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IcarusLives Archive

View 13 posts and 88 comments by IcarusLives on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
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4

There are several cases in /relationships where the people are clearly just doing it wrong, but you don't want to forget about the falling in love factor. I believe that once love comes into the equation, PUA can only help you so much. It certainly gives you the confidence to be the alpha of the couple, not be bossed around, and not be afraid of breaking up if you're not getting what you want, but love really fucks with one's head and knocks out a lot of the logic that we apply on the field ever…
/r/seduction03/01/11 08:28 AM
1

I'd also argue that weight lifting isn't a big DHV. If you have results to show for it, then good, you don't even have to mention it, otherwise there's nothing "sexy" about weightlifting per se.
/r/seduction01/01/11 01:28 AM
3

The hug is really ballsy. How do you decide when a hug is appropriate and when it isn't?
/r/seduction31/12/10 11:06 PM
2

The "if that wouldn't offend you" line is gold.
/r/seduction31/12/10 01:44 AM
4

Yup.
/r/seduction30/12/10 09:09 AM
3

I'm in a similar situation myself, I'm very well adjusted in life, with tons of interests and broad experiences. I certainly still have plenty of space for more, but it's more than enough for DHV. I feel that you've certainly exceeded in many areas of life and what's holding you (and me as well) back is everything else. Basically no girl is going to drop to her knees and suck your balls because you ride a bike, but if you have the biker attitude, the masculine confidence stereotypically associat…
/r/seduction30/12/10 12:41 AM
2

You could definitely argue that if you are willing to wait 2 years for sex, you probably haven't had that much of it in your life and wouldn't be able to tell shitty sex from great sex.
/r/seduction30/12/10 12:26 AM
5

Also it should be noted that even after sex there's still no relationship until mutually agreed upon.
/r/seduction30/12/10 12:13 AM
18

Yeah dude, but she still has a vagina. "I don't read" vs. vagina, do the math.
/r/seduction29/12/10 07:41 PM
1

Dude, I had a cold too for the past two weeks! PUA high five!
/r/seduction29/12/10 09:08 AM
1

That's very true, almost every home has one, it's a good point.
/r/seduction29/12/10 08:50 AM
3

Figure Drawing: A bit of a lost art outside of the artist community, figure drawing is where it's at. You have a unique chance at spending time with a girl while drawing her, make her look amazing and then give her the drawing so she can look at it for weeks. She doesn't even need to have clothes on! Think Titanic, get the idea? All you need is a pencil and some paper. Not that many people can do this anymore, so I think it's a good direction to explore.
/r/seduction29/12/10 08:13 AM
8

Writing: Being in touch with your emotions, knowing how to express them on paper and in person is a big turnon for many women. There's a reason why women love artists, they know how to speak to them on an emotional level and how to stir feelings. I was told that there's nothing quite like a beautifully written letter for a girl who will keep it nearby and glance at it all day with a big smile on her face.
/r/seduction29/12/10 04:46 AM
2

I think you're onto something here. A friend of mine always says there's nothing hotter than a guy cooking a tasty meal for her. Shows effort and skill at the same time.
/r/seduction29/12/10 04:35 AM
1

I've been playing the guitar on and off for half a decade now, and can chime in a bit on the subject. Yes, it is sexy and cool. On the other hand, it's unarguably the most popular instrument in the western world and basically every guy I know "plays" the guitar. I don't fully agree that it can be played casually, unless we're exclusively talking about the innumerable three chord songs out there. I feel the instrument requires a massive time investment (1+ hours per day for years) to truly pay of…
/r/seduction29/12/10 04:09 AM
3

Do you actually have to be a boat owner yourself for this?
/r/seduction29/12/10 03:59 AM
2

