift, we're fit, we're the top dog in some aspects of our life, but I don't believe that we do this for the same reasons that guys over in TRP do it. We are the Zetas if anything. You can't put us into a box. We don't fit into any of society's boxes, this is why we get shamed; because people don't know what we are. People love to categorize others, its human nature to do so, but when people encounter a hardworking guy who takes care of himself and his body, doesn't take shit from anyone, and doesn't place any value in female validation, unless he's gay, it baffles people.

Keep going your own way, men.

SamCasey98 · 2017-01-15T14:21:13+00:00

The premise is wrong. Women define who is an alpha within context. A man can be an alpha one day and a beta the next. There is no way for a man to be "more alpha".

scotheman · 2017-01-15T16:15:01+00:00

In my experience doing men's work as a therapist and as someone that helps run a men's group, red pill is basically a newer form of pickup that is slightly evolved. I've become slightly allergic to guys who come and try to be an alpha; it gets a little old frankly. They are pre-occupied with sizes up all the other guys, trying to figure out who the alphas are. They come into a men's support group as though they need to figure out who their competition is. They still think they need to compete for women. But what happens when she figures out that the alpha thing is an act and she realizes he's just another chump trying out different tactics to get their approval? I think the red pill thing will wind down just like the mystery method before it.

chwed2 · 2017-01-15T14:00:07+00:00

A lot of people who don't critically read the sidebar materials/suggested books at TRP and only skim the front page every now and then are quite prone to misconceptions about what exactly TRP is. The whole point of being alpha is not to slay pussy (that's just a bonus), it's to be a man who is in complete control of their life, strives toward self improvement and is not phased by things out of their control (i.e. female behavior). While I agree that there are likely many varieties of men on TRP, most would tell you the goal is not to make your women do what you want, it's to be the best man that you can be. As a benefit of being exactly the kind of man females are attracted to, one begins to attract female attention.

Zombocom1911 · 2017-01-15T19:17:58+00:00

There is always a bigger alpha. Richer, more famous, more successful, better body, bigger dick. You don't own her, you are just renting her until she has found a better option and already fucked him. You will find out the hard way, then.

Aaron-MGTOW · 2017-01-15T18:41:01+00:00

There's nothing wrong with wanting to be more confident, fit, wealthy, etc etc as TRP is always preaching. The problem I see over there is the REASONS why they do it...for pussy.

They become something else for someone else. If women were all of a sudden attracted to something else, they'd scramble to become that.

The whole PUA world boils down to a man seeking validation from a woman. I like a lot of the PUA/red pill stuff when I think it's helps me be better...for ME.

Living your life to appear to be something that you naturally aren't is pathetic and frankly stressful and unhealthy.

My worth is not validated by some woman who's entire appearance is a lie. Heels-taller Makeup-no blemishes Tanning-nice skin tone Push-up bras-nice tits Etc etc

drqxx · 2017-01-15T14:52:18+00:00

As a red pill advocate you are 100% Correct!

Smitty6 · 2017-01-15T16:12:42+00:00

The problem is the intent behind what they do. Being the best man you can be for you is the right approach and intent. If you are doing it for the validation of a women then this is where the problem lies.

That is where the term "alpha" is very subjective. Because not one women is going to believe you to be alpha for life. She will tear you down until you are beta in her eyes. Because there is something brighter and more beautiful to her beyond you after she has had enough time with you.

It's not about being "alpha", it's about being the best man you can be because that is the best thing that you can do for yourself. Mgtow understands that when you let a women into the picture that you could potentially be jeopardizing all of it because you were horny.

If anything the RP should be teaching men is to be very weary of women and to have all the focus be on you and your own well being.

cheesymold · 2017-01-15T17:42:38+00:00

Honestly got laid more with pua ideology than red pill ideology.

andreas-mgtow · 2017-01-15T18:34:55+00:00

The true RP is Zen like in its understanding of the world.

The "Alpha" that is defined by VaginaThink is not the true Alpha.

GLO or whatever other AlphaClownBrah are not more Alpha than Alexander The Great or Newton or Tesla or that brother who lost a limb fighting in Iraq.

MGTOW understands Alpha in true masculine terms such as personal freedom, courage, leadership, knowledge, ability, not as a measure of female approval and PussyFeelz.

Hunterogz · 2017-01-15T19:24:20+00:00

The reality is that "alpha" and TRP men have a certain illusion of control. The same way betas do but in reverse. Betas believed being nice would make her do what they want; TRP alphas think being "alpha" will make her do what they want. Different side of the same coin.

This is gold. Great points all around but this especially stuck out.

Amnesia2508 · 2017-01-15T20:28:49+00:00

That is the problem of relying on so-called Alpha behaviour. You can't out-Alpha the government and her armies of Beta men with guns and gavels.

rahl_r · 2017-01-15T16:17:15+00:00

About their illusion of control: here goes a clip from the movie Swingers (a rather cringeworthy one).

These TRP people, they talk about establishing "their reality" with others. Reality? That is a poor choice of a term. We all have perceptions of reality; misperceptions can, and do happen; within social contexts, theory of mind helps us estimate what others are going through (however, there is no way to be 100% sure of what others are going through). When someone's incorrect perception meets with the naked truth of the physical world, denying that truth is something that mental patients do.

I dunno... messing with realities? I'd rather not. However, that underlying message (the one of communicating clearly with others and keeping one's own interest a priority) is not so bad. It is just buried under that slightly deluded mysticism.

GC0W30 · 2017-01-15T15:58:46+00:00

The idea that if you become x (alpha) then y (female) has to react in such a way and if it doesnt then you were never truly x. The solution? Just become more x, obviously.

I never got that reading TRP.

Some women are crazy. Some women are promiscuous and can't monogamy.

If you avoid those women, there is a CHANCE that TRP theory and action. Nothing else.

I don't think you're reading for comprehension based on the contents of your post.

The__Tren__Train · 2017-01-15T22:08:44+00:00

lmao... mgtow completely misrepresenting TRP, once again.

UtopianKing · 2017-01-16T09:31:58+00:00

The only solution is to focus one's own life, never committing, never caring if women whore around.

mofono · 2017-01-16T09:35:13+00:00

Most TRP alphas end up getting married. Most alphas become that way because they want to appease women and hence they are not alpha.

chwed2 · 2017-01-16T09:45:57+00:00

Yes. There is a difference between understanding TRP and simply parroting it.

I feel that TRP independent of PUA is important to recognising how people work. I'd even go far enough to say that its unlikely that anybody would legitimately understand how reality really works without acknowledging atleast the basic aspects of TRP.

But simply reading it and following it without any understanding is like reading a discredible history book.

srtor · 2017-01-17T02:15:57+00:00

Actually TRP and MGTOW represents two different philosophy in current social interactions.

TRP - wants to 'play the game' but trying to make it on 'his term'.

MGTOW - does not want to play the game. 'The game' is rigged, so you can only lose.

Men need to know, what is they are after. I personally would say, TRP is OK, if you are ready to spend time, resource, effort to get women.

MGTOW is the way, when you don't want to do that. Does not mean it is sex less. It is more like having 'drama free' sex, either bought or one night stand.

Title	The Redpill's Delusional Thinking
Author	throwawaymaximus1233
Upvotes	86
Comments	77
Date	January 15, 2017 10:48 AM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MGTOW
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MGTOW/comments/5o3dfj/the_redpills_delusional_thinking/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MGTOW/the-redpills-delusional-thinking.612162 https://theredarchive.com/post/612162

Comments

As a red pill advocate you are 100% Correct!