Toxic Masculinity

QueenNayru · 2020-01-07T22:21:51+00:00

The term toxic masculinity is a bait and switch term as I understanding. In one context it's all thats wrong with hyper masculinity, then in the next it is the current patriarchal system in which we live.

So it is simaltaniously a term to describe issues with the individual and the group. This makes it hard to pin down as it is both a set of actions, and also the set of beliefs of a group. Any attempt to box in the idea to a set of constants to be observed prompts a phase shift and it is a new entity defying any constants.

If you try to talk about men not being able to express themselves and you come to close to realizing that it's women's reaction to make expression (primarily women being less romantically interested in sensitive men) Toxic masculinity is now about individual men getting to angry.

If you try to talk about hyper aggressive people and come to close to realizing that there are just as aggressive and violent women out there, toxic masculinity shifts to societies expectations.

At best it is a distraction, at worst it's a gaslighting attempt trying to trick people into believing that is an inherent flaw surrounding men, and the only solution is to just listen to the feminists/gender theorists/extreme leftists/women/not traditional men.

But again, that's just my interpretation.

EvilLothar · 2020-01-08T15:36:40+00:00

This is like saying "Toxic hammers", or Toxic knives".

Masculinity is NEVER toxic. It's a part of being a man. Hammers and knives kill people, but they are not toxic. It's how they are used.

Suicide - Men don't have the resources to get help even when they want it. Men don't "try" to kill themselves, they get the job done properly more then women do.

Domestic violence - Again, men don't have the resources to come forward and not be branded the criminal in the situation... it has nothing to do with masculinity.

Depression - Where does a man go for help? Does anyone give a shit?

Don't believe the trash that anything about being a man is toxic.

Lethn · 2020-01-07T22:14:12+00:00

Now first off, I don’t deny that it exists, in some circles it does

The moment you entertain the notion that men can be toxic simply because of how they're born that's when you lose and feminists win. I may as well not read the rest of your post at this point, it's a made up buzzword that feminists use to demonise men as a whole.

Oncefa2 · 2020-01-07T22:14:54+00:00

Toxic masculinity is just internalized misandry that is rigidly enforced by gender feminists in our society.

UbiQiTos · 2020-01-09T16:40:01+00:00

Hello, u/Sky29102003

For what I know the term of "Toxic Masculinity" or at least the brain-child of the essence behind it was Raewyn Collin who is a basket case of a literal misandrist who one can question if he hated men so much that it was the base for why he wanted and did transition to be a woman, or it was the other way around..... chicken and the egg conundrum. But that is besides the point.

And ‘she’ was later on the one who invented the (theory) of "Hegemonic Masculinity”, but more importantly cemented the term "Toxic Masculinity" within academia with her 1985 paper, "Theorizing Genderbased" where she created the framework behind the shiny surface.

Connell lays the groundwork by basing it on the theory of "Cultural Hegemony” by the Marxist intellectual Antonio Gramsci.

For which attributing dysfunctional behaviour in men to socially imposed gender roles and stereotypes likened to that of the "Cultural Hegemony" theory's assertion of the ruling class’s use of imposition of its worldview as a social norm to dominate an otherwise assumed to be culturally diverse society.

To which that “Hegemonic Masculinity” is derived from this theory was used to establish social expectations of masculine characteristics as both a vehicle for and evidence of male domination of women. Which has now later on through feminist influence and in practice “extortion” in academia is now seen as one of the defining factors in the CMNI (Conformity to Masculine Norms Inventory) in the phrasing of masculine normative desire to have “power over women”.

And it all makes perfect sense in the end if one takes into account the axiomatic value of highest moral good in the feminist equation.

Which was conceptualised by the coiner of Feminism himself and father of Utopian Socialism, Charles Fourier, and he defined it in essence as:

“Judging society by how it benefits women as a class”

Because if one perspective is that the axiomatic moral good in any given perspective is to judge everything by how it benefits women, not as individuals but as a class specifically, well that easily leads to some dogmatic thinking.

Sprinkle in some good Jihadi/Mein Kampf/Communist Manifesto narratives of struggle that religiously shan't be questioned like:

_"The history of mankind is a history of repeated injuries and usurpation on the part of man toward woman, having in direct object the establishment of an absolute tyranny over her,"_

And you have a potent mix of grievance culture, one where something doesn’t even have to be detrimental, just that it doesn't benefit women but rather men and it's a moral afront to women as a class. Well then you have created as self-righteous world view that makes it perfectly logically coherent to denigrate and act in pre-emptive means towards men and classify toxicity to behaviour not in use for women and is in flux on what it really is.