I do tons of snowboarding myself, it's certainly fun and is pretty exciting once you get good at it, and something that's a lot of fun to do together. I have a thing for snowboarder girls too :) One downside is that in WA, kind of like in Canada, as you mentioned, absolutely everybody and their dog know how to ski/snowboard, so it doesn't quite set you apart. I honestly felt a few times that people went "big whooptee fucking do" when I mentioned it with excitement.. Are they just haters?
/r/seduction29/12/10 03:04 AM
1

It's certainly very assertive, I thought you'd just time bridge it until later, but it seems like you went for it right away. What is there actually to do at 1:30am besides fucking? Sounds like you "went out", how did that go?
/r/seduction28/12/10 09:27 PM
1

When did you start reading again? Did you stall somewhere and needed answers?
/r/seduction28/12/10 09:25 PM
1

The last part rings very true, shit will hopefully much clearer as things start working consistently.
/r/seduction28/12/10 09:24 PM
1

http://confidencejrny.blogspot.com/ It's mostly something I do to motivate myself and keep track of my progress, so that one day I can look back and see how far I've come.
/r/seduction28/12/10 09:17 PM
1

That does sound like a pretty solid rule of thumb after you have the basics down.
/r/seduction28/12/10 09:10 PM
3

His is actually a fair point. The last thing you want to happen is that you walk into a bar, go get a drink and then you spend forever looking for someone to talk to while people keep getting the perception that you're a loser because you have no friends. Basically you need to lock into a set ASAP when you get into a bar solo, and the longer that doesn't happen the worse off you look.
/r/seduction28/12/10 09:49 AM
5

I don't think we have enough context to be able to tell why she won't do it. Maybe with more information things would get clearer. Generally girls are quite willing to hang out with you if they're interested, especially if you've been talking for a while now. My best guess is that she's actually not interested, because sleep & chill is a bullshit codeword for not being that into you.
/r/seduction27/12/10 09:44 AM
2

Yeah ONE single comprehensive program that people should start with would be pretty great. I know Wygant has tons of resources on line and his book is very strong, so I feel that might be the the right direction to send beginners to when they need just a general overhaul of their attitude towards dating and approaching women. I feel that just being confident, assertive, easy-going, smiling and not obsessed with the end result makes a massive difference in one's success rate. All of the subtletie…
/r/seduction27/12/10 05:02 AM
6

Generally speaking the consensus is that if the girl is resisting beyond the 7-10 hours of comfort building time, you're not doing something right and it's not her fault. If she is really a unique snowflake that doesn't put out for a month, then you should not feel too bad about it and keep on dating 2-3 girls while she incubates. Nothing like knowing that you're in high demand and letting her feel jealous to speed up the process.
/r/seduction27/12/10 04:52 AM
5

So how exactly does this tofu-style entrance work? You walk into the bar and high five random strangers on your way to getting drinks?
/r/seduction27/12/10 02:22 AM
1

1) Yeah ultimately there's so much overlap among methods that it would be quite possible to summarize the key points in our own guide. I've written so many pages worth of notes in my OneNote over the past year that I feel I could easily overtake a mediawiki site all by myself. Just think what would happen if we were pool all of our resources together and do a proper wiki with tons of reference material, links to videos and examples, FRs and personal comments. It would be fucking glorious :) 2) V…
/r/seduction26/12/10 11:52 PM
1

One of the most difficult aspects to me is understanding the dynamic on those first five minutes. It's one thing to read him say "then go into your next routine" and another to actually see someone transition between stories and routines in a real world situation. I'm sure there are videos/audio clips of people opening and entertaining sets out there, I just haven't run into any yet.
/r/seduction26/12/10 09:27 PM
1

I'm not criticizing MM as a whole, we all know its contribution to the pool of PUA knowledge. All I was asking about were alternatives to memorized openers and rehashed stories that you can use to work on your DHV while in a set. Basically like most humans I can hang out with a group of people I just met, have fun and talk about random shit, but there's a big difference between that and actually saying something that will give you higher value in the eyes of the set. If there's no alternative to…
/r/seduction26/12/10 09:20 PM
2

