~ archived since 2018 ~
~ archived since 2018 ~
| Upvotes | Comment on | Subreddit | Date (UTC) |
|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | “If you really want to affect climate change, talk to women”A big part of climate change is getting rid of traditional farming. By "traditional", I'm assuming you mean industrial farming. There are plenty of arguments for including animals for meat as a key part of food-growing practices that are regenerative. However, intensive, industrial practices for meat production are an ecological disaster. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 03/11/21 09:54 PM |
| 22 | “If you really want to affect climate change, talk to women”Conservation used to be a concern for both men and women. When did "sustainability" come to be more popular with women than men? I'm not buying the argument in the article that it's because domestic violence goes up after extreme weather events. That connection feels like a really long bow to draw. But there's definitely something to the argument that it's about selling to the person who is most likely to make buying decisions for the home. Most of the "sustainability" industry has been about ge… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 03/11/21 11:23 AM |
| 2 | Why does men's issues get ignored largely in societies?A common trope in former Eastern Block countries is that so many men died in WWII that the surviving men and the next generation of men were coddled by their wives and mothers, which in turn has caused a degeneration of masculinity which must now be reversed. Could it be that men in those countries are actually dealing with intergenerational trauma, and this is manifesting in dysfunctional behaviour as well as counterproductive, historical ideals about "how men should be". Not discounting the id… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 02/11/21 11:24 PM |
| 4 | Progressive Feminism and Conservative Traditionalism are two sides of the same coin when it comes to their views of male behaviour.I think this is an important point to respond to, but I don't have time for a long reply today. It seems to me that the problems come in because of 2 things: One is the way individual boys and men are often treated by being put through these systems of protecting civilisation. Basically it sucks for a lot of, even most, men. I also think skirt_douglas' point about warfare comes into it. The other is that women are no longer able to be used as the "graduation prize" in this system, not least beca… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 31/10/21 08:51 PM |
| 11 | Do not send a man to do what you would not send a woman to do.It's really sad that one has to highlight how something would affect women, to bring any attention to issues affecting men. This put me in mind of the famous line in the film adaptation of A Time To Kill in 1980s Mississippi. The lawyer tells a graphic story to the jury about a young girl being brutally abducted, raped and beaten, then finishes with, "Now imagine she's white". Workplace safety is/was a critical function of unions, but this is an example of how we still refuse to apply a gendered… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 30/10/21 11:12 PM |
| 2 | Sperm extracted after death. Is this raping a dead man?I agree "donor" isn't a perfect word for this type of scenario, because it could imply consent. "Sperm producer"? As for traditional, did you read the article? The couple were unable to conceive that way and were looking at other options before he died. Nevertheless, as I stated, we have only her word on that, which I don't think is satisfactory evidence to access his gametes after his death. | /r/MensRights | 30/10/21 08:56 PM |
| 10 | Sperm extracted after death. Is this raping a dead man?I'd say "rape" is a little extreme. In this particular case, you get the impression that the late sperm donor would have consented, but I think it's something that should have rules around the sperm donor giving explicit consent. That the article doesn't go into the question maybe demonstrates that we don't take it very seriously as a society. | /r/MensRights | 30/10/21 02:44 AM |
| 17 | I cried when I found this sub.I'm also curious. What is your ideal sub for male advocacy? | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 29/10/21 01:45 AM |
| 3 | "New dads are 'losers' if they take 6 months paternity leave, prominent venture capitalist says" | We imprison ourselves under ancient ideas of what it means to be a man.my point is, this was not an attack on the concept of a father taking paternity leave Except it was, even if we take into account the context. Look at this statement in his tweet: "In the old days men had babies and worked harder to provide for their future - that’s the correct masculine response." That is a statement of universality, not specific to the Buttigieg case. He's welcome to his opinion but if you call other men losers for taking parental leave, you're allowed to be called out on it, … | /r/MensRights | 29/10/21 12:06 AM |
| 1 | "New dads are 'losers' if they take 6 months paternity leave, prominent venture capitalist says" | We imprison ourselves under ancient ideas of what it means to be a man.What bothers me is how this guy justifies it as a "traditional" view. The notion that men should be away from their kids most of the time is very modern, from a historical perspective. Outside of fishing and mining communities, it only became a standard thing following the first industrial revolution, and even then it still wasn't universal. It was cemented with the post-war nuclear family emphasis. As we head back down from the unsustainable high of the 20th century, we'll probably find the hom… | /r/MensRights | 28/10/21 11:58 PM |
| 1 | "New dads are 'losers' if they take 6 months paternity leave, prominent venture capitalist says" | We imprison ourselves under ancient ideas of what it means to be a man.I do feel that some positions should not allow either sex to take time off for parental leave. The counter-argument is that men in these "important" positions are also seen as setting the precedents and standards for other men. If it doesn't first happen there, it may never happen for the factory worker. But I will admit that the situation with Buttigieg is a bit of an outlier. He hasn't even been in his current job long. | /r/MensRights | 28/10/21 11:02 PM |
| 4 | "New dads are 'losers' if they take 6 months paternity leave, prominent venture capitalist says" | We imprison ourselves under ancient ideas of what it means to be a man.OK, but your problem is with parental leave in general. If we had a world where everyone, both men and women, had enough money to quit their jobs and take the time off, then reapply for their jobs, and then work their way back up in those jobs, then what do you think about the importance of time fathers spend with their children when they are young, vs. time mothers spend? | /r/MensRights | 28/10/21 10:21 PM |
| 1 | "New dads are 'losers' if they take 6 months paternity leave, prominent venture capitalist says" | We imprison ourselves under ancient ideas of what it means to be a man.There are some things that feminists get right, like encouraging companies to give men equal paternity leave I'd just note that it's not primarily motivated by a view of the importance of fathers in children's lives, but to reduce the imbalance of parenthood affecting women's careers more than men's. If there were a cheaper way to achieve the latter goal, it would have been done that way. Nevertheless, this is an example where "trickle down equality" sometimes works out for men. | /r/MensRights | 28/10/21 10:11 PM |
| 2 | "New dads are 'losers' if they take 6 months paternity leave, prominent venture capitalist says" | We imprison ourselves under ancient ideas of what it means to be a man.Who's "they"? This is a male venture capitalist calling men who take paternity leave losers. That's wrong. He was trying to be provocative and the context was something of an extreme case, as pointed out by another commenter here. Anyway, another male CEO called him out on it (as he should be) and he backtracked on the language later, as explained in the article. | /r/MensRights | 28/10/21 10:07 PM |
| 1 | I honestly feel that the New norm has become. That men put each other down more then they push each other up.Sorry to hear that you're having such a rough time socially. I do agree with you that men generally need to be better to eachother as well. (I personally think our current culture is the perfect storm for damaging men's relationship building - technology, economy, lack of structured community.) One good bit of advice my dad gave me was to "be your own man". I found it very unhelpful in my teens and early 20s when I just wanted to be liked by others, but I now realise the wisdom of it. As men, th… | /r/MensRights | 27/10/21 10:34 PM |
| 3 | I honestly feel that the New norm has become. That men put each other down more then they push each other up.It does sound like you're a bit unlucky with the other men around you at this time of your life. Most guys are still working out their personalities in their 20s, and that can mean a lot of posturing and inconsistency. Maybe try looking for an alternate social sphere you can explore, perhaps through a hobby, sport, faith group, etc. Do you have older friends that you lost touch with that you could reconnect with? As for online videos, most of those are not going to be a source of encouragement o… | /r/MensRights | 27/10/21 09:58 PM |
| 4 | Can someone please explain why people think we’re misogynistic?It's just somehow seen as none-issue. I think this is because feminism already has a store of respectability thanks to the hard work of actual women's equality workers over the last century (and I know people can question and debate the difference between those two things), and the obvious work that still needs to be done in many parts of the world. Subs like that and unpleasant people on twitter are certainly doing their bit to burn up that store of respectability, though. It won't last forever… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 27/10/21 09:12 PM |
| 6 | Who is “men”?men need to do this themselves and not rely on women's help I think it depends on the specifics. I agree that women should be able to support men's activism, but it still needs to be male-led. I can't think of a worse image for male advocacy than a bunch of guys complaining that women won't get on board. I think one way that men's activism differs from women's is that it flies against traditional male gender expectations for men to give a shit about ourselves, to fight for our own issues. We're … | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 27/10/21 05:04 AM |
| 8 | Can someone please explain why people think we’re misogynistic?I guess my definition of "conservative" has more to do with erring on the side of opposing changes, especially social changes. What we call "right wing" in a lot of developed nations today is a mix of facile libertarianism and financial policies that, on the surface, appear to be about decentralisation but actually amount to crony capitalism. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 27/10/21 03:47 AM |
| 19 | Can someone please explain why people think we’re misogynistic?Are you saying that fascist symbols and rhetoric are a conservative thing? I'm not conservative but that doesn't ring true from what I've seen. Maybe you mean "extreme right-wing"? | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 27/10/21 03:26 AM |
| 35 | Can someone please explain why people think we’re misogynistic?Sure, but it's also a response to a trend that anyone can observe in a lot of spaces claiming to be for men's advocates or activists. Without moderation and a clear standard of behaviour and discourse, they can and often do become a haven for some actual woman haters and men whose every post and comment obsesses about women. If feminism were still a small nascent movement in today's era of social media and Internet, it would have exactly the same problem. Can you imagine the rage and misandry of… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 27/10/21 03:17 AM |
| 87 | Can someone please explain why people think we’re misogynistic?I think a lot of it is because this sub doesn't toe the feminist line on every point, which is ironic since many of us aren't even particularly anti-feminist. For some people, feminism owns all decent and valid gender-related activism. So the only kind of men's activism that is safe or productive is the kind that uses feminist terminology and concepts uncritically. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 27/10/21 02:11 AM |
| 13 | Who is “men”?Yeah, the whole phrasing of men "taking responsibility" is very messy and far too easy to abuse. I was frustrated when I heard someone on a pro-feminist men's sub distinguish women's and men's activism as follows: Women's activism was a fight for equality, freedom, etc. Men's activism is like the host of a really messed up party waking up with a bad hangover and having to apologise to everyone. The problem with that metaphor should be obvious: Today's men are not the hosts of the terrible party … | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 26/10/21 11:48 PM |
| 4 | Leftist meme made me react a bit but I'm wondering what to answermen occupying all political power, leadership roles and influential positions in almost every field.. be it education, academia, various scientific arenas (both hard and soft sciences), religion, economy, culture, history.. of course, this status doesn’t come without a price as most dangerous, physically and mentally taxing jobs like construction and many others are occupied by men as well. Not to mention, war drafts. I've just been responding to someone who sees patriarchy as the source of all … | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 26/10/21 09:52 PM |
| 7 | The Mediocre White ManI haven't heard that one, but one I often hear on the news is "pale, male and stale", in reference to a lack of diversity among politicians, etc. I think it's pretty offensive, and I think that would be readily recognised if it were targeting any other group. | /r/MensRights | 26/10/21 09:26 PM |
| 1 | Currently sat in a lecture titled ‘women and men’s health’ 2 hours in with 10 minutes left and men’s health has yet to be mentionedDo you agree or disagree with the main thesis of the book? | /r/MensRights | 26/10/21 09:58 AM |
| 3 | Fathers End Series of Brawls by Supervising at Louisiana High School. It's the "dad look" that does it, apparently.I believe this was one of the insights from the men who first coined the term back in the 80s/90s, before it was co-opted and its meaning tinkered with over the last couple of decades. | /r/MensRights | 26/10/21 01:03 AM |
| 3 | Currently sat in a lecture titled ‘women and men’s health’ 2 hours in with 10 minutes left and men’s health has yet to be mentionedIt's a pity this comment is being downvoted because you and OP are both right. It's true that men's health issues remain under-recognised and under-resourced. It's also true that the blame for this can't be leveled just on "women". Scenarios like OPs are just galling because they reinforce the experience among many men that, even in an area like health, anything focused on "men and women" or "gender" still typically translates to a focus on women, unless it's something Bad about men or masculini… | /r/MensRights | 26/10/21 12:00 AM |
| 7 | Currently sat in a lecture titled ‘women and men’s health’ 2 hours in with 10 minutes left and men’s health has yet to be mentionedThen just call the lecture "women's health". Males account for 62% of premature deaths in my country, including 4 out of 5 heart deaths under 65. Men are 30% more likely to die of cancer than women. Males experience a greater share of "disease burden" than females: 54% to 46%. For "fatal burden of disease", it's 58% to 42%. That's before getting to mental health and suicide. So I guess all that knowledge about male anatomy has really given men an advantage. | /r/MensRights | 25/10/21 10:25 PM |
| 2 | Why is breast cancer (something that affects mostly women) the only cancer that gets an entire month of awareness?Yeah, maybe be supportive instead of sarcastic. | /r/MensRights | 25/10/21 10:07 PM |
| 3 | Why is breast cancer (something that affects mostly women) the only cancer that gets an entire month of awareness?It's big in Australia too, at least before COVID lockdowns. | /r/MensRights | 25/10/21 10:03 PM |
| 5 | Why is breast cancer (something that affects mostly women) the only cancer that gets an entire month of awareness?Movember's actually pretty big in my country (at least prior to COVID lockdowns). It does get mentioned in mainstream media and it got to a point where you'd even see local fundraising flyers in pubs and cafes. It encompasses a couple of other men's issues too, like suicide. | /r/MensRights | 25/10/21 10:02 PM |
| 4 | Currently sat in a lecture titled ‘women and men’s health’ 2 hours in with 10 minutes left and men’s health has yet to be mentionedFair feels like oppression when youve been treated favorly before. "Fair" is a 2 hour lecture about "women's and men's health" that only talks about women's health? | /r/MensRights | 25/10/21 09:52 PM |
| 10 | Currently sat in a lecture titled ‘women and men’s health’ 2 hours in with 10 minutes left and men’s health has yet to be mentionedReminds me of when I was studying education and a guest lecturer (and yes, she was a self-proclaimed feminist) did the "gender" context lecture as part of a series of "educational contexts". This was at a time when it was first becoming apparent that schools weren't working for boys overall as well as they were for girls - the problem has only become worse since then. She proceeded to talk only about girls for the entire lecture. The only mention of boys was to dismiss the problem because "men h… | /r/MensRights | 25/10/21 09:46 PM |
| 3 | examples media female on male violenceThe worst part is that these examples aren't even that old, only 10 years. This guy has a video on the topic with lots of examples, though I don't necessarily agree with all the points he makes in his videos. I don't think I've seen examples in the last 5 years, since sexual assault (of women) became a big public conversation again. I wonder if the whole topic has made comedy scriptwriters so uncomfortable that they don't even want to touch it when men are victims either. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 25/10/21 09:24 PM |
| 6 | Re: My previous thread on "Small Dick Energy"we use the expressions relative to what you tease each others for OK, so you're treating men as a monolith. I'm telling you, as a man, that your use of that expression is harmful. It's also harmful if another man uses it, or if a nonbinary person uses it. It's harmful if the intention is to call out some insecurity. It's harmful if the intention is to actually tell someone they have a small penis. The intention doesn't matter because, by using it, you're reinforcing a wrong idea that you yoursel… | /r/MensRights | 24/10/21 09:20 PM |
| 6 | Re: My previous thread on "Small Dick Energy"I think you're still missing the point. The very use of the phrase perpetuates the idea that a man should even be ashamed of having a small penis. So does the suspicion that a guy who may feel the need to express masculinity in a certain way must be compensating for having a small penis. | /r/MensRights | 24/10/21 09:35 AM |
| 3 | Re: My previous thread on "Small Dick Energy"There's also LeftWingMaleAdvocates if you want less feminist supervision than menslib. | /r/MensRights | 24/10/21 09:29 AM |
| 1 | Are things getting worse for men, staying stagnant, or just not progressing at the same pace as things are for women?Australia | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 23/10/21 08:54 PM |
| 8 | Are men the enemy of women's reproductive rights?I was thinking the other way. If men could get pregnant, there would be an abortion booth on every corner because those men would be under so much societal pressure to get back to work. Much like now, there would be little respect for a man having to take time off work to raise a child, and no countenancing of the idea that someone else (whether family, business or government) would make it financially feasible for him to do so. I guess it just shows the limitations of fantastical hypothetical s… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 22/10/21 10:30 PM |
| 1 | Do you guys consider yourself anti feminist?If they don't actively try to stop genuine men's advocacy, I don't have an issue. There are also some useful concepts and ideas that can be adapted from a movement with 50+ years of thinking into gender issues. | /r/MensRights | 21/10/21 11:32 PM |
| 5 | Do you think womens mental health is taken more seriously than mens mental health?Check if the statistics are female attempts per year, or females who attempt per year. As far as I know, we only have stats for the former, not the latter. Since, men are more likely to "succeed", this would also affect the comparative stats. The good news is that the much higher suicide incidence among men is starting to be taken more seriously in some countries, with specific programs for men in identified industries, and public awareness campaigns. Where this has happened, it is usually becau… | /r/MensRights | 21/10/21 11:24 PM |
| 4 | A bit off topic, but I think Aragorn is a wonderful role model for men and I am thankful for Tolkien and Viggo MortensenI'd say Legolas and Gimli break that trope VERY hard, as do each of the hobbits. Yes, I think the hobbits do through the films. Although, once again, I'd point to what we see of Sam at the very end of the last film. Frodo leaves ("dies") and the last images we get of Sam are... him spending time with his long-term friends Merry and Pippin, with whom he went through enormous trials? No, it's just Sam getting on with the standard thing we expect men to do - having a wife and kids. EDIT: I didn't a… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 21/10/21 10:20 PM |
| 1 | A bit off topic, but I think Aragorn is a wonderful role model for men and I am thankful for Tolkien and Viggo MortensenI'm glad to hear that the books explore his character quite differently, but I think my point still stands as far as the films go. I too was moved by Boromir's death, the way Aragorn forgives him and restores his honour. But, unfortunately, I don't think it breaks any stereotypes for men from a film storytelling perspective. It's essentially a higher-brow version of the buddy cop Dead Partner trope. Two men can't just go through stuff together, form an emotional bond and then go forward as close… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 21/10/21 09:54 PM |
| 6 | Are things getting worse for men, staying stagnant, or just not progressing at the same pace as things are for women?In my country there's a lot of talk around men and mental health, that it's more out in the open than before, less taboo, etc. You get more male public figures like sports stars talking about their mental health. There's also a few specialised services in the area of male mental health and prevention of male suicide, but they're still quite small. I'm hopeful but I think real progress remains to be confirmed. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 21/10/21 09:48 PM |
| 13 | A bit off topic, but I think Aragorn is a wonderful role model for men and I am thankful for Tolkien and Viggo MortensenI'm very reluctant to pick out specific characters from LOTR as an ideal role model because they tend to represent different archetypes but not a whole person. Although Aragorn has the traits you point out, he doesn't challenge the lone male hero stereotype - at least in the films - because no one is his equal. He has moments with the rest of the fellowship, with the hobbits, with Gandalf, an important moment of connection with Boromir, and he has a female partner in Arwen, but ultimately he sta… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 21/10/21 09:30 PM |
| 6 | More Men Than Women Are Now Single. It's Not a Good SignYou have no idea why women are rejecting men. The article itself states "an ability to provide financially is still a more prized asset in men than in women". It then goes on to speculate that "women may be going to college in greater numbers because it helps them attract a partner". The implication being "a partner who is also in college". | /r/MensRights | 21/10/21 01:59 AM |
| 3 | Men’s rights questionPeople looking to discredit men's advocacy often say that male advocates are hypocritical like this. Another example is that "MRAs" bemoan the high proportion of men in dangerous jobs or that only men are drafted, but then the same people have fought to keep women out of those professions. It's quite simply a conflation of TradCon beliefs with male advocacy. The two groups are not the same, even if there's some overlap for some people. | /r/MensRights | 20/10/21 10:37 PM |
| 2 | The 'Equality' blues: Feminists cry foul when boys' netball team wins girls' tournament. Feminists hate it when their own rules come back to bite them in the ass. They don't want equality, they want to be treated as if they're superior. It's always been about attaining power and privilege.A bit of context too: In Australia, netball is/was traditionally a "girls' sport", and it still has that image for many people. It's what the girls would tend to play at school when the boys were playing football or basketball. Recently, there's been a lot of media attention to new women's football leagues. Promoters of netball are trying to change its female-dominated image by increasing male participation in their sport. As skymonstef says, the ultimate goal here was to try to get a male comp … | /r/MensRights | 20/10/21 10:26 PM |
| 1 | No more dumb dadsThe problem arises when these characters have been around for so long and have become so numerous, outnumbering fictional dads who are strong, capable, and wise I think you can actually extrapolate this to a lot of cultural artifacts from the last 30-40 years. The common theme is irony, satire, iconoclasm and catharsis. That stuff is fun, but it's like acid that eats away at actual culture. Sincerity is preserved only for causes that are deemed worthy. Eventually, people are so hungry for genuin… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 20/10/21 10:00 PM |
| 1 | Growing Number of Uneducated, "Lone, Broke" Men Deemed Threat to SocietyYou agree that men are "inherently evil"? | /r/MensRights | 19/10/21 11:43 PM |
| 21 | No more dumb dadsIn my mind, the issue isn't about one gender or the other being offended. It's about the dismantling of a cultural idea that men are less suited to parenting, less capable and less trustworthy when with children. In your particular case the answer to that question is not in doubt, which is great. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 19/10/21 10:48 PM |
| 3 | Would more men take a ‘use it or lose it’ paternity leave?Article is blocked for me, but I think we can't expect most men to take advantage of a "use it or lose it" scheme if the pay does not come close to matching their salary. The whole point of parental leave with a "use it or lose it" component is to overcome the cultural breadwinner imperative, so schemes like Canada's where the standard rate is 55% salary must seem like a pointless token gesture in many households that would not stay above water if the breadwinner (often the dad) were to take it. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 19/10/21 10:26 PM |
| 5 | No more dumb dadsI'm curious whether you think that advertising law has worked in the UK? We didn't copy it in my country but my observation is that the trope was already dying anyway, at least in general advertising for home products, etc. I feel like the law came in just too late to make a real difference. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 19/10/21 10:08 PM |
| 17 | No more dumb dadsDo we think there's signs of this turning around as we hit the 2020s? I'm assuming that we can still compare family sitcoms - the genre seems a lot less universally popular than it was in decades past. People now cite hugely popular kids cartoons like Australia's Bluey to suggest that media representations of involved fathers are becoming much more positive. Johnny Rose (Schitt's Creek) is neither inept nor dumb, and his character arc is about reconnecting with his family while regaining his own… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 19/10/21 09:55 PM |
| 5 | how would you fight against the "men should fight and make their own movement"This is a really tough question for me. In the second half of the 20th Century, you can see a series of men's movements (both positive and negative) that have started and then fizzled. I'd like to believe that Feminism is now about and for men too, that it has somehow transformed into basically Egalitarianism in everything but name. But I'm yet to be convinced, and every so often I'm reminded that it's not. Both MRAs and Feminism contain some proportion of reactionaries, extremists and bad faith… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 18/10/21 12:04 AM |
| 19 | The Persecution of Gay Menit has to have something to do with the idea that male sexuality is threatening, while women's is not More than just threatening, I think it's also the idea that male sexuality is Bad - unpleasant, dirty, corrupting. Traditionally, the man deflowers the woman and removes her Purity. Gay men innately subvert this idea by desiring the male form, by enjoying masculinity for something other than its utility, and by celebrating male sexuality in and of itself. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 17/10/21 10:07 PM |
| 12 | The Persecution of Gay MenPeople often make a distinction here, with those phenomena referred to as "situational homosexuality". It's observed that in prison settings, there is often an open power or domination dynamic (not just a fantasy fetish), where the man in the "active" role is seen as exerting power and status over the man in the "passive" role. Of course, there's also a lot of rape of men in this type of setting. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 17/10/21 09:25 PM |