Which is why the purpose of this new theory wasn’t to free men from there patriarchal shackles of oppressive social norms as many will proclaim. But in the end it was an excuse for imposing new ones based on an ideological perspective where men are viewed as inherently dysfunctional, and it's judged by feminist prescription on how men's behaviour benfit women as a class. To put it in another way, an excuse to have men “Made in the image of feminism”.

And this isn't modern feminism or 3rd wave..... this is 2nd wave that has been growing under the surface in academia, law and policy making and is just now taking large scale hold in contemporary zeitgeist and popular culture. Like a lot of what is pointed as 3rd wave but comes from the 2nd wave and the same from 1st wave and so on all the way back to Fourier.

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On the origins of the term it came before Collins cemented it within academia as many snotty feminists will point out, feminists and groups like the Mythopoetic Men’s Movement used it loosely. But even among these so called “Men’s rights movements” of 70’s and 80’s where the term is purported to originate from like the “The Mythopoetic Men’s Movement” which was still just a feminist organisation apologetic about masculinity living within the oppression narrative.

But at least those groups were slightly more positive and constructive towards masculinity, but not by a lot. Masculinity was always talked about in the form of emotionally stunted men or broken/defective women. So they tried to just say that some masculine traits are defective rather than men as a whole. And it instead just became a codified way to attack men at their core and a case for social engineering.

Either way, both used the term in conjunction with attempts to define "healthy" masculinity in terms of men’s USEFULLNESS to women, rather than in terms of men’s welfare. That use of it makes the term one of hostility and condemnation if not outright dehumanisation in some cases.

And when it comes to the theory it's pure asininity that can be boiled down to that men are defective women who instead of being born so are just taught to act defective by the nebulous forces of the patriarchy that can't even be properly defined. This is the underlying framework of when feminists are saying that it is not men or "true" masculinity that is toxic, but only that not all masculinity approved within the framework of the feminist Patriarchy™ "theory" (hypothesis/assertion) is toxic. Or they go full autist and state that It's just means what it literally means and nothing else and they are the true feminist and not those who are in academia , law and such.

And just the underlying issue of the affect priming being done through usage of toxic with the word masculinity is another I thought a lot about, how much are people being actually conditioned to feel negative towards the word masculinity by hearing the word toxic just before is probably for many quite substantial. We already know how little control we have of our minds compared to our lived experience and it's the basis for Cognitive Behavioural Therapy.

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This is just the abridged version it all, we haven’t even delved into the though juice parts of this insanity, though I did mentioned a part of it. Which is the framework of the destruction of even “regular” or so called normative masculinity within the CMNI.

….. such as “power over women”, “disdain for homosexuals” and oho so much more.

Which the new defining traits list was in essence concocted with young and mostly female undergraduates sitting at a table discussing amongst themselves to confirm what is masculine traits.... and they came to the conclusioin that it was "Wining, emotional control, risk-taking, violence, dominance, playboy, self-reliance, primacy of work, power over women, disdain for homosexuals, and pursuit of status".

If you want a TL:DR version of that then watch the excellent video by TL:DR titled “TL;DR - The Pseudoscience of Masculine Norms and the CMNI”

On top of that, now we have institutions such as the American Psychological Association's new guidelines for dealing with men and boys have they have now basically codified the tenants of the term "Toxic Masculinity" with these assertions of “Normative masculinity” under the re-branding of "Constrictive masculinity". Basically men and boys are being pegged with a rusty spike in the mental health department even more.

And if you are someone who doesn’t live in the US and you think that it's just the American institutions and it doesn't have anything to do with me, well you are wrong. APS Is one of the most influential institutions on psychology in the world and as with much within academia and even just market forces, what the USA does so does most others follow to a large degree.

Sorry for the mess of a rant, just cobbled together this with things I had written before and added a little here and there.

Title	Toxic Masculinity
Author	Sky29102003
Upvotes	1
Comments	8
Date	January 7, 2020 10:02 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/elikd5/toxic_masculinity/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/toxic-masculinity.861492 https://theredarchive.com/post/861492

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