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st4rcrafty
[–]Gypsy__ 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link
I don't know this is a pretty big long shot dude. I can think of plenty counter examples amongst my group of lebros that i know who pretty much contradict your argument. Some have never had contact with men never were sexually abused and have no negative feelings towards men. More so sounds like your just gearing some kind of anger towards women.
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago* (11 children) | Copy Link
The usual "I know two gay men who said they were never abused" and I happen to know several who were. I think there is a lot of dishonesty and emotion involved in talking about the causes of homosexuality - that naturally would have someone say "I just felt that way growing up" rather than "my uncle used to molest me and no one helped me out so the shame caused me to try certain psychologically altering things that became part of my personhood, and oops I live in California now where straight readjustment therapy is banned but gay therapy isnt."
Every gay person I know had sexual trauma in their youth and or a lack of balanced male/female influences growing up. Look at straight men who go to jail, get repeatedly raped (I.e. sexually conditioned), and leave at least bi if you still want to think it's genetic and not conditioned.
And don't start off by telling me about how male snakes fucking each other in a pile is the same as homosexuality in humans.
[–]Gypsy__ 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
I can just as easily say every gay person i know hasn't though which is still true I don't know one single gay person who has. I'm by no means a LGBT activist frankly i think it should be their own business and I don't really care what they do. This however seems like a pretty big long shot at figuring out female homosexuality. I have to wonder if you even read the post after you bring up male homosexuality being caused by trauma in your post just now, because according to starcrafty here it only stands that GIRLS have to be molested in order to be lesbians
If there are exceptions to a rule in psychology so immediately available then guess what... chances are your thesis is completely wrong as your going to find PLENTY more of those exceptions out there.
[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
It's not just "being molested". It's untreated sexual trauma with an imbalance of male and female role models in lifeinfluences during developmental stages, or it can be conditioned through trauma (the prison scenario). I know you can say things just as easily but I have gay family members and friends, and I have had to review certain patients' psychological records of a gay and lesbian center in LA as part of a case once, and even there when I had to scan session notes, guess what every fucking person of the 40 or so notes had in common? It wasn't just about parents not fulfilling their roles, but it was about abnormal experiences during developmental years that they're seeking help for now.
Homosexuality in men and women is both by conditioning. He is saying these women long for male attention in the exact same way that some men who are rejected time and time again feel that the only option they have is other men, since the other sex has been so harsh to them. I lived with a beta who I try to help to this day who gets shit on and dejected by the woman he orbits around because she'll give him condom sex once a month and then fuck other guys the rest of the time, and tell him. He is a hair away from being a full blown queer and I am sure he's bisexual based on a night he had a friend over when I lived with him. The point is that this guy has a set of values that's had him lead 27 years of being a doormat shit on not by women but the entire world, and he internalizes the anger and lets it eat at him.
So again, homosexuality is conditioned in humans. Key examples are twins raised in separate environments can be straight/gay and then how straight men go to jail, experience extreme sexual trauma, and become gay if not concretely bisexual. It's about sexual trauma and imbalances in developmental influences.
[–]Gypsy__ -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link
Let's throw out all the research that contradicts otherwise :D http://i.imgur.com/UT69wID.gif
[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
There is absolutely no consensus supporting a genetic cause. Saying that a few hundred animal species have homosexuality out of millions doesn't prove anything, especially when for example male snakes fucking other male snakes in a pile don't know what they're doing.
It's funny how you can't say anything about the twins being raised scenario nor the prison scenarios, just a little smiley face about fake consensus.
[–]Gypsy__ 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link
Its funnier how you wont provide the examples you just reference them im googeling away and cant find one shred of research on what your saying... however http://outfrontonline.com/ofcnow/twin-brothers-one-gay-one-straight-go-beyond-nature-and-nurture/ kinda calls your logic into question i mean two twins raised by the same family one deals with trauma of being bullied and outcasted turns straight the other stands up for him and takes on the masculine roll and turns turns out to be gay...
Edit: also your putting words in my mouth to further your point somehow i never mentioned separate species... whats with you and this snake pit concept ???
Edit2: you also should uhh do some reasearch on twins in general and their genetics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics however I'm done here i dont feel any obligation to convince you if you choose to remain wrong you can i couldn't care less at this point honestly its clear your convinced homosexuality is somehow caused by sexual trauma ... which has been looked at and has been researched and has come up to create a plethora of sexual repercussions homosexuality however never was one. You said you were in L.A doing this at a center where you took care of patients did it ever cross your mind that maybe just maybe a trauma center for LGBT AND straight people might uh entail a lot of people with a lot of umm trauma? Or is that too much of a long shot for me to be making?
