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[–]Lead ModeratorThrowawayPUA 3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Mystery, on the the moderated Alt Seduction Fast Forums, said that his all time favorite neg was simply blowing his nose in front of his potential girl.
No, that's not a neg. That's a disqualifier. If you were interested in a girl, you'd never blow your nose in front of her, that would make you look bad. Doing this disqualifies you as a potential suitor.
Mystery talked about this in several interviews on podcasts from Love Systems. There is a substantial difference between a neg and a disqualifier. The classic neg is "nice nails, are they real? Oh they're nice anyway." The classic disqualifier is, "you and I could never get along, we're too much alike."
I don't think you understand disqualifiers. For example:
It's common knowledge that when opening a set, it's incredibly important to disqualify the girl you're interested as a potential lover.
No, you have that backwards. It is important to disqualifiy yourself to the girl so she does not think you are interested in her as a potential lover. This can make you a challenge, her charms aren't working on you, they work on all the other guys, why not you?
Neg theory has moved on to disqualification. You say we still use negs and then use disqualifiers as examples of negs.
[–]Thewindpickedup4 points 13 years ago [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link
This is exactly the point that I am helping to make. Negs ARE disqualifiers. They are nothing more than verbal statements of disinterest. Mystery (who coined the phrase) said this himself in the mystery lounge, yet people in the game still are mixed up to believe that there is a distinct difference between the two.
Hopefully this quote (most easily found on page 99 of the Venusian Arts Handbook) will clear things up for you guy.
"A neg is a qualifier. It is not an insult - just a judgement call on your part. You're not even trying to make her feel bad. It's the same as if you pulled out a tissue and blew your nose. There's nothing insulting about blowing your nose. You haven't outright rejected her. But at the same time, she will sincerely believe that you are not trying to impress her. This creates curiosity and makes you a challenge." - mystery in mystery lounge.
And when disqualifying a girl with a phrase such as the classic 'you're fun; too bad you're not my type," you are not disqualifying yourself from being a potential girl. You are disqualifying the girl from you range of interest.
For (a completely hypothetical) example, you walk in to a bar and see an HB9 chatting with her friends. If you walk up and say something that implies that YOU do not qualify to be with HER (as you're saying. 'disqualifying yourself from her field of potential suitors) then that is a demonstration of lower value and you will be blown out.
However, if you make a statement that disqualifies her from your group of potential lovers, you have become a challenging guy and she desires even more to requalify herself. This is precisely what a disqualification is inteneded to do.
And according to Nick Savoy (on page 65 of magic bullets), "a neg is a very strong disqualification tool." One cannot support disqualification but decry negging simply because the two are so related that often times what one person thinks of as a neg can double over in slightly different context as a disqualifiers and vice versa.
[–]Lead ModeratorThrowawayPUA 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Right, negs are disqualifiers, but not all disqualifiers are negs. I think you have some of these things backwards, like:
No, you're giving an IOD. You're taking yourself out of the loop, you're not taking her out. But I suppose you can view this in different ways. I just think understanding the real reason for disqualifiers makes a huge difference in performance with them.
[–]Thewindpickedup2 points 13 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link
Ok I can see how you're looking at it now. Your point of view makes sense, but I guess there are just a few ways to analyze and look at what's going on. I hadn't thought of your way before.
And I completely agree. Negs are a type of disqualifier. But I also feel that if someone believes in using a set of tools (disqualifiers), why would they want to throw out one of the most potent ones in the set (negs)?
[–]Lead ModeratorThrowawayPUA 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Well, you know that M3 and negging was targeted at top end women, who couldn't understand guys who weren't fawning all over them. The problem is when noobs generalize that to negging women of lower social status who will be hurt.
[–]CallMeAP 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
Best way to describe it to newcomers is that a few negs are your photon torpedoes. Fire them to blast down the bitch-shield, then proceed as regular.
Just make sure she has a bitch shield, otherwise you blow up the set! :)
[–]Lead ModeratorThrowawayPUA -1 points0 points1 point 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Um, no.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Any good vids that demonstrates proper negging?
[–]VMikeL -4 points-3 points-2 points 13 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link
Clarification on negging:
A neg is used to bring someones value down so yours is higher. A neg is personal, it's directed at someone, you cannot use a neg to work a group or a venue.
