And people say men’s rights are not ignored?

savetheworld786 · 2020-11-20T00:16:50+00:00

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[+]Ivegotthatboomboom -23 points-22 points-21 points 5 years ago* (23 children) | Copy Link

Men absolutely do NOT face oppression due to gender and gender alone. They never have. They struggle with economic oppression which is not specific to men, although probably more men are effected. Child custody courts are NOT sexist and studies show that. Those men fighting for years are not fighting bc of sexism. That isn't how child custody courts work. Does bias toward traditional gender roles exist? Yes, but that hurts the women too. Most couples want 50/50, they don't fight for full. Women are working full time and still doing the majority of housework and childcare within the marriage. It's called the 2nd shift and upon divorce this dynamic (which is exhausting for her) is continued due to status quo precedents. You want to have 50% custody? Be a 50% Dad in the marriage. Plus in every state its assumed 50% until more information is given.

90% of cases are settled out of court, which means the men chose for the Mom to have more custody. Bc they wanted her too. When a man actually goes for full custody, it's so rare that he is taken very seriously and wins 70% of the time. When it actually goes to court there are issues like domestic violence and abuse. Abused women are more often discriminated against in divorce court for not leaving earlier and more abusive men have access to their children than abusive women. And in a custody fight the parents are subjected to multiple home visits, drug tests, psychological evaluations, etc. so if a parent has been determined unfit and doesn't get custody, well they're unfit regardless of what some MRAs believe about their situation or want others to believe. Those men saying they don't have custody (even supervised visitation) for "no reason" but "sexism" are frankly lying. ALL abusers lie. All of them. My sister lost custody of her son due to abuse and she pays her ex child support who has full custody. Guess what she tells everyone? He turned their son against her, he lies to get back at her, he had better lawyers, etc. If she was a guy she'd claim sexism. The reality is you have not seen these men's court notes and you can't go by what they say. I'm sure some people slip through the cracks but generally if someone doesn't have custody as determined by a judge, they shouldn't. Also most judges and lawyers are male so the idea that men are being discriminated against is ridiculous. Back before women had voting rights and the right to have careers they were made to be housewives. And so upon divorce that continued. Well courts have changed since the 70s but men haven't. Women are working and doing all the "women's work" and men aren't stepping up. Maybe when they step up and be a Dad in the marriage and stop voluntarily giving her majority custody so they can be a Dad when they want things will change. Studies do not support the view that courts are sexist. Women do get majority custody more often. But you're ignoring the real reason why

[–]drolevO 10 points11 points12 points 5 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ivegotthatboomboom -4 points-3 points-2 points 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

No, I'm saying that 90% of custody cases NEVER GO TO COURT. They came up with the arrangement on their own. It only goes to court when couples can't agree and that usually means there are complications like abuse allegations. Studies include all custody agreements not only those that are fought in court. So Moms do have more custody but 90% of the time HE agreed to that. He wanted that. Within the 10% that go to court, if the Dad is going for full custody he wins 70% of the time.

SOME abusers slip through the cracks but it isn't an issue primarily men face. There are currently MORE abusive fathers that have access to their children than abusive mothers that do. However they slipped through the cracks is due to them having a lot of control over how people perceive them and being able to hide their true self. Which is harder than you think considering the many drug tests, home visits and psychological evals the couple faces. But it happens. There isn't enough proof they're abusive. That's a fact. It's not bc of discrimination against men.

Also bringing up very rare scenarios are not evidence that men are being discriminated against bc they're men. All the government cares about are the rights of the CHILD. Not the Dad, not the Mom either. Do I personally agree with your example? No it shouldn't of happened (but you'd have to link the story. Did he go through an agency? Sign paperwork? Was it a personal transaction where they couldnt prove he agreed to only be a donor? Then's not being discriminated due to his gender) but I can promise you it wasn't because he happened to have a penis. Its about the kid.