| 3 | The state of videogames and the impact on boys and young menSorry for the delay in reply. I guess we're probably in different timezones. I think there's some truth and some false in the way you're feeling. The false bit is that video games are just for kids or young adults. Many people in their 30s and 40s enjoy them as a hobby. It sounds like it's partly a form of escapism for you, and I don't think there's anything immature about that, any more than someone who reads a lot of books or watches movies for escapism. The bit where there might be some kerne… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 16/10/21 10:16 PM |
| 1 | why are pro male spaces, or make only spaces met with so much friction?We'll have to agree to disagree. The scientific insights of recent decades help us to understand the implications of humans being animals. This is very useful - it helps us understand why people have certain drives and responses - but it doesn't complete the picture of humanity. The ontological question remains and that's what we seem to disagree on: we are animals, but are we just animals? | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 16/10/21 06:03 AM |
| 1 | Why is "but men are the majority of perpetrators" brought up when talking about male victims?I'm not sure what you thought I would take issue with in that, or how it relates to my comment. EDIT: although I hate the terminology of TM. I consider it highly counterproductive. | /r/MensRights | 16/10/21 03:50 AM |
| 1 | Why is "but men are the majority of perpetrators" brought up when talking about male victims?Here's where I think the problem is: Right now, pretty much the only thing men are being told is to acknowledge that they're the problem. It's like this "conversation" is stuck on a perpetual loop, and I don't think a tiny movement like MRAs are the cause of that loop. "Men need to step up and stop other men hurting women." "Men need to face up to the fact that they have a problem with violence." "Men are the absolute fucking worst." Yes. We get it. Men aren't in a good place right now. Men are … | /r/MensRights | 15/10/21 10:26 PM |
| 2 | The state of videogames and the impact on boys and young menIf you don't mind me asking, why do you feel shame about playing video games? | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 15/10/21 10:08 PM |
| 1 | why are pro male spaces, or make only spaces met with so much friction?its the one that determines the rest of your behaviors I'm not just trying to be contrarian, but I think this is really reductive. I don't necessarily think you're taking it this far, but I really oppose this creeping idea that all of our human achievements, all our activities, our artwork and music, our culture, spirituality and philosophy, all of it is mere obfuscation to cover up some raw sexual imperative of "I want to get with this chick." (And this is not to put down sex or the sexual act … | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 15/10/21 10:05 PM |
| 3 | In ‘The Last Duel,’ Matt Damon and Ben Affleck Want You to Know They Know Men Are BadI feel you. A lot of protestant churches do men's this and men's that. Some examples are better than others, but a lot of it ends up about being a better husband (if you're married) or not masturbating (if you're single). | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 15/10/21 09:18 AM |
| 2 | why are pro male spaces, or make only spaces met with so much friction?Thanks for sharing your experience. I've occasionally felt the same in some traditional male spaces but not all. I can't relate to many popular traditional male activities in Western culture (fishing, golf, talking about sports). But I have found other activities that work better for me. Gradually, I've developed a way to put up with the kind of "prickly" men who put on all sorts of gruff airs. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 15/10/21 07:32 AM |
| 8 | why are pro male spaces, or make only spaces met with so much friction?I disagree that courtship is the only role that matters. Fathers groups, for example, are incredibly useful for men doing that role, especially when parent groups may not be welcoming to men. People benefit from all sorts of different groups and activities that have nothing to do with courtship. Even birds sometimes sing together because they enjoy it. If animals can, why not humans? | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 15/10/21 07:25 AM |
| 1 | How can we celebrate International Men's day(19 November).International Mens Day. | /r/MensRights | 15/10/21 05:16 AM |
| 16 | A response to Michael KimmelFor example, men are dramatically over-represented in all those hazardous occupations - but every single time women have sought entry into those occupations, men have vigorously opposed their entry. Once again, that contradiction: on the one hand, MRAs believe men shouldn’t be “forced” to do all the dangerous jobs; on the other hand, they also believe that women shouldn’t (and are probably ill-qualified to) invade men’s territory. There's also a subtle moving of the pieces here as Kimmel swaps b… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 15/10/21 02:39 AM |
| 4 | In ‘The Last Duel,’ Matt Damon and Ben Affleck Want You to Know They Know Men Are BadYou have to actively, pre-emptively and repeatedly denounce the behaviour OK, maybe I'm being too literal, but condemning "something primal" is not condemning behaviour. It is a condemnation of being. You can't come back from that. It is saying that men are, by nature, bad / evil. There is no other way I can see to interpret it. It's not new for people to put performance of morality above what is actually right. Has it ever been effective, transformative or helpful for growth to isolate a partic… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 15/10/21 02:25 AM |
| 4 | In ‘The Last Duel,’ Matt Damon and Ben Affleck Want You to Know They Know Men Are BadYeah. It occurs to me that these are the same two men who made an incredible movie about one man helping another man heal from trauma (Good Will Hunting). To go from that to this... | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 15/10/21 12:31 AM |
| 7 | In ‘The Last Duel,’ Matt Damon and Ben Affleck Want You to Know They Know Men Are BadIt's almost like Feminists have no clue what characteristics make up good Masculinity. I think a lot of people really don't. We have a lopsided public conversation where bad things are attributed to men as a group, while good things are attributed to humans as a group. It's possible to be consistent with this if you're a gender abolitionist, but very few people can hold that view without hypocrisy. Traditional masculinities (as positive or negative social phenomena) were like brittle constructio… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 15/10/21 12:27 AM |
| 2 | How can we celebrate International Men's day(19 November).Technically, I think IMD was invented to focus on positives rather than negatives, but I don't see any reason why we should stick to that any more. IMD also falls during Movember, so it's possible to tie it into advocacy around suicide that way too. | /r/MensRights | 14/10/21 11:56 PM |
| 3 | Why is "but men are the majority of perpetrators" brought up when talking about male victims?Great response. Male advocates exist because we're finally acknowledging that there's stuff that disproportionately affects men - and there always has been! - not just as a reaction to women's advocacy. | /r/MensRights | 14/10/21 11:52 PM |
| 16 | why are pro male spaces, or make only spaces met with so much friction?It probably depends on the specific purpose, and whether you mean "only x gender allowed" or just "this is a space intended for x gender to be able to talk". Some purposes might be: A space where men can discuss issues that disproportionately affect them. This need not necessarily be a "men only" space, and a female perspective might be useful at times, but there's clearly something wrong if men are not able to lead a conversation about things that affect them, or if they feel like the space is … | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 14/10/21 11:03 PM |
| 5 | The state of videogames and the impact on boys and young menI think a lot of guys that like video games would like tabletop board games. It has exploded in the last two decades and there is a massive range of genres, mechanics and themes. It's social and not in front of a screen (generally). Most cities have board gaming places you can go to join games, often run out of shops. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 14/10/21 10:24 PM |
| 3 | The state of videogames and the impact on boys and young menSure is. But, you know, "punching up" and all that crap. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 14/10/21 10:18 PM |
| 6 | In ‘The Last Duel,’ Matt Damon and Ben Affleck Want You to Know They Know Men Are BadThis. Firebrand preachers may not have the influence they did in colonial times, but the cultural instinct for moral judgement and cowering is still there, just translated to a different cause. This is the difference between conscious religion and unconscious religious sensibility, which runs much deeper in a society and changes on its own schedule. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 14/10/21 09:57 PM |
| 10 | In ‘The Last Duel,’ Matt Damon and Ben Affleck Want You to Know They Know Men Are BadIt seems like Matt Damon and Ben Affleck have internalised misandry. If we leave out the option of it just being pandering / virtue signaling and take them at their words, they literally think men are the "absolute fucking worst", and that there's something primal that makes men toxic. You can't really define self-hate any more clearly than that, unless the person no longer identifies as male. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 14/10/21 09:49 PM |
| 8 | The state of videogames and the impact on boys and young menA few examples: "The universe is full of testosterone. Trust me, it's unbearable." "Tired of being a man in that last body. Dear lord, how do you cope with all that ego?" "Are you thinking? Stop it, you're a man. It looks weird." I'm not a fan of Doctor Who, but have a friend who used to be until recently. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 14/10/21 09:43 PM |
| 2 | Why is "but men are the majority of perpetrators" brought up when talking about male victims?I guess at some point sarcasm goes so far that it loops around to sincerity. The fact is that feminists do often point out that men have a violence problem. I suppose the disingenuity is that it doesn't address OPs question genuinely, which is why I think fraktalMaus' first comment was better: that many women have been habituated to see violence as a gendered issue so they instinctively jump to pointing out the gender of the perpetrators instead of showing concern for the victims. | /r/MensRights | 14/10/21 09:42 PM |
| 110 | In ‘The Last Duel,’ Matt Damon and Ben Affleck Want You to Know They Know Men Are BadThis is really sad. But what did people think would happen when a term like Toxic Masculinity was popularised? It's "supposed" to be about social norms. Now it's "something primal" in men. People defended the term with "it doesn't mean all men are shitty". Now it's "men are shit", without any irony or qualification. We've finally completed the path that we knew was coming. Men, at their core, are "the absolute fucking worst." | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 14/10/21 08:46 AM |
| 11 | The state of videogames and the impact on boys and young menThanks - my knowledge of anime is pretty dated (Evangelion, Ranma 1/2, etc.). But I agree it is able to bring very different perspectives on a lot of things compared with Western media. A lot of young men seem to really resound with Uncle Iroh from Avatar TLA. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 14/10/21 05:30 AM |
| 23 | An excellent comment on sex dolls that explores the negative stigma around male sex toys and male sexuality in generalI realise it's not my place to critique this, but that's not what I would call a protocol. By definition, a protocol is understood consciously and acknowledged consciously by both parties and by the community at large, not something that's taboo to talk about. A very crude and outdated example of a protocol is the fabled African village where spending more than x minutes with a member of the opposite sex means you're getting married. A contrasting example might be a gathering of Celts or Vikings… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 14/10/21 04:59 AM |
| 8 | Why is "but men are the majority of perpetrators" brought up when talking about male victims?Maybe in the US, but this uneasy conversation around violence is also happening in other nations without that particular problem. | /r/MensRights | 14/10/21 04:02 AM |
| 1 | Why is "but men are the majority of perpetrators" brought up when talking about male victims?Not sure this is disingenuous in this case. Though fraktalMaus said it better in their first comment. | /r/MensRights | 14/10/21 04:02 AM |
| 27 | The state of videogames and the impact on boys and young menMale target eliminated, no big loss Oooh cringe... like those lines in recent Doctor Who series. Is it me or does it also seem anachronistic, like something you'd hear from an "independent woman" stereotype character in an 80s movie. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 14/10/21 02:09 AM |
| 60 | An excellent comment on sex dolls that explores the negative stigma around male sex toys and male sexuality in generalCreating something of an "asshole filter" wherein so many boundaries and expectations are put up that most guys won't approach because of the fear of violating those boundaries. Which leaves only the assholes that are willing to violate those boundaries as the ones that approach. I feel like this kind of problem has been coming ever since societies relaxed their long-held rules and taboos around man-woman courtship. We've had a century of wistful love songs and stories about how nobody knows the… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 14/10/21 02:04 AM |
| 8 | The state of videogames and the impact on boys and young menInteresting to hear someone else with that long-term perspective. When you say that "other games are much more blatantly man hating", what sort of things are you talking about? The extremes seem so contradictory, with attempts to inject heavy wokeness at one end and softcore porn at the other. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 14/10/21 12:51 AM |
| 3 | It is pointless. Things just keep getting worse.Your strategy of simply stating feminist concepts like "patriarchy" is not likely to be effective here, nor is claiming that one particular movement is the cure for all issues that disproportionately affect men. Maybe try to respond to people by making some connection to their own context and way of understanding the world. | /r/MensRights | 13/10/21 11:18 PM |
| 1 | Twice today I heard on the news that women had been kept indoors suffering in isolation during the pandemic, as if men were running around freely and socializing.Yeah, sounds like we generally agree. Only thing I would add is that collectivism isn't solely to blame. The modern move to individualism and the idealisation of the Nuclear Family actually locked in a lot of this shit too. | /r/MensRights | 13/10/21 10:02 PM |
| 2 | Twice today I heard on the news that women had been kept indoors suffering in isolation during the pandemic, as if men were running around freely and socializing.There's not a lot of latinos or spaniards in my country, but I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on their perspectives. | /r/MensRights | 13/10/21 06:50 AM |
| 3 | Twice today I heard on the news that women had been kept indoors suffering in isolation during the pandemic, as if men were running around freely and socializing.but for some reason, people is more likely to watch at the problems of the women, which is at least, unfair. I agree. Although feminism has been around for a while, women are having a cultural moment right now, with public attention being drawn to a number of serious (as well as not so serious) issues affecting them, while a number of serious issues affecting men are not receiving attention. For especially younger men who are just becoming aware of issues that disproportionately affect them, thi… | /r/MensRights | 13/10/21 06:35 AM |
| 4 | Twice today I heard on the news that women had been kept indoors suffering in isolation during the pandemic, as if men were running around freely and socializing.I'm not sure if they're going to respond but I'll take a punt. Historically, our culture(s) have expected men to fulfill certain roles just because of what's between our legs, and not with regard to other individual talents, needs or wants. This is, of course, sexism. Many of these expectations are complained about here, such as being forced to fight in wars, or being treated as less capable parents to children. They have far-reaching effects on employment, law, and family life. Some of these ex… | /r/MensRights | 13/10/21 05:37 AM |
| 5 | Twice today I heard on the news that women had been kept indoors suffering in isolation during the pandemic, as if men were running around freely and socializing.Or try r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates if you want a perspective that is allowed to look beyond feminist discourse. | /r/MensRights | 13/10/21 05:26 AM |
| 2 | “Kill All Men?” …..Kill all disabled men?? Kill all black men?? Kill men belonging to visible minorities or migrants?? What about killing first responders or those mostly men risking their lives daily in the dirtiest jobs making your life bearable.it’s hypocritical to consistently avoid “gamer talk” and sexism against women, undermine female victims of sexual assault, female victims of trafficking I agree, that would be hypocritical. However, I don't think it would be reasonable for a forum like this (for all its faults which I'll get to in a moment) to spend all its time acknowledging that those things happen. I'm also going to have to disagree that "MOST men" ignore the things you list. I have always found it frustrating to be told that… | /r/MensRights | 12/10/21 03:29 AM |
| 4 | “Kill All Men?” …..Kill all disabled men?? Kill all black men?? Kill men belonging to visible minorities or migrants?? What about killing first responders or those mostly men risking their lives daily in the dirtiest jobs making your life bearable.So, you can say that I'm a language pedant if you want, but you wrote this: how men (the HUUUUGE supporters of rape jokes A plain reading of this text is that men (as a group) are the supporters of these things. I would not use this phrasing in discussing women as a group. There are people on this forum who do make these generalisations, and they are often called out on it (though not as often as I would like). You also never mentioned your own experience in the comment I replied to, but, if it … | /r/MensRights | 12/10/21 01:51 AM |
| 1 | “Kill All Men?” …..Kill all disabled men?? Kill all black men?? Kill men belonging to visible minorities or migrants?? What about killing first responders or those mostly men risking their lives daily in the dirtiest jobs making your life bearable.If our society ever learns how to use the Internet and social media in a healthy way, we'll look back on this time of history with regret. Whether you're using humour or not, it's never a good idea to dump your trauma on a platform for everyone on the planet to see. There's no justification. Eventually legal systems will catch up and Twitter, etc. will be about as instantaneous and open as a traditional Letter to the Editor. | /r/MensRights | 12/10/21 01:38 AM |
| 5 | “Kill All Men?” …..Kill all disabled men?? Kill all black men?? Kill men belonging to visible minorities or migrants?? What about killing first responders or those mostly men risking their lives daily in the dirtiest jobs making your life bearable.HUUUUGE supporters of rape jokes Jesus. This is how you see men? | /r/MensRights | 12/10/21 12:04 AM |
| 5 | Progress?There's some positive things in this article (note: it is from 2019): An acknowledgement that TM is not necessarily a helpful term. Instead he employs the term "Stereotype Threat" and emphasises belonging and diverse identity. Obliquely criticising an MRA without completely condemning the idea. This suggests he has actually listened to some perspectives before forming an opinion. Endorsing the value of International Men's Day. But there's a big problem with the article too. Although, as noted, h… | /r/MensRights | 11/10/21 10:46 PM |
| 5 | What sorts of tools do you use to help sort out household duties with your wife/significant other?In my experience, it's often the case that one person in a couple is more willing to tolerate mess and/or disorder than the other. I'm not talking about extremes like hoarding at one end or obsessive cleanliness at the other. In my case, I am less tolerant of mess than my partner. I find it stressful, while my partner is able to ignore it. I'm careful to avoid resentment building up, but it is a source of occasional friction. Ultimately, I've found that I can't find a way for my partner to do as… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 10/10/21 10:10 PM |
| 2 | Increased normalisation of online sports betting among menOh yeah, advertising is propaganda as applied to selling commercial products. It's the same psychological theory used by Goering, but developed even more. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 10/10/21 08:22 AM |
| 3 | Can someone help me find a specific medium post about toxic masculinity?That article actually does a decent job of describing the problems with the term and the related concepts. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 08/10/21 11:45 PM |
| 6 | Increased normalisation of online sports betting among menIt's interesting to me - not in a good way - how these advertisers seem to understand their particular target market of young men better than the ones trying to challenge ideas about masculinity (like the infamous, hamfisted Gillette ad from a couple of years back). Many of the Australian ads for online gambling centre the blokey everyman (the American equivalent might be a lovable schlubb). At times, he's in his own world while placing bets on his phone, then he's shown connected with his group… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 08/10/21 03:09 AM |
| 1 | A school makes all boys apologize to the girls for all crimes committed by men against womenYeah, sorry, no other info that I have. I'm not sure if the story got buried or that people just saw it as an isolated, freak incident. Here's a related article from two months ago about a boys' school in Victoria that has decided to ditch a "respectful relationships" project they were part of. According to the article, there was a backlash from parents because of confronting material about sex and drugs, not because of sensitivities about issues around masculinity. | /r/MensRights | 08/10/21 12:26 AM |
| 3 | A school makes all boys apologize to the girls for all crimes committed by men against womenI agree, but it's about as much of an apology as you can expect from any institution under fire these days. The standard one you get is "If this caused offence, then we apologise..." But, yeah, you can bet it would have been a different apology if the target group wasn't boys. | /r/MensRights | 07/10/21 09:10 PM |
| 13 | A school makes all boys apologize to the girls for all crimes committed by men against womenNot as far as I know. | /r/MensRights | 07/10/21 07:25 AM |
| 32 | A school makes all boys apologize to the girls for all crimes committed by men against womenIt was Brauer College in Warrnambool. As part of the assembly, the students were made to watch a video speech by a school captain at Brisbane Boys' College, which bizarrely included the phrase "stop being boys, be human". I don't even believe all of this was done with the worst intentions. Our culture just has very messed up ideas about the best way to engage with boys and men about masculinity, often failing to recognise the damage these hamfisted approaches do. I think it comes from a blinkere… | /r/MensRights | 07/10/21 03:17 AM |
| 43 | A school makes all boys apologize to the girls for all crimes committed by men against womenI don't think so. I recall there was a meeting with the parents and a letter to the families. | /r/MensRights | 07/10/21 12:21 AM |
| 49 | A school makes all boys apologize to the girls for all crimes committed by men against womenIt's not unusual here for schools to expose students to planned programs about gender, relationships, etc. (indeed, there is a mandatory program in my state that has been critiqued on Reddit before) but this particular event was so obviously hamfisted that the general public was electrified against the school when it hit the headlines. I don't think anyone faced the chopping block, but there was a lot of mea culpa. | /r/MensRights | 06/10/21 11:50 PM |
| 296 | A school makes all boys apologize to the girls for all crimes committed by men against womenRather old news - this happened earlier this year in my state of Victoria in Australia, at the height of another public uproar around sexual harrassment and abuse in workplaces. The event provoked an overwhelmingly negative reception at the time from nearly all quarters, and still does according to the subreddit you've linked. The school had to backtrack heavily and apologise to parents. | /r/MensRights | 06/10/21 11:29 PM |
| 7 | The updated International Men's Day Leaflet Pack is here!I believe technically, women are at least half of "homeless" because we have data on them: they're allowed in shelters (and still considered homeless). Many of the stats for homeless also include "couch surfers", not just those in shelters. As you say, men far outnumber women for "rough sleeping" in most developed nations. | /r/MensRights | 06/10/21 10:36 PM |
| 4 | Dutch 'Week of loneliness': individualizing structural problems in a room full of elephants. A task for Male Advocates?I think a lot of people do want monogamous pair bonding, even if they don't realize it, but they've been told its sexist/unenlightened/oppressive, etc. I myself have been called names like "grandpa", "slut-shamer", or told things like "go back to the 50's" Although I speak as someone who is comfortable being in a monogamous relationship, I think this a bit of a worrying development. Things have a tendency to swing. Many of the libertines from the 60s and 70s (and their children) became the most … | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 06/10/21 10:32 PM |
| 2 | A tonic for the toxic narrative on masculinityCool - yeah, I like the flipping of "toxic" with "tonic". It's very much a positive, hopeful message. You're right that it seems opposite to the recent marked increases in mental health issues and especially loneliness among men. I do think younger generations of men might be considered more playful than previous generations of men, eg. spending a lot more time enjoying games of various kinds, whether video games or tabletop games. | /r/MensRights | 06/10/21 10:24 PM |
| 16 | Why is telling a man not to do something seen as misogyny?This. Gender expectations and perceptions about men cannot have their own causes or solutions, whether they are independent or even complementary. They must derive only from gender expectations and perceptions about women. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 06/10/21 09:52 PM |
| 1 | A tonic for the toxic narrative on masculinitySure, I just thought you wanted to discuss it since you posted it here. | /r/MensRights | 06/10/21 08:41 PM |
| 3 | A tonic for the toxic narrative on masculinityI had a read through. I realise it's an opinion piece, but I'm not sure where he's getting his ideas - is it anecdotal? If we look at young men today, we can see a certain brightness in them that had dimmed down in their fathers and grandfathers. Would you agree with this? What do you think about what he puts forward? I like the emphasis on the importance of play / playfulness. BTW, his comments about gay men are... interesting? Some people might find them offensive. I'm not sure exactly what he… | /r/MensRights | 06/10/21 01:59 AM |
| 13 | Sooooo...blah blah blah, roles reversed.Yeah, that's just the usual casual male-shaming that our culture hasn't moved on from yet. But I'm kind of delighted how the top commenters here didn't take that bait and instead pointed out the poor scientific interpretation in the comment above that one. | /r/MensRights | 05/10/21 11:17 PM |
| 2 | Rebutting "men need to learn how to be emotional with other men!" and the likeYeah, I don't expect a men's movement to resemble a gender-flipped version of feminism in every respect. Our issues are different in a lot of ways, and times have changed. But I do hope that more men will start giving a shit about things that affect them disproportionately. That will also mean a bit of give in both directions: some male advocates will need to get out from under the apron strings of feminism, while other male advocates will need to stop obsessing about and blaming feminism and wo… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 05/10/21 09:22 PM |
| 2 | Some thoughts about plots and (male) characters in the 'romantic' genre: TV shows, movies, and literaturethe "single woman seeks good man" tv tropes page. I think an interesting reverse example of this is Mike and Dave Need Wedding Dates. All four leads (the two men and the two women) are reckless and immature, though one pair-up is less so than the other. The men initially think they've found "good girls" and ultimately the women come to the realisation that they are also being selfish, independently of the men. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 05/10/21 05:25 AM |
| 14 | I just read a perspective on male suicide that astonished meAustralia's male proportion is very similar to US and UK, I think: 75%. The actual rate for males is 17.8 per 100 000. The rate among indigenous Australians is twice the rate among non-indigenous. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 05/10/21 03:29 AM |
