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Francis-c92
[–]truthserum23 9 points10 points11 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Is there a word in existence that describes the same behavior from women to men?
[–]Blix_the_Goblin 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
The only terms that come to mind would be "ladylike behavior" or "etiquette." There were certainly social rules that women followed in the Middle Ages, especially those of noble birth. They were expected to be chaste, obedient and devout.
What we know as "chivalry" today is actually just etiquette for gentlemen, or "gallantry" as some might call it. It's more inspired by literature than real history.
[–]truthserum23 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
And how often are those behaviors referred to in 2017?
[–]Blix_the_Goblin 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
When I lived in Texas, being ladylike and/or "Christian" is discussed quite a bit. "That ain't Christian" around there basically meant "that's rude and socially unacceptable." That is the world I grew up in, and it hasn't seemed to change whenever I visit.
In short, it depends where you are. I imagine a person growing up in SoCal would probably be used to a very different environment.
[–]truthserum23 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
In those areas you described, there are probably fewer raging feminists, cherry picking privileges, like in SoCal.
[–]ThrowawayGhostGuy1 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
RRREEEEEEEEEEEEE
[–]Ordinate1 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chivalry#Ten_Commandments_of_chivalry
Gautier's Ten Commandments of chivalry are: Thou shalt believe all that the Church teaches and thou shalt observe all its directions. Thou shalt defend the Church. Thou shalt respect all weaknesses, and shalt constitute thyself the defender of them. Thou shalt love the country in which thou wast born. Thou shalt not recoil before thine enemy. Thou shalt make war against the infidel without cessation and without mercy. Thou shalt perform scrupulously thy feudal duties, if they be not contrary to the laws of God. Thou shalt never lie, and shalt remain faithful to thy pledged word. Thou shalt be generous, and give largesse to everyone. Thou shalt be everywhere and always the champion of the Right and the Good against Injustice and Evil.
Gautier's Ten Commandments of chivalry are:
Thou shalt believe all that the Church teaches and thou shalt observe all its directions.
Thou shalt defend the Church.
Thou shalt respect all weaknesses, and shalt constitute thyself the defender of them.
Thou shalt love the country in which thou wast born.
Thou shalt not recoil before thine enemy.
Thou shalt make war against the infidel without cessation and without mercy.
Thou shalt perform scrupulously thy feudal duties, if they be not contrary to the laws of God.
Thou shalt never lie, and shalt remain faithful to thy pledged word.
Thou shalt be generous, and give largesse to everyone.
Thou shalt be everywhere and always the champion of the Right and the Good against Injustice and Evil.
Ah, Nazis, got it.
Yea, that's alive and well... unfortunately.
Next time, ask the woman if she believes and defends the church; everyone is doing a good job of making ceaseless war against infidels, though.
[–]Gregorein 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link
Why unfortunately?
[–]Gregorian_Tree 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
If you're an atheist and not particularly nationalist, that list cuts literally in half.
[–]Gregorein 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Then cut it and treat it as a moral guideline - wouldn't being a good person be universal in this case?
[–]Gregorian_Tree 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Yeah, you could do that, but we're talking about a moral code you're supposed to adopt or not adopt. If we're going to leave half the list off, why do we need the list?
[–]Gregorein 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Then don't adopt it and make your own. It's a guidline. A starting point. One might not need it, but if we have nothing to work with, we might run into the world we have today... oh.
[–]Gregorian_Tree 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Come on, we don't need a special term like 'chivalry' and a list of a dozen items to use as a base point for being kind and generous to people. Once the list is pared down, it's just being a decent human being and the code and term are both irrelevant and don't need to be kept.
It's like arguing that we need to keep the Augustinian Code because there's a few items in that rather large list that might arguably be useful to people who aren't monks in a monastery in the 10th century.
[–]Ordinate1 -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
Why would you want any of that? It's all religious and nationalist bigotry, as well as incitement to war.
The last 3 on the list are OK, but rather contradictory to the previous 7.
[–]Gregorein 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
Noone requires you to run around in full metal suit etc. Even if you throw out the God and Church because of reasons the commandments would still apply, as they can be applied to all sorts of conflict, not only warfare.
Be true to your moral compass. Recoginze the weak and provide them with rational help. Love the country you are in because you are going to be stuck there for a time. Do not give up without trying. There is time for mercy and there is time for justice. Obey the law and human rights.
Be true to your moral compass.
Recoginze the weak and provide them with rational help.
Love the country you are in because you are going to be stuck there for a time.
Do not give up without trying.
There is time for mercy and there is time for justice.
Obey the law and human rights.
Here, I remade them a bit. How do you like them now?
[–]Ordinate1 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
Can you remake these?
Thou shalt believe all that the Church teaches and thou shalt observe all its directions
"Do what you are told without question."
"My country, right or wrong."
Thou shalt make war against the infidel without cessation and without mercy
"Go kill anyone who isn't like you."
"Obey your social superiors unless superceded by your religious superior."
I am anti-authoritarian before I am either left- or right-wing; I will not support my country when it does evil; I see no need to kill people because they believe something different than I do; and I don't believe in either social classes or religious anything.
[–]Gregorein 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
If you read carefully my answer you'll find, that I did in fact remade those. Also
as they can be applied to all sorts of conflict, not only warfare. So if someone is clearly in wrong and is "attacking you", what would you do? That could be the "infidel".
Hm, if you don't believe in any system of religion or ideology, what is your base of "moral code"?
[–]Ordinate1 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
If you read carefully my answer you'll find, that I did in fact remade those
I didn't see any possible way of getting from "Believe all that the Church teaches" to anything that you said.
Well, I didn't say that I don't believe in any system of ideology, but neither religion nor ideology are sources of morality.
I believe that morals are founded in evolutionary psychology and sociology, in particular the principle of Reciprocity, which is founded in a recognition of fairness that even animals display.
My particular moral base is secular humanism, but it's not a doctrine or dogma so much as a general attitude, to wit that an action is judged to be good or bad by its intended and actual consequences.
[–]Gregorein 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
I put them one to one so for "Thou shalt believe all that the Church teaches and thou shalt observe all its directions." would be the
[–]Ordinate1 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Yea, one of those is about doing what YOU think is right, and the other is about doing what OTHER PEOPLE think is right.
Those are diametrically opposed concepts.
[–]Gregorein 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Treat it like a group of people with a mutual moral code, deciding together. I don't think these are the opposing concepts, but rather the "solo" vs "team".
[–]Ordinate11 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Treat it like a group of people with a mutual moral code, deciding together
But that's not what it says, at all; it says "the Church," and in context, that meant the Catholic Church, which meant the Pope.
Individuals don't have any say in what the Church decides is moral, especially when leaving the church is punishable by death (see Commandment #6).
[–]Gregorein1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Yeah, you are wrong in quite a few places. How does Pope get chosen? What a vatican councils and synods?
I'm not sure about the "leave church - die" part, too. Where does it come from? Because by saying "the Church" you mean only the catholic roman church with Pope and Vatican.
How does Pope get chosen? What a vatican councils and synods?
And the members of the church have what say in that process? Those are almost entirely made up of people chosen by the previous pope!
It says, "make war against the infidel," which covers everyone not in the church; leaving the church, then, meant that everyone following the chivalric code was supposed to try to kill you.
[–]qwertyWerty2 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Lol
[–]Blutarg 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Haha!
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