My arguments that the feminist/feminazi differences are ones of degree, not kind; that feminism is an obsolete women's advocacy movement that should stop (in western democracies); and than Men's Rights is an advocacy movement that will hopefully one day also be similarly obsolete.

marktully · 2009-09-20T14:31:31+00:00

With all respect to nitesmoke, who seems to have good ideas and a solid thought process, I have to disagree on the "feminism is about equality" point, among others. Feminism isn't about equality just because feminists say it is.

"Feminism" is not a gender-neutral word any more than "chairman" is. You might as well call it "Women's Rights"... and people used to. "Women's Rights", "Women's Lib"...

"Gender Studies", "Gender Theory", "Gender Politics"... These at least have the potential to be neutral, to seek equality, and to focus on winning the peace.

There's some argumentation to this effect in posts above what I linked.

cryptogirl · 2009-09-20T22:22:25+00:00

First off, can't we just agree to set aside the word, "feminazi," in the interest of open and respectful dialog? I'll be more than happy to refrain from using "male chauvinist pig" and other such counter-productive epithets, if we can just have a friendly conversation.

To address your main point, I don't understand the argument that feminism is obsolete "in western democracies." Off the top of my head, I can think of a number of ongoing issues relevant to the women's rights movement, including:

*sexual violence *domestic violence *reproductive rights *open discrimination in the military, religion, and less open forms of discrimination in a number of other areas - especially employment.

I'm not arguing that these problems can simply be blamed on "men," they are products of a culture of which we are all a part. Nor am I arguing that men don't also have some legitimate beefs. However, I don't think that blaming women or feminism (the apparent position of many MRAs) makes any more sense than women blaming men for their problems.

Can't we focus less on semantics, blame, and out-victiming each other, and agree that in our culture, sex/gender - as well race, sexual orientation, class, etc. - are used to create an interlocking web of oppression that effects us all in negative ways?

Can't we agree that groups and individuals advocating for their rights is a good thing, and that civil rights is not a zero-sum game? Shouldn't we all benefit from increased rights and equality, regardless of the specific group gaining them?

Or am I courting the flame?

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