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It was general practice psychology, you can figure out which one if I told you it's the biggest center here.
Again, it's about untreated trauma that turns to shame, internalized anger, fear, etc. that alters your psychology. I myself suffered minor sexual trauma in my childhood and confronted it, and I have no shame about things that happen out of one's control. I have taken a full mental inventory and know who I am.
Epigenetics does not explain the prison scenario that happens as surely as there are men in prison. It even happens in women's prisons, watch any prison show or documentary to see when straight new inmates are told by bulldikes that they'll soon be her girlfriend.
The homosexual lobby will do anything to push the can't control it angle. You sure as hell can, it's why California allows gay therapy but not straight therapy.
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
And your sob story from gaypropaganda.com says nothing about critical moments in their development, just jumps to poof all of a sudden one is gay and defends the other one. What horseshit you people always use.
[–]Gypsy__ 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link
gaypropaganda.com... good one your real witty. you people wtf? In your mind who the fuck are you categorizing me in with here? Your literally so full of shit you have actually built up some picture in your mind of who i am because i disagree with you and have bothered to go find sources to base my claims on where as you don't bother because your so self focused you actually don't think its necessary for yourself provide evidence to prove your point. Your either lying about your position at this point or literally just don't understand your own work in psychology ffs in the opening courses to this shit you learn correlation and how to apply it and your doing it wrong.
I didn't post the epigenetics article for anything having to do with prison in mates if you would have read it you would further understand twins and genetics and how they don't always equate to having the same personality and same traits.
Actually prison in mates rape each other to prove dominance the same way dogs do. Not so much for sexual gratification but more so to say im your superior your my bitch and and i have power over you IE im the alpha however the idea of being superior to others does help in getting them off somehow i'd imagine more so than the idea that they're having gay buttsex with some dude who doesnt want it at all.
I think you'd be quite hard pressed to find any instances of men being raped in prison and then deciding they like it once they leave and if you do its certainly going to be in the extreme minority case. That however isnt even what this original thread was about it was about females only becoming lesbian after dealing with sexual trauma you have ajnd ill give this to you successfully derailed that completely on to your own topic and theory entirely which is so incredibly stupid i'm finding it hard to find any examples backing your statements.
Edit: and since when was gay therapy something that worked in the long term even 50+% of the time?\ just checked they have a whopping 27-46% success rate...
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It's not about gay therapy working even though up to 46% is basically half, it's about banning one practice because it works and threatens the underpinnings of a political movement.
Any time a redditor makes your points they throw up the ol epigenetics wikipedia article. It's literally clockwork and I know you were referencing the twins. But the article itself casts doubts on the theory and doesn't say it's definitive.
It's not that the raped prisoners like it, they're conditioned to want it and it's a result of their trauma. It's not a choice at that point until they work to undo the psychological damage.
It is exactly the same as girls who tell you to hold their arms down because it happened to them at a young age.
[–]st4rcrafty[S] -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Yeah I knew some beta would come on here commenting on how this isnt true because of some small sample size. Doesn't mean shit dude. If you know dykes that dont have anything against men, then thats the exception, not the rule.
And how do you figure that this means i have an anger towards your precious womyns? I don't follow that "logic" at all.
[–]Gypsy__ 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The fact that you immediately assume your sample size is somehow the majority of gay females is kind of astoundingly arrogant... How am I a beta for questioning a conclusion you decided to come to. Especially after what seems like zero actual research was done and this was more so just a thought that crossed your mind one night.
Also its sad how fast you just turned aggressive once questioned. I could give a damn if you think im beta xD feel free to throw that word out every time you see someone contradicting you, you'll get real real far just assume right away they're below you for not agreeing :)
Now why do i feel like this is anger geared towards women? It's blatant dude how can you say only women lesbians have to be molested or have some trauma in order to turn gay? There's LARGE portions of straight females who were molested as well and guess what they're straight just like there are large portions of straight men and gay men who were molested and still end up with whatever sexual orientation they were going to. Your also intentionally using the word dyke to gain some sort of reaction just the willingness to go out of your way to try and use words like that to gain something shows how little this topic actually matters to you and your just spewing beta bullshit out your ass to have some relevance on this subreddit... your an idiot frankly.
(Now reason this out by calling me a beta like the moron you are :)
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Probably not. Lesbians are more masculine. If you give a femake rate testosterone it will start mounting other rats.