I am not giving opinions, I am giving you FACTUAL info. You're like talking to an anti-vaxxer

[–]drolevO 9 points10 points11 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Ivegotthatboomboom -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

That hasn't existed since the 70s. So why is that a talking point? And men were never sent off to war bc powerful men hated their own gender. It was never bc they were men. Every nation will need to fight at some point the sex viewed as competent and superior went. The draft did discriminate against poor men though, absolutely. But bc they were poor or criminal NOT bc they're men. Women were also effected by the war, victims of mass war-time rape and they held down society and raised the kids while the men were away- and then were removed when they came back. Conscription is a class issue not a gender issue (as in men don't go to war bc of sexism and sexism alone, they do to war bc society needs strong fighters. Women were excluded from war bc of sexism. They were seen as weak. stupid and not strong enough to fight. They literally lobbied congress to fight and were granted that right and were sent to battle in the 2nd world war. War is not fun for anyone but its discrimiation against men in poverty or men wanting to escape a criminal charge. There was obviously a point to war that had nothing to do with punishing men bc they're men. You guys don't understand the actual definition of sexism. Men (unlike women) were actually allowed to participate in society and not every role in society is fun. But the discrimination was against women being excluded DUE TO THEIR GENDER AND GENDER ALONE, and against POOR men, not men in general participating in jobs they don't enjoy. That is objectively a CLASS issue, not a gender issue.

Men have issues that primarily effect them and not women. Attention should be paid to these issues, they're important. But they are NOT due to sexism. There is no SYSTEMIC sexism against men. Men experience gendered issues and I support a movement that actually tries to help. But you guys are HURTING men by imaging your issues are due to feminism instead of economic issues. That's why no one pays attention to you and laughs. Because it's a movement that sets itself against women which are not the cause of your problems. Get rid of the anti-feminism (not agreeing with all feminist thought is fine. Neither do I. But those are not the views of every feminist. Feminism is simply the fight for women to have equal status as men and for the equality of BOTH men and women. Btw feminists HAVE fought for mens equality. They are the reason "forced to penetrate" is now included as criteria for rape. THEY lobbied for that. Not that it's their job, but they've done a lot more for men then MRAs have. You guys have made people dismissive of men's issues due to your hate and anti-women ideology.

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[–]Gamers_are_oppressed 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]Ivegotthatboomboom -8 points-7 points-6 points 5 years ago* (23 children) | Copy Link

lol Right? White Men have had default rights since the beginning. Their rights and theirs alone were written in the constitution. They have literally NEVER been denied civil rights due to gender and gender alone. Ever. Only women and minorities have been denied civil rights due to race and gender. Men face oppression due to economic inequality and rigid gender roles (that men created). Anything "feminine" like expressing emotion for example, is seen as bad, because of cultural misogyny. So this obviously effects men too, but it wasn't thought up to hurt them. It was made to keep women subjugated. The men here bizarrely blame women and feminism for their issues. Which is laughably absurd but here we are. They also do NO activism like opening DV shelters for men or providing any funding or services. They like to use these spaces to hate on women while pretending they're oppressed...just bc they're men lol (by who? other men? Why would men oppress other men bc they hate their own gender? Oppressed by women? What women in power??). It's so bewildering reading through their mindsets, they're completely brainwashed by propaganda and misinformation and have zero real world experience or any knowledge or sense of history. Half truths and true stats twisted to say things they don't. Its bizarre but like a car wreak, I find I cant look away. Reading their craziness is morbidly fascinating.

[–]Greg_W_Allan 12 points13 points14 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 5 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

Actually, a guy in Canada tried to open up a men's shelter, and feminists bashed it so much, it could never get funding.

As far as expressing emotion, when men do, feminist laugh and make fun of them. "male tears", "cry more", etc. Try being more consistent.

I have seen some men using IMD as a vehicle to discuss issues that affect men. Prostate cancer, Suicide, Mental health, etc.

The one main reason I don't take feminists seriously, is because you seem to be rather selective about when you want to be treated equally. You need to accept that if you want to be treated equally, it's not always going to be pleasant for you. Sign up for selective service to vote, equal prison sentencing for equal crimes, automatic 50/50 joint custody. If you are married, and you decide you don't want to live with your husband anymore, you split what you made in the marriage 50/50, and no alimony. When it comes to dating, start paying for half of the dates. If you truly want to be treated equally, you can't pick and choose when that will be.

