are the statistics provided by NSVRC False? if so in what way and how? and what is the true rate of rape in the usa?

duhhhh · 2023-07-22T13:59:25+00:00

They are probably close to the truth ... once you exclude nonconsensual envelopment of a penis as a form of rape ... which IMO is incredibly misleading.

For statistical reporting, rape has been carefully defined as forced penetration of the victim in most of the world. Please listen to this feminist professor Mary P Koss explain that a woman raping a man isn't rape. Hear her explain in her own voice just a few years ago - https://clyp.it/uckbtczn. I encourage you to listen to what she is saying. (Really. Listen to it! Think about it from a man's perspective.)

She is considered the foremost expert on sexual violence in the US. She is the one that started the 1 in 4 American college women is sexually assaulted myth by counting all sorts of things the "victims" didn't. A man misinterpreting a situation going in for a kiss and then backing off when she pulls back, puts up her hand, or turns her cheek is counted as a sexual assault on a woman even if she doesn't think it was. As you hear in her own words the woman's studies professor and trusted expert that literally wrote the book on measuring prevalence of sexual violence does not call a woman drugging and riding a man bareback rape ... or even label it sexual assault ... it is merely "unwanted contact"

You see she has been saying this for decades and was instrumental in creating the methodologies most (including the US and many other government agencies around the world) use for gathering rape statistics. E.g.

Detecting the Scope of Rape : A Review of Prevalence Research Methods. Author: Mary P. Koss. Journal of Interpersonal Violence Volume: 8 Issue: 2 Dated: (June 1993) Page: 206

Although consideration of male victims is within the scope of the legal statutes, it is important to restrict the term rape to instances where male victims were penetrated by offenders. It is inappropriate to consider as a rape victim a man who engages in unwanted sexual intercourse with a woman.

Src: http://boysmeneducation.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Koss-1993-Detecting-the-Scope-of-Rape-a-review-of-prevalence-research-methods-see-p.-206-last-paragraph.pdf

She is an advisor to the CDC, FBI, Congress, and researchers around the world and promoting the idea that men cannot be raped by women. There was a proposal to explicitly include forced envelopment in the latest FBI update to the definition of rape but after a closed door meeting with her and N.O.W. lobbiests, it mysteriously disappeared. She has many many followers and fellow researchers that follow her methodology and quote her studies. That is where most people get the idea rape is just a man on woman crime. Men are fairly rarely penetrated and it is almost always by another man.

Most people talking about sexual violence refer to the "rape" (penetrated) numbers as influenced by Mary Koss's methodologies, but in the US the CDC also gathered the data for "made to penetrate" (enveloped) in the 2010, 2011, 2012, and 2015 NISVS studies.

As an example lets look at the 2011 survey numbers: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss6308a1.htm

an estimated 1.6% of women (or approximately 1.9 million women) were raped in the 12 months before taking the survey

and

The case count for men reporting rape in the preceding 12 months was too small to produce a statistically reliable prevalence estimate.

vs

an estimated 1.7% of men were made to penetrate a perpetrator in the 12 months preceding the survey

and

Characteristics of Sexual Violence Perpetrators For female rape victims, an estimated 99.0% had only male perpetrators. In addition, an estimated 94.7% of female victims of sexual violence other than rape had only male perpetrators. For male victims, the sex of the perpetrator varied by the type of sexual violence experienced. The majority of male rape victims (an estimated 79.3%) had only male perpetrators. For three of the other forms of sexual violence, a majority of male victims had only female perpetrators: being made to penetrate (an estimated 82.6%), sexual coercion (an estimated 80.0%),

NISVS 2010 showed in the past 12 months, 1.1% of men were made to penetrate and 1.1% of women were raped. Table 2.1 & 2.2 on pages 18/19.

NISVS 2011 showed in the past 12 months, 1.7% of men were made to penetrate & 1.6% of women were raped. Table 1 on page 5.

NISVS 2012 showed in the past 12 months, 1.7% of men were made to penetrate & 1.0% of women were raped. Table A.1 & A.5 on pages 217/222.

NISVS 2015 showed in the past 12 months, 0.7% of men were made to penetrate & 1.2% of women were raped. Table 1 & 2 on pages 15/16.

Varies a bit from year to year, but pretty even overall. In both cases the four year annual percentages add up to five. The numbers for perpetrators vary a little from year to year too. Something like 79-84% of made to penetrate (nonconsensual envelopment) victims are victimized by women. Something like 96-99% of rape (nonconsensual penetration) victims are victimized by men. So in the 2010s, it averages out that a typical year has ~60% men & ~40% women as perpetrators of nonconsensual sex outside prisons rather than the 99:1 ratio discussed.

But since made to penetrate is not rape, the narrative is that men are rapists and women are victims and boys/men that are victims are victims of men. Therefore most of the gender studies folks create programs to teach men not to rape (e.g. /r/science/comments/3rmapx/science_ama_series_im_laura_salazar_associate/). Therefore there is justification for having gendered rape support services which means almost none for males victimized by females. These misleading stats are ammo to tell men to shut up about rape because 1 in 5 women are raped vs "only" 1 in 71 men and dismiss raped men because men are one group "nearly all the men were raped by other men" so somehow raped men are to blame because they are men...

