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Does gender equality mean equality for men? - Presentation by Prof. Guy Madison from Umeå University, Sweden

Kaine_90

July 19, 2019
19 upvotes
/r/MensRights

Does gender equality mean equality for men?

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Post Information
Title Does gender equality mean equality for men? - Presentation by Prof. Guy Madison from Umeå University, Sweden
Author

Kaine_90

Upvotes 19
Comments 4
Date July 19, 2019 11:13 PM UTC
(7 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/cfeppd/does_gender_equality_mean_equality_for_men/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/does-gender-equality-mean-equality-for-men.873131
https://theredarchive.com/post/873131
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Comments

[–]mtcapri 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Very interesting lecture, thanks for posting! It's interesting to see that women score so much higher in Neuroticism scores than men, I wasn't expecting that. Also, I was aware of how gender differences actually increase in more egalitarian, richer countries, but it was interesting to see how that data support the increased resources theory as opposed to the social role theory favored by feminists. Fascinating stuff!

And I was very pleased to see the presenter conclude that the quota systems being pushed so hard in Sweden and elsewhere are wrong-headed. To me, it's just plain ethically wrong, but it was nice to see the data actually show it's barking up the wrong tree.

[–]Kaine_90[S] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

You're welcome. I came across the channel for the first time just yesterday. A lot of good and science-based stuff on there, so I felt it deserved being shared. The other one I watched was Gender Bias in Moral Typecasting | Dr Tania Reynolds, Kinsey Institute & Indiana University, US which is also interesting (although the overall conclusion shouldn't surprise anyone), and relevant when discussing topics such as the MeToo movement.

​

I myself score high in neuroticism, and I'm fairly certain that I'm much closer to the average female than the average male in that regard. Now, scoring high here is not necessarily a big problem, although it does bring with it some challenges in certain aspects (e.g. getting easily irritated, stressed out, and generally worry a lot). Secondly, the human psyche is extraordinarily complex, and The Big Five is just one particular (albeit highly acknowledged) way to calculate personality traits as defined by the researchers that designed it. Likewise, the various traits all work in conjunction, obviously. What is interesting in this regard, however, is the recent attack on Stoicism by The American Psychological Association in their new guidelines for Psychological Practice with Boys and Men, since the philosophy of Stoicism is precisely a helpful approach to tackle negative behavioral tendencies such as the ones neuroticism may make people more inclined to. This is a perfect display of what is either a strong bias, which itself goes directly against the principles of academic integrity; or a fundamental ignorance of what Stoicism entails. In the guidelines you'll find paragraphs such as these:

​

Psychologists can discuss with boys and men the messages they have received about withholding affection from other males to help them understand how components of traditional masculinity such as emotional stoicism, homophobia, not showing vulnerability, self-reliance, and competitiveness might deter them from forming close relationships with male peers (Brooks, 1998; Smiler, 2016). (p. 11)

​

Additionally, psychologists are aware of the connections between mental health stigma and traditional masculinity ideologies, which may influence men’s responses to traditionally stigmatized mental health problems (e.g., depression, anxiety). Psychologists also strive to reduce mental health stigma for men by acknowledging and challenging socialized messages related to men’s mental health stigma (e.g., male stoicism, self-reliance). (p. 18)

​

Douglas Murray has written what I consider to be a very fair critique of this ignorant and destructive approach towards mens' mental health that these new APA guidelines are a manifestation of: Why Has Masculinity Become a Dirty Word? Other responses can also be found in these articles: We Need Stoicism More Than Ever and Twelve Scholars Respond to the APA’s Guidance for Treating Men and Boys.

​

The so-called "Gender Paradox" is indeed very interesting, and also something I became familiar with fairly recently. Jordan Peterson was interviewed about it in this interview on Danish national television. One of the researchers behind the study gives some counterpoints at around 09:00 as to what may be the cause of this. Yet so far I haven't seen anyone present a more concrete explanation than the fundamental biological differences between men and women as Jordan Peterson talks about.

I'm Scandinavian although luckily not from Sweden. As a response to what you mention, it's not that we are richer if you measure it by GDP per capita; it's that we have a strong welfare state which ensures things such as healthcare and education for all its citizens. This in consequence translates into a greater degree of what is often termed egalitarianism in this context. The principles are based on ensuring equal opportunities regardless of socio-economic background. The recent phenomena of equality of outcome that we see pushed so aggressively in countries such as Sweden has nothing to do with the fundamental principles of the Scandinavian welfare states. Sweden has gone batshit crazy these past years. They have now gotten a lot of radical feminists in the government who are not afraid to express their extreme bigotry and hate towards men in pursuit of their political agenda. It's really quite fascinating to observe how such bigotry and intolerance has become the norm in the public debate there. No objective data are presented to back up any of their claims; instead they employ manipulative rhetoric and shaming tactics. They will openly reject basic biology that any person who has been through primary school would have learned. One example is the politician, Veronica Palm, who did exactly that in a debate on the wage gap on the Swedish national public TV channel, SVT. Yeah, it's that bad. I don't have an explanation for what dynamics were in play for it get that far in Sweden.

As Guy Madison mentions in that lecture, no sensible person—within the academic field or outside—will deny that our environment plays a role in shaping us and how we interact with the world around us. This is nothing new, obviously. Similarly, no sane person will deny that men and women are biologically different and that the differences herein such as hormones play a significant role as expressed both in physique and psyche.

[–]gnulligan 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh boy that's a tough question hmmmm

[–]McGauth925 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Post removed by author. This isn't the place or time.

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