[–]Ivegotthatboomboom -4 points-3 points-2 points 5 years ago* (20 children) | Copy Link

What are you even talking about? I work in a domestic violence shelter and we house men and their children in hotels (as do many others) which is honestly a better deal as women's shelters are SEVERELY underfunded. I'm talking about women and children sleeping on floors, shelters crawling with bedbugs, expired food, always too full, while women and children are flooding general shelters and hospitals waiting. Men sometimes need shelters but the need is not on the same level as women. Currently, women's shelters only accept women at risk of being killed and that means active threats and hospital reports not just being beaten. Every two hours a woman is killed by a male partner. It is very rare men are killed by a female partner and they are not financially abused and its rare she physically keeps him from leaving the home. I have no clue what happened with that shelter in Canada but I know that several organizations get upset because THEY arent being funded and they have women and children physically on the street waiting for a shitty shelter. We don't see men on the street with their children and they aren't dying. So the argument is the little funding available needs to go where there is a clear and urgent need. There needs to be increased funding for ALL shelters. Btw every single DV organization currently helps men. The problem is funding all around NOT discrimination agianst men. Men face bias when seeking help sure, but so do women. This isn't an issue of not caring about men, it's an issue of greatest need gets the little funding. Currently no man would even qualify for a shelter if they had the same criteria to get in as women's shelters. Women's shelters are FULL, they cant get help either. They need to fix the disgusting state of women's shelters first (bc these women are being hidden so they aren't killed) and then work on men's shelters. Simply bc of a greater need. If men began being mass murdered by their female partners and were physically on the street huddled with their children they'd have just as many shelters if not more. Women don't have (limited) shelters bc they're women, they have them bc there is an urgent and serious visible need that people STILL are not paying attention to.

Of course there are men's issues. But men's bodies have been studied in medicine since the beginning they are very well understood. They had to make a law that scientists also used women in studies bc ONLY men were studied. It's only recently we've started focusing on women's health and understanding female anatomy, (women's bodies are STILL poorly understood as they are vastly more complicated than men's and were not included in studies) that's why there is so much attention paid to it.

Conscription has been voluntary since the 70s and there are many women who fight. My sister was a soldier in the middle East so I'm not sure what your point is. Women are always the mass victims of war-time rape so it isn't like they aren't effected by war. Women literally lobbied congress for the right to go to war. And they held down all the jobs and child care during WW2 and then had to give the jobs back and go back to the home when the men returned. Current studies show women do largely get equal punishment for crimes, the thing is they don't commit as much crime and its less violent when they do. There IS assumed 50% custody until the couple decides otherwise. And in 90% of cases he GIVES her majority custody. It only goes to court in 10% of cases and that's bc abuse is involved. I don't have the time or patience to explain alimony to you. My ex brother in law who was a stay at home Dad gets alimony and child support. And he deserves it. Just like some stay at home Moms do bc of their unpaid labor in the home and the work experience they gave up to do it. With dating, women still have the reproductive burden and face safety issues men don't, but most women do carry 50% of the finances within the relationship. First dates are a different story, she's taken a risk being there that you aren't. Men and women have equal value and should have equal rights. That doesn't mean they are exactly the same.

Feminism is the belief in the equality of men and women. That's literally it. Feminist thought in academia is separate and not everyone agrees with everything they say, I don't. That doesn't mean I'm not a feminist. You don't understand what feminism IS. Women have/had lesser social, political and legal status than men. Hence the need for feminism. I think most MRAs and incels can't fathom this bc they think that means every man is better off than every woman which is obviously not true. I think they also sense that women mostly dominate the sexual realm (when they aren't raped which is very often) and men resent this, maybe bc they have trouble in that area and think that extends to the political and social realm. It doesn't. You guys all misidentify the source of your issues and it's not feminism lol. It's class inequality. I've also noticed most of you are teenagers and poorly educated especially about history and how statistics work. You're being radicalized by propaganda

[–]Jakeybaby125 6 points7 points8 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Really? As underfunded as mens are? I call bullshit. Mens needs are the same as women's. It's that they're not acknowledged as much, if at all. I smell huge confirmation bias on your part

Hm, is that so? So why does breast cancer receive more funding than prostate cancer despite prostate cancer being more widespread?