| 7 | Some thoughts about plots and (male) characters in the 'romantic' genre: TV shows, movies, and literatureI haven't watched any significant amount of the specific examples you cite for this type of movie/book. I would question whether these examples are actually approved by feminists, though I would agree that the male characters do not receive the same scrutiny as the female characters. In my mind, the female-marketed romance genre is the flipside of the male-marketed action genre. Until fairly recently, female love interests in action movies were hardly well developed characters. People like to th… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 05/10/21 12:30 AM |
| 16 | Does anyone else find it amazing that society expects men to perform their masculinity but the same performances are so fickle and dumbYeah, male gender expectations are all over the place. I tend to try and look at it from a historical perspective. If we think of a functional community from centuries ago like a village or tribe, I think then gender roles or expectations placed on men would have had more of a sense of internal consistency, even if they still weren't fair. They were part of an established community role and they were instilled or communicated in well-established, commonly understood ways. The mess we have today … | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 04/10/21 11:33 PM |
| 4 | Question about MensLibDiscussion at that sub is limited by its pro-feminist position, which cannot be criticised and has led them into big mistakes lately, like the recent AMA. The sub can be a useful resource for some topics and issues affecting men, but cannot give a full picture. The heavy moderation often results in a skewed perspective that, at times, reeks of internalised misandry, but some of the users have surprisingly pro-male views when given the opportunity to speak. Conversely, discussion at this sub is l… | /r/MensRights | 04/10/21 09:59 PM |
| 2 | Have you ever wondered one reason why some people feel an aversion to/hate MRAs is because they dismiss/used to dismiss the existence of men's issues?Admitting you have problems and seeking help is an admission of weakness. I don't think the shame here is primarily to do with the perception of individual weakness, though there is undoubtedly a connection and I think men have certainly bought into the hyper-individualism of our culture more than women. It's more that men aren't supposed to care about, or fight for, other men. They can fight for other soldiers, other comrades, other players on the football team, etc. But they can't fight for ot… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 04/10/21 09:23 PM |
| 4 | Men Putting Hard Expectations On Other MenYeah, a lot of this is about how it's done. It sounds like you aren't just blindly enforcing unhealthy expectations for men, that those expectations that you do try to instill are generally positive and healthy ones, and that you are seeking to do it in an edifying way. I actually think this discussion touches on the core of our culture's current problems with masculinity, and something that was pointed out by the Mythopoetic Men's Movement all the way back in the 80s: The most unhealthy and har… | /r/MensRights | 03/10/21 11:59 PM |
| 2 | Men Putting Hard Expectations On Other MenI'm not sure OP is saying that it's wrong to encourage those things among men. You can encourage other men in all sorts of ways while still looking after eachother's mental health, not putting eachother down, reaching out to overcome barriers of shame. So many of the men here experience an enormous pressure from women to behave in certain ways. I think OP is saying that men could do more to build up eachothers self-worth so that they can be more authentically themselves. Although it's not my per… | /r/MensRights | 03/10/21 09:36 PM |
| 5 | Have you ever wondered one reason why some people feel an aversion to/hate MRAs is because they dismiss/used to dismiss the existence of men's issues?Yeah, it's not compulsory, though. A lot of countries do it that way but take-up by male parents is very limited. Will not produce cultural change at anything more than a glacial pace. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 03/10/21 02:29 AM |
| 18 | Have you ever wondered one reason why some people feel an aversion to/hate MRAs is because they dismiss/used to dismiss the existence of men's issues?If feminism offers me a way out I’ll take it, and they’re the only mainstream movement that has offered that to me. When I was a teenager in the early 90s, I expressed my cynicism about the lack of attention to men's issues and was told by a feminist friend of my mother's that "feminists are fighting for men's issues too". The example she used was paternity leave. 25 years later and I'm yet to see it in any real form outside of a few European states. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 03/10/21 12:27 AM |
| 18 | Have you ever wondered one reason why some people feel an aversion to/hate MRAs is because they dismiss/used to dismiss the existence of men's issues?Since the second half of the 20th Century, I think there's been a stigma on men who have shown an interest in men's issues, whether that's rights or health and wellbeing. This is one of the reasons why effective men's movements have been so few and far between. I think this would have been the case even without the existence of feminism, because our culture expected/expects men to fight and work for others, not for themselves as a group. I'm still not sure if this out-group bias is indeed biolog… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 02/10/21 10:44 PM |
| 2 | The Australian Broadcast Corporation (ABC) war on men and boys continues, ignoring the male suicide crisis and attempting to shft public focus to women who self harmI appreciate your reply. The key driver for western societies development - married men with families - keeps disappearing quickly. While I think this is a factor, the inevitable decline of our current industrial civilisation has major causes outside of individual family dynamics, including such mundane things as energy, resources, waste, cultural fatigue, as well as other economic and political conditions. We're following the pattern of most past civilisations so the next century will likely se… | /r/MensRights | 02/10/21 10:07 PM |
| 10 | Rebutting "men need to learn how to be emotional with other men!" and the likeBut ultimately it has to come from the man himself or from men themselves, and it can't be as an extension of feminism or any other ideology for that matter, and it can't always be pretty and clean and agreeable to feminist sensibilities. Holy shit, late reply but take my upvote! I wish I could see this sentiment expressed so cleanly and clearly everywhere. Like many women, many men are being saddled with conflicting and often contradictory expectations. I think the assumption of male hyperagenc… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 02/10/21 02:41 AM |
| 1 | The Australian Broadcast Corporation (ABC) war on men and boys continues, ignoring the male suicide crisis and attempting to shft public focus to women who self harmGood article. I was kind of shocked there wasn't the obligatory "but women attempt more" (though the piece is spotlighting a female photographer). Maybe I've become too cynical, or maybe things are actually changing to a point where issues affecting men are allowed to stand alone. | /r/MensRights | 02/10/21 01:50 AM |
| 7 | As the discussion to make James Bond a woman rolls on I thought of some other films that we could change the gender of:Whereas changing the gender in all the above films except Kill Bill doesn't make sense at all. What do you mean by "doesn't make sense"? Doesn't make financial sense for the producers? Doesn't make for a good story? Wouldn't appeal to an audience? I think OP's point is that such gender flipped scripts wouldn't be seen as acceptable, regardless of their appeal. | /r/MensRights | 01/10/21 11:50 PM |
| 8 | The Australian Broadcast Corporation (ABC) war on men and boys continues, ignoring the male suicide crisis and attempting to shft public focus to women who self harmWhile more men take their life than women each year, women engage in self-harm at a higher rate and make more suicide attempts It always feels distasteful to delve into the following question, but I would like to have a clear answer to it: Is it possible to derive a comparison between persons attempting suicide, rather than suicide attempts? That is, if we know, or can estimate, what proportion of suicide attempts are second, third, etc. attempts by the same person, could we arrive at a figure t… | /r/MensRights | 01/10/21 06:29 AM |
| 3 | Introducing our BRAND NEW International Men's Day Leaflet Pack. These leaflets are free to copy, print, and modify. (Link to the full pack in the comments)For those in Australia, this organisation produced some posters/memes for IMD in 2020. I'm assuming they'll do it again this year. It's more of a health focus but it takes in issues like suicide and homelessness. I've found their fact sheets quite useful. | /r/MensRights | 01/10/21 12:41 AM |
| 9 | Introducing our BRAND NEW International Men's Day Leaflet Pack. These leaflets are free to copy, print, and modify. (Link to the full pack in the comments)Yeah, I guess I'm the idiot for wanting to encourage polite, constructive discourse. Correct stats are, of course, important too. | /r/MensRights | 30/09/21 11:58 PM |
| 14 | Introducing our BRAND NEW International Men's Day Leaflet Pack. These leaflets are free to copy, print, and modify. (Link to the full pack in the comments)It seems like you want to offer a suggestion to change one of the statistics in the poster. Maybe you should have led with a more constructive tone instead of coming in guns blazing with stats. Many commenters here are defensive because, while family violence and IPV against women is currently receiving a lot of attention in many developed nations, male victims/survivors are receiving none despite their proportion being significant. | /r/MensRights | 30/09/21 11:16 PM |
| 3 | When you try to uplift men, this happens :DFeminism doesn't own the act of calling out gender-specific slurs. | /r/MensRights | 29/09/21 11:46 PM |
| 3 | When you try to uplift men, this happens :DWell of course the OP mentioned gender. The encouragement was directed towards men. Is that not allowed? | /r/MensRights | 29/09/21 11:43 PM |
| 3 | When you try to uplift men, this happens :DIt's my observation that most of the people on forums like this are younger men who have never tasted of these glorious benefits the "patriarchy" supposedly brought their forefathers. What you're seeing is not entitlement but confusion and, in some cases, misdirected rage. These men are constantly being told that they are privileged now but this is not evident in their own lives. so you can “man up” "Man up" is a tool of the very "patriarchy" you seem to be against. | /r/MensRights | 29/09/21 11:42 PM |
| 2 | When you try to uplift men, this happens :DSorry, I missed this comment before. Judging by the self-confessed derailer's response, the original post may have been about mental health or suicide, both of which affect men in specific ways that remain under-addressed worldwide. Not everything is a battle between a perpetrator of one gender and a victim of another. | /r/MensRights | 29/09/21 11:36 PM |
| 4 | When you try to uplift men, this happens :DOK, so you're pointing out hypocrisy among some MRAs, just as they point out hypocrisy among some feminists? Do you think OP deserved the derailing of his post? man-children Let's use adult-children. Man-child is clearly a gendered slur that is never used for other groups. the patriarchy no longer benefiting just men The legacy system of gender roles and expectations that you call "patriarchy" hurt both men and women. What benefits there were mainly accrued to a very small proportion of men. | /r/MensRights | 29/09/21 11:30 PM |
| 3 | Thoughts on Rudyard Kiplings "If"It may be that this form of aspirational motivation just doesn't work for you, and that's ok. I'd put myself in that basket too. The emphasis on the triumph of the virtuous individual is typical of the modern era, but not necessarily typical of other eras in history. Also, this poem does not set out any actionable steps to reach these character goals. | /r/MensRights | 29/09/21 11:25 PM |
| 2 | When you try to uplift men, this happens :DWhat does that have to do with OP's post or my comment to you? I've just said that derailing is unhelpful in either direction. | /r/MensRights | 29/09/21 11:17 PM |
| 3 | When you try to uplift men, this happens :DFrom what I can tell, OP wrote a message specifically to encourage men and someone attempted to derail it. When certain men attempt to derail messages directed to other groups, they are rightly called out on it. Men as a group experience a set of issues and concerns that require addressing, and it is not wrong to seek to do so. It's not about who is or is not oppressed. | /r/MensRights | 29/09/21 11:13 PM |
| 7 | If society is serious about combatting "toxic masculinity", why is there then no placed value on male bonding and male friendships?why are all male gatherings outside of sociopolitical and heterosexual/homosexual settings viewed still as some sort of "misogynistic" get-together I understand that this has been the experience for many men, but I think we have to push through that. I've been involved in a men's harmony chorus for several years now and it is not viewed in the way you describe. There's also Men's Sheds, and groups like the Masons. And there's hobbies that are male dominated to the extent that you're likely to ha… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 29/09/21 10:08 AM |
| 11 | Just tried to have a conversation on Youtube...The warning sign was the mocking condescension in their first, smug, dismissive reply. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 28/09/21 05:41 AM |
| 16 | UK All-party parliamentary group on issues affecting men and boys published its first report "A boy today: the world into which a boy today in the UK is growing up"I think the cultural attitude of male-as-utility definitely played and continues to play a role in the lack of attention to men's concerns. But our current political and economic system requires arguments to be made in specific ways, especially in nations like the UK, US, Canada, Australia, that went all-in on neoliberal economics to a greater degree than other European counterparts. For example, the argument for more women in the workforce was easy to make in the context of nations with service… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 28/09/21 01:42 AM |
| 21 | UK All-party parliamentary group on issues affecting men and boys published its first report "A boy today: the world into which a boy today in the UK is growing up"To those in the UK, has this received any attention in the media? Hopefully this group can persevere with this work until there is. I couldn't find anything objectionable in the report. I think it majors on the issues and concerns that are most likely to get traction with the public and policy makers. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 27/09/21 10:41 PM |
| 11 | Woman fights the Patriarchy by becoming a corporate wage slave, then realizes 70 work weeks aren't all they're cracked up to be. Subsequently blames the Patriarchy.From the article: The machinations of patriarchy necessitate the exploitation of everything that isn’t male. Hang on. Maybe a feminist can correct me, but I thought the current idea was that "the patriarchy hurts men too"? Aren't men being exploited by its machinations? Men represent the majority of wage slaves, and have for all of recent history. Or is this just further evidence that "the patriarchy" is a poor concept (and poor terminology) for explaining the legacy of gender roles and expectat… | /r/MensRights | 26/09/21 11:00 PM |
| 6 | Men Expressing FeelingsYeah, I think you misread the comment entirely. They were implying that society is willing to support and encourage men expressing certain emotions, just not other ones. Misquoting a bit, but it's, 'People go aww when they see Superman shed a tear, but they don't want to hear Clark Kent experiencing depression.' | /r/MensRights | 17/09/21 06:21 AM |
| 2 | When you google "male friendships" this is what pops up.[EDIT] Post responding to was removed by moderators. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 17/09/21 02:33 AM |
| 9 | Some women don’t feel the need to ask for consentUs men need to start having more self respect and setting clear boundaries. Good action out of the post. Also, I'd want to reiterate that it's some women who are taking advantage of this uneven dynamic. | /r/MensRights | 16/09/21 11:27 PM |
| 2 | When you google "male friendships" this is what pops up.we men really need to up our male-friendship game What do you think this would involve, on a community or society level, and what are some practical things that could be done to achieve that? | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 16/09/21 10:27 PM |
| 5 | When you google "male friendships" this is what pops up.It can be hard to make friends, especially in time of COVID. What sorts of things are you interested in? Do you have hobbies or interests that you like to share with others? EDIT: I have to head to bed shortly but will be back tomorrow. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 16/09/21 09:48 AM |
| 9 | When you google "male friendships" this is what pops up.Okay so what you are saying is that they do have just as much as time and energy to make and maintain friendships, but that they don't because it is no longer easy, and many of them feel they can put all that emotional burden on their significant others. Hmm, that's an interesting way to interpret what I said. These are big cultural changes. You seem to want to blame individual men and call them lazy. I'm kind of glad you decided not to help this person. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 16/09/21 09:42 AM |
| 10 | When you google "male friendships" this is what pops up.I think the answer lies in the different ways that men and women traditionally did friendship. In short, I think male friendships are traditionally less direct and intentional, and thus much more vulnerable to the disappearance of formal and semi-formal social infrastructure. Many (even most) guys succeed at making and maintaining friends while they remain at school and university. It happens in a way that seems organic merely through shared activity enabled and mediated by the structure of bein… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 16/09/21 08:59 AM |
| 8 | When you google "male friendships" this is what pops up.OK, but I would posit that, in decades and centuries past, both men and women had time for friends (with the exception of men and women living in Dickensian conditions or remote workplaces). If that is true, then what has changed and how can it be fixed? I think that's why divorce is so devastating for men... Leaving them with nothing. Boom. Truth bomb. Same problem for a generation of men for whom work was their entire life and self-worth. They retire and there's nothing left. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 16/09/21 05:51 AM |
| 13 | When you google "male friendships" this is what pops up.Great comment! I think the reality that a proportion of men have fewer socialisation needs should be recognised, but I think some men in that position wave it around like it's a sign of being stronger, better, more independent, something to emulate at the expense of ignoring your own actual needs. https://www.artofmanliness.com/articles/understanding-male-friendships/ which is a podcast with a sociologist about male friendships I know not everyone agrees about all the content on that website, bu… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 16/09/21 12:43 AM |
| 14 | When you google "male friendships" this is what pops up.God this is sad. This conversation about men needs to be moved to a better place, and out of the hands of this type of feminist lecturing from the sidelines. What do you all think are ways that our culture can change so that it is easier for boys and men to maintain friendships into adulthood, and then build or rebuild them if they do run out? Here are some thoughts I've had: Be more deliberate about showing and instructing boys in inter-relational skills with an emphasis on friendships and not … | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 15/09/21 10:44 PM |
| 4 | Why do some people seem to love emasculating men?Don't put words in my mouth please. It looks like I misunderstood. If so, I apologise. What I'm saying about Arnold in the context of the movie Predator is that he's a great example of masculinity. Great leader. Inspirational. Disagreeable. Ethical. Caring. Innovative. I'd say he's an example, yes. If everyone's a leader, there's no followers. If everyone's disagreeable, there's no unity. if you don't agree you probably have too much soy in your diet I'm surprised you use this slur since you jus… | /r/MensRights | 15/09/21 06:34 AM |
| 7 | Why do some people seem to love emasculating men?Are you seriously saying that Arnold Schwarzenegger's character in Predator is what all men should aspire to? Literally a body builder on juice battling an invisible alien with a machine gun? It's fine if that's an image that inspires you, but men don't all need to be jacked, as is proven by the majority of men in history who "got things done". You are trying to load men and boys with a limiting and unreasonable set of expectations on what they can and should do and be. If a man doesn't want to … | /r/MensRights | 15/09/21 05:35 AM |
| 33 | Why do some people seem to love emasculating men?re: "peg the patriarchy”, I saw a celebrity wearing that slogan on a costume for some gala on the news this morning. The fact that this is allowed or approved of has got to be largely down to ignorance about what the term means, right? Here you are thinking that you're fighting a system of gender roles and expectations and you're literally reinforcing a historic shameful attitude about penetration of a male by a phallic object. The height of hypocrisy. | /r/MensRights | 15/09/21 01:09 AM |
| 7 | "Normally when I talk about men it is because I'm angry about them, but right now I'm angry for them." Someone here shared in a comment this 36-seconds video by a girl talking about her boyfriend, I transcribed it here because every person in the West needs to see this.Men-up is correct and necessary. It has nothing to do with macho or hiding feelings or suppression - the exact opposite It's all very well for you to make that distinction, but a lot of people today do not. Instead, the term is used to bully men and boys into silence and remove opportunities for developing emotional literacy. It seems to me that what you're saying is that boys and men need opportunities to develop mastery at skills and to be appropriately encouraged without coddling. | /r/MensRights | 14/09/21 11:03 PM |
| 2 | "Normally when I talk about men it is because I'm angry about them, but right now I'm angry for them." Someone here shared in a comment this 36-seconds video by a girl talking about her boyfriend, I transcribed it here because every person in the West needs to see this.The system you're describing doesn't need to be called "patriarchy" though. By calling it that, you're placing the emphasis on who has/had the power (economic, financial, political) rather than focusing on the legacy of gender roles and expectations that affect both men and women. People assume the ones who have/had the power are doing just fine, which is why the terminology of "patriarchy" is so unsuitable to an effective men's liberation movement. | /r/MensRights | 14/09/21 10:59 PM |
| 2 | TV special on body image dissatisfaction among both men and womenI'm not sure whether The View is considered a feminist show, but in my country it is nothing but daytime free-to-air TV - hardly setting cultural trends. Much as I have enjoyed Whoopi Goldberg's acting from time to time, these are mostly boomer women representing attitudes among boomer women that are on the way out. To avoid getting annoyed, I take stuff like that like I did my late grandma, who once told me how shocked she was that there wasn't a white person to ask for directions when she lost… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 14/09/21 10:11 PM |
| 21 | ABC news think that raising awareness to men's issue make us sexist and that we all hate women.For all its blanket judgement of individuals who use certain subs, the article is actually saying that Reddit's approach is not great and will have bad consequences. the policy of quarantining only exacerbated existing distrust of institutions among some users This sub, which raises awareness to men's issues, is not even mentioned BTW, though it insinuates that any public space that is the "territory of men's rights activism" is rife with misogyny. In any case, the Internet is in the middle-to-l… | /r/MensRights | 14/09/21 08:57 AM |
| 2 | TV special on body image dissatisfaction among both men and womenFirst, thanks for your personal perspective. It's upsetting that more healthcare professionals aren't aware of the issue and more understanding. I can't offer advice except to say that I hope you are able to find a therapist who is better equipped. In the doco I described, most of the men were presented in a fashion that wasn't particularly sympathetic. The hair loss guy had a typical Aussie self-deprecating "laugh it off" manner and the impression was that he was only desperate to change his ap… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 14/09/21 04:13 AM |
| 3 | TV special on body image dissatisfaction among both men and womenmany of the guys who claim they had it bad at some point but manage to improve themselves have a very distorted sense of reality and were never in such a bad situation to begin with, but they still hold others who are in much worse position to the same standards I know the following isn't some new insight, but what struck me is the deceptive effect of social media. So many of these "fitspiration" influencers promote an illusion that you can get what they have if you work hard enough, when it's r… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 13/09/21 09:50 PM |
| 2 | TV special on body image dissatisfaction among both men and womenYeah, I think you're absolutely right. As the presenter went on about how men used to be "protected", I kept thinking about the classic ads for home-order body-building courses and equipment that have been in men's magazines since the middle of the 20th century or before. They're practically a cliche. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 13/09/21 09:27 PM |
| 2 | This subreddit is heartbreakingthe exact same system that feminists have been criticising The legacy system of gender norms, roles and expectations is interpreted by feminists as "the patriarchy" with a particular perspective that is primarily about women's issues and women's concerns. That's fine as far as it goes, but it's not enough for men's issues to be properly addressed. have probably not read any feminist literature at all I've read Bell Hooks. I'm aware of the whole "patriarchy hurts men too" argument. I find it lack… | /r/MensRights | 13/09/21 09:23 PM |
| 5 | This subreddit is heartbreakingDifferent people fight for different issues. They however all fall under feminism. This is kind of presumptuous, don't you think, to claim that feminism owns men's issues? I choose not to identify as a feminist for the same reason that I don't identify as a Buddhist, for example, or as an Existentialist. While I might agree with some of the ideas held by both groups, and may even adapt some of them to my own philosophy or political position, I don't choose to brand myself with that particular id… | /r/MensRights | 13/09/21 09:18 AM |
| 8 | Patriarchy theory and toxic masculinity are mainly used by reactionaries to detract from issues and shut down conversationsThe above is as much masculinity as shopping is the epitome of femininity. The problem with that analogy is that pretty much all women are familiar with the activity of shopping. Most men are not familiar with the activity of being arseholes and treating women like shit. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 13/09/21 06:14 AM |
| 4 | This subreddit is heartbreakingThis is a common refrain. I don't doubt that you believe this, but so far most of the gains from "destroying the patriarchy" seem to have gone to women, not men. BTW, I'm not blaming feminists. As the name suggests, it is by and for women, and that's fine as far as it goes. | /r/MensRights | 13/09/21 05:32 AM |
| 6 | Patriarchy theory and toxic masculinity are mainly used by reactionaries to detract from issues and shut down conversationsIf it really is such a tiny minority, it's worth asking if it is really about masculinity at all? From what you're describing, it sounds like what used to be called peer pressure. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 13/09/21 05:28 AM |
| 3 | Reflecting on Shoe0nhead's gender issues debate...while men were busy trying to advance society, and make things easier and better for everyone... ...men largely being "givers" (providers) by nature have gone along with it. I can accept that as part of the explanation, and I think what you're pointing out is why the recent resurgence of "patriarchy" language took a lot of gen-x and millennial men by surprise. From what I can tell, the direction and language of things during the 80s and 90s seemed to be that everyone should be the same or at … | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 13/09/21 05:14 AM |
| 5 | Why men are shamed for wanting sex?Both sources of shame can be blamed on traditional gender expectations - both "snips and snails" and virgin shaming - proving again how capricious and unattainable they were always designed to be. Having said that, I think the recent gender conversations are ironically amplifying both rather than fighting them. The need for a positive, healthy and inclusive approach and consensus (where possible) to male sexuality is, I think, an underexplored men's issue. | /r/MensRights | 13/09/21 12:44 AM |
