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Honestly, I think it makes some fair points through a woman's eyes... but these images are really unfair towards men.

rafajafar

May 28, 2014

0 upvotes

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Post Information

Title	Honestly, I think it makes some fair points through a woman's eyes... but these images are really unfair towards men.
Author	rafajafar
Upvotes	0
Comments	33
Date	May 28, 2014 4:17 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/26pf5u/honestly_i_think_it_makes_some_fair_points/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/honestly-i-think-it-makes-some-fair-points-through.1000093 https://theredarchive.com/post/1000093

Comments

[–]Captaincastle 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]rafajafar 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]Captaincastle 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]rafajafar 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]DavidByron2 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]rafajafar 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]DavidByron2 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]rafajafar 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]DavidByron2 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]rafajafar 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]DavidByron2 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]rafajafar 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

What results have you seen?

Good question. Mixed results, but I have made some progress. There are some feminists who, just like you, use very strong language which evokes a negative response in the listener (shall I cite examples or can you guess where I felt you started with that?). They tend to have a very emotional response to any discussion, mostly out of frustration. About (and yes I'm estimating) 80% of these people need to have the discussion many times before they hear it and 20% will never hear it.

I tend to float in a very feminist crowd. Many of my friends are not just advocates, but activists in the feminist movement, organizing such things as the DC Slut Walk. For the past two years I have been injecting conversation in a grass-roots style to really bring to light some glaringly legitimate MRM issues. These were easy, but the way they first approached the subject was, "Well you should let feminism take care of that." This goes on for a while, with my response being, "That's what men said when women wanted equal rights." It didn't shut them up, but they would typically say something like, "No, it's different," without giving really good responses as to why.

I never got emotional.

I never got upset.

I never acted angry or frustrated.

Over time, most of my friends at least acknowledge that feminism has ignored men's issues in general. Many of them acknowledge the MRM as a legitimate movement. Those who do not try to pick fights and use harsh accusatory language. I do not give in, and they really wind up working for me because of it. By looking like crazy radicals, they alienate people who do not feel comfortable in that environment. By striving to be a good role model and calm representative of the MRM, I often get the, "I never saw it that way before," response.

My most success, of course, is with male friends. That said, there are some who resist. Most male friends are afraid to identify as MRA... and that's because of the fighting and the power that feminism holds over public opinion. Instead of judging them, I just ask that they stand up for what is right. Over the course of the past year, I've gotten far less push back and far more rational discourse about these topics.

While this is in my local group of about 400 friends and acquaintances, I can see the change... and it makes me happy. I don't plan on changing my tactics.

As for how long I was supporting men's rights? My father started a Fatherhood Initiative in the Head Start program many many years ago. I was involved in helping him with development on that front and always supported him. My mother is an extreme feminist, as are my sisters. I didn't realize until I was about 21 how that changed my perspective on myself, and after that I stopped identifying as a feminist. While the MRM is (relatively) new to me, the concepts of equality that I've been advocating are not.

It wasn't until I identified as an egalitarian MRA that I received any accusations of misogyny. This, to me, means that the MRM has an image issue... but the message of equality does not. I fix it in the way that I can... through friends, family, and associates. It works for me.

[–]DavidByron21 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]rafajafar1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]DavidByron20 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]DavidByron2 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]rafajafar 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]DavidByron2 -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]rafajafar 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]DavidByron2 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I dont really give a crap what feminists say about MRAs but I think you are confused here.

What i said was that I assume she's just a feminist talking hate speech. You said she might be a woman who isn't a feminist trying to express real issues. I said I don't think such people exist really because outside of feminism there just isn't any space to talk about women's issues.

Maybe if both sides stopped being so

Since I talked about 3 "sides" I don't know what 2 you mean there. I assume you just ignored the idea of non-feminist women and assumed this is all feminist vs MRA. I just don't give a shit about that because there's no sincerity in feminism. It's all just hate. They really dont care about women either.

I mean when was the last time feminists did anything for women?

find the feminists who might also be willing to take those steps

There are none. if you don't believe me try finding some.

[–]rafajafar 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Alzael 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]rafajafar -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]Alzael -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]rafajafar 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]Alzael 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]rafajafar 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Alzael 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I'm not the one with the problem

Yes, you are. Just quoting a dictionary doesn't make your case. Your claim was that judging someone on impossible gender standards was sexist. So how does that meet the definition of "prejudice or discrimination based on ones gender"?

It clearly shows some serious catch-22's.

I never said it didn't , that was not the claim. Your claim was that it presented "impossible gender standards".

Showing, for instance, an image of one woman who is very obese and one woman who is emaciated and effectively saying "don't be too fat or too skinny" is not an impossible gender standard. You're just trying to make it into something it's not.

I think you're denying a problem because you're biased towards one movement over another.

Which is funny, since I belong to neither.

That's understandable, but unproductive.

If you want "productive" then make an actual point. As opposed to making up things to complain about in regards to a stupid comic.

[–]rafajafar 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Alzael -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]rafajafar 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Alzael0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]rafajafar1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link