There has been recent interest in some of the older MRM related stuff, and what was said or who said it. The cool thing about the internet, and thus the modern mens movement, is you can literally find every word ever said for much of the timespan in question (even as a civilian).

So here in it's full splendour, is a rant from a guy named Gonzo, who dropped out of view in 2010 but was once a staple among us.

It's from September of 2005, and is part of a debate between him and a Feminist who went by 'lkannig' at the time, then blogged under 'Lisa Kansas' at PunkAssBlog.

Enjoy:

Lisa Kansas: "If a woman gets pregnant via consensual sex with a man, the man can choose to "give up" all paternal rights and responsibilities towards the child after birth. The woman has no input on this; it's the man's choice. If he does "give up" his fatherhood, he ceases to be the child's father for all legal purposes--one result of that being, he is in no way obligated to ever supply a penny of support for the child.

Any thoughts?"

It's called "Choice for men." and it is not new. And while very attractive as a legal remedy which would force more women to the table, it's in all introspection just as immoral.

You've fallen under -or are deliberately trying to perpetrate - the feminist canard that all men care about is money. And nothing could be further from the truth, the trouble is that you feminists - who have cheerleaded and championed this whole divorce and child support racket and industry - have put men in the position where it is the main way we are forced to contest for, in a legal sense, our tie with our children. When you make that the only arena to engage, it's disingenuous , at best, to criticize that "money" is where the debate should lie. And then too fucking many of you try to stir this up so you can run to your friends, and say "See? I knew it! It's only money to those heartless men!"

What we resent the fuck out of is being regarded as the lesser parent: For not taking part in the raising of the children, when we are working two jobs so you can stay home and take care of them, so you can be "fulfilled as a mother." We resent being regarded as unnecessary, disposable, and fungible with the next boyfriend.

We resent not being told how our kids are doing, of being denied visitation, of being denied school records until we "prove" we aren't under a restraining order. We resent being thought of as an afterthought and intruder in the lives of our very flesh and blood, and having this assumption so automatic that we can't get an attorney to even bring a contest of custody into court unless it's a slam dunk - and even then still losing one of three to one of four times on the average.

We resent that false accusations of abuse are such a common tactic that attorneys are saying they'd consider themselves guilty of malpractice if they didn't urge their clients to file them. We resent that we are accused of domestic violence sans proof, the claim of mere fear being enough, in star chambers and secret tribunals, where we are not notified of either the proceedings or the rubber-stamped results, but are still arrested for it anyway when we come home for work and try to get into our own house - all as a tactic to drives us from our homes and families, because we are disposable.

We resent being made into strangers to our children as a form of revenge.

We resent paying hundreds, and sometimes thousands of dollars in child support, of going to your house to pick up our children, of finding a new lexis in the driveway, but worn shoes, threadbare clothing, and snotty suggestions that we are their parent too, and ought to go out and buy some for them. That's what that fucking support money is for, god damn it. That's why we don't have any left over, are living paycheck to paycheck, and are driving a 15 year old Pontiac.

We resent being cuckolded and made a fool of, of finding out the children we thought were ours were ones we were tricked into caring for, and on a elationship for which a vast, ugly, and immovable stain is forever cast. We resent it when those children are moved in with the biological father, and whom they then call daddy, but for whom we still foot the bill. We resent it further that when this truth comes out, we are forbidden to be fathers to them, but still have to write the checks. And it's our fault. Never once is it considered that this harm done to these children is ever in any part due to lies first told by their mother, as she daddy-shopped for the fattest wallet.

We resent being told that these things are " so rare" - so "rare" indeed that they are talked about with their own slang terminology, and across countless tables at lunches and coffee breaks daily.

We resent it when our sons are seduced by older women with a thing for young meat, and wind up paying support, and losing out on college and a future -to a fucking criminal who if the genders were reversed would be in jail for statuatory rape.

We also resent the fuck out of this when we know many men in our daily lives who have been hit by at least one of these things, but some twit who lives a sheltered life dismisses them as ancedotal, or with a "Well, I have never herad or seen this.." Yeah. Right. Or it's invisible to you. Or you haven't looked. Or you haven't wanted to see.

We resent it terribly when statistically far more fathers as a percentage pay their assigned support than women do - but we have "Deadbeat Dad" as a term that is in common use.

We resent it when a supposedly equal woman in a divorce can quit a six figure job to "Be a Stay at home mom" and have our support jacked up to pick up the slack - where if we did that, as men, we'd probably be clapped in irons.

Fuck the whole choice thing - if we were allowed first option to adopt a child, even if it meant letting "mommy" off the hook for child support - If joint and shared custody became a rebuttable presumption - if the one who was an obstacle to the success of that, be they male or female was considered a less fit parent - if paternity fraud became treated as the crime and betrayal it is - if we were allowed our civil rights in false accusations, and the mere accusation wasn't held against us when refuted - if the move away parent became the one to surrender the presumption of joint custody - if denial of visitation was treated as seriously and as draconianly as missed child support, for the child abuse it is - if all this happened tomorrow, you could keep your precious abortion, and Stand Your Ground, Men's News Daily, and a host of other sites would have tumblewweds blowing through them and "For Rent" signs hung up come next week.

But know what - feminists are the ones opposing all this.

Who benefits - or more to the point, WHY do they benefit? How do they benefit.

There's the thing women should shut the fuck up on, unless it's to agree - until they have had their own flesh and blood ripped away from them because of their gnder, instead of AWARDED to them because of it - until they have lived that hell, of having that never healing wound and unfillable void opened in their very heart and soul - until then, stop the snotty "Wow, You guys are so bitter" and "You should get over it, and get therapy." Whatever. Bitterness is the only moral response. Any person who could get over something like that didn't love their children enough, and didn't deserve to have them. http://standyourground.com/forums/index.php?topic=6390.msg72304#msg72304

Now THAT is an MRA.