| 6 | Reflecting on Shoe0nhead's gender issues debateHence loneliness gets all the attention because it's the one thing feminists can talk about which makes it appear they care about mens issues, but without having to change any of their ideas or positions. It's performative. We care about men... ...That is the defining characteristic of the entire conversation. Women's issues are treated as systemic, except by old Bootstraps Borysenko, and men's issues are treated as interpersonal. And seemingly without any thought. Yeah, I think these are good o… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 13/09/21 12:02 AM |
| 3 | [Australia] "There's no such thing as systemic misandry"Yeah and Australia is just in general very gynocentric. I'm not sure I'd use that language exactly, but yes, I think there's a combination of cultural dynamics in Australia that results in a biased approach to gender issues. It's really just traditional chivalry masked as "fighting for the underdog", and it spans the political spectrum. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 12/09/21 11:35 PM |
| 21 | [Australia] "There's no such thing as systemic misandry"I agree that this is clearly an incendiary headline. But I'm not going to sugarcoat that Australia has a poor track record as far as the "conversation" around masculinity goes, as well as actually doing anything to reduce family violence. Let's not forget that this summit is part of a larger initiative whose title is National Plan to Reduce Violence against Women and their Children (emphasis mine). That tells you something about how men are seen in this whole issue: you're either an abuser or yo… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 12/09/21 11:17 PM |
| 5 | For ABGTQ+ guys. What can straight guys do to make you feel more included?What is your feeling about talking who you find attractive? Guy friends talking about women they like never really bothered me when I was younger, but I was in the closet then. The guys I hung out with tended to talk about nerdy stuff more, though. Movies, games, etc. Recently I was part of this kind of discussion in a mixed group (men and women) of 30 somethings, some single and some with partners, and after a few drinks had gone around. I'm very happy to list the female actors I think are attr… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 08/09/21 10:19 PM |
| 11 | For ABGTQ+ guys. What can straight guys do to make you feel more included?I don't claim to represent all gay men, but I'm pretty happy if I'm just not being deliberately insulted, stereotyped or mocked. You seem to be fine there since you're asking these questions. Among male advocates, I think an important thing is to keep in mind that gay men are free-minded individuals who can take positions across the political and cultural spectrum. That we're not automatically on anyone's team or side. I've had people assume, for example, that I'm anti-religious. In terms of soc… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 08/09/21 06:06 AM |
| 30 | Patriarchy theory and toxic masculinity are mainly used by reactionaries to detract from issues and shut down conversationsMy take on "patriarchy" is that the term and concept are mainly about power and access to power. While this arguably made it useful for addressing certain women's issues, it is considerably less useful for addressing many men's issues, which often have more to do with access to value and wellbeing within a community. I think this unsuitability explains much of the twisting that goes on when trying to fit men's concerns into the "patriarchy" framing of the legacy system of gender norms and expect… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 07/09/21 11:53 PM |
| 3 | We need to be vocal about misandry in movies and TV – A case for Amazon's CinderellaI can't comment on the sub you mention, but I think it's OK to point out negative media portrayals of men without mentioning women, just as it's OK to highlight a social issue affecting women without bringing in men. It goes without saying that negative portrayals of men in media will have negative repercussions for men, women and everyone else because issues around gender are usually double-edged. eg. the "dumb, incompetent dad" trope of the 90s and 00s certainly didn't help the rise of paterni… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 07/09/21 11:24 PM |
| 4 | Any Thoughts About This?One of them definitely fits our society Problem is they both have to do with power. This has arguably made the concept useful for a subset of women's issues relating to one gender's struggle for equal access to certain positions of economic and financial power. As the vlogger actually points out fairly well in this video, many men's issues are not about access to fields of economic and financial power from which they are denied due to being men (backfiring affirmative action aside). Instead, the… | /r/MensRights | 07/09/21 03:40 AM |
| 3 | Any Thoughts About This?I just watched the first 6 minutes and it's a reasonably nuanced take from someone that I've heard bad things about in the past. It distinguishes between a system and an individual. It acknowledges without apology that everyone (men and women) contributes to the perpetuation of a system. It also exposes the sheer number of hypocritical people (including many women) who think they're progressive while upholding negative gender expectations for men. Only issue is his apparent adherence to the use … | /r/MensRights | 07/09/21 03:21 AM |
| 4 | We need to be vocal about misandry in movies and TV – A case for Amazon's CinderellaI'd compare it to a movie about a black person in 1800 escaping bondage,it'd be totally appropriate to not have any sympathetic whitecharacters. I couldn't disagree more, unless your piece of work is the equivalent of a polemic whose only purpose is to make victims feel more aggrieved. It's also untrue to systems theory as applied to culture. As much as we might debate the morality of it, most people taking part in a system are "going with the flow", not deliberately being unlikable, stupid or c… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 07/09/21 01:39 AM |
| 1 | A little bit of performative masculinity, including "locker room talk" is positive and healthy for most malesReddit is for discussion. I'm not even convinced the argument I presented is valid myself, but I suggested it as a reason some people have given, because I thought it might be worth discussing and exploring. I didn't even tell you you were wrong or demand anything from you. I answered politely in long paragraphs, trying to explore different angles of the argument. I got nothing but curt, demanding answers from you, including a laughing face. It seems to me that you didn't want a discussion or to… | /r/MensRights | 13/04/21 10:28 PM |
| 1 | A little bit of performative masculinity, including "locker room talk" is positive and healthy for most malesWell, guess what. I don't have the kind of evidence you want. I don't have some kind of survey of how men are affected by conversations with other men when it comes to permissive attitudes to sexual assault and rape (though maybe some data does exist out there). I'm really sorry for suggesting a possible reason that might be worth exploring for why some people might have an issue with a certain kind of locker room talk. | /r/MensRights | 13/04/21 05:56 AM |
| 2 | Apparently we are all sexist for not being feministsWhat feminism actually is or isn't doesn't matter from the point of view of optics. What matters is what people think it is. | /r/MensRights | 13/04/21 05:47 AM |
| 1 | A little bit of performative masculinity, including "locker room talk" is positive and healthy for most malesHow am I supposed to provide "proof" of that? You're saying "a group of men talking to each other" when I've been at pains to point out that it's what they're talking about and how they're talking about it that makes the difference. We know that most men don't want to, and would never actually rape a woman. But clearly there is some (albeit small) proportion of men who do, who think it's allowable or OK, at least under certain circumstances. So, most men involved in this kind of discussion see i… | /r/MensRights | 13/04/21 05:45 AM |
| 1 | Apparently we are all sexist for not being feministsAgain, I never said it was good or okay. Good or okay doesn't matter if everyone is misunderstanding you because you can't read the room. It sucks, but there it is. You can be Dietrich Bonhoeffer himself but you're still going to get executed, even if later generations will praise you for your integrity and sense of justice. EDIT: Let me give you another example. Rosa Parks wasn't the first black woman in America to object to being seated at the back of the bus. She's famous because it happened … | /r/MensRights | 13/04/21 05:28 AM |
| 35 | Statistics show that female bosses sexually harass male employeesIt could be argued that instances like this show that that sexual harassment isn't innately tied to gender, but to opportunity and a workplace culture that permits and encourages it. If more workplaces had been female-dominated for decades, we would probably have much more general awareness of female perpetrators. | /r/MensRights | 13/04/21 04:50 AM |
| 1 | "We just want to be equal". That's a fair desire, but the question is equal to who. This is what has always confused me about feminism.Whatever men's issues feminist fight for first have to benefit women and then men. I agree. Feminism is primarily by and for women, and men's issues are not prioritised (or even addressed when they don't fit the patriarchy problem-solution model). Those feminists who claim otherwise are part of a small minority, or are ignorant, or are being untruthful. However, sparkle_bug was completely open about this, so I wouldn't consider that gaslighting. feminists never fight for gender neutral rape laws… | /r/MensRights | 13/04/21 02:01 AM |
| 2 | "We just want to be equal". That's a fair desire, but the question is equal to who. This is what has always confused me about feminism.I get it that feminists have their own reasons for pushing for paternity leave. However, I don't think sparkle_bug is gaslighting. They are being very upfront that this will benefit women. They're merely pointing out that it will also benefit men, and I agree that it will. And, while I don't agree with feminists about everything, this feels like a win-win. We don't need to cut off our nose to spite our face. But it still doesn't translate into higher custody for the man anyways I imagine the thi… | /r/MensRights | 13/04/21 01:40 AM |
| 3 | Why are men's issues blamed on patriarchy and discardedMany feminists have a problem-solution framework wherein all problems are framed in such a way as to fit into "patriarchy" and the solution is to fight that (somehow). It's like many ideological and also religious approaches to the world. There's no room in that framework for alternate models of understanding men's problems and finding solutions to them. In the case of men's issues, you're going to need to accept that feminism is primarily by and for women, despite what some feminists say. When … | /r/MensRights | 13/04/21 12:44 AM |
| 1 | A little bit of performative masculinity, including "locker room talk" is positive and healthy for most malesIs there anything else you still want to discuss? You can find plenty of stats yourself on domestic and intimate partner violence. I don't really know what we're trying to convince eachother about at this stage, and you've been consistently giving me one- or two-sentence replies when I'm writing long paragraphs, so I'm getting tired of trying to support the discussion. | /r/MensRights | 13/04/21 12:23 AM |
| 0 | Apparently we are all sexist for not being feministsI feel like you guys are missing the point obviousobservationz is making, which is to do with optics, not truth or rightness. Optics matters when it comes to social movements. The fact is that, for many people, saying you're not a feminist is like saying you're not a humanitarian, or you're not a decent person. The word is widely understood not in reference to the movement or the people in it (which can certainly be critiqued), but to the vague principle of wanting equality between the sexes, wh… | /r/MensRights | 12/04/21 10:59 PM |
| 2 | Competition is healthy for young menYeah, I think the key word in the OP is "healthy setting". (Disclosure: I'm someone who never learned to approach competitive situations. Some of this is just my personality. I hate competition. I hate the feeling I get when I lose, and I hate the feeling I get when I make someone else lose. I'm happy to live with it now, since I can generally avoid competition in my daily life.) Here's where I think things go wrong: Many boys are expected to compete in specific contexts, around specific skills … | /r/MensRights | 12/04/21 10:29 PM |
| -1 | "We just want to be equal". That's a fair desire, but the question is equal to who. This is what has always confused me about feminism.Don't know why you're getting downvoted for this, or why people are so opposed to paternity leave. It's not even going to affect you unless you become a dad. | /r/MensRights | 12/04/21 10:15 PM |
| 1 | A little bit of performative masculinity, including "locker room talk" is positive and healthy for most malesBullshit, no significant proportion of men beat their wives. Yeah, I guess all those stats about domestic violence are bullshit. I guess it doesn't affect heaps of men either. Men actually used to be less thuggish and used to love their wives more. There's a real irony here: you're asking me for proof of something and the statement you've made here is completely unprovable and unfalsifiable. How are you going to measure the change in thuggishness or love for someone? In any case, I did some Goog… | /r/MensRights | 12/04/21 10:03 PM |
| 1 | Why is there no Men's Support Groups? We need to create a Men's Group for young men who are struggling and need brotherhood. Not a group that has a heavy feminist bias, that teach masculinity is why your failing and to hate men.To answer your question, the chorus I'm in is mainly focused on the task at hand - singing. We do have occasional social events and we chat about our lives during breaks, but there's no formalised "support session" as such. I think this is normal for most men's organisations throughout history. My understanding is that much of men's social connection takes place shoulder-to-shoulder rather than face-to-face. this was in response to an observed trend for women to believe they should be all their … | /r/MensRights | 12/04/21 09:42 PM |
| 1 | A little bit of performative masculinity, including "locker room talk" is positive and healthy for most malesGiven that you've barely responded to me except in half sentences, I don't think I need to justify anything. I said earlier that I haven't been part of locker room talk personally. All I'm saying is that objections to it are based on an idea of what kind of things are said. If those kinds of things are never said, then there's less reason to object to it. | /r/MensRights | 12/04/21 09:04 PM |
| 1 | Dating as a man is completely exhausting because it feels like I have to do almost all of the heavy lifting all of the timeThe legacy system of gender expectations that you refer to as patriarchy allocates all sorts of things: value, wellbeing, not just power. | /r/MensRights | 12/04/21 12:04 PM |
| 1 | Dating as a man is completely exhausting because it feels like I have to do almost all of the heavy lifting all of the timeOr, maybe it's not just to do with power. | /r/MensRights | 12/04/21 11:51 AM |
| 1 | Dating as a man is completely exhausting because it feels like I have to do almost all of the heavy lifting all of the timeIt's just that you described our society as patriarchal. Since what defines a patriarchal society is that men are in positions of power, I'm wondering if men would still feel the pressure to do all the work if we suddenly had 50:50 ratio of higher of women in positions of power. I actually agree with your other advice. | /r/MensRights | 12/04/21 11:22 AM |
| 1 | A little bit of performative masculinity, including "locker room talk" is positive and healthy for most malesGoing to bed but I'll reply tomorrow. I kind of think you need to be the one to provide proof that men didn't beat their wives as much back then, since you initially made the claim. Also, what's "cap"? EDIT: apologies, to clarify - you made the claim that conservative men beat their wives less | /r/MensRights | 12/04/21 10:30 AM |
| 1 | Why is there no Men's Support Groups? We need to create a Men's Group for young men who are struggling and need brotherhood. Not a group that has a heavy feminist bias, that teach masculinity is why your failing and to hate men.Gotta dash tonight but will reply tomorrow. | /r/MensRights | 12/04/21 10:08 AM |
| 1 | Why is there no Men's Support Groups? We need to create a Men's Group for young men who are struggling and need brotherhood. Not a group that has a heavy feminist bias, that teach masculinity is why your failing and to hate men.This was not the case 50 years ago when husbands were permitted to bring a balance into the relationship So, I'm in a men's chorus (barbershop harmony). There are no women involved. The men who join don't seem to face opposition from their wives, but we do have a problem with age range - most of the guys are retirement age or older. I won't pretend to know what the situation is like for most couples, and I realise there's a lot of time pressure these days, but I feel like my sister wouldn't have… | /r/MensRights | 12/04/21 09:03 AM |
| 1 | A little bit of performative masculinity, including "locker room talk" is positive and healthy for most malesMaybe just consider if you are looking at this with rose-coloured glasses. No, conservative men don't generally beat their wives. Neither do non-conservative men. But some significant proportion of all men do. We're talking about men who actually fit conservative ideals, now, remember that. I'm talking about how culture actually plays out, not ideals. And a lot of men beat their wives in eras that we might consider conservative times (eg. the 50s). It just wasn't talked about like it is now. You… | /r/MensRights | 12/04/21 08:53 AM |
| 3 | Why is there no Men's Support Groups? We need to create a Men's Group for young men who are struggling and need brotherhood. Not a group that has a heavy feminist bias, that teach masculinity is why your failing and to hate men.I'm not sure that mens sheds are exclusively for men these days. Here's an explanation from one of the state associations that gives some context around the issue of individual Sheds opening up to women. Key quote: We have had a talk to the anti-discrimination people and received assurance that they support a Shed’s right to not allow women into it on the grounds that it inhibits men from talking about the things that worry or concern them and this we support. And here's a quote from the nationa… | /r/MensRights | 12/04/21 08:29 AM |
| 1 | A little bit of performative masculinity, including "locker room talk" is positive and healthy for most malesOK, predatory is a strong word. A better word is somewhere between denigrating, creepy and rapey. It's more than "I'd like to bang that chick" or "that referee is hot." | /r/MensRights | 12/04/21 08:19 AM |
| 2 | A little bit of performative masculinity, including "locker room talk" is positive and healthy for most malesDon't be so disheartened, my brother. OK, so my comment wasn't about what I want or don't want. Let's not assume eachother's position on the conservative-liberal spectrum. I happen to agree with you that more committed, monogamous relationships are, overall, a good thing for society in general and for most individuals. But you're dealing with a world that has technologies that give more choices than were available before, like the Pill. Moreover, it's worth noting that households for most of his… | /r/MensRights | 12/04/21 08:08 AM |
| 1 | A little bit of performative masculinity, including "locker room talk" is positive and healthy for most malesHe could be. It probably won't surprise you that gay men can find straight men attractive too, even when there's no realistic chance of a relationship. Either way, there's still a boundary between talking about him (or all straight men) in a way that is generalising and predatory, and in a way that is not. As you say in your other reply, this is not some clear, scientific line, so each situation has to be assessed. | /r/MensRights | 12/04/21 07:21 AM |
| 1 | Why is there no Men's Support Groups? We need to create a Men's Group for young men who are struggling and need brotherhood. Not a group that has a heavy feminist bias, that teach masculinity is why your failing and to hate men.Depending where you are in the world, there are still male-only groups and organisations, though some are on their last legs. eg. Men's Sheds, male choruses, lodges like the Freemasons, some sports and hobby groups (though generally mixed in theory, they are sometimes male-only in practice). There are also specific support-type groups and services for men (dads' groups, mental health, etc.) eg. Try Cecil's Men's Hub directory. Note, some of the services in there probably won't pass your feminist… | /r/MensRights | 12/04/21 05:07 AM |
| 2 | A little bit of performative masculinity, including "locker room talk" is positive and healthy for most malesI'm not sure what you mean. I didn't give any specific examples of unhealthy gender expectations for men. If you mean that everything squares out if both men and women are following traditional gender expectations, I don't think that's a useful argument because: a. That clock isn't going back. Too many other pieces have already moved. It's like saying we can all go back to fuelling our lamps on whale oil. b. A number of unhealthy and restrictive gender expectations for men just hurt men, and you… | /r/MensRights | 12/04/21 03:57 AM |
| 1 | Dating as a man is completely exhausting because it feels like I have to do almost all of the heavy lifting all of the timeIt is T R I V I A L Maybe, instead of insisting it is trivial, you might consider if there's a reason, besides laziness, that a number of men are not finding your "obvious" advice useful or actionable. I'm not defending them or you, but there's clearly a disconnect here. | /r/MensRights | 12/04/21 02:18 AM |
| 2 | "How to build a modern man: Helping boys to grow up happy" Big (14-minute read) article in the Irish Times. Mentions patriarchy once and a female gender studies lecturer is quoted but not completely written from that perspective, so possibly a useful conversation starterI am getting really tired of this cycle of blaming men and boys, and then saying "men and boys are alienated and need to be included in the conversation". I can only see a couple of ways this can end: The issue just burns out without a satisfactory resolution for anyone, or something else takes over as the cultural boogeyman. Some movement in response reaches a critical mass and the mainstream "dialogue" is superseded or becomes irrelevant. This could be a highly reactionary movement with an ove… | /r/MensRights | 11/04/21 11:57 PM |
| -1 | Dating as a man is completely exhausting because it feels like I have to do almost all of the heavy lifting all of the timeWhether it is leftist or not is irrelevant. The question is whether it, and the kind of thinking about men that it permits, is capable of providing decent, actionable advice for men in this situation. I would answer "no", and there's been numerous threads on the sub itself bemoaning this fact. It still has its place for other discussions. | /r/MensRights | 11/04/21 11:46 PM |
| 4 | Dating as a man is completely exhausting because it feels like I have to do almost all of the heavy lifting all of the timeour weird patriarchal society Do we have evidence that this dynamic would not still happen if women were in the majority positions of power in governments and corporations? | /r/MensRights | 11/04/21 11:43 PM |
| 5 | "How to build a modern man: Helping boys to grow up happy" Big (14-minute read) article in the Irish Times. Mentions patriarchy once and a female gender studies lecturer is quoted but not completely written from that perspective, so possibly a useful conversation starterWe’d start our section on consent, and they’d say, ‘you’re going to tell us not to rape women’. Here are 16-year-old boys who are already defensive, who are already defending masculinity. How is it "defending masculinity" to pick up on the fact that they are going to be targeted for special instruction and censure because of their gender? Yes, they're defensive but they're not "defending masculinity". They're defending themselves. | /r/MensRights | 11/04/21 11:22 PM |
| 0 | A little bit of performative masculinity, including "locker room talk" is positive and healthy for most malesI think you need to identify what is the specific objection to the "locker room talk", and maybe a misunderstanding about what "locker room talk" actually includes. Is it just saying you want to bang a particular woman? Or is it more sinister, eg. generalising all women as wanting to bang you, or as sluts, discussing or approving plans to forcibly have sex with a woman (ie. rape)? If stuff like that never occurs as part of "locker room talk", then many of the objections to it can probably be dis… | /r/MensRights | 11/04/21 10:47 PM |
| 10 | A little bit of performative masculinity, including "locker room talk" is positive and healthy for most malesDon't know why you got downvoted for asking for examples! I consider the terms TM and TF unhelpful, so I'm going to say "unhealthy or restrictive gender expectations" instead. You've already been given an example of unhealthy gender expectations on men. As an example of unhealthy gender expectations on women, I'd point to the negative ways women and girls sometimes operate in a social clique setting: manipulation, gossip, backstabbing, social isolating, etc. Boys can do this too, but these behav… | /r/MensRights | 11/04/21 10:19 PM |
| 8 | Men being held to gender roles is ruining my dreamsI guess it's possible that you'll find a female spouse that fits with your plans, but I tend to see kids as not guaranteed anyway - they depend on finding another person, on that other person wanting to have them, both of you being fertile and successful in having kids and the other person not wanting to have the role of primary caregiver too. I honestly would give this same advice to a woman too. Being a stay-at-home parent is admirable, but you need other strings to your bow too. Could you be … | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 11/04/21 10:00 PM |
| 5 | "Incel" should not be used as a pejorative to bring men downAre you saying it's not being increasingly used as a pejorative / insult for men who don't meet those criteria? | /r/MensRights | 11/04/21 09:11 PM |
| 3 | Why there's empathy for women and "Man Up" for menI am hoping for a different vision of masculinity and I do think providing a more female-derived (as you say) conception of empathy for men is the way to do it. If we observe that denying boys empathy creates bad outcomes, is it possible that the kind of male gender expectations we see as "traditional" today are not as universal in history and culture as we might think? As someone living in a nation with Anglo-Saxon culture as the dominant one, I wonder if the cold, chin up response has more to … | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 11/04/21 05:28 AM |
| 8 | Thoughts on this perspective? (genuinely asking)something like not going to the doctor for mental or physical health This ignores any number of other reasons that men may be less likely to go to the doctor, and assumes that current services for physical and mental health are equally effective for both men and women. through something like a gun Contrary to the slides above, men successfully commit suicide at rates 3 to 4 times those of women (in most developed countries) because current government suicide prevention strategies are less effect… | /r/MensRights | 10/04/21 06:34 AM |
| 2 | I just got told by a fellow man and his girlfriend that men can't be oppressed and that the world we live in is shaped by men's eyes.women are shoved into metaphorical cages to control them, and this has been happening for a long time. (this doesnt mean that men aren’t) So, men are controlling everything from their own cages? | /r/MensRights | 10/04/21 06:10 AM |
| 4 | Video Games Linked to Lower Depression Risk for BoysYes, I totally agree with your comments about the addictive nature of some of these gamification techniques. Some things are fine in moderation, but kids especially are not equipped to cope with it. As you say, the need for validation is actually being abused. | /r/MensRights | 10/04/21 02:02 AM |
| 1 | UK: Teaching union says 'toxic laddish culture' is rife in Britain's secondary schools where male staff and boys must be taught about sexismcorralling all of the male school children into a room and presenting material to them alone There are already programs in schools that do this, but not mandated or on a mass scale. In any case, I was talking about the article's headline which claims that male teachers specifically need to be taught. In terms of programs for students, I wrote a review of one such mandatory program that runs in my state of Victoria in Australia. As I conclude, it is needlessly gender-biased and assumes an unneces… | /r/MensRights | 10/04/21 01:49 AM |
| 18 | Video Games Linked to Lower Depression Risk for BoysOnly thing I'd disagree with is that it doesn't have to be violent games, and it doesn't have to be competition. Role playing games, strategy games, even farming sims can provide that rush of validation. It can come from other players in the case of multiplayer or co-op, or from the game itself. I'd say games also increasingly provide boys with worlds of story and characters that they used to get more from comics, TV and films. | /r/MensRights | 10/04/21 01:40 AM |
| 1 | UK: Teaching union says 'toxic laddish culture' is rife in Britain's secondary schools where male staff and boys must be taught about sexismWhat's your proposed solution? The teaching profession in western nations has been haemmoraging men for decades now, so it's not invalid to point to the need for more positive, healthy male role models. Sadly the minority men left in the system are then saddled with expectations that female staff are not (this is based on testimonies from teachers I have met). They're expected to be the disciplinarian and hard line, particularly in Primary settings where they may be the only male on staff. If th… | /r/MensRights | 09/04/21 11:54 PM |