I'm personally not a huge fan of the "Reading list for a beginner" post as it's cluttered, chaotic and doesn't truly help you identify what manuals you should pay attention to. The most you can get out of it is a list of about 20 books you should read, but no indication of the order of importance. I suggest that we have the most seasoned members pool together their expertise and identify a group of texts that they think are truly core to a beginner and explain what order they should be read in.
/r/seduction26/12/10 08:58 PM
2

Aah, it all makes sense now. <3
/r/seduction26/12/10 07:25 AM
8

The only thing that matters is if it's creepy to the girl and guy, it's their business. Let's not make these baseless judgments.
/r/seduction26/12/10 06:23 AM
1

Yeah.
/r/seduction25/12/10 10:32 PM
1

Yeah I think I should just leave the under 30 second stuff until a bit later when my game's tighter, I'm still new enough that even the basics are a challenge. It's a good tip though.
/r/seduction25/12/10 11:05 AM
2

1) Were the two of you isolated when you offered to watch the show at her place, or was that still with your friend around? 2) Did you have a backup plan in case she said no to your proposition or started questioning it? What if she teasingly said something like "Oh I don't know, what are you trying to do there?"
/r/seduction25/12/10 02:27 AM
1

I'd like to mention that some texts state that gesticulation is actually a plus. They say that if you can be loud and very expressive of your feelings, for example through gesticulation, you should go ahead and do it, as it shows you're a man who's in touch with his emotions and is not afraid of showing them (aka not shy).
/r/seduction24/12/10 07:46 AM
1

As someone who actually grew up in Italy, and is a pretty solid gesticulator, I wonder if this shit has been cramping my style all along.
/r/seduction24/12/10 07:28 AM
1

Awesome tips. Would you say that keeping tension as high as possible is also a good move if you want more than just a quick lay out of your dancefloor "partner"? Wouldn't all this tension want her to give you her number even more? It seems like it's exactly what happened in the OP's scenario.
/r/seduction24/12/10 06:38 AM
1

I have a somewhat similar issue when starting a conversation with a woman about something stupid. E. g., I don't care where you got your boots from, or what your favorite chai is, initiating a conversation like that feels fake and forced, but I guess if that's what it's going to take to initiate talking to a girl to get to knew her better, then I'm going to have to do it. I'm thinking with time, as I continue opening everybody around me, this form of interaction with strangers will become second…
/r/seduction24/12/10 06:11 AM
1

I agree that a lot of it is in my mind. I've just always seen "we're going to my place" as an offer for sex, and therefore if you tell someone too soon she'll pretty much have to reject you, unless she's ready to fuck.
/r/seduction23/12/10 07:05 PM
1

What I was mostly focusing on is the fact that she was ok with going to your place straight after your club meeting. I thought most women would assume that you're trying to murder them if you don't go out on a proper date first, unless she was already so turned on by you at the club that for days she could only think of running to your place and ripping your pants off with her mouth and fuck the shit out of you.
/r/seduction23/12/10 06:26 PM
3

Great FR!! How did you get her to come over to your place after she met you for just a short while at the club? I don't know if I missed something, but it seems like there was an extremely short amount of time you spent together in between when you first met and when sex happened.
/r/seduction23/12/10 11:31 AM
1

Also, I don't know about women, but I ONLY EVER get approached on the street if it's a bum asking for money, or some person trying to make me sign something. I get the feeling that we're simply not used to being approached in all of these locations where we're just trying to go from A to B, and so it's a lot easier to spook someone through an approach.
/r/seduction23/12/10 09:48 AM
1

Hello Seattle.
/r/seduction23/12/10 08:39 AM
1

Well this is funny, but all of my best friends are girls and we're pretty shamelessly open towards each other all the time. Basically girls themselves aren't an issue, it's almost exclusively my end goal that gets in the way and throws everything off. I think the big differentiator is whether inside your head you're planning to bone them or not, and if you start the conversation with that in mind, you're crazy anxious. Probably same reason why ugly chicks are not exactly hard to talk to.
/r/seduction23/12/10 07:30 AM
3