Yeah so just ignore all the men who are BRUTALLY SLAUGHTERED! Rape is abhorrent but murder is worse. They're less likely to be convicted of a crime and less likely to be sentenced. Ever considered that? No there isn't. Don't lie. The mother is always assumed primary caregiver unless the father spends thousands trying to get custody. You're talking about exceptions to the rule, not the norm. Huge confirmation bias. Also, bs on the safety issue. Men still have to worry. Also, reproductive rights, women have the right to abortion in many places. Men have none. You can steal a man's sperm and successfully sue him for child support, you can declare a man the father of your child and he has 30 days to prove he's not otherwise he's on the hook for child support even if he later proves he's not the child and you can rape an underage boy and successfully sue him for child support. Men are still taking a risk. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't there

Feminism isn't about equality. In order to be a movement for equality, you need to focus on the issues affecting both men and women. Feminism only focuses on the issues affecting women and ignores, if not aggravates, issues affecting men hence why it's not a movement for equality. Feminism isn't for men. Feminism doesn't care about men. Sorry but men and women are equal on both the social and political spectrums but women are incredibly privileged when it comes to legal issues. Just because you choose to ignore it doesn't mean it isn't there. Here's a tip: don't generalise an entire group of people based on the feminist propaganda you've read on FDS

[–]Ivegotthatboomboom -2 points-1 points0 points 5 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

All of those are straight lies. They are ALL underfunded. That's a fact. Why dont you call a domestic violence organization and discuss this? They will back up what I'm saying and you'll find they do help men lol, I work in one. Men's needs are not the same as womens and all the evidence says so. Where are you getting this info?? What men being slaughtered?? lol By other men you mean?? Women are not murdering men in DV situations. It's rare, while it's very common for men to murder their partners. Literally every two hours in the U.S a man kills his partner. Those shelters are to save her life not just help. It's not like that with men's shelters.

The mother is NOT assumed primary caregiver in any court system in the U.S. Men have reproductive options. They can use condoms. Take control of your own sperm and where it goes. Its not against men, its FOR THE CHILD. Over the mother and the father, they only care about the kids well being. Do I agree with that ruling in every situation? No, but it isn't sexism. Women who are raped and can't get an abortion have to financially support the child AND birth it, carry it and raise it. Men are just on the hook financially. And abortion is not available everywhere and women's rights including abortion is up for debate every election. Your rights are not going to disappear with a new election, they're default. Again, current studies show men and women get the same sentencing when its the same crime. But women rarely commit the same kinds of crime, women are not as violent.

No, feminists don't need to focus on men's issues. That isn't their responsibility. Women aren't equal to men hence a movement for their equality. It also works to dismantle rigid gender roles that also hurt men. Feminists obviously do care for men. In fact they're the ones that lobbied for the law to change so rape included "forced to penetrate." And won, its now part of the legal definition. They are currently lobbying for parental leave. Bc being the only one expected to take unpaid time off work to care for a newborn ALONE while she's recovering is fucked up and it keeps women behind men in their careers. Men are not held back by reproduction, hence the need for paid parental and maternity leave for longer than 6 weeks. Women did that. What have you guys done but whine and hate an entire half of the population proving the existence of mass cultural misogyny while complaining they hate you bc of extremist views on twitter lol. You're just very misinformed and you guys make men's issues into a joke by blaming feminists, you're hurting men not helping them

[–]Jakeybaby125 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What evidence? Men and women are abused at the same rates. So that's a reason to dismiss war casualties? Stop being so misandric. It is actually. Just because you choose to ignore it because it doesn't fit your narrative doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Yes they are. That is a straight up lie. Mothers get primary custody 90% of the time. Can I say the exact same thing when a woman is raped? It is pure and blatant sexism despite you not seeing it that way. 9 months vs. 18 years. I wonder which is worse. Abortion is up for debate but financial abortion isn't and men should have that right if women have the right to abort. Default my ass. You're just trying to promote a narrative now and ignore anything that doesn't fit your narrative.That's also not true. Women do commit the same exact crime. They're just less likely to be arrested for it. That's bullshit