[–]dabidniss 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
As a generality, this is spot on. Lesbians do exist but once you get passed the NAWALT argument, what you describe is accurate to my own experiences as well.
I contribute this to women having more leeway in exploring sexuality. Men cannot make out with each other and still keep their SMV. Women can and sometimes increase their value. Combine this with instant male attention, why not make out with a hot chick?
If a chick rides the bisexual carousel then hits the wall. Lesbianism seems like a good prospect.
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Hi. Been there. Done that. Munched that carpet.
Fucked lesbians left and right. I seriously doubt any of them are seriously lesbians. And I mean any of them. If you met a woman, like say, fuckin Andrea Dworkin, the super-hippo. Fucked her, for some fuckin reason that's beyond every fuckin being in the world, you can bet, she will crawl to you through the fuckin sahara for some attention.
Don't care who says what. Fucked lesbians before. And I can do it again.
[–]RejectionEquality0 points 12 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
One of my plates claims to be a lesbian.
Somewhere between butch and punk. Surprisingly hot naked. Pierced nipples with thick gauge steel, tattoos, short hair that doesn't look too bad on her. Tight little ass. Fucks like a beast. Looks me dead in the eyes like she's in love.
Her girlfriend knows and they fight a little bit about it but neither really give a shit. She wants to fuck me too but I'm not in any hurry. The three of us get along pretty well, but no commitment.
Gonna miss her when I move to the land o' lesbians later this year.
Be blunt with them. "Oh, you're a lesbian? Cool, let's fuck."
I love breakin in lesbians and being all, "see? you're not a lesba."
usually get a hamstering theory after that but, whatever. The way she sucked my dick, I can tell she wanted a dick all those time she was munching carpet.
lol.. munching carpet. always reminds me of south park, that phrase.
Agree to an extent. Sexual curiosity in men is significantly more taboo than it is in women. I've heard many straight women, for lack of a better word, fantasize about another woman. Or at the very least have some sexual interest in another woman. All the while being COMPLETELY straight.
Curiosity and experimenting DO NOT equal sexual orientation. Period. Human nature dictates we take something we don't know and fuck with it until we achieve some sort of understanding.
That said, I think women share a common sexual goal with men- procreation. But have a significantly different approach. For men, there are two points and a line. Point A is my dick, point B your vagina. And the line is measured in the seconds it takes me to get in there. Almost incalculable.
For women, sexual sensation is a wholly different animal than ours. Clit, inside, outside, anus, neck, earlobes. I don't think I'm over stating when I say women are definitively more sensitive than men, ESPECIALLY sexually. Not that some men don't have that weird sweet spot but 99/100 that sweet spot is your dick.
I think in a subconscious way, women feel more "at home" or "secure" exploring and experimenting with other women, as compared to men with men. Basically because of so much un-searched and unexplored territory, a women may feel more at ease with another woman who is also looking for that same treasure.
Lastly, I think this translates into our society. A woman's depth is more comfortably discovered with another woman who knows what that depth is like, and can be handled accordingly with empathy and regard. However, men are more topical. What you see it was what you get. Because our sexual exploration is so different, yet so vital, I believe that's why the standards have been set the way they are today. Not because someone wrote down the rules, this is simply nature dictating how it goes.
[–]Blaw40 -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
None of them are born that way. It's a choice.
[–]TRP VanguardVZPurp -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
One part that makes this problem quite difficult to analyze is the female capacity for history revision, and subsequently spreading that notion of her history to other people, who then accept the information without question.
However, if you dated her for a few years, and known her for longer, it's easy to correlate changes in sexuality with events in her life.
Seems there's more of a tendency for fluid bisexuality in women than for strict homosexuality.
[–]suscitare -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Lesbianism certainly is not genetic since any appearence of such a gene would be expunged from the gene pool very quickly.
And it certainly isn't normal. Humans are heteronormative, meaning homosex is not normal nor was it intended by our evolution.
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[–]Gypsy__ 4 points5 points6 points (14 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point (11 children) | Copy Link
[–]Gypsy__ 1 point2 points3 points (10 children) | Copy Link
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[–]Gypsy__ 1 point2 points3 points (3 children) | Copy Link
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[–]st4rcrafty[S] -1 points0 points1 point (1 child) | Copy Link
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[–]dabidniss 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–]RejectionEquality0 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
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[–]Blaw40 -2 points-1 points0 points (1 child) | Copy Link
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