My relationship with women improved once I stopped sharing my feelings with them. From an evolutionary point of view, I'm the protector, they're not wired to give a shit about my feelings and feel attracted to me because I shared my weaknesses with them.
/r/seduction23/12/10 01:18 AM
1

Check out No More Mr. Nice Guy, it might help you quite a bit in your situation.
/r/seduction22/12/10 09:09 PM
1

Is there anything special I need to know about this whole 3+ girls situation you're describing? I mean, it has to take a lot of effort to keep all three interested in hanging out with you unless you actually do end up spending time on each.
/r/seduction22/12/10 09:43 AM
1

Maybe it's part of it. However I'd say that if you continuously expose yourself to interesting events you will have tons to talk about. Go do stupid shit, put yourself at risk, expose yourself to something new way outside of your comfort zone. Practice telling those stories to the people around you and you should be pretty solid when telling them.
/r/seduction22/12/10 01:53 AM
1

If the challenge is to turn her into a quick one night stand, then yeah it's maybe something worthwhile trying, but if you're planning to date a person like this, I think your life would be a nightmare. Most likely the first time you're on a date this dumb broad is going to yell at the waitress and make her cry and then make a scene at the restaurant because everybody else is an inferior human being and must bow to her. Now, find me a HB10 with proper fucking modesty and an interesting personali…
/r/seduction21/12/10 08:23 PM
1

sedditgirl is going to kick your ass.
/r/seduction21/12/10 08:16 PM
13

Tofu, you're sarging and going out with hot babes day and night, where are you going to find time to moderate? You're a crazy bastard.
/r/seduction21/12/10 08:14 PM
2

Asian women threw my scale off as well, thanks for confirming what I always suspected. Don't you find it hard to find someone attractive in the US now though? There are so few girls out there these days that truly care about their waistline, unless you're hanging out with models.
/r/seduction21/12/10 08:10 PM
2

So yeah, Tofu, I would call BS on this, but that probably because I don't want to admit that this shit is possible and within reach, if you work hard enough for it. You're a source of inspiration for all of us. Maybe you're going to be our first mPUA here sometime in the future ;)
/r/seduction21/12/10 08:08 PM
1

The merge is so brilliant, I'm going to use that big time. Thanks!
/r/seduction21/12/10 06:51 PM
1

So you're saying that if the girl is worried that she can lose me at any point (the scale is strongly tipping in my favor) she can potentially react negatively to a disqualifier? I believe I said it with the right tone and a big smile, I'd assume most people won't take that too seriously.
/r/seduction21/12/10 06:10 AM
1

Thanks Mouthpiece, your advice always shows plenty of patience and camaraderie :) Do you have any recommendations in terms of how to make first date conversations more interesting to everybody involved? Should I look into Juggler's philosphy?
/r/seduction21/12/10 06:08 AM
1

This is good advice, I definitely need a couple of these missions each week, such as spending one-two hours at a coffee shop talking to people.
/r/seduction21/12/10 05:58 AM
1

Chemistry is important for sure, but wouldn't you say it should be only important if you're trying to turn this girl into a date? If you're just trying to seduce somebody, it shouldn't really matter if they share your passion for mountain climbing or impressionist painting, you should be able to connect to them and attract them simply through confidence, body language and blabla. The kino is probably the key here. I'm not saying I should be already at that stage in my skills, but wouldn't having…
/r/seduction21/12/10 05:50 AM
2

So the whole point of a freeze out is to make it as positive as possible, like you don't really care either way? See, I'm trying to reconcile it with the "I'm going to go check my email then" method, and I just can't see that being "positive". Things are getting heated, she resists, and you just stop all of a sudden and go do some other shit. Doesn't that convey somehow that you're really upset about it? Also, if it's really cold outside, aren't you making her less likely to want to follow you?
/r/seduction21/12/10 03:37 AM
2