It claims to be a movement for equality so it should. White Western Women are the most privileged people on Earth right now. No it doesn't. It picks and chooses what's beneficial to women and keeps in place gender roles that help women. Look at what Mary P. Kiss, the NOW and feminists in India and Israel did with those exact issues. Again, false generalisations. Very typical of you misandrists. Here's what the MRM has accomplished:https://ncfm.org/ncfm-home/national-coalition-for-men-ncfm-samples-of-success/ https://twitter.com/JohannSchultz7/status/1263539302891352064 https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/h80isc/but_mras_just_complain_about_feminism_they_dont/ Feminists are hurting men. You are blatantly misinformed by your feminist allies and just blindly believe whatever lies they tell you about the MRM. That's very clear to see. Go back to your echo chamber of r/ feminism and complain about how oppressed you are there

[–]0mnica 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

Feminism is the belief in the equality of men and women.

If you believe this, your a lost cause. Actions speak louder than words.

Your entire comment reads like a radical feminist manifesto.

But men's bodies have been studied in medicine since the beginning they are very well understood. They had to make a law that scientists also used women in studies bc ONLY men were studied. It's only recently we've started focusing on women's health and understanding female anatomy, (women's bodies are STILL poorly understood as they are vastly more complicated than men's and were not included in studies) that's why there is so much attention paid to it.

This is the only thing I agree that you said, this is true, except your point is invalid when used as a "whataboutism".

Men face bias when seeking help sure, but so do women.

LoL, the entire Amber Turd vs Johnny Depp situation would prove you wrong. They are likely both abusive to each other in some form, but Depp has evidence, and audio recordings, and still labeled by #metoo and #feminists as a wife beater, while Amber Turd is still a spokesperson for #metoo and believed as a victim.

[–]Ivegotthatboomboom -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

Where have you gotten your info on feminism?? HERE? Examples of extremist views on twitter? I don't agree with all feminist thought, but I'm still a feminist. You need to get an education, read a history book. Stop reading bullshit that appeals to your emotions and look objectively. This sub is poison and is full of bias, lies and half-truths. You guys all repeat the exact same false info bc its all coming from the same source. And when someone shows you you're wrong you freak out. I don't understand what you get out of this hateful mindset and victim mentality. The issues are real, the supposed causes are not. Get it right and you might actually help men. Bc rn this movement hurts them. You guys have joined a extremist anti-women cult that no one takes seriously. You aren't pro-men. you're anti-women. What have you done but whine and imagine oppression due to gender?? Oppression due to class is the issue. Shit will never get fixed if we're all distracted by non-issues. It's not a zero-sum game. Women's gains toward equality with men don't take away from men. You guys are threatened by losing your higher social status. There was a movement just like yours when blacks gained equality. Claiming white people were oppressed, blacks aren't, the blacks hate whites, etc. Nothing but ignorance. Now women are gaining equality and a there's a huge backlash from men. Surprise, surprise. Can't have anything that isn't all about you right? Entitlement

[–]0mnica 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

You mean the books from one of the founding members of Feminism, that say that men should be reduced to 10% population. You people keep saying that all men are bad and rapists, but in reality they are a violent minority. Then pull the same BS excuse when we talk bout your so called "extremist feminists" how they are a minority and don't represent your views. But I never see you true feminists telling these extremists to shut the fuck up.

I am pissed, because I am constantly told by the main stream media, the family courts, bias in sentencing for men, and so called extremist feminists that we are worthless, rapists, who can't control ourselves around the opposite sex. So all women should be told to fear us and treat us like pedophiles around children.

Fuck you for defending your feminist view point, because if your a feminist your supporting the so called extremists.

And now you bring race into the equation, have I got news for you, black men are just as fucked/persecuted as white men, sometimes more so when it comes to court cases and police. But no, you go ahead and strawman that excuse.

Fuck off, I'm done with you, your a lost cause.