If you don't like CDC data:

Scientific American: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sexual-victimization-by-women-is-more-common-than-previously-known

A recent study of youth found, strikingly, that females comprise 48 percent of those who self-reported committing rape or attempted rape at age 18-19.

The Atlantic: https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/11/the-understudied-female-sexual-predator/503492/

a 2014 study of 284 men and boys in college and high school found that 43 percent reported being sexually coerced, with the majority of coercive incidents resulting in unwanted sexual intercourse. Of them, 95 percent reported only female perpetrators.

and

National Epidemiologic Survey on Alcohol and Related Conditions found in a sample of 43,000 adults little difference in the sex of self-reported sexual perpetrators. Of those who affirmed that they had ‘ever forced someone to have sex with you against their will,’ 43.6 percent were female and 56.4 percent were male.”

Time: http://time.com/3393442/cdc-rape-numbers

when asked about experiences in the last 12 months, men reported being “made to penetrate”—either by physical force or due to intoxication—at virtually the same rates as women reported rape (both 1.1 percent in 2010, and 1.7 and 1.6 respectively in 2011).

If my information is not enough, try reading these five threads by problem_redditor with lots more studies and references.

/r/MensRights/comments/oc2yp0/some_sources_on_sexual_abuse_of_men_and_boys_part/

Just maybe, rape isn't a gendered issue and we should stop treating it like one. But if we acknowledge that, then we would have to point the blame at "rapists", rather than "men".

Isn't just the US.

Feminists lobbied against gender neutral rape laws in India, so women are not rapists and men victimized by women are not rape victims. https://www.timesofindia.com/india/Activists-join-chorus-against-gender-neutral-rape-laws/articleshow/18840879.cms

So a woman physically forcing sex on a man is not a rape in India, but a man breaking an engagement after having sex with his fiancee is a rape.

Israeli feminists were concerned if a woman raping a man was recognized by law, a man could threaten to make false accusations against the woman after the man raped her in order to keep her from reporting. Apparently false accusations are a problem for women, so they fixed this by blocking the legislation that would have made rape a gender neutral crime.

https://m.jpost.com/Israel/Womens-groups-Cancel-law-charging-women-with-rape

Nepal feminists also blocked legislation there ...

Women’s rights activists had criticised the draft ordinance saying it wasn’t empathetic towards the plight of the victims. They said that having a provision saying even men could be victims of rape could could further weaken the women rape victims’ fight for justice.

https://kathmandupost.com/national/2020/12/11/ordinance-amends-law-on-rape-but-fails-to-recognise-rape-of-boy-child-and-sexual-minorities

Even if you only care about women, you should still stop women from raping because the majority of men convicted of raping women were sexually violated by adult women when they were boys. Multiple studies in the US, UK, and Canada have shown this. Around 10 of them cited here.

http://empathygap.uk/?p=1993#_Toc498111528

So women not raping, and rape by women being acknowledged as traumatic and treated with compassion, would probably stop a lot of women from getting raped in the future. That should matter if the goal is to stop women from getting raped rather than to demonize men.

Current_Finding_4066 · 2023-07-22T14:18:39+00:00

"It is estimated that 734,630 people were raped (including threatened, attempted, or completed rape) "

Example of overblowing figures. They claim that almost a million people were raped and then add oh wait, it includes also threats of rape.

Current_Finding_4066 · 2023-07-22T14:21:18+00:00

They admit that up to 10% of rape allegations are false, then go on to state that the number is low. Consequences for the accused can easily be worse than getting raped.

So. Take the lowest estimates for false allegations. Highest for rape and then pretend data is not biased?

phoenician_anarchist · 2023-07-22T14:40:28+00:00

are the statistics provided by NSVRC False?

The problem is not whether the statistics themselves are false, it's the presentation and definitions that are the problem.

if so in what way and how?

For example, there are some who claim the stigma against herpes is unjustified because pretty much everyone has some kind of herpesvirus. Even if we ignore the logical flaw in the premise, the prevalence of what the vast majority of people think of when they hear "herpes" is usually single digit percentages, but, they're are using a different (manipulated) definition of "herpes" in order to support their point. Technically, it's true, but not in the way you would think.

The same is true of most (if not all) Feminist/woke statistics.

and what is the true rate of rape in the usa?

No-one can know the true count of rapes that happen, the best we have are estimates. Anyone who claims otherwise is trying to sell you something. (Same with false-accusation rates too.)

plumberack · 2023-07-22T15:37:59+00:00

If the definition of rape becomes gender neutral and charged for having sex school stats become public, that will be a true number.

Title	are the statistics provided by NSVRC False? if so in what way and how? and what is the true rate of rape in the usa?
Author	Upper-Ad9228
Upvotes	2
Comments	13
Date	July 22, 2023 10:40 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/156gqde/are_the_statistics_provided_by_nsvrc_false_if_so/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/are-the-statistics-provided-by-nsvrc-false-if-so.1226147 https://theredarchive.com/post/1226147

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