So when you say open random warmup sets, basically chat it up and be friendly and see if you can make friends with a few random groups standing around just for the sake of getting juices flowing. 1) Are you doing this to reduce anxiety or just as a warmup for your brain just like in improv? 2) Does it get better with time? Will I always need extensive warmup to be good? And yeah I definitely learned quite a few things from the night, good experience but I'll stick to my early 20s women as usual …
/r/seduction21/12/10 02:58 AM
1

Yeah as I was saying, I'm not pleased by being able to do approaches only if I'm drunk and don't care. What's the point, you're not learning anything.
/r/seduction21/12/10 02:52 AM
1

The first time yes, I agree I should have handled it better. I'm not sure what is considered a freeze-out in this case, besides just walking away somewhere else like I don't care and keep having fun. Should I have just not said anything? I've seen freeze-out used as last minute strategy to lower resistance in the bedroom, this situation is definitely different for me. I don't think I could have handled the "You think too much" part any better though (suggestions welcome of course), she was leavi…
/r/seduction21/12/10 02:40 AM
2

I guess it depends on the person, but I don't see the charm of sleeping with older women. I know I'll have plenty of time to do that as I get older, why rush it? 21 year olds won't fuck you forever.
/r/seduction20/12/10 08:57 AM
1

This is very reasonable. I honestly wish I could avoid it altogether, as I'm just not a huge boozer. I don't really get much out of it, and then having to spend extra hours at the gym to dig out the sixpack from under the beer vest is such a stupid use of one's time.
/r/seduction20/12/10 08:55 AM
1

Ideally whoever becomes a moderator should be a fairly successful PUA himself/herself, it would be sad to have two KJs in such position of authority. I don't know much about the two proposed moderators' personal experiences, but it sounds like they've seen their share.
/r/seduction18/12/10 03:09 AM
3

+1 for cheddar, he never seems to shoot down newbies with their newbish questions. Most others simply lack the patience of this guy. Lesbian's pretty cool too!
/r/seduction18/12/10 01:12 AM
1

I think there was something about this in The Game, where Mystery had a ridiculous answer to the "what's your job" question. This is a very core point imho, at what point do you stop being facetious and funny and at what point do you cut to the chase and seriously answer her questions? I think the answer is that it depends on each girl, some tolerate the absurd better than others, and ultimately you want to develop a style that's not too dry and yet not so joking that she gets tired of it. It's …
/r/seduction18/12/10 01:07 AM
2

I think one of the recent FRs here had an example of an alternative route you can take. When things were getting heated, the guy said something like: "Well, too bad you're not getting any sex tonight" which made the girl go crazy about it. I wonder if that this form of preemption is better than waiting for the freeze-out.
/r/seduction17/12/10 11:56 PM
1

Thanks for the advice! I was actually trying n.2 for a couple of weeks, it's a great guide and I feel that as I internalize it with time it will make a big difference. I'm still a bit awkward at kino timing, sometimes I'm off and the person is like "Ugh why are you touching me?" but I will get better with time. I'll have to look into n.1, I've been definitely trying to "talk to everybody" after reading Wygant's book, but as you said it's a long term commitment, it's something you have to become …
/r/seduction17/12/10 07:02 PM
2

Any tips for picking up at shows? You can barely hear yourself, everybody's staring at the stage and so on, it sounds rough.
/r/seduction17/12/10 08:01 AM
6

What is your tone when you say something like "Oh I've already friend-zoned you, sorry". Are you making clear that you're being teasing/facetious with a big smile on your face, or are you trying to sound serious about it?
/r/seduction17/12/10 07:53 AM
1

