Wisconsin sisters accused of sexually assaulting man with pliers, forcing him to drink urine

[–]white_cloud16 points 14 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points 14 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

Chester Olson · Top Commenter · Saint Paul, Minnesota what a stupid story. What was the man doing there & those two women must have been bruts to force him to undress & drink pee? Really? I think they should just settle it on the Jerry Springer show.

Ted Tatro · Lancaster, Pennsylvania An 18 year old guy lets two girls with full bladders get the drop on him? Are you sure they didn't use tweezers instead of pliers on this dude?

Roger Hurd The guy must be pretty small if she used a needle nose pliers,,, just saying. Reply · 3 · Like · Follow Post · 7 hours ago

Bob Crouse · Top Commenter "Girls Just Want to Have Fun!" Hey, it's Wisconsin, what would you expect? Reply · 3 · Like · Follow Post · 9 hours ago

The fuck is wrong with people.

Edit: and

Presley Neubarth hahahahahaha Reply · Like · Follow Post · 18 minutes ago

all you do is LAUGH at this?

[–]white_cloud10 points 14 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Rape culture:

I would add that if we live in a rape culture, it is a culture which normalizes and condones and encourages the rape of men by women, not the other way around.

rape of men by women isn't considered rape under the law

a disclosure is usually followed by multiple assertions that, "Shit, wish I could get raped by some hot chick" or in more extreme cases like the salon owner in Russia, "he sure got what he had coming."

rape of boys is framed routinely as a problem because it makes those boys more likely to rape women as adults, not because it, you know, is a horrible experience for those boys

when an adolescent boy is raped by a woman, it's framed as seduction, and he's expected to have enjoyed it

if the rapist gets pregnant, the victim gets to enjoy the privilege of paying 18-21 years of child support to his rapist

sentences for female rapists of adolescent boys are usually pathetic, and good luck to any grown man who claims he was raped by a woman

Much more proof there of society normalizing and condoning female sexual violence against men and boys than the inverse, IMO.

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[–]white_cloud8 points 14 years ago [recovered] (24 children) | Copy Link

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[–]white_cloud7 points 14 years ago* [recovered] (13 children) | Copy Link

I honestly don't think that touching a penis and inserting something into a vagina are the same thing. If you forcibly touch a woman's vulva, you have not raped her, you have sexually assaulted her. Penetration and envelopment are rape. Squeezing with pliers is not envelopment, just like rubbing the exterior is not penetration.

You keep saying that this was "touching". This was not touching. His penis was grabbed, pulled, and twisted with pliers. That is not touching. Stop saying that it is.

Second, if you're going to decide what is and is not rape, you have to consider that male and female genitalia is different. Female genitalia is internal (mostly). Male genitalia is external. If the FBI definition of rape says that inserting an object into a vagina is rape (which it does), then there has to be a male equivalent of that action that is also recognized as rape, which recognizes that male genitalia is external, not internal.

Otherwise, you create the absurd scenario where a woman can grab, pull, and twist a man's penis until it bleeds, and that's not considered rape, but a man can insert pliers into a woman's vagina for five seconds, and that is considered rape.

A better way to put it is to say that grabbing a penis with pliers, or with any object, is envelopment with an object. Just like penetration of a vagina with an object is rape, envelopment of a penis with an object is rape.

[+][deleted] -6 points-5 points-4 points 14 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

That is not touching.

...Touch means come into contact. There was physical contact between the pliers and his penis. I'm just not bothering to copy and paste the whole description because, like I said earlier, "amount of damage you're dealing isn't relevant to the definition". Slamming a 4" thick rod into somebody's ass and poking the tip of your pinky finger in are both rape, there is no severity issue.

If the FBI definition of rape says that inserting an object into a vagina is rape (which it does), then there has to be a male equivalent

No, there doesn't. Like you said, genitalia are different. That means the definition for each gender doesn't need to be perfectly comparable. I just don't think that prodding somebody's crotch should be rape. But there is an external component, so why are you excluding it?

A better way to put it is to say that grabbing a penis with pliers, or with any object, is envelopment with an object.

So if a girl grabs my crotch she's a rapist. Excellent. What happens if she drops a jacket on my lap? Oh shit, her jacket is enveloping me, I got raped.

[–]white_cloud3 points 14 years ago [recovered] (10 children) | Copy Link

You yourself acknowledged that envelopment is rape. But there is also envelopment with an object. If it's rape to insert an object into a woman's vagina, then it's rape to envelop a man's penis with an object. You're surely not going to claim that envelopment is only envelopment when it's envelopment with a vagina, are you? That would be like saying that insertion is only insertion when it's insertion with a penis. And the law is clear that insertion of an object into a vagina is rape.

Envelopment with an object is rape. It has to be. Because if it's not, then insertion with an object can't be rape either.

The only question is what constitutes envelopment with an object. Is it envelopment with an object if a woman sticks a fleshlight on a man's penis? That's probably the most extreme form of envelopment with an object, since the penis would be completely enveloped. If sticking a fleshlight on a penis is envelopment with an object, then why is grabbing a penis with pliers not considered envelopment with an object?