Personally I would rather increase EVERYONE's value, rather than bring someones down. Just sayin'.
[–]Thewindpickedup4 points 13 years ago [recovered] (13 children) | Copy Link
See, this is exactly the misunderstanding that i am talking about.
A neg in not intended to bring anyone's value down. All it does is show that you're not a needy AFC who pines for a woman's attention. All a neg does is bring your value up - not bring anyone else's down.
And I can tell you from personal field experience that negs are EXTREMELY effective in conjunction with group theory at practically any venue. One neg to one individual has the effect of causing everyone in the group to consider you as an individual of higher value. Try it. People listen to what you have to say, and it could just give you the success in the field that you've been looking for.
[–]VMikeL 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link
It actually does bring value down, It isn't neutral, nor does it bring your value up. I do not see how using a backhanded comment will reveal that you have a higher value.
Though your field experience makes sense. I am not against negs period, but I am against them being used when there is no understanding of their use (ie. "We went on a date and had fune. Do I keep negging her?" dafuq?).
[–]Thewindpickedup3 points 13 years ago [recovered] (11 children) | Copy Link
well perhaps the negs you use aren't neutral, but they were originally intended to be.
So as you can see, a true neg in fact does not lower anyone's value. Rather it is a demonstration of higher value on the part of the pick up artist. If your negs are lowering a girls value, you are doing something wrong.
However, you are completely correct in saying that there is a time and a place for negging. If you're still negging your girl when you go on a date, you're going to have a bad time (and fail miserably). The time for negs is only from the opening phase until the attraction phase. By the comfort phase, all negging should be over and done with.
[–]VMikeL 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
The issue I am actually seeing is your lack of qualification. You are given information, and without question your are taking it as truth, which would explain why you are such a fervent beleiver in negs (because you were told so). I think after the quote, this is exemplified by the fact that you think attraction works in universal "phases".
[–]Thewindpickedup2 points 13 years ago [recovered] (9 children) | Copy Link
Well, I can certainly see how it would come across this way. However (and I'll make an edit to the original post to state this), I wouldn't argue for negs if I didn't know for a fact that they work.
When I first started in the field, I had read a few different methods for PUA techniques, but I knew I had to experiment for myself to see what works. I was curious about the effectiveness of negging, so one weekend I went out on friday and Saturday. I opened about 8 sets each night in various locations (cold pick ups on the street, a few at random stores down town, and a few at a party).
The only difference between Friday and Saturday was that on Saturday I worked negging into my game.
The difference was astounding - especially as an rAFC. On Friday I had a 'good night' and closed three times out of 8. All three of which were number closes and none of which did I ever see again.
Saturday night was mind boggling. I closed 7 times out of the eight. I kiss closed twice (something I had hitherto never done). None of the numbers blurred either. I had HB9s and HB10s eating out of my palms! These girls that I would normally never have a chance with suddenly wanted ME.
Now I'm not saying that you'll always have that kind of success with negs, but I am saying that it is still one of the most valuable tools in any PUAs tool box.
But if you still don't believe me, go out there and try it for yourself :)
[–]VMikeL 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
My ultimate poiny is that negs are nowhere near as powerful or necessary as you make them out to be. Giving value is (in my opinion) the best thing possible. I am too liquired up to writ further.
[–]readonlyuser 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link
The fact is, when you talk to hotter girls, you sometimes need a way to get their attention. It's like pinching them to wake up from a dream, and you need it if you want to get anywhere.
If you never need negs, you're:
-Super high value in most/all facets (celebrity) or
-Not regularly talking to the most desirable women.
[–]VMikeL 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
This place is falling to shit as to how generalised shit is. Most of my friends are female, (preselection mofucker), and I talk to super hot girls ALL the time. Some are naturally up themselves, and it doesn't take long to make them realise why/what they've made a mistake with if they give me attitude (especially if I"m giving value), and if they're completely cool, there isn't a need to neg. So no. You are not right in categorising people in two two classes.
[–]readonlyuser 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
You sound drunk. I couldnn't make heads nor tails of what you were trying to prove. You hang out with hot girls? You don't need to neg your friends? Sober up and reply tmrw
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