Do you have any examples of first messages you can share? You said you generally point out something interesting about their profile, e.g., how you also like a band they listen to. In my experience, unless you have something actually very relevant to say, the trick is more in how you say it than you what you say, so I'm curious how you phrase your messages in such a way to build interest. The most success I've had was when the girl and I had an experience in common, e.g. she had a picture at the…
/r/seduction17/12/10 04:50 AM
1

Awesome thread, would be great to add to the seddit megathread for future reference, so we can add more of these suckers to the list.
/r/seduction17/12/10 04:42 AM
1

KJ?
/r/seduction17/12/10 04:42 AM
2

Yes, it appears that ultimately all we care about is the final product, not so much how you got there, unless it's a good story. When it comes to PUA, unless you're Neil Strauss and you have a really good story to tell, then women will not really appreciate hearing about it.
/r/seduction16/12/10 07:34 PM
1

A couple at the very most, and it's daygame. Basically whenever I'm out doing anything, I see it as an opportunity to either talk to people or approach someone (that hasn't happened so far). I haven't done clubs/bars at all so far.
/r/seduction16/12/10 09:06 AM
2

I think you're somewhat of an outlier in your perception of the PUA community. Most of the women I know are pretty turned off or even creeped out by guys who work really hard on improving themselves or meeting women. Basically under no circumstance should you ever reveal that you exercise to stay fit, that you force yourself to do stuff outside of your comfort zone to become more interesting, and that you learn techniques to make your relationship with women more successful and exciting. Women g…
/r/seduction16/12/10 05:40 AM
1

Welcome! Looking forward to seeing your perspective. Got any stories of someone attempting pickup techniques on you, and you actually detecting it?
/r/seduction16/12/10 02:56 AM
7

Don't mind him occasionally putting his hand on your shoulder while looking away.
/r/seduction16/12/10 02:43 AM
1

Updated the post with the link to the post in question.
/r/seduction16/12/10 02:41 AM
1

You're right, sorry, I got you completely confused with HerAwesomeNight. Don't ask how :)
/r/seduction16/12/10 02:38 AM
1

I think I've had the most trouble with the "gradually work your way up" process. I'm obsessed with learning fast, but I know that rewiring oneself is a slow and gradual process, and so I often feel like I haven't achieved anything even though I might have come a long way. The talking to a cute girl experiment is worthwhile. I find it very hard to talk to a cute girl without my brain screaming that it's obvious that I'm trying to pick her up and she's going to get weirded out by it. I don't know …
/r/seduction16/12/10 01:18 AM
1

Thanks for the reply. The reason why I brought up the runway is because I kept reading younger women (20s) saying how they're grossed out by older guys who try to hit on them, and it gave me the feeling that if I don't do something about it now, I will be soon out of my prime and it will be too late for me to attract that age range. What's funny is that now I'm actually quite disinterested in the age range that I was very much into when I was a bit younger, so maybe as time goes on, my target ag…
/r/seduction16/12/10 01:13 AM
1

I feel there's a big difference between stopping someone for a random question, like asking for the time, and stopping someone to introduce yourself and tell them you're interested in them. The thing is, when you ask for the time, you're in and out, done, but when you're trying to get a close, it's completely open ended, it exposes you and your intentions, and can be anywhere between disastrous and great. Do you not agree that there's a difference?
/r/seduction16/12/10 01:09 AM
1

Do you have personal experience with working with others? I'm curious about what that would look like and how I can get the most out of it.
/r/seduction16/12/10 01:06 AM
1

First of all, I don't know why you assumed I haven't done any reading whatsoever. As I said in the post, I read a few books by some of the well known teachers, and several others that focus on charisma and socialization, for a total of maybe 10-15 books. I'm not intimately familiar with any of the gurus' styles because I didn't read a dozen books solely on Social Dynamics, NLB or self-hypnosis, but I've read enough to see the core points that are ultimately in common to all of the styles. I have…
/r/seduction16/12/10 01:06 AM
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