Do you think that the law would make a distinction about whether it's insertion of an object if a man inserts a 12-inch dildo into a woman's vagina or if he inserts a number 2 pencil? I don't. I think that they would say that insertion is insertion, regardless of what or how big the object is.

The same should be true about envelopment with an object. Grabbing the penis with an object is envelopment.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

But there is also envelopment with an object

Why are you italicizing that as though I haven't considered it?

If it's rape to insert an object into a woman's vagina, then it's rape to envelop a man's penis with an object.

I disagree. When an object is inserted into a woman's vagina or anus it very closely emulates sex for her. Oral also applies for a penis because she's giving oral sex. Having pliers on your dick does not emulate sex. It is quite different.

Plus, if we want to be fair; if grabbing a penis with pliers is rape, why isn't pinching the vulva or a nipple with pliers rape? I don't care if it's mostly internal, there are still external parts.

You're surely not going to claim that envelopment is only envelopment when it's envelopment with a vagina, are you?

Bodily orifice. Oral, anal or vaginal sex is sex without consent. Prodding a penis is nothing like forced sex. Ramming a dildo into a woman closely emulates sex. I would rather remove the object-insertion definition from rape than add object-envelopment.

Envelopment with an object is rape. It has to be. Because if it's not, then insertion with an object can't be rape either.

...Why? Penises and vaginas are not the same thing. They don't need perfectly equivalent laws.

Do you think that the law would make a distinction about whether it's insertion of an object if a man inserts a 12-inch dildo into a woman's vagina or if he inserts a number 2 pencil? I don't. I think that they would say that insertion is insertion, regardless of what or how big the object is.

What is the point you are making here? Because envelopment is not all the same. Penetration is a dichotomy, either something went in or it didn't. But if somebody touched one spot on the penis with a twig or something, is it envelopment? What if they touch two spots? It is not so clear-cut.

Grabbing the penis with an object is envelopment.

By the dictionary definiton it isn't.

Also you've failed to explain why a woman that drops a jacket in my lap or prods my crotch shouldn't be a rapist.

[–]white_cloud2 points 14 years ago [recovered] (7 children) | Copy Link

Also you've failed to explain why a woman that drops a jacket in my lap or prods my crotch shouldn't be a rapist.

No, I pretty clearly explained that. You just ignored it. Just like you completely ignored my point about enveloping a penis with a fleshlight as being envelopment with an object. Do you believe that a woman sticking a fleshlight on a penis without a man's consent is envelopment with an object, and is therefore rape? It's a pretty simple question, yes or no.

If you say yes, then why is it envelopment with an object when it's a fleshlight, but not envelopment with an object when it's pliers or any other object that grabs the penis. Your assertion that it has to "very closely emulate sex" is bullshit, because sticking a sharp metal object into a vagina does not emulate sex any more than sticking a sharp metal object into your mouth emulates eating.

Dropping a jacket onto your lap is not envelopment, because there is no grabbing of your penis. "Prodding" your "crotch" is closer to envelopment, but is still not envelopment unless the penis is actually grabbed. Why is this so hard for you to understand? Someone grabbing your penis without your consent is rape. It's forced envelopment. Someone touching your penis is not rape. Touching is not grabbing.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

No, I pretty clearly explained that.

No, you didn't.

Do you believe that a woman sticking a fleshlight on a penis without a man's consent is envelopment with an object, and is therefore rape?

Your premise is invalid. It's being enveloped with an object, but that doesn't make it "therefore rape".

If you say yes, then why is it envelopment with an object when it's a fleshlight, but not envelopment with an object when it's pliers or any other object that grabs the penis.

Because pliers cannot envelop a penis.

It's forced envelopment.

Not if it isn't being enveloped. Which pliers can't do.

If you're naked and erect and somebody drops a jacket on your lap, it will likely surround most of the penis, enveloping it. No? Does there have to be somebody holding the object and forcibly wrapping it around? So if a guy's erection is vertical and you drop a very loose fleshlight on it, it's not rape?

I still don't understand why grabbing the vulva or a nipple is not rape.

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[–]white_cloud1 points 14 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh, so finally you admit it. You think that envelopment is rape only when it's a penis being enveloped with a vagina. You could have stated that at the outset, and saved me a lot of time.

...what the hell? At no point have I claimed or implied I think envelopment with an object should be rape. That's the entire argument. Pretty much every post responding to you has said it, why is this one time so special?

And as I've already said to you, envelopment should apply vaginal, anal and oral, just not objects.

Read the research on how women rape. They use objects.

That is irrelevant. Legally, they sexually assault with objects. We are arguing whether that should be considered rape. The fact that women sexually assault with objects doesn't change anything. Believe it or not, men grab women's breasts too, but that isn't proof fondling breasts should be rape.

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[–]c0mputar 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Title	Wisconsin sisters accused of sexually assaulting man with pliers, forcing him to drink urine
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	18
Comments	41
Date	February 1, 2012 2:39 AM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/p5itm/wisconsin_sisters_accused_of_sexually_assaulting/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/wisconsin-sisters-accused-of-sexually-assaulting.1028425 https://theredarchive.com/post/1028425

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