| 92 | Video Games Linked to Lower Depression Risk for BoysThere's always healthy and unhealthy sides to everything, but I think a major positive thing games do well is providing a sense of Mastery - the satisfaction that comes from improving a skill and achieving. Maybe a lot of boys aren't getting that experience in other parts of their life | /r/MensRights | 09/04/21 11:25 PM |
| 11 | How Conservative Lawmakers Hurt MenIn general, I agree with the sentiment that traditional conservatives are often the enemy of men's advocacy, and that we should look for opportunities to widen our scope beyond just criticising feminism. It's interesting to me how this new law was conceived as an attempt to be consistent with an anti-abortion stance from a traditional conservative perspective. It's trying to address the accusation of hypocrisy that often comes from pro-choice / pro-abortion advocates: you just want to control wo… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 08/04/21 11:21 PM |
| 1 | The logic of x issue affecting men is actually caused by misogynyAlthough maybe only a minor contributor, I think there's some truth to that. Gay men are seen as being excused from the big gender social contract - they get to do whatever they want so they're not pulling their weight, like a confirmed bachelor who fritters away his life on drugs or something. The image of promiscuity up to the end of the 20th century didn't help either. EDIT: Added "seen as" or it could read as an endorsement of the perception! | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 08/04/21 11:01 PM |
| 2 | The logic of x issue affecting men is actually caused by misogynyI think it's true that many gay men have a complicated relationship with the notion and image of manliness, because it's something that many of us are attracted to as well as something that many of us strive to be ourselves. But I want to stress that, unless you have a very binary view of gender, wanting to be more masculine is not the same as wanting to be less feminine. This may have changed more recently, but for me in my young adult years the feeling was like I was on the outside of masculin… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 08/04/21 10:57 PM |
| 2 | Even when domestic violence is against men, it's about womenMachismo Still preferable to toxic masculinity though... | /r/MensRights | 08/04/21 09:39 AM |
| 10 | Australian government pressured to implement 55 recommendations from the Respect@Work Report. Such as recommendation 6 + 7 which when combined demand that only harassment against women is to be targeted.Wow, talk about the conclusion coming before the data. And it's literally in the following sentence! | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 08/04/21 09:37 AM |
| 5 | The logic of x issue affecting men is actually caused by misogynyI understand the point you're making about the ineffectualness of all these arguments, but I think OPs wider point is important. There is a pattern in these discussions to try to tie men's issues back to the familiar territory of issues that feminist models can explain and supposedly fix. I think this can have the effect of delegitimising alternative or novel approaches that might have a better chance of success. I often use the example of mental health and suicide prevention. If the only legiti… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 08/04/21 06:50 AM |
| 12 | List of buzzwords against male advocacy and their meaningJesus. That's really sick. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 08/04/21 05:43 AM |
| 15 | The logic of x issue affecting men is actually caused by misogynyYour post is getting at this, but erroneously suggests misogyny. However wrong it is, the argument is still used that male homosexuality is denigrated because it's connected with femininity, and therefore comes back to misogyny. I had someone use it with me a couple of weeks ago on Reddit. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 08/04/21 05:38 AM |
| 2 | Article about talking with, instead of at, boys and menit still assumes men are natural perps It's the opposite. He specifically points to a supposed culture among certain boys and men that has the effect of increasing sexual assault. Rather than boys needing to be taught not to rape, the contention is that boys are being taught to do so, or at least to be more tolerant of sexually abusive behaviour, to muddy the waters around what girls and women supposedly want, etc. I don't pretend to understand this particular culture among certain boys and men.… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 08/04/21 01:45 AM |
| 3 | Article about talking with, instead of at, boys and menTo answer your question, I think the long term effect of a program that effectively denies male victims and female perpetrators (despite giving a rare token admission about an insignificant number of male victims) is that these young men will have very maladaptive reactions when they face abuse of whatever kind from the women in their own relationships. They'll think "it's not supposed to happen to men". This is counterproductive in the extreme. And yes, it will also foster unhealthy reactionary… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 07/04/21 10:56 PM |
| 1 | Article about talking with, instead of at, boys and menYeah, I'm starting to think we have the worst of both worlds here when it comes to gender issues. On the one hand, we have some absolute dickheads in positions of power who really are genuine misogynists, pests, harassers and abusers of women. On the other hand, everyone else seems to have a strong chivalrous bent that jumps at the chance to paint women as helpless victims. Any time there's a media frenzy around female victims, everyone gets so worked up that they're willing to validate the most… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 07/04/21 10:44 PM |
| 2 | Article about talking with, instead of at, boys and menThis is a simple proposition. You would think so, but not in Australia, where the dominant model for education on violence is deliberately gender specific. For example, in the rollout of the Respectful Relationships curriculum (that I mentioned above), teachers undertaking the official training were told they were doing it wrong when they allowed a class discussion about both boys and girls being victims. This same curriculum is now being discussed as the the model for a mandatory consent educat… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 07/04/21 10:11 PM |
| 2 | Article about talking with, instead of at, boys and menOK, I strongly agree that 'teach men not to rape' is a damaging and sexist message, especially when said with conviction instead of with irony, which is how some people first used it. I think it is simplistic to say that it is mirrored by the message of this article, and by the type of programs run by the writer. "Teach men not to rape" implies that men are natural rapists unless specifically taught otherwise. I don't see the article writer saying that, and I doubt that he would agree with that,… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 07/04/21 10:03 PM |
| 7 | Article about talking with, instead of at, boys and menYeah, I read that as him responding to the current hot topic here, which has come from a series of high-profile cases of harassment against female politicians, ie. what "everyone" wants right now is to "keep women safe", and he's saying you're not even going to get that if all you're doing is blaming men. I agree that there are still further steps to go, but an article that remains completely gender neutral about victims and perpetrators simply would not be published here right now. I think it's… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 07/04/21 08:16 AM |
| 27 | Article about talking with, instead of at, boys and menI think, if done well, it can help to protect both men and women from being sexually assaulted, as well as from false accusation. I agree with other commenters that, if done poorly, it will just further demonise and alienate boys. Sadly, existing programs in Australia don't give me much hope. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 07/04/21 04:21 AM |
| 2 | Article about talking with, instead of at, boys and menmaybe don't refer to boys as perpetrators and girls as victims That's exactly the model that the writer of this piece is criticising, in the first quote I made from the article: ...the lens through which we view sexual assault remains trained on the victim-perpetrator paradigm. We must be conscious that just blaming men will not keep women safe. I'm interested in what programs you've looked up. I did a review of the Year 7&8 Respectful Relationships curriculum (mandatory in Victorian state and C… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 07/04/21 04:03 AM |
| 0 | Article about talking with, instead of at, boys and menteaching little boys that they are sinners I'm not seeing evidence of this in the article. What approach to the issue of sexual assault and harassment would actually satisfy you, other than not talking about it at all (at least with boys)? | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 07/04/21 02:49 AM |
| 5 | On male mental health: "Men should talk more"I'm sorry to hear about your experience. Did you find it was different with your male friends? I don't know your particular situation, but I wonder if your women friends were concerned about a romantic/sexual element potentially developing if they went any deeper in conversation with you. | /r/MensRights | 07/04/21 12:34 AM |
| 1 | Article about talking with, instead of at, boys and menI'm not sure what you're saying with this comment. Could you elaborate? | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 07/04/21 12:20 AM |
| 1 | It's hard getting mental health help and feeling like it works.I guess experiences vary. I had a female therapist and had a good experience. Maybe it also depends on the kind of personality a guy has, and the particular context he is working out his issues through. | /r/MensRights | 06/04/21 11:24 PM |
| 2 | A sexist trend against men in moviesDisney hasn't made a movie that has anything positive about boys in decades. Have you seen Disney-Pixar's Onward? It's a very positive story about two boys literally trying to recover their dad and go on an adventure together. There are female characters, but they're very much a side story to the main one about the boys. | /r/MensRights | 06/04/21 10:23 AM |
| 1 | What Is Gaslighting and How Feminists Use ItExcept it aims to tackle the root cause, a patriarchy that encourages an unhealthy, mostly unattainable, and unsustainable ideal of masculinity. Patriarchy is not necessarily the "root cause" of any of these things. Men kill themselves more because it’s not considered manly to ask for help. Or, because government initiatives for mental health and suicide prevention don't recognise men's particular needs or cater to them. eg. They often work from prior diagnoses of depression, which is more commo… | /r/MensRights | 06/04/21 07:48 AM |
| 1 | Lord of all Lies. One if the oldest tales of toxic masculinity debunked. Boys stuck on a deserted island for over year do not descend into violence. In fact cooperation and organization saved them.know that men, just like women, run the gamut from assholes to saints I don't think the danger is all men being seen as assholes, but all men being seen as dangerous / loose cannons. The notion is not new that men, having access to certain kinds of power that most women have not had, are potentially dangerous, if boys are not guided, challenged, initiated and affirmed by their community. It's right there in the well-known proverb, "The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down t… | /r/MensRights | 06/04/21 02:43 AM |
| 1 | Lord of all Lies. One if the oldest tales of toxic masculinity debunked. Boys stuck on a deserted island for over year do not descend into violence. In fact cooperation and organization saved them.I agree that OP draws a long bow to tie TM to Lord of the Flies, though I think that many people would be inclined to interpret the book that way in today's climate. Think about it this way: If, as you say, most people see TM as describing negative traits inherent to men rather than social/cultural gender expectations, this is a very dangerous place for the definition to be. It's a very short jump from there to seeing it as traits that all men have naturally/biologically, just waiting to come th… | /r/MensRights | 06/04/21 01:52 AM |
| 2 | Lord of all Lies. One if the oldest tales of toxic masculinity debunked. Boys stuck on a deserted island for over year do not descend into violence. In fact cooperation and organization saved them.Those other positive traits of masculinity are declining each generation as there is a huge cultural shift Do you see new or re-evaluated positive traits of masculinity eventually emerging (once the dust settles), and is it possible to predict what those might be? It's been argued that there are common elements around male gender expectations across almost all cultures: protecting, providing, etc. Whatever new traits emerge will probably connect with those elements in some way. "Hard work" is an… | /r/MensRights | 06/04/21 01:43 AM |
| 3 | Lord of all Lies. One if the oldest tales of toxic masculinity debunked. Boys stuck on a deserted island for over year do not descend into violence. In fact cooperation and organization saved them.I think the average person would define TM simply as "the negative parts" of masculinity, with simple examples like "getting in lots of fights" or "being overly aggressive." Even then, this is not the original definition of the term, which was about the mutation of male gender expectations due to the modern breakdown of transmission of healthy, authentic masculinity, combined with the modern crisis around masculine identity. I think conversations like this would be 1000x easier if there were som… | /r/MensRights | 06/04/21 01:12 AM |
| 2 | Objectification of menThe post is about men. There's a million articles about issues affecting women that don't mention men - do you demand that each of these show the flip-side too? | /r/MensRights | 06/04/21 01:03 AM |
| 1 | Lord of all Lies. One if the oldest tales of toxic masculinity debunked. Boys stuck on a deserted island for over year do not descend into violence. In fact cooperation and organization saved them.It seems to me that a common (mis)understanding of TM is that it is a natural outcome of patriarchy, a system in which men have the power. If men are alone on an island then men have all the power, so we would logically expect TM to come through in it's most extreme, right? EDIT: I'm talking about the way TM has become conflated with the academic concept of Hegemonic Masculinity. The term is so far from what it was originally intended to convey. | /r/MensRights | 06/04/21 12:49 AM |
| 3 | Gynocentrism and The Male GazeLate to respond here, but your idea around negative elements of "female culture" being ignored strikes me as something that's not universal, especially if you read texts/scriptures from ancient cultures that were less individualistic and more communitarian. eg. the Judeo-Christian scriptures contain numerous passages about the disastrous ramifications of gossip, presenting it in dramatically dire terms, and other passages that pick up on some of those other negative behaviours that we associate … | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 06/04/21 12:34 AM |
| 11 | The Red Pill Rage: How much anger is tolerable?I have zero experience with red pill communities, so I don't feel like I have much authority to add to this discussion. But one thing I have heard is that these communities are more prone to reactionaryism when there is a lot of churn of participants, because most of the guys who have passed through the cathartic/anger stage don't stick around to provide balance and calmness to the community. That these communities are so condemned by the wider culture and are sometimes shut down probably contri… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 05/04/21 11:08 PM |
| 2 | Does anyone else sometimes struggle with jealousy of women's gender role?Damn, those are difficult childhood experiences. It makes me kind of thankful that I was such a late bloomer and lived so much in my own head as a kid. I don't remember even having a crush on another guy until after school, but I can totally see how a kid could struggle to hide those feelings for a straight friend, or struggle with how to deal with them appropriately. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 05/04/21 10:43 PM |
| 2 | My 7th grade English teacher fed feminist ideologyI literally said "assuming this is true" when you introduced the supposed trend around jobs where women dominate. I don't have evidence that the phenomenon even exists. I don't feel strongly one way or another whether the lifetime earnings gap exists, and I'm not really interested in talking about it. As for the supposed pay gap, I've generally only worked in jobs where pay is regulated, not negotiated on an individual basis. I'd personally like it if all jobs were like that. | /r/MensRights | 05/04/21 11:49 AM |
| 1 | My 7th grade English teacher fed feminist ideologyIs this discussion some kind of game to you, trying to catch me out saying the wrong thing? You're not responding to any actual argument I've put in, so you can consider this my last response. When you brought up the supposed phenomenon of increasingly feminised job areas experiencing declining or stagnating pay and attributed it to misogyny, I gave you a possible explanation that is consistent with gender expectations on men to be providers. You then falsely asserted that I was endorsing such a… | /r/MensRights | 05/04/21 11:32 AM |
| 2 | My 7th grade English teacher fed feminist ideologyYou said that it was more critical that men get paid more as an inverse evidence to how important it is they provide. You're mistaking an observation for an endorsement. I'm not going to entertain this accusation a third time. I agree we can explain the different expectations by looking at the legacy, however that doesn’t explain the reason behind them. The reason is that it was efficient for survival or civilisational stability under particular historical conditions, and then it became useful t… | /r/MensRights | 05/04/21 11:01 AM |
| 2 | My 7th grade English teacher fed feminist ideologySo you argue that men should, by default, be paid more than women over societal expectations? If you think I'm arguing for that, this conversation is over. We're talking about how things were/are, not how they should be. I'm simply saying that we can explain the differing expectations around providing vs. nurturing by pointing to a legacy system of gender role assignment. Adding the element of misogyny / superiority is unnecessary and fails Occam's Razor. | /r/MensRights | 05/04/21 10:38 AM |
| 2 | My 7th grade English teacher fed feminist ideologythe pay stagger and sometimes fall a bit, due to the perception that it becomes a ‘woman’s job’ Assuming the above is true, it could again be taken as inverse evidence - that men are still expected to be providers, so it's more critical that they be paid accordingly. So yes, the job is less valued in terms of pay, but this needn't imply that the increasing number of women who do that job are less valued as people. What is applauded when archived by women, is simply expected standard for men - in… | /r/MensRights | 05/04/21 09:47 AM |
| 2 | My 7th grade English teacher fed feminist ideologyJudging the relative value of providing vs nurturing by comparing pay makes for a circular argument, since pay is obviously connected to providing. As for status, this is in turn connected to pay and (historically) to long-term commitment to the furthering of an enterprise or organisation, all things that men were expected to do. I taught high school students for over a decade. In my country (unlike the US), the pay is reasonable but, as a career with regulated salary and fairly secure employmen… | /r/MensRights | 05/04/21 08:12 AM |
| 2 | My 7th grade English teacher fed feminist ideologyDefine "superior". One is expected to provide, the other to nurture. One is provided with power and conditional respect as long as they continue to provide. The other is provided with wellbeing and conditional respect as long as they continue to nurture. | /r/MensRights | 05/04/21 07:00 AM |
| 3 | My 7th grade English teacher fed feminist ideologyEverything you've said could be reframed inversely: "these policies are still rooted in a somewhat misandristic understanding of the dynamic between men and women "Men are in all of these decisions positioned as being unable to take care of children, placing the woman as a natural nurturer, regardless of circumstances. "they aren’t based in hate for women, but happen as “natural” consequences of a society that is build upon the idea the woman as the only one able to actually nurture a family, an… | /r/MensRights | 05/04/21 06:45 AM |
| 5 | Gynocentrism and The Male Gazethe cover of any romance novel I guess I'm kind of a prude, but I get a shock when an online book store mistakenly thinks I'm looking for a racy romance series for women and my browser is suddenly painted with wall-to-wall shirtless hunks, or even just close-ups of their tattooed pecs and abs. There are so many of these books! The lists go on into the tens/hundreds of thousands. I think it should be added, though, that male objectification may appear differently to female objectification. I've b… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 05/04/21 01:23 AM |
| 1 | If you don’t already know about Beau of the Fifth Column (aka Justin King) he is my personal favorite touchstone on this issue.I guess I'd rather model myself off a number of fictional characters than off this guy - someone who defines masculinity as if it's some teenage Zen koan about coolness ("Wanting to be cool is not cool.") | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 03/04/21 09:04 PM |
| 1 | If you don’t already know about Beau of the Fifth Column (aka Justin King) he is my personal favorite touchstone on this issue.I'll accept that I might not connect with specific American cultural baggage, but I still think his approach to masculinity is unhelpful. It's a big temptation among progressives to attempt to replace negative male gender expectations with what they see as positive ones. This often takes the form of universal virtues (at least as defined by the current left) combined with the reintroduction of selected parts of older masculine models; chivalry, selflessness, hard work, etc. In other words, one s… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 03/04/21 08:50 PM |
| 2 | If you don’t already know about Beau of the Fifth Column (aka Justin King) he is my personal favorite touchstone on this issue.Yeah, I've given this guy a few different views and I have to conclude that he doesn't work for me. In particular, I think his messaging on masculinity is off. eg. In the video about TM and the Gillette ad, he goes down the usual route of "if you didn't like it, you're toxic." Mocks those who complain. Holds up universal virtues as masculine attributes - thereby reinforcing masculinity as performative. "My 12-year-old is 'more of a man' than these guys" - yuck. As for the style, his whole schtic… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 03/04/21 08:34 AM |
| 3 | Are there "Alpha" and "Beta" men?This made me wonder about the supposed Madonna / Whore Dichotomy that is sometimes attributed to men. I'm not sure if there's any real evidence for that either, of course, but I wonder if it has some parallels with this idea that women's attractions as well as their selection of male sexual partners might change depending on an instinctual or socialised strategy. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 02/04/21 12:45 AM |
| 18 | If I could tell this person the kind of straw man they were putting out there, I would. If the genders were reversed and it said that "women defend this kind of discrimination", only then would the bigotry be seen for what it is.Who on earth says "it's weak to be scared after a few bad experiences"? That person would be an arsehole. I've heard people question whether it's OK to judge and condemn a whole group because of bad experiences, but that's a far cry from judging someone for being "scared". | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 02/04/21 12:34 AM |
| 4 | If you want to complain about men's mental health and "male violence", look at how society is treating them firstThere are also a number of other causes that can be pointed to: Generally healthy men tend to be exposed less to medical care throughout the first half of their lives than generally healthy women, who have mandatory screenings, appointments related to pregnancy, etc. With longer working hours on average, men have less time to access health care services where mental health conditions are often first identified and treatment prescribed. In any case, it's good to know that there are increasing num… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 01/04/21 10:06 PM |
| 4 | If you want to complain about men's mental health and "male violence", look at how society is treating them firstI've been pretty happy with "unhealthy gender expectations on men" or "restrictive gender expectations on men". I think that's pretty clear. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 01/04/21 09:43 AM |
| 6 | If you want to complain about men's mental health and "male violence", look at how society is treating them firstuninformed people have a kneejerk reaction and decide that "toxic gendered expectations" is sexist I think this misunderstands the issue with how "toxic masculinity" is read/misread, which is the colocation of the words "toxic" and "masculinity". The latter is variously understood to mean manliness, manhood, maleness and social expectations. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 01/04/21 08:12 AM |
| 9 | If you want to complain about men's mental health and "male violence", look at how society is treating them firstThe thing I often come back to is this: When and why did terms like "toxic masculinity" become popularised in the last few years? Was it because society suddenly started giving a shit about men and the gender expectations that fall on them? No, it was because of #metoo. That pretty much says it all. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 31/03/21 09:57 PM |
| 8 | If you want to complain about men's mental health and "male violence", look at how society is treating them firstJust want to say, great points. I feel like sometimes "patriarchy" is just a stand-in term for "the way things are" or "the status quo". It's so broad and all-encompassing that you may as well just say "societal gender norms". Other times, you get "a term used to reference society that just happened to have more men than women in leadership roles", as in a different thread on this post. So is the defining characteristic that men are in power, or not? | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 31/03/21 09:50 PM |
| 29 | If you want to complain about men's mental health and "male violence", look at how society is treating them firstIt's not necessarily just religion but any ideological mindset that needs to fit all incoming data into a pre-defined system of problem + solution. This happened to me recently - a commenter picked up on a comment I made weeks ago in order to tell me that I should be a feminist to fix these problems. When I tried to expand the conversation and suggest other models or solutions, they didn't even argue with me, but just kept insisting that I should still be a feminist. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 31/03/21 01:09 AM |
| 6 | If you want to complain about men's mental health and "male violence", look at how society is treating them firstI'd say it's very difficult to measure or quantify experiences of alienation. It's not necessarily driven by such obvious things as outright statements of "we hate you". It can also be argued that men and women as groups might have different proportions of types of responses to feeling alienated, whether because of culture, biology, or a combination of both. eg. Maybe most men have internal or self-destructive responses, but more men than women respond with violence toward others. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 31/03/21 01:03 AM |
| 1 | What am I missing? (don't kill me! Genuinely curious)I think others have answered the question here with stats and you can find personal anecdotes too, both here and in other men's subs. Personal anecdotes occasionally come out in droves on more general subs when the right questions are asked, eg. men who have been abused and have nowhere to turn, suffered from intimate partner violence, suicide, men who experience profound loneliness and don't realise it until someone else shares the same, men who have to deal with others who are afraid of them f… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 30/03/21 09:08 PM |
| 3 | How Does This Advert Make You Feel As A Man?I had in mind certain tribes where, if a man is witnessed spending time alone with a woman, it automatically means that they're getting married. But I don't think we're going to get back to that extreme! The return of cultural norms restricting male-female interaction would probably be a mixed bag. It seems like the current situation around dating, flirting and sexual dalliances could potentially be improved if there were more commonly-agreed rules. It might mean less tragic/dangerous situations… | /r/MensRights | 28/03/21 09:20 PM |
| 16 | How Does This Advert Make You Feel As A Man?I feel like the brits really know how to make something look and feel dystopian. At first blush, I'd agree with a commenter at the original post and say that this has a weird gender segregation vibe, and I'm aware of the wider context and the purpose of these "rules". On the other hand, maybe our culture's brief experiment with men and women interacting freely in any public situation was never meant to last. This could be the beginning of the re-establishment of the usual rules and taboos around… | /r/MensRights | 28/03/21 08:52 PM |