[–]Ivegotthatboomboom -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago* (10 children) | Copy Link

Its "you're" Feminism absolutely does NOT think men should be reduced to 10% of the population. That's fear mongering, paranoid BULLSHIT. It truly is an extremist minority with those women and feminism as a whole doesn't agree with every crackpot idea an individual women says lol. That's not how that movement works. It is isn't like MRAs where there's a belief system based on propaganda that all the members agree with.

YOU misunderstand what everyone is saying and CHOOSE to take it personally that a lot of men ARE dangerous and violent. It isn't an extremist minority. Everyone knows it's not all men. That's so ridiculous that you guys think women actually think that. The fact of the matter is pretty much every women has been a victim at some point. I understand this reality is invisible to you but it's the reality for us. I've had amazing men in my life. But women DO have to look out for themselves against men when they're out alone or after dark. If you aren't one of those men then why are you taking it personally?? WHY? Why do you guys assume everything is about YOU? Newsflash, its not. Not everything is about you.

The family courts aren't sexist against men although bias exists. When men go for full custody they win 70% of the time. More than women going for full custody. It only goes to court in 10% of divorces. Which means that women have custody more often bc 90% of the time he wanted her too. There's bias toward traditional gender roles, but that effects both sexes. Recent studies show that women and men get the same sentencing when committing the exact same crime, but guess what men commit more violent crimes and commit more crime in general. 98% of pedos are men. Also pedos go after little boys too, so it isn't even a women's problem although a lot more female children are targeted. So if you have kids you should be careful around anyone alone with your child, but especially strange men. As they are statistically more likely to be a predator. And they're waaay more common than you think. Women HAVE to watch out for themselves. You just can't fathom our reality, you deny it and not only that, take offense to it. Making it all about YOU. So entitled, no self centered. Why that offends you personally, idk but Its the truth. I promise you probably know one of those men but will never see that side of him.

Instead of LISTENING and giving a shit you guys take offense to the fact that we've all been victimized by men? lol Fuck off that is disgusting. That isn't the point. That isn't the point when we speak up about our experiences. But YOU expect to be listened to with no question, right? lol Of course

[–]0mnica 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ivegotthatboomboom -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

You can't just say someone is sexist when they aren't lol. That's like getting fired for a fuck up then saying it was because of your gender. Its meaningless, you clearly can't even define sexism. Sexism is EXCLUSION or DISCRIMINATION against someone because of their sex AND THEIR SEX ALONE. Repeating factual info you don't like, that goes against your echo chamber is not being sexist. I'd have this exact same convo if you were a woman. You disrespect actual victims of sexism by claiming you're experiencing it bc someone told you you're wrong. That's absurd and plain offensive.

Also that echo chamber comment is VERY ironic. If you didn't want MRA to be an echo chamber you'd encourage info that isn't confirmation bias. I actually have no echo chamber to run to bc I live in the real world with nuance

[–]Ivegotthatboomboom -2 points-1 points0 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]0mnica 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Ivegotthatboomboom -2 points-1 points0 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

A metoo spokesperson is not a thing. There are not representatives in that movement lol, it's not an organization. No one can say hey, you're not allowed to use that hashtag lol. Bc no one is in charge?? What are you even imagining metoo is?? Its a movement for women to speak out about the SEXUAL abuse they've experienced. She has been sexually abused, she's allowed to talk about it. Besides, it doesn't matter. He DID hit her. And not just in "self defense." Women can be both abusers and the abused. It's complex sometimes. In fact a lot of female abusers were abused in previous relationships and sometimes the abuse dynamic switches within the relationship. There is also reactive abuse, that happens when a victim snaps. I'm not saying that's what happened to her, I'm just pointing out that some abuse situations are complex and we don't know the whole story with Depp. All we know is he for sure has beat her, as in hit her first and other times she hit him. That does make her a victim. This narrative of Depp being this poor innocent victim needs to stop, he wasn't and she wasn't either.

Title	And people say men’s rights are not ignored?
Author	savetheworld786
Upvotes	205
Comments	46
Date	November 20, 2020 12:16 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/jxeo80/and_people_say_mens_rights_are_not_ignored/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/and-people-say-mens-rights-are-not-ignored.840277 https://theredarchive.com/post/840277

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