| 2 | Paternity Leave is beneficial for everybodyYeah, I'm not going to have an argument around libertarianism. We can agree to disagree, but I think paternity leave is one way to move the cultural needle around certain issues that people on this sub bemoan, like men not being taken as seriously as parents. | /r/MensRights | 28/03/21 11:19 AM |
| 2 | Paternity Leave is beneficial for everybodyYou'd have to agree that there is value to a community in dads being given the opportunity and impetus to be more involved in their kids' lives. | /r/MensRights | 28/03/21 10:43 AM |
| 1 | Internalized misandryThat you answered negative to a series of questions doesn't necessarily mean that the OP is projecting and generalising. I would probably answer negative to most of them too, but I'm willing to believe that there are many who wouldn't. | /r/MensRights | 27/03/21 12:56 AM |
| 3 | Men do not seem like they are proud to be men. And this is detrimental to their mental health. We need to celebrate men instead of demonizing them.There's an obvious difference between being proud to be one thing and not wanting to be identified as another thing. You may as well say that golf players are proud to be golf players just because they disagree if someone tells them they're football players. | /r/MensRights | 27/03/21 12:50 AM |
| 5 | High-school boys made to stand and apologise for being maleYeah, these gaps are always tolerated and justified with one of two excuses: Girls are just "better readers", etc. Boys have more access to employment (like trades) after school, so I guess they don't need a sound education. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 26/03/21 05:25 AM |
| 8 | Yes. That's the point. It never is.It may not be so directly intentional, but it does serve a purpose of distracting people from issues of class and the direction of economies. Gender issues are a lightning rod for feelings of aggrievement (on both sides). | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 26/03/21 05:20 AM |
| 11 | Showerthought: Masculine traits are only considered positive when expressed by females.fierce Outside of maybe sporting fields, this term is entirely negative when applied to men, implying violent or threatening behaviour. When was the last time you heard a man referred to as fierce in a positive way? As for "strong", the conversation suffers from lack of nuance. I think many boys/men are receiving a false message that it's bad to be strong because it means you can't accept weakness or that you can't ask for help. I'd say "brave" is more positive overall, though it is rarely appli… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 26/03/21 05:17 AM |
| 9 | In an increasingly feminized world, do you think more male-only spaces would create healthier boys and men?I strongly believe that the return of healthy male-only social spaces will be an important part of improving men's wellbeing over the next few decades. By this, I don't mean political or activism spaces (whether left or right). I mean groups based around interests, hobbies, sports, etc. Ones that are formal and ones that are informal. I think we have to accept that many male-only spaces have not been perfect in the past. This is one of the reasons that they declined from 1960-2010. Other reasons… | /r/MensRights | 23/03/21 06:33 AM |
| 1 | Men in leftist subs are asking how they can be better allies when they've never seen men being abusive in real lifeIn all seriousness, I think this type of "humour" harms men and men's advocacy, and I see it way too often on men's subs. Think about the gender expectations inherent in it: that if a man takes a social or political stance that you don't like because it seems weak, or kowtows to the wrong cause, he is a cuckold. People can't upvote this and then complain about unfair or ignorant attitudes society has about male sexual nature. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 23/03/21 03:04 AM |
| 17 | Mason Black’s misandrist speech will damage boysHaving never attended an all-boys school, I always find the tone of these speeches / messages by school captains very alien; addressing their peers with "boys, this" and "boys, that". I would have had zero respect for another kid at my school giving a sanctimonious speech to tell me how to behave, especially one with a title bestowed by the adults in charge. Having said all that, "Stop being boys" is probably the worst message you can give to a group of humans who are boys. What a messed up doub… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 22/03/21 10:01 PM |
| 1 | Male gender of victim used to dodge moral questions in teacher-student TV seriesFiction isn't there to have everybody in it behave decently. This is normally true. But the bounds of what is tolerable wax and wane. Right now we're in an era of moral frenzy around a particular set of issues, hence the repeated pattern of cancellation of historical works. The purpose of my post was to look at a potential inconsistency in societal attitude as revealed by the choices made to bring a more "palatable" TV series to air. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 22/03/21 09:28 PM |
| 6 | Men in leftist subs are asking how they can be better allies when they've never seen men being abusive in real lifeBy asserting that the focus of critique and blame is predominantly on powerful men ("Scott Alexander, a widely read blogger, criticizes the focus on sexual assaults committed by powerful men"), she's leaving out a big element of this conversation, and I would suggest that this is deliberate. It can't have escaped her notice that public opinions on this topic are frequently connected with gender, not merely power. Here's a piece in my local broadsheet from the last few days. Here's an editorial f… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 22/03/21 04:27 AM |
| 5 | Men in leftist subs are asking how they can be better allies when they've never seen men being abusive in real lifeWell, she needs to put a spam filter on her blogspot comment system. To me, her particular angle on the issue is pretty clearly shown in the title. 'No, Scott Alexander, the focus on powerful men’s sexual assaults is not “a hit job” on men' She repeats the qualifier "powerful" in front of "men" several times, and only ever talks about situations involving powerful men, clearly implying that the blame has never been expanded to any other male abuser, let alone to men who are not abusers at all. I… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 22/03/21 03:42 AM |
| 6 | Male gender of victim used to dodge moral questions in teacher-student TV seriesI agree that is very disturbing. I would maybe point to the shows being different in a couple of ways: That show introduced that element in 2010. 10 years might not seem a lot, but in the case of this issue I think it is. That's a timespan during which there was a major royal commission in my country, and in which many jurisdictions brought in tougher rules for environments where adults work with children. If I understand it correctly, that show wasn't themed around the topic of teacher-student … | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 22/03/21 03:24 AM |
| 1 | [X-post from r/science] New "scientific study" links mass shooters to "masculine overcompensation" and toxic masculinity.You seem to be using the possession of ovaries and a womb as the line of what qualifies as innateness, so what about women who are infertile? Or who don't want to have kids? Do they miss out on innate value, or do they just get it anyway because they're still part of the right group? What happens if/when we have artificial wombs? It's one thing to recognise the reality of Precarious Manhood, the sociological idea that men have often had to prove themselves, but it's another thing to rubberstamp … | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 19/03/21 09:28 PM |
| 1 | [X-post from r/science] New "scientific study" links mass shooters to "masculine overcompensation" and toxic masculinity.Being the guy who knows all the staff at the coffee shop, is a dad, an uncle, a nephew, a role model, the guy who plays goalie, sings bass in the chorus, knows what to say when one of the other guys is down, or the guy who always brings the donuts to the community meeting, who knows all the rules for that complicated tabletop game, who would be missed by the dog club if he was gone, the guy who loves woodworking and spelunking, feels deeply about nature. Or the guy who brings his switch so we ca… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 19/03/21 11:33 AM |
| 7 | [X-post from r/science] New "scientific study" links mass shooters to "masculine overcompensation" and toxic masculinity.A man being part of society and belonging is a fleeting thing, it's not something he can ever take as a given. I've got problems with this narrative. I'm not sure if you're saying "this is how it is now", or "this is how it's always been", or even "this is how it should be". Many societies and communities throughout history have made a place for men and boys to belong in different ways (not always perfectly of course). Innate value to a community can be asserted outside of biological necessity a… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 19/03/21 06:30 AM |
| 2 | What policies would you like to see enacted in your country to help improve men and boys' lives?Yeah, I agree. I recall that there is more solid evidence that girls perform better educationally in single-sex schools, but less so boys. I have heard that there can be value in splitting boys and girls up for particular classes within a mixed school. It has been suggested that boys can perform better in English / Humanities when girls are not present. In terms of social development and unhealthy attitudes about gender, it seems that all-boys schools can vary wildly depending on the culture wit… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 18/03/21 03:22 AM |
| 1 | Men are responsible for male violenceSocial Media and the Internet hasn't been great lately for our collective ability to listen. From the point of view of mass media, there is some responsibility on the person speaking to communicate in a way that is relatable to the specific person or group that is the target listener. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 17/03/21 06:11 AM |
| 4 | Men are responsible for male violenceYeah, some of it may be the wording of "responsible" and "accountable". My impression is that many men have a mindset that looks for take-aways that are actionable, so vague, unactionable language can be frustrating. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 17/03/21 05:54 AM |
| 4 | Men are responsible for male violenceSo none of those things apply to me. What am I required to do? I don't "open doors for a lady". I don't hang out with people who tell misogynistic jokes. I don't have children. My partner and I share household duties, but neither of us are women. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 17/03/21 05:45 AM |
| 4 | So after how many years of saying there no differences between men and women, we've finally reached this pointViolence against men is committed by people who believe that they're attacking a fair target. Can you clarify what you/Farrell mean by "fair"? Do you mean that men are seen as a valid target, even if they are outclassed, outnumbered, outweaponed, and/or vulnerable for some other reason (eg. age)? | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 17/03/21 04:51 AM |
| 12 | The word simp and beta and really need to go. They hold us backApart from anything else, they're also very immature "schoolyard" insults that don't belong in a discourse that wants any respect from the wider culture. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 16/03/21 05:04 AM |
| 2 | What is the perception of men's advocacy amongst queer (LGBT+) people?You'll have to forgive me because you're providing a lot more nuance here than you did in your opening comments: i mean mens advocacy issues are all feminist issues that are addressed by leftist feminism mens issues are a result of an idea of what men are and what women are that flows entirely from patriarchy I took those opening comments to mean that you believe feminism is the only way to address all men's problems, and that proceeding according to feminist models and principles will resolve a… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 16/03/21 03:00 AM |
| 2 | What is the perception of men's advocacy amongst queer (LGBT+) people?I'm going to respond to what I see as the core of your argument with me here: solving the issues that feminism wishes to address solves mens issues by default because our issues primarly stem from the patriarchy also basically you are understanding and seeing problems. But not understanding that the root cause of many of these issues you are accurately pointing out is that a lot (though not the entirety of) the concept of masculinity is defined by being not feminine. and thats something we need … | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 16/03/21 01:19 AM |
| 2 | What is the perception of men's advocacy amongst queer (LGBT+) people?The impression I get from your reply is that you are trying to make a whole range of phenomena fit your particular explanatory model, and only your model. Further, bringing in all the qualifiers around sexuality, race, class and gender expression is not consistent with the original feminist definition of patriarchy, as far as I'm aware, which is about the oppression of women, not everyone except a small group of men. And, yes, I've read Bell Hooks and I'm aware that it's now OK to say that the p… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 15/03/21 09:34 PM |
| 2 | What is the perception of men's advocacy amongst queer (LGBT+) people?You're not saying anything I haven't heard before. Patriarchy is a concept that is concerned with power. As such, it has been exceptionally useful for women's issues that stemmed from a lack of access to power. Many men's issues instead stem from a lack of access to empathy and wellbeing. If you think that this means I'm blaming women, I'm not. Both men and women perpetuate the legacy system of gender norms we have. Saying that men were mostly responsible for creating that system misses the poin… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 15/03/21 10:53 AM |
| 1 | What is the perception of men's advocacy amongst queer (LGBT+) people?I'm not convinced that they are, nor that patriarchy is a concept that is ideal for approaching men's issues. Anyway, I'm not against you. Feminism is about and for women (as has been confirmed to me by many feminists), and that's fine. I don't see a need to change that because there are still things to be done for women. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 15/03/21 09:50 AM |
| 5 | Men “not being green” and “not recycling” is homophobic and contributing to the patriarchyMore selfless? Talk about being ignorant of the social expectations placed on men. | /r/MensRights | 12/03/21 08:26 AM |
| 5 | Someone recently posted about the Rebel Girls books that highlight great women from history to inspire our girls. (That I own!) They expressed a wish that the same existed for boys... Well, I went looking and found a similar book that looks GREAT for our boys!I remember hearing about this one. I'd be curious to hear about the "spread" of the men featured, eg. Does there seem to be a political or philosophical bias in who is chosen and how they're represented. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 12/03/21 04:46 AM |
| 5 | "Are we falling boys in America" radio program where Kerri Miller speaks with Emma Brown... an investigative journalist at The Washington Post and the authorCould you give a bit of a summary of the points you like or points you disagree with? Even though I wrote a negative comment on how this book was presented a few days ago, I thought this quote is promising (supposedly from the book itself): “I thought we needed to raise our sons differently in order to protect our daughters,” she writes in her new book, “To Raise a Boy.” “Now, after spending time in the world of boys, I understand that we also need to raise our sons differently for their own sak… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 12/03/21 04:32 AM |
| 3 | The gender bias in how we raise children.Lots of feminists believe abusive men are created by misogyny. That these men were taught misogynistic beliefs, and this lead to them becoming abusers. The idea that family violence is due to views about gender forms the basis for many government-funded approaches to tackling family violence in Australia, such as the Respectful Relationships mandatory school program in Victoria. I'm not going to rule it out completely and say that it can't be a factor in many instances of family violence, but I … | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 11/03/21 09:36 PM |
| 10 | "Women And The Pandemic"I don't think you need to get zinged! I think the challenge with these books dedicated to a particular gender is that they are partly motivational and partly informational. There's a sense of "these are great women and you can be too". So it's not that boys aren't exposed to important historical figures, a large number of whom are men. It's just that boys perhaps miss out on the motivational part. I've been toying with the idea of a book for younger boys that talks about the many less celebrated… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 11/03/21 05:13 AM |
| 5 | Before even knowing about this group, I started on a little mission. And because of this group, I realize that my mission might be pretty important. Will you help support it?Just watched the first video and I liked your list of things to look for. I sought out therapy/counselling for the first time in 2020 (just before COVID) and then continued it over the phone. It was prompted by what I later realised was an anxiety attack while on holiday. Rather than "stuck", I'd describe the first thing as "flat". I didn't feel enthusiasm for anything, but I also didn't feel sad. A friend who was also a counsellor was very careful with words when I mentioned it to her - she pro… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 11/03/21 04:42 AM |
| 5 | Why people always say "women and people of color" ? why putting women in one category with POC ?So the lesson for men like me is that I probably will be alone in most journeys throughout life, and the sooner we accept it, the better we are in the future. I think you've got to also note that this is probably the most individualistic and isolated time ever in history. Even if it is true that men are less biologically inclined towards in-group bias, one of the ways human cultures countered this was with men's groups and men's social outlets. Where biology fails, social structures make it up. … | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 10/03/21 09:26 PM |
| 1 | y tho?gendered marketing like this for women would provoke a shitstorm on the company selling it, while it seems to be totally ok with girls There is heaps of gendered marketing towards adults, both men and women. It's just more subtle, but it goes as far as completely different prices for the exact same product in different packaging. (Sometimes this is in men's favour, other times in women's favour.) | /r/MensRights | 10/03/21 09:17 PM |
| 1 | Why is toxic femininity never discussed?I don't expect feminism to fix everything on its own. Some of these things (like paternity leave) might get more traction if they are presented as having value for men and children, not just for women's careers. This is something men need to advocate for. | /r/MensRights | 10/03/21 06:02 AM |
| 2 | Why is toxic femininity never discussed?Yeah, it must be because a tiny movement of men that either gets ignored or labelled as "incels" has been holding things back. BTW, I may comment on this sub, but it doesn't mean I'm anti-feminism or advocating against feminism. The same is true for many of the people here. | /r/MensRights | 10/03/21 04:21 AM |
| 2 | Why is toxic femininity never discussed?It's well known that feminists faced opposition from women in the early days. I don't have a specific source for you, but obviously the same opposition from women around work is not as much now. I'm not here to have a debate with you about expectations placed on women. I merely disputed your statement that the things suggested by OP "be the bread winner, strong, tall, give his life for his wife" all come from men's desires and not at all from women's. Yeah, I've heard that feminists want paterni… | /r/MensRights | 10/03/21 03:32 AM |
| 45 | The gender bias in how we raise children.What she discovers is that men, like women, suffer dangerous gender stereotypes Is it just me getting tired of these writers discovering this stuff for the first time like it's brand new knowledge, and only after it starts affecting women and girls? It's like, congrats you figured out that a legacy social system of gender norms and expectations actually affects both genders. What a shock! We knew this 50 years ago. the article titled "Emma Brown on how to stop our sons from growing up into monst… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 10/03/21 01:26 AM |
| 2 | I saw Spotify had a new "Equal" genre today while browsing... Decided to check it out..I don't know if you can ban someone for just being a pest. | /r/MensRights | 10/03/21 01:12 AM |
| 3 | Is bringing up paternity taboo?Is it not okay to talk about paternity? A lot of people here disputing the statistic, which is fine, but I think your question is an interesting one. Yes, I think it is taboo. It's connected with: infidelity shame / cuckoldry (for real, not a fetish) biological offspring that are already here, part of the family My parents are disappointed that the family name will end with me, and that's just a word, not even a person! The decision to know if your child is your biological offspring is obviously… | /r/MensRights | 10/03/21 01:00 AM |
| 1 | y tho?I think you've answered a big part of the question right there: Gendered marketing means there are whole ranges of toys that are deliberately marketed as girls' toys. Are you looking for the typical "patriarchy" answer? That men face toxic gender expectations that make it shameful for boys to like anything associated with girls because it is seen as lesser or weak by the patriarchy? It's kind of hard to tell when the kind of dolls you're talking about are explicitly promoted as girls' toys. Ther… | /r/MensRights | 10/03/21 12:32 AM |
| 1 | y tho?One toy is still seen as more specifically gendered than the other. A lot of parents would still show concern if their daughters were only playing with male action figures and toy soldiers, because those are still more male-associated than remote controlled cars. Instead of dolls, consider an example that has less direct female gender association today than it did in the past, like a cooking set. | /r/MensRights | 09/03/21 11:35 PM |
| 6 | I feel like this sub is slacking in our goalOK, so you may not be getting a lot of support for this post, but I don't think it's because everyone disagrees in principle. It's because you haven't proposed anything specific and actionable. Everything you've said could be summed up with "do better somehow". Maybe pick a specific issue that you want to see progress in and post about what you'd like to do on that specific issue. | /r/MensRights | 09/03/21 11:26 PM |
| 1 | I feel like this sub is slacking in our goalI really can't tell if you're being sarcastic / trolling or not anymore. If you are, what exactly is the goal you want to achieve with comments like this? | /r/MensRights | 09/03/21 11:24 PM |
| 2 | Why is toxic femininity never discussed?Of course many women desire those traits but what choice do they have if they’re expected to follow the traits of a traditional woman? Outside of the developing world, who's expecting this of women now? In my country we even have subsidised childcare (and, tellingly, almost zero paternity leave). I definitely think women have a huge role in perpetuating those stereotypes Cool. Glad we agree. it’s not usually women who are creating pushback when women try to leave the home and enter the workforce… | /r/MensRights | 09/03/21 09:49 PM |
| 3 | Why is toxic femininity never discussed?Since Toxic Masculinity is such a disaster of a term and has become such a poorly defined concept, I see no point in bringing up Toxic Femininity except to point out that it didn't become a buzzword like TM did (due to #metoo). | /r/MensRights | 09/03/21 09:39 PM |
| 3 | Why is toxic femininity never discussed?Your definition of toxic masculinity stems from men’s desires. I don't agree with these definitions anyway, but are you kidding? It's clear that many women desire those traits in a man. Stop trying to make it seem like only men are responsible for gendered expectations. | /r/MensRights | 09/03/21 09:33 PM |
| 5 | There are a lot of supportive comments in this post about the issues we face. Xpost - In a world where body shaming and sexual comments against women are rightfully not tolerated, why are small penis jokes still fair game?Good to hear that there's a growing intolerance for this. In the end, it's just another way to bring someone down - one that has remained acceptable for longer than many others. No one wants to be told that they've done something they know is hurtful with no positive outcome at all, so it's defended as "punching up". | /r/MensRights | 09/03/21 09:27 PM |
| 6 | Telling boys to just “not rape” people is very lazy advice that doesn’t actually address the problemToday I read an opinion piece on this from a clinical and forensic psychologist. My experience with perpetrators has shown me that a significant majority of men who sexually victimise women have some understanding that they are breaching boundaries. This understanding is likely somewhat amorphous, but is nevertheless present. Perpetrators often know that consent has not been given, but ignore this. If we consider other forms of crime (child sexual abuse, violent offences, theft), we see similar … | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 09/03/21 05:18 AM |
| 9 | Of course this was going to be hereThe generalisation in the post title. I have IMD in my calendar every year and I use it to raise awareness about all sorts of men's issues. It's handy that it falls during Movember too. | /r/MensRights | 09/03/21 12:36 AM |
| 4 | Wishing a Happy Women’s Day to all women who are willing to fight for equal rights and treatment of their fathers, sons and partnersThere are some in this sub who deny that any historical oppression of women happened at all. I wouldn't say they represent the sub as a whole, though. | /r/MensRights | 09/03/21 12:23 AM |
| 2 | Can someone explain to me how every day is international men’s day?When someone says this, they are suggesting that the particular advantages men have (especially historically) are the only thing that matters when it comes to having a calendar day to celebrate a particular gender. They maybe view International Women's Day only in terms of acknowledging specific achievements they attribute to the women's rights movements and feminism, like women voting, working in previously male-dominated fields, etc. and in order to raise awareness of further gains they percei… | /r/MensRights | 08/03/21 10:26 PM |
| 5 | Grand romantic Gestures in Rom-Coms are anti-male.Modern rom-coms assume a female audience and reflect the ambivalent attitude society has towards chivalry. You can see this at the start of the most recent wave with films like Sleepless in Seattle that deliberately hark back to old romance films. The message: women don't want that old-fashioned stuff, unless they do. When it's done by the right kind of guy in the right kind of circumstance, it's romantic. Otherwise it's sexist or creepy. This genre still has incredibly sexist double-standards t… | /r/MensRights | 08/03/21 10:17 PM |
| 5 | The pejorative term "manchild" is part of a pattern of gender norm enforcement where men are expected to spend their hard earned money on women and children instead of on themselves and their hobbiesI'm not trying to convince you to avoid using the term, but you've just said the following: The majority of the most enthusiastic users of the term misuse it, either by accident or intentionally. (We don't need to go into the consequences of that, but it contributes to the lack of trust between male advocates and feminists.) It took you a "long conversation" with a sympathetic person to begin to interpret the meaning as a sociological observation rather than an attempt to blame men for the world… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 08/03/21 09:41 PM |
| 2 | The pejorative term "manchild" is part of a pattern of gender norm enforcement where men are expected to spend their hard earned money on women and children instead of on themselves and their hobbiesSo I didnt quite understand the second paragraph. Do you mean that the first definition of TM was used to positively describe a cheap way men had to appear masculine? Sorry, I may not have been clear enough. TM has always been a negative term. As far as I understand, TM was coined in the 1980s by a writer connected with the men's movements of that time, including the Mythopoetic Men's Movement. One of the popular concepts at that time was Deep Masculinity, describing authentic, genuine and benev… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 08/03/21 08:30 AM |
| 3 | The pejorative term "manchild" is part of a pattern of gender norm enforcement where men are expected to spend their hard earned money on women and children instead of on themselves and their hobbiesIt seems like you have a much more restricted definition than many. Have you ever wondered why other people use it differently? It's because it was never meant to serve as a replacement for "hegemonic masculinity". TM was coined to describe a kind of mutated, warped, counterfeit and cheap set of traits embraced by men who lacked access to a deeper, more genuine manhood. It had poetic, evocative meaning, not specific, academic meaning. And that meaning was connected to a perspective of masculinit… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 08/03/21 07:03 AM |
| 6 | The pejorative term "manchild" is part of a pattern of gender norm enforcement where men are expected to spend their hard earned money on women and children instead of on themselves and their hobbiesthose terms arent used and understood by everybody into the public discourse "gender roles" or "gender expectations" are self-explanatory. They're not new terms. Toxic Masculinity, by contrast, comes with massive loaded assumptions and misunderstandings. I think your real issue is that they're not as snappy and dramatic. I'd even say that instead of creating new terms, we should appropriate the term Toxic Masculinity and correct it, also stop people from using it incorrectly when we have discuss… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 08/03/21 06:25 AM |
| 1 | America's boy crisis.Every time I decide to check back in on this group it’s the same thing. Have you got a better alternative (besides LWMA and menslib), or are you aware of a men's movement that more consistently acts and speaks as you would like it to (ie. every topic is about bettering men)? | /r/MensRights | 08/03/21 06:09 AM |
| 6 | The pejorative term "manchild" is part of a pattern of gender norm enforcement where men are expected to spend their hard earned money on women and children instead of on themselves and their hobbieseven if the term Toxic Masculinity isnt perfect, I use it because it's the only term we have that can convey that idea Personally, I've chosen not to use it in most circumstances. It's got too many problems. It's actually the same number of syllables to say "toxic gender roles for men". But if you're talking about the role being restrictive, why not "restrictive masculinity" or "limited masculinity"? | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 08/03/21 06:01 AM |
| 2 | After two years of massive criticism, Gillette disabled comments on YouTube video "The best a man can be", still can be disliked.As you hint at, the ad is ham-fisted in the way it portrays scenarios. That's not good enough if you want to do PSA style social change messaging. You've either got to be very smart and relatable (typically with humour), or very sterile and safe the way most governments do it now - simple stylised images, deliberate representation choices. It's also overwhelmingly negative and generalising, completely the wrong tone for social change messaging if that really was the intention (and not creating a… | /r/MensRights | 08/03/21 05:51 AM |
| 3 | After two years of massive criticism, Gillette disabled comments on YouTube video "The best a man can be", still can be disliked.The ad clearly states that not all men are irresponsible The ad clearly states that most men are. It says "some is not enough". Therefore, most men are irresponsible. | /r/MensRights | 08/03/21 05:36 AM |
| 13 | The pejorative term "manchild" is part of a pattern of gender norm enforcement where men are expected to spend their hard earned money on women and children instead of on themselves and their hobbiesCan I offer some language corrections (for your benefit): because we interiorized that The word you're looking for here is internalized (US) / internalised (non-US). and to belong to the closeted Certified Men's Club I think here you mean coveted, unless all those men are secretly gay! assertiveness and dominance I'm not sure if this is just a language thing, but the fact that you include a completely innocuous trait (assertiveness) and a behaviour that is potentially positive or negative (domin… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 08/03/21 12:17 AM |
| 16 | The pejorative term "manchild" is part of a pattern of gender norm enforcement where men are expected to spend their hard earned money on women and children instead of on themselves and their hobbiesThey are potential signs of immaturity, selfishness or perhaps of someone living a dissolute life, but they don't need a gendered slur like "manchild". If a woman behaves in these ways, we don't call her a womanchild. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 07/03/21 10:27 PM |
| 1 | Apparently, we can't encourage women to live complete and independent lives without disparaging men. This will be on the front page of Wiktionary on Monday.All good, I get what you're saying. I have a tendency to mock humour I think is unhelpful by calling out how ridiculous it would be if interpreted literally. | /r/MensRights | 06/03/21 07:11 AM |
| 1 | Apparently, we can't encourage women to live complete and independent lives without disparaging men. This will be on the front page of Wiktionary on Monday.Ehh, I think it's meant to be a little rebellious "I don't need you" to make an individual woman feel more independent. Sort of a strange way to do it though, unless you're a lesbian who's also a hermit. | /r/MensRights | 06/03/21 06:48 AM |
| 8 | Apparently, we can't encourage women to live complete and independent lives without disparaging men. This will be on the front page of Wiktionary on Monday.I'm not sure I'd prefer to be a bicycle or a fish? Kind of a dumb phrase though. Both men and women contribute to a functional community. | /r/MensRights | 06/03/21 05:32 AM |
| 2 | First BookI totally get that (former high school teacher here). It's a job that doesn't leave much time or mental space for anything else. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 06/03/21 03:05 AM |
| 1 | First BookAwesome to hear your thoughts. Do you think this is a market that would be receptive to new work targeted at boys and have you ever thought about writing? I think many boys now get their narratives from videogames, since they often have much more involved stories than in decades past. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 06/03/21 02:39 AM |
| 3 | First Bookthe one for boys was about the boy who liked to paint his fingernails I think it would be good to have a more holistic message than just "it's OK to be different". eg. In terms of aspiring to careers and talents, you could have a book that starts with a traditional male aspirational scenario like a successful football player, then a series of pages about all the men involved in different jobs to make it all work, a mix of traditional and non-traditional male careers - the guys who build the stad… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 05/03/21 10:42 PM |
| 2 | There's no reason to believe men will start emotionally supporting each other within our lifetimes.Yes, I think these are two separate conversations. I don't think think this supposed advice is in any way trying to address the issue of men not being able to find romantic relationships in the first place. Maybe if it was worded this way: men should form more intimate and supportive friendships, in part to supplement and provide fallback redundancy for the emotional support that relationships typically provide. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 05/03/21 10:26 PM |
| 3 | First BookWhat sort of books would you guys like to see for boys, if at all? (Serious question, because I think it would be interesting to consider what to write.) Fiction / non fiction? Themes? Messages? | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 05/03/21 06:35 AM |
| 9 | I need your help: Group X.I wonder if you need to complicate it with the added "Group Y". Is it possible to word it in terms of disproportionate problems from Group X, and then just say "remaining population" or something like that. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 04/03/21 11:45 PM |
| 1 | There's no reason to believe men will start emotionally supporting each other within our lifetimes.No one is saying their emotional support is supposed it 100% come from romantic relationships. Men already get plenty of support from friends Individual experiences shared on this thread aside, there's plenty of evidence today that men run out of friends and other social relationships outside of their main spousal one, especially as they get to middle age. That's what the statistics say. We might argue that younger guys today won't have the same experience because they do life differently, are m… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 04/03/21 09:30 PM |
| 1 | There's no reason to believe men will start emotionally supporting each other within our lifetimes.Men who don't work, who don't work as hard as others believe they should, are shamed and ridiculed. Remember, men are objectified through labour. OK, I think there's two aspects here: It's possible that men just have less free time than, 30, 50 or 80 years ago. In many parts of the world, late stage capitalism means that people are working harder and for longer hours just to get by, and of course now men are expected to do more at home too. And there's the phenomenon of Shadow Work. I'm not goin… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 04/03/21 09:00 PM |
| 1 | There's no reason to believe men will start emotionally supporting each other within our lifetimes.I totally agree with you here! It's not normal for most of history to make one relationship carry everything. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 04/03/21 11:02 AM |
| 1 | There's no reason to believe men will start emotionally supporting each other within our lifetimes.I think it's possible to overstate or caricature this supposed advice from feminists. I'm not sure that what's being asked is to replace romantic relationships, just to not rely on a romantic relationship for 100% of your emotional support, sense of belonging, etc. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 04/03/21 10:47 AM |
| 2 | Im utterly speechless on how BuzzFeed allowed this article to be publishedI came in thinking it was parody too. It's certainly the epitome of shooting your own movement in the foot. So weird and sad. | /r/MensRights | 04/03/21 03:02 AM |
| 2 | There's no reason to believe men will start emotionally supporting each other within our lifetimes.Cool, yeah I think you've given a couple of good reasons, and I agree that younger men would be less comfortable with those particular hobbies than in times past, though it still doesn't explain the almost complete absence of younger men. I was thinking, in addition to the "forbidden" thing, another reason might be that younger guys are often at a stage of life where they are diving head-first into romantic relationships in a way that takes over their life. Even apart from any pressure from thei… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 04/03/21 12:07 AM |
| 4 | There's no reason to believe men will start emotionally supporting each other within our lifetimes.I think part of the reason you're being downvoted here is a lack of explanation to connect to the OP's point. (Coming from a gay man.) How do you think "found families" work and could address this issue? | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 03/03/21 11:00 PM |
| 5 | There's no reason to believe men will start emotionally supporting each other within our lifetimes.Yes, I'm aware of Men's Sheds. Here's an explanation from one of the state associations that gives some context around the issue of individual Sheds opening up to women. Key quote: We have had a talk to the anti-discrimination people and received assurance that they support a Shed’s right to not allow women into it on the grounds that it inhibits men from talking about the things that worry or concern them and this we support. And here's a quote from the national body: AMSA recognises that not a… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 03/03/21 10:39 PM |
| 6 | There's no reason to believe men will start emotionally supporting each other within our lifetimes.they've been replaced with nothing! This is the space for action over the next decade or two. I don't believe it was just direct feminist pressure that caused the end of most formal male social outlets, though of course feminism did influence the culture. And I'm not willing to accept that new spaces for men developed today will face the same tide of change that occurred in the latter decades of the 20th century, especially if they're demonstrably benign, nimble and fresh. We can learn from some… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 03/03/21 09:15 PM |
| 1 | Google is failing me.. Where are the forums/locations where men talk in long-form about their lives/experiences? Communities?I've found Art Of Manliness has some useful stuff, and I think there's a means for community discussion there too. The tone of the site is a bit self-helpy and life-hacky but much of the content is very positive and helpful. | /r/MensRights | 02/03/21 09:49 PM |
| 9 | Why has masculinity become a dirty word?I note that this article is from 2019. At this point, I'd say the general negativity felt towards men and masculinity is becoming a cliche and hopefully the trend will begin to reverse over the next decade. Maybe we can all settle into a more realistic, nuanced view that can acknowledge that there's shitty men out there who think they're being real macho, while the rest of us regular people focus primarily on the positive stuff about men, so we can build up younger guys instead of making them fe… | /r/MensRights | 02/03/21 08:30 AM |
| 5 | They talk about toxic masculinity and label this movement as misogynist, but nobody talks about the misandry and toxic feminity in feminism.Feel free to post something useful if you're bored. It's not a TV channel. | /r/MensRights | 02/03/21 04:09 AM |
| 1 | Happy Women's History Month, everyone! I'll see you in November for our day when we get to talk about our testicles and prostates...🙄You can use Movember and IMD to talk about much more than those, but you have to do it with good communication and relevant stats. Many of these stats (eg. about male suicide) speak for themselves, and you don't have to push back because some people don't like it. You're not trying to convince haters, just people in the middle. I quite like the idea of also highlighting a diverse range of men from history on some theme or another, and doing it in a way that's easily digestible for young people a… | /r/MensRights | 01/03/21 11:11 PM |
| 2 | High resolution debate.If the compounding failure to live up to the expectation of a provider&protector is what causing Men to feel lost, it's not a good idea to promote being provider&protector as an "essential" part of being Male. I'm not necessarily a proponent of that position, but I'm suggesting that maybe it's possible to embrace a provider/protector instinct positively without being used by society. There's space between those two outcomes. Right now, many (even most) men are being used because society is set u… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 01/03/21 09:46 PM |
| 1 | AskMen has been posting a lot of feminizing articles such as this. Maybe men want to piss standing up? Maybe we want to be different than women?Interestingly, the amount of water in the bowl varies around the world. US toilet bowls tend to stay filled unnecessarily high when not flushing, so I can see why splashing is more of a problem there. | /r/MensRights | 01/03/21 08:12 PM |
| 10 | AskMen has been posting a lot of feminizing articles such as this. Maybe men want to piss standing up? Maybe we want to be different than women?The thing is I don't even care if some guys want to sit on the toilet. That's why we have stalls in public bathrooms and there's plenty of guys that use them instead of urinals. (Personally, I'd rather touch as few surfaces as possible in a public bathroom, and minimise time spent there.) The issue here is the way a non-issue is being made into some kind of barometer for how fragile your masculinity is. | /r/MensRights | 01/03/21 07:46 AM |
| 12 | AskMen has been posting a lot of feminizing articles such as this. Maybe men want to piss standing up? Maybe we want to be different than women?what they really meant is that you can't tell me what to do as thats oppression but I can be free to tell people what to do It's even worse than hypocrisy. It's more like a Kafka trap - setting up the terms of a debate so that anyone who disagrees with you must be negatively motivated or "fragile". | /r/MensRights | 01/03/21 04:14 AM |
| 2 | HMMMM..Physical fitness and sports are uncomfortable areas where many moralistic gender equity arguments suddenly have to get more complicated and nuanced. It's not just boys vs. girls, there are huge debates around trans folk too. As a teacher, we all knew that many times the girls just didn't participate at all because they had a ready excuse that couldn't be argued with: on their period. If they were self conscious about their body, they had an excuse not to do these activities. When I went to schoo… | /r/MensRights | 01/03/21 04:01 AM |
| 63 | AskMen has been posting a lot of feminizing articles such as this. Maybe men want to piss standing up? Maybe we want to be different than women?God, this is inane. Pick a stupid fight that nobody wants to have: "Men should piss sitting down." Make a few pathetic arguments in favour of it on the level of a primary school debate team. Then, when many men dare to disagree: Fragile Masculinity. What a bogus, unwinnable set-up. Have we run out of real things to shame men about? | /r/MensRights | 01/03/21 03:54 AM |
| 1 | High resolution debate.Yeah, I don't think we're really in disagreement here. But it's not like there haven't been countercultural trends for men to get away from those pressures - eg. the Slacker phenomenon, SNAGs and metrosexuals, bronies, etc. They're never taken seriously, and they often don't work out in the long run for the men who try to do them. Contrast this with the appeal of Peterson's "responsibility" angle. When I said: "People will argue that men are supposed to be protectors, providers", I meant that ev… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 01/03/21 02:32 AM |
| 18 | hypocrisyYeah, especially in a work environment. I have occasionally complimented someone on something I see as an improvement to their physical appearance or health (though you have to be very careful about this), but criticising someone's appearance is just so inappropriate. I think that some women are used to controlling the appearance of their male partner (eg. choosing clothes, forbidding facial hair, etc.), or they've seen the way their mothers do it to their fathers. | /r/MensRights | 01/03/21 12:03 AM |
| 2 | High resolution debate.Masculinity always revolves around doing something for Society, its never about the Man. I've started calling this "man-as-utility" because I don't think Male Disposability really encompasses it. I don't think the challenge is figuring out why society looks at men like this. There's plenty of answers from history, culture, economics and even biology. People will argue that men are "supposed" to be protectors, providers, etc. Even if we accept these as instinctual priorities with positive potenti… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 28/02/21 09:34 PM |
| 3 | High resolution debate.It depends on what you call masculinity. And this variability of understanding is a huge part of the problem with language that connects "toxic" with "masculinity". As OP states, it also deflects from the recognition of a systemic problem that requires real world, not just internal, change. I like your use of "internalised misandry" to describe this phenomenon. And I think you're right that access to wellbeing is a valid way to understand the fight for men's rights, but I have to admit that "rig… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 28/02/21 07:09 AM |
| 3 | Why is it more generally accepted to be a feminist and not a MRA in society nowadays?Feminism sometimes gets in the way of genuine men's advocacy, but I wouldn't say they are the oppressor of men as a group. Sorry that we disagree. | /r/MensRights | 27/02/21 11:09 AM |
| 16 | Why is it more generally accepted to be a feminist and not a MRA in society nowadays?It cannot be denied that both feminism and men's advocacy have had negative elements, people who are hateful, play the victim game or focus too much on the other group as the enemy. Men's movements have struggled to develop a positive momentum, identity and image in comparison with feminism. I think some of this can be explained by the following: Feminism is associated with liberation (of women) and increased access to power (for women). Men as a group are cast as oppressors in this narrative, n… | /r/MensRights | 27/02/21 10:46 AM |
| 3 | Why people get offended when we compare the way society treat men vs the way it treat women ?!I was reading an article recently on how "Orwellian" has become overused to mean anything that seems dystopian. Actually, what we're discussing is the correct use of the word - the manipulation of language and definitions in order to control thought. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 26/02/21 07:58 AM |
| 56 | Rebuttal to: “Well yes, but it’s men victimizing other men”That response only has validity if you're trying to say that women alone are the problem. It's an attempt to absolve women of any responsibility as part of a society that accepts the situation as it is, and is usually tied to an assumption that men are solely responsible for how society works. If your purpose is to highlight the gender of the victim, what does that have to do with the gender of the perpetrator? | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 26/02/21 07:44 AM |
| 3 | Why people get offended when we compare the way society treat men vs the way it treat women ?!Oh I agree that the words have been redefined to make the narrative more difficult to question. Ironically, these are the same people who give grammar lessons when you point out the problems with current use of terms like Toxic Masculinity. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 26/02/21 02:34 AM |
| 0 | Why ?Acknowledging how it effects both sexes is the best step As a concept, it is inadequate because it is based on the female perspective for liberation - ie. who does or does not have power. The name itself tells you that it is all about who wields power (economic, military, physical etc.). To understand how a legacy system of gender norms and roles affects men as well as women, it needs to be interpreted more holistically and not just in terms of power. | /r/MensRights | 25/02/21 11:37 PM |
| 4 | Afghanistan: men are selling their kidneys to help support their families. This news contrasts MSM only talking about Afghanistan women's oppression by their husbands.What is this, boys vs. girls? It's OK to give male victims coverage no matter why, or because of whom, it happens. Lmao Really appropriate on a post like this. | /r/MensRights | 25/02/21 11:30 PM |
| 1 | "The One True Masculinity"Just because it pisses off the people in this sub doesn’t mean I have any intentions of not using it. In other words, being triggered is not valid. Thanks for clarifying. If you think it is traits, then why not "toxic traits associated with masculinity"? That seems a more accurate label. Also, I'd take issue with your statement that it is particularly men who encourage and defend them. Both men and women inculcate and then police harmful gender expectations on boys and men. | /r/MensRights | 25/02/21 10:02 PM |
| 1 | "The One True Masculinity"If you think so. Maybe you'd like to tell the last person who had a days-long debate with me over why they intended to keep using it and that nobody should be offended because it's "scientific". | /r/MensRights | 25/02/21 09:45 PM |
| 36 | Why people get offended when we compare the way society treat men vs the way it treat women ?!I think you have to first agree on a definition of sexism. For many people, sexism cannot occur to men because they take it as given that there is no structural or systemic harm that comes to men because of their gender. The same person typically considers "misandry" an absurd concept because only "misogyny" in the sense of systemic prejudice can exist. because gay men are killed because they are considered "effeminate men" This is a very reductive and inadequate explanation for homophobia, born… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 25/02/21 09:41 PM |
| 1 | "The One True Masculinity"I’m well aware that the term “toxic masculinity” is very triggering Maybe try to be a little less condescending. Many people at this sub oppose the use of the term for valid reasons, not just because they are "triggered". | /r/MensRights | 25/02/21 09:25 PM |
| 3 | How Hegemonic Masculinity Gets Gender History Wrong - Woke FatherI think this misunderstanding is consistent with known criticism of how the concept is typically talked about and used. From Wikipedia: "In response to the adverse connotations surrounding the concept, Collier remarks that hegemonic masculinity is solely associated with negative characteristics that depict men as unemotional (see affect display), aggressive, independent, and non-nurturing without recognizing positive behaviours such as bringing home a wage or being a father." I've heard a number… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 25/02/21 09:15 PM |
| 3 | "The One True Masculinity"I think AVFM is hit and miss, but that's actually a really thought-provoking article, well worth reading. | /r/MensRights | 25/02/21 09:10 AM |
| 2 | CNN: We should be teaching our boys to be proud simpsSorry you got downvoted. I'm with you on this. I think the article is dumb, but it's an indictment on this sub that a term like this is getting such support. I can't believe I'm saying this because I'm usually defending people here from statements like the following, but what the heck: Men's advocates won't be taken seriously while they use petty schoolground insults that have nothing to do with men alone, and everything to do with men's interactions with women. That support for the term is just… | /r/MensRights | 25/02/21 03:44 AM |
| 3 | Simp at the Good Men Project lectures men on boundariesWhy are they not understanding that, even if it SEEMS consensual, the fact that you’re in power makes it not? So, it's about someone being in a position of power, regardless of gender? In that case, workplaces should function like schools and other institutions where adults have to work with minors. No one-on-one meetings except where there is clear visibility into the room, or in common areas where others are around. And no socialising outside of the primary place of work. | /r/MensRights | 25/02/21 03:20 AM |
| 1 | The heartbreaking mental health crisis in young men that needs urgent action | 60 Minutes AustraliaMen's help seeking behaviours is one that seems to be misrepresented often in the literature, and shifts focus from solutions to blaming men. Absolutely that's a real bug-bear of mine! Let me know if there's anything I can do to support you if you decide to do the piece. | /r/MensRights | 25/02/21 02:57 AM |
| 7 | Jackson KatzCould you give a synopsis of this, maybe explain what you liked about it and how it compares to other media on the topic? From a quick scan of the website, it looks like the usual "masculinity is fucked up and that's why men are being shits to everyone" approach to the topic of men and gender that's been the norm for the last decade or two. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 25/02/21 02:05 AM |
| 1 | The heartbreaking mental health crisis in young men that needs urgent action | 60 Minutes AustraliaThat could be a really useful resource, and I think the readers at LWMA would appreciate it too. Are you thinking of this as a post that could be cross-linked? I'm not a researcher or someone who works in this field at all - I just have an interest in it. Most of my news comes from AMHF and things that I see in news media. While the specific research could take priority at the top of the post, we could also link to appropriate articles for those who want an easier entry point to the findings. Fi… | /r/MensRights | 24/02/21 11:37 PM |
| 1 | "If a man isn't married, he's creepy."I'll have to take your word for this, but I've got no reason to believe it doesn't exist. It's still a fairly new phenomenon (there's probably a term for it) where women who chose career or other priorities over a traditional marriage/motherhood now have regrets or misgivings later in life. Apart from some of them taking this out on men, it's hard for me not to sympathise with them. They're experiencing something akin to what younger men are experiencing right now - a realisation that the rules … | /r/MensRights | 24/02/21 10:54 PM |
| 2 | Do you think male children are treated disposable when compared to female children?This article with source talks about how infant boys are more vulnerable to stress. This article with source discusses the recent study about bias. This article looks at research that suggests higher amounts of "talking" to infant girls may be responsible for some difference in language skill development between girls and boys. This article is one of many that mentions research about how parents treat boys and girls differently from infancy, but I have been unable to find a specific source. I wa… | /r/MensRights | 24/02/21 10:37 PM |
| 1 | The heartbreaking mental health crisis in young men that needs urgent action | 60 Minutes AustraliaAll really good points, Rabel. It is disheartening that so little appears to have changed since 2017, and that the trends have worsened. Do you have any examples of initiatives that you would say are more effective and take a more positive approach to masculinity? I found the handbook produced by AMHF to be a good read. | /r/MensRights | 24/02/21 04:58 AM |
| 1 | The heartbreaking mental health crisis in young men that needs urgent action | 60 Minutes AustraliaSome useful observations on this: Clear communication of the shocking statistics about men/males overall, without "but women, but indigenous, but LGBT, etc." This does not mean those groups don't matter. It means you're focusing on something. Encouraging admissions that the mental health system is failing men, rather than blaming men for not accessing services that are assumed to be perfectly fine. Doesn't try to bring it all back to "just open up", "just change your thinking about what it is to… | /r/MensRights | 24/02/21 02:42 AM |
| 2 | Men to be able to stop abortionThe fact that any man wants to terminate his parental rights means he is not a man. I realise this is a side point, but that language better have been coming from a traditionalist, someone who's willing to see a woman making a morally questionable life decision and say she's "not a woman". | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 24/02/21 02:11 AM |
| 3 | Men to be able to stop abortionI do not have a solution to this issue and there might never be An affordable, medium-term/reversible, non-risky form of male contraception could help reduce the frequency of it. EDIT: For that matter, the same for women would help too. As I understand it, the pill has a lot of issues. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 24/02/21 02:03 AM |
| 1 | Even some feminists are starting to see the hypocrisy.Exactly. It's primarily used today as an edgy shorthand for "unhealthy gender expectations placed on men", that also happens to be easily weaponisable against men. | /r/MensRights | 24/02/21 12:19 AM |
| 3 | "If a man isn't married, he's creepy."Otherwise he's [rogue] and considered unstable. I'd argue that pressure (as far as getting married) comes from traditional values. It also comes from an economic system that would see men perform their assigned role of worker bee - much easier when they are settled down with kids and more bills to pay. Too many single men is a risk for any political establishment too. Where feminist oversight comes in is in the current conversation about men's role and about masculinity. I think many feminists w… | /r/MensRights | 23/02/21 11:49 PM |
| 6 | One way to think of a simp, is "simply someone who is ahead of their time.""You do all these things as a parent to raise your kid right, to be nice to everyone, especially kids without many friends," Shannon said. "And you never think that by making your kid the nice one you could be making them a target for bullies." What planet has she been living on since school was invented? "Today's boys are being raised in the middle of the biggest redefinition of male gender roles in recent history," Davis said. "Should I be kind and sensitive or distant and aloof when trying to… | /r/MensRights | 23/02/21 10:06 PM |
| 4 | "If a man isn't married, he's creepy."I think there is a very real stigma to singleness for men, particularly in the middle and later years of life. (The level of that stigma for single women can be debated elsewhere.) I think some of this is the legacy pressure of the mid-20th Century nuclear family model, and it's felt more now because of the increased loneliness and atomisation of our times. It's increasingly important for men to find social outlets for camaraderie and vulnerability with eachother. And this applies to men in rela… | /r/MensRights | 23/02/21 09:37 PM |
| 2 | Even some feminists are starting to see the hypocrisy.Yeah, and it wasn't popularised in order to help men. The term was barely known outside of academia until the mid 2010s and the rise of #metoo. | /r/MensRights | 23/02/21 09:23 PM |
| 4 | What is the perception of men's advocacy amongst queer (LGBT+) people?Thanks for sharing that. I don't have all the details of what kind of group you were trying to set up, but I appreciate that there can be opposition. The kind of things I had in mind with my original comment were less acute, direct support groups but more hobby/interest based. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 23/02/21 08:50 PM |
| 49 | What is the perception of men's advocacy amongst queer (LGBT+) people?I'm for male advocacy because I'm a man, a gay one. Just as I recognise problems with feminism, I acknowledge that there are some real issues with what passes for men's movements today. In some quarters there is reactionaryism, bitterness and actual woman hating. And I don't really relate to some of the things male advocates point to as problems, like dating imbalances with women (though I've no reason to ignore it as a problem). But I think the majority of things that affect straight men affect… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 23/02/21 10:26 AM |
| 2 | To those in this subreddit who are both men's rights advocates and feminists: I'd love to know more!The fantasy that men are unemotional or lack a rich internal life is complete fantasy that is based in envy. Having read that book too, I think this is a great point, though I feel it's let down by attributing it just to envy. I think it's more just a lack of understanding, an assumption that most men would function exactly the same as most women if they were "fixed". Or delusion (as you say later). Not to say the book didn't have some good things to say. It's now 20 years old and at least it ac… | /r/MensRights | 23/02/21 05:36 AM |
| 3 | a post made by @thetinmen on instagram regarding the notion of "misandry only irritates"Women can take part in misogyny. The definition includes "ingrained prejudice against women". That's why there's such a thing as internalised misogyny. Likewise, men can take part in misandry. It is a societal issue. | /r/MensRights | 23/02/21 02:33 AM |
| 1 | A feminists 'equality-esque', 'non-sexist' take on the subject of sexism and abuse against men and boys.Also. That's the thing; toxic masculinity isn't the hard r, it isn't mongoloid, it's not any slur. Obviously we're talking past each other on this so I won't press this any further after this. Neither were those terms slurs until they were. 'Mongoloid' was the accepted term - my own mother used it as a nurse-in-training in the 60s and early 70s, without irony or slurring. Toxic masculinity IS violence and aggression...This article uses toxic masculinity correctly. Are you kidding me! Only one of… | /r/MensRights | 22/02/21 11:33 PM |
| 1 | A feminists 'equality-esque', 'non-sexist' take on the subject of sexism and abuse against men and boys.It's, again, about violence and aggression. For example, men not wanting to go to therapy because they were taught they have to be aggressive and tough. Not wanting to wear a dress because they're supposed to be, again, aggressive. Aka the top alpha. You're collapsing a whole lot of very different things into "aggression" here, in order to make it fit your particular definition of TM and TF. Status is not aggression. Stoicism is not aggression. Choosing not to cross-dress is not aggression. Conf… | /r/MensRights | 22/02/21 10:12 PM |
| 1 | A feminists 'equality-esque', 'non-sexist' take on the subject of sexism and abuse against men and boys.Toxic refers to how its hurting others...Toxic feminity refers to violence and aggression from woman. See where I'm going with this? You're aware that TM is used to explain male suicide, right? It's used to explain everything from men not crying, to men not wanting to wear dresses, to men not wanting to eat vegetarian. These things don't hurt others directly any more than anorexia. But, for some reason, TF is limited to aggression and violence in women? If you think the examples I listed above a… | /r/MensRights | 22/02/21 09:28 PM |
| 1 | A feminists 'equality-esque', 'non-sexist' take on the subject of sexism and abuse against men and boys.Toxic masculinity isn't meant to be an offensive term. It wasn't, no. That's what I've been arguing the whole time. I think you have your head stuck in this idea of the world. That men are the only victims of sexism and that it's somehow more major than woman's rights You're making assumptions about me that are way off base. I don't believe either of those things. Toxic feminity isn't this "feminism term". I doubt you even knew it was a thing before I mentioned it. Of course I did (another assum… | /r/MensRights | 22/02/21 11:11 AM |
| 1 | A feminists 'equality-esque', 'non-sexist' take on the subject of sexism and abuse against men and boys.Mongoloid wasn't a slur originally (or it wasn't considered one). That's the point. You specifically called it beauty standards, which is not something that is used to describe attractiveness standards affecting boys and men. I don't know why you think I missed that, since I acknowledged it in my last comment. Toxic femininity is a thing tho and also a scientific term. Sure, but it's not part of a one-sided "conversation" that's all about how men are messed up and women are the victims, a conver… | /r/MensRights | 22/02/21 10:08 AM |
| 1 | A feminists 'equality-esque', 'non-sexist' take on the subject of sexism and abuse against men and boys.Those ways change. Just like we don't use the term Mongoloid to refer to people with Down's Syndrome anymore. That went out not long before the 80s. Since you mention beauty standards, that's a great example of the inconsistency with language and how it's applied. Beauty standards have a lot to do with gender expectations on women. Yet, we don't call them Toxic Femininity. We name the problem specifically. And yes, I know men and boys are affected by attractiveness standards today too. | /r/MensRights | 22/02/21 09:40 AM |
| 3 | A feminists 'equality-esque', 'non-sexist' take on the subject of sexism and abuse against men and boys.Language can describe facts, but it doesn't always do so in the most effective way. Sometimes, a term can be counter productive. Look, I get what the term meant originally, when men's movements were still a thing in the 80s. Times have changed. The conversation is different now. | /r/MensRights | 22/02/21 09:25 AM |
| 3 | A feminists 'equality-esque', 'non-sexist' take on the subject of sexism and abuse against men and boys.We're talking about language here, not facts. Anyway, do what you want but be aware that TM won't always get a great reception on a lot of men's subs. And it's not because they all don't understand the True Definition of the term. | /r/MensRights | 22/02/21 08:48 AM |
| 5 | A feminists 'equality-esque', 'non-sexist' take on the subject of sexism and abuse against men and boys.Well, all I can say is that most discussions that occur IRL and online are not scientific ones, and when it comes to discussions about gender and culture I like to tread a bit more carefully, with a view to what is most effective for actually getting people on-side. We're not talking about photosynthesis or quantum entanglement here. This is personal stuff that people actually feel. From what I can see, the popularisation of terms like TM is working against the very men most affected by unhealth… | /r/MensRights | 22/02/21 07:46 AM |
| 1 | Would a golddigger be a perfect example of toxic femininity? I think its a good example to use if we want to popularize the term.idk calling a woman a gold digger seems p specific to her I didn't explain that as well as I could. I meant that it it doesn't point to a woman, just to a person's behaviour (digging for gold). | /r/MensRights | 22/02/21 05:48 AM |
| 5 | A feminists 'equality-esque', 'non-sexist' take on the subject of sexism and abuse against men and boys.Well I guess you've proven it. I'm obviously not a man, because I haven't been taught that nonsense, neither by parents nor by teachers, nor by male role models. I've been taught exactly the opposite - that violence is rarely the best option and that women are human beings with their own free will. I must be some kind of freak. I'm fully aware of the origins of TM as a term. I still hold that its use today is irresponsible at best, particularly outside of academia. You can convey more clearly th… | /r/MensRights | 22/02/21 05:11 AM |
| 1 | Friend arguing there no difference between men/women except physicalityIt can be argued that aggression is not, of itself, a problem, but how it is channelled and mastered. Someone can use their aggression on a sports field or in a survival situation, without using their aggression to be violent to others in their daily life. | /r/MensRights | 22/02/21 05:01 AM |
| 3 | Friend arguing there no difference between men/women except physicalityI am still simple minded by nature. Just a little language note (no offense, just for your benefit). "Simple minded" is an English term that means mentally challenged and implies a developmental issue. You may have meant "single minded". | /r/MensRights | 22/02/21 04:57 AM |
| 3 | A feminists 'equality-esque', 'non-sexist' take on the subject of sexism and abuse against men and boys.Men are also usually taught to be, men. More aggressive, head strong, etcetera, etcetera. That's not what's in the comment. It says that "guys are taught that violence is OK, and that women are weaker and something to be controlled". Assuming you're male, were you taught that violence is OK, and that women are something to be controlled? To your question about the term Toxic Masculinity, it is not a popular term among a lot of men's advocates. One reason is because the term appears to target mal… | /r/MensRights | 22/02/21 04:07 AM |
| 1 | Would a golddigger be a perfect example of toxic femininity? I think its a good example to use if we want to popularize the term.As a thought experiment, sure, but two wrongs don't make a right. I will say it's interesting to observe the pattern in the gendered language mentioned in the discussion so far on this post, from the perspective of agency. I would imagine more term-pairs fit this pattern: Toxic Femininity -> Largely non-existent as a formal term. Popularised alternative terms like internalised misogyny or benevolent sexism point to the expectations and roles on women but not to women directly. Toxic Masculinity … | /r/MensRights | 22/02/21 03:54 AM |
| 13 | Do you think male children are treated disposable when compared to female children?Research shows that male infants are treated differently to female infants, eg. comforted less, lower tolerance for emotional outbursts, etc. Both parents exhibit these biases. Some recent research shows the bias is stronger in mothers than fathers. | /r/MensRights | 22/02/21 02:29 AM |
| 3 | Imagine a Hollywood COMEDY where a couple of guys accidentally kill a prostitute and the whole movie is about them getting rid of the body and using the dead body for slapstickYeah, it very rarely works. Bridesmaids is one exception. The humour element in Rough Night is that the bride and her female friends are having a wild hens' party that goes wrong, and the groom and his male friends are enjoying a subdued cheese and wine dinner. Problem is, if "flipping the script" is the only trick you've got, that's not enough to make a good comedy film. | /r/MensRights | 22/02/21 02:01 AM |
| 2 | Imagine a Hollywood COMEDY where a couple of guys accidentally kill a prostitute and the whole movie is about them getting rid of the body and using the dead body for slapstickNot seeing the parallel here. Weekend at Bernie's is about a dead CEO who did dirty dealings with the mob and had arranged for the two protagonists to be killed. | /r/MensRights | 22/02/21 01:56 AM |
| 4 | When you google the definition of "sexism..."I think for many feminists the terms are defined to exclude men because they are linked to what they see as systemic oppression against women. If someone does not believe there is any systemic oppression against men, and that sexism depends on systemic oppression, then logically there can be no sexism against men. The same goes if you define misogyny that way. Big Brother cannot be ungood. | /r/MensRights | 22/02/21 01:01 AM |
| 1 | Long article from mainstream media on male victims of family violenceI totally agree with your point here, and your switching argument makes sense. It's a little like what happened with eating disorders. The early awareness raising was very female-focused to the point where eating disorders became associated with girls and women, making it that much harder for boys and men suffering from them. Caveat - the gender ratio was probably much more skewed when awareness of eating disorders was first being raised. While it's technically true to say that it is less social… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 21/02/21 09:50 PM |
| 1 | Lived experiences that are difficult to convey to non-men?These are all good points and I agree in general. Just a couple of things I think are overstated, but it may be that we live in slightly different contexts: Women-only hair salons are perfectly acceptable, but men-only barber shops are demonized and accused of sexism. Taking the example of hairdressing, where I am the recent hipster beard trend came with a big resurgence of male-coded barbershops. They don't explicitly exclude women, but they are clearly marketed to men. Prior to that, old-style… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 21/02/21 09:34 PM |
| 1 | Why misandry, and why Now? What do you think?Yeah, I feel like there are at least 3 distinct purposes that can get rolled together in different ways here, and with different priorities. The formation of self-esteem, healthy male camaraderie, a work ethic and/or community-benefiting value system, humility, spiritual or ethical development of the man himself. The development of hands-on skills with economic value, career paths. Training for military service. I note that many ancient initiation practices had a "warrior" theme, but I think ant… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 20/02/21 01:33 AM |
| 1 | Long article from mainstream media on male victims of family violenceYou're right, and it's exposed by the way they try to justify it here - like we can't give those MRAs the satisfaction of being right because...? | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 19/02/21 08:54 PM |
| 1 | DV and male victims. Article from Australia's ABC.Yeah, I thought this was surprising to see from the ABC, but they seem to have more breadth / freedom for issues like this than the major Fairfax papers. We discussed it at LWMA here. Edit: initially linked the wrong article | /r/MensRights | 19/02/21 10:19 AM |
| 3 | Why misandry, and why Now? What do you think?I'm not saying that we should go back to this, but I'm interested in this question because I've had similar thoughts about male initiation, etc. Do you think there is an alternative to going back to this? The issue, in my mind, is that we no longer have the kind of unified communities of common culture and value that made these rites and traditions possible before industrialisation. The most recent "crisis of masculinity" in the Western world (around the turn of the 20th century) resulted in the… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 19/02/21 05:49 AM |
| 1 | Why misandry, and why Now? What do you think?It, like any dramatic change to society, results in new societal problems that often take decades if not centuries to resolve. Do you have any thoughts / predictions about how some of this might end up being resolved? I tend to hold something of a slow-decline viewpoint, wherein energy constraints, resource and environmental limits will gradually force us towards more localised economy with fewer intermediaries. Under that assumption, the kind of atomisation you've identified is slowly undone. I… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 19/02/21 05:37 AM |
| 2 | A crosspost from /r/menslib. How feminist/TERF messaging is actively harmful to men and masculine identifying persons.Just stating I'm not bi or bicurious, so I don't have that particular perspective. Men are fucking intriguing but I feel like my socialization towards them is rife with skepticism because they are men and they must want my asshole. With the last part of your statement "they are men and they must want this", how much of that sentiment is what you actually believe, and how much is what you think is the dominant narrative about men? Prior to your relationship with the gender essentialist, did you a… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 18/02/21 10:02 PM |
| 1 | A crosspost from /r/menslib. How feminist/TERF messaging is actively harmful to men and masculine identifying persons.Hey just a quick reply heading to bed but will comment back tomorrow. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 18/02/21 10:01 AM |
| 3 | California Schools and Our Sons.Late reply, but I remember reading that many boys prefer non-fiction, eg. books about how things work, what's inside things, etc. Sometimes we get hung up on the "novel" format and forget that there's many other things to read. Personally, I was a capable reader as a child but I hated reading anything thick so I mainly read Asterix and non-fiction until high school. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 17/02/21 10:15 PM |
| 1 | I have a question for you men; is “kill all men” a joke to you?Big discussions about this right now on a number of men's subs, precipitated by trans folk rightly pointing out the bad repercussions this sort of language has for feminism, progressives and the left. Could be a watershed moment, but if not then feminism will continue to haemorrhage supporters who identify as male. | /r/MensRights | 17/02/21 09:50 PM |
| 6 | A crosspost from /r/menslib. How feminist/TERF messaging is actively harmful to men and masculine identifying persons.that sentiment appears to only be shared by the right and for reasons I disagree with This sub exists and shows otherwise, but what are the reasons you do agree with? Are there men that you do admire, that you do not see as ugly and unlovable? You don't have to go down the path of "men built the world, we're the best, fuck everyone else" (which is, itself, a caricature of some of the right) to still be content and comfortable to be a man. I don't want to tell you what to do, but what you've writ… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 17/02/21 08:56 PM |
| 3 | We Need To Stop Saying All Men Are BadYou probably need to ask why anyone, especially someone who wants to change the world for the better, would come to a point where they think that using those terms is smart and wouldn't have those negative repercussions. | /r/MensRights | 16/02/21 10:09 PM |
| 2 | Men can't be victims of sexism ?The key word is "power". Feminism, by this definition, is incapable of addressing men's issues directly because Patriarchy is a discussion only about power, and it assumes that men as a group always hold power over women as a group. In reality, most men's and women's issues are two sides of a coin. To simplify, where the latter group has historically been denied power (at least in certain forms), the former group has historically been denied wellbeing. | /r/MensRights | 16/02/21 10:05 PM |
| 1 | Negative portrayal of Fathers in SitcomsThanks for naming a more current show (even though it has been going since 2004). Yes, I haven't watched Peppa Pig much but, from what I've heard, it is a good example of the 'stupid dad' stereotype. | /r/MensRights | 16/02/21 09:36 PM |
| 1 | Negative portrayal of Fathers in SitcomsThe key point is those are not (as you say) old stereotypes OK, they are not old when compared to the previous era of family representation in TV from the 50s to 80s (the "father knows best" to "family ties" era). The ones I cited are old by TV show standards. I don't have access to the research piece, but the TV shows I picked were the only ones I could find in the article you linked. Saying those examples are not old is like saying the Franco-Prussian War is not old when compared to the Norman… | /r/MensRights | 16/02/21 09:32 PM |
| 2 | Negative portrayal of Fathers in SitcomsMost of the examples in the article are tired stereotypes and old too. The Simpsons and Family guy are extremely old as tv shows, owing to them being animated. Modern Family finished its run last year after overstaying its welcome by at least a couple of years, and pretty much every character in that was a stereotype. What examples are available to demonstrate this stereotype about dads today? | /r/MensRights | 16/02/21 09:33 AM |
| 5 | Angry and useless rant... but still need to say itThank you for sharing this. If you can't tell someone you know, is there an appropriate helpline you can call to talk anonymously to a support specialist in your country? (Before people jump on and say all those helplines don't help men, I think these things are improving depending on the country. Just don't accept someone assuming that you're the perpetrator, or asking questions that suggest you did something to deserve it.) | /r/MensRights | 16/02/21 08:19 AM |
| 3 | Best way to fight back against man-bashing hate speechDictionary.com: an insinuation or allegation about someone that is likely to insult them or damage their reputation Among the issues with this and other current sociological terms with "man" or "masculinity" in them is that, no matter how carefully one might defend the True Definition, they are too easily weaponised against men as a group because they reference men directly as a group. This means that they are prone to generalising rather than understanding. Terms used to describe unpleasant or … | /r/MensRights | 16/02/21 07:40 AM |
| 1 | Positive Masculinity.With the obvious caveat that you can't expect "reality" TV to actually portray reality... Books like Lord of the Flies have given many the false notion that all-male groups are necessarily dysfunctional, even in the short term. A reality show like this isn't the only evidence you need to show that this is wrong. Sociologists and historians have documented that all-male work "gangs" are an extremely common feature in many cultures (probably going back at least as far as mammoth hunting). They hav… | /r/MensRights | 16/02/21 12:00 AM |
| 2 | My experience presenting as a woman on an online chat room. And how it affected my perceptions.Why would I join a men-only group unless it was for sports or for issues that only pertain to men? The original question was about making friends and combating loneliness. Some men might find that easier in a men-only group, and men-only groups have existed for centuries providing that social outlet. It's OK if that's not your thing. Even so, singing is a physical activity - like a sport. It's interesting because a number of barbershop choruses have gone mixed. The verbalised justification for k… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 15/02/21 11:01 PM |
| 3 | My experience presenting as a woman on an online chat room. And how it affected my perceptions.All men’s groups are pretty much illegal everywhere I can't speak for your experience, but I don't think this is true. Sometimes men's issues groups or political-focused groups have been shut down, particularly in academic environments. But you can find social, hobby or sports focused groups. eg. I'm in a men's barbershop chorus, and there are Welsh men's choruses too. Obviously most sport teams are one gender only. Any board gaming club will have men's groups simply because of ratio and variabi… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 15/02/21 09:07 PM |
| 5 | My experience presenting as a woman on an online chat room. And how it affected my perceptions.That's the thing. What can men change tomorrow, to feel less lonely? I found this a good podcast on the topic. The interviewee does give some practical tips towards the end. COVID aside, of course. I know it's not easy, but I also think men need to rebuild structured social outlets IRL based around hobbies, interests, sports. It doesn't have to be all-male if that's not your bag, but I think there's definitely room for that. It could be joining a local board gaming or D&D group, a men's chorus, … | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 15/02/21 06:58 AM |
| 409 | In 9th grade they installed two gender neutral restrooms at my school. The girls complained that is was Sexist, and Within 2 hours they changed the sign on one door to female only, and left the other one gender neutral. We now have 2 girls restrooms, one boys and one gender neutral restroom.On what grounds was it being called sexist? Did they have to reduce the existing girls' toilets to build it? | /r/MensRights | 15/02/21 06:18 AM |
| 1 | Does Feminism support male issues?I don't disagree with your whole comment but, as a teacher, I think most of the advice in that list at the bottom is quite sound and the article mentions problems any male advocate would agree with, like unconscious gender stereotyping of boys by teachers. The idea of "failing is good" is part of the recent Growth Mindset trend, which is now a common approach for building resiliency among students regardless of gender. It's really a more actionable and comprehensive alternative to the old "try, … | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 15/02/21 06:11 AM |
| 10 | This is good that there is more people being informed about this. Still not good, but people at least know nowI think most of the comments are OK, but the ones down the bottom... What the fuck is wrong with people? Makes me think the Internet is a mistake. | /r/MensRights | 15/02/21 04:21 AM |
| 22 | What woman don't understand, and I'm in high school, is that men have feelingsWe may not cry at everything you cry to but that doesn't mean we are HEARTLESS Thanks for speaking your mind. The whole "men need to cry more" thing is often poorly articulated and many who say it aren't interested in listening to how men and boys actually feel comfortable identifying and processing emotions. Your generation will hopefully benefit from more nuanced insights into all this, rather than all the virtue signalling that's going on right now. | /r/MensRights | 15/02/21 04:14 AM |
| 29 | There's a "Hit him in the balls" challenge on TikTok. Can't believe this is a trendIt can actually cause serious injury more often than most people think. There was a comment thread about this here a while back that was enlightening and sobering. | /r/MensRights | 15/02/21 04:08 AM |
| 1 | Positive masculinity according to UN WomenThe present situation is directly result of second wave feminism and its fallout. Specifically, the destruction of nuclear family. (And the reduction of fathers to mere wallets).. My issue with your analysis here is that feminism is, historically, a fairly recent phenomenon. Really, I think industrialisation was the most significant factor in the gradual disappearance of the bull elephants (to use your analogy). Feminism was able to ride some of the subsequent changes and push them in the direct… | /r/MensRights | 15/02/21 02:59 AM |
| 10 | Does anyone here do any actual activism?Fuck that's rough man. You did something amazing and you're worth getting out of bed for. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 15/02/21 02:21 AM |
| 1 | The army is one of the best examples of gender inequality towards MENDo you have anything to actually say? Men are victims of suicide. They account for 3 to 4 times the number of deaths by suicide in most developed nations. Thankfully, there are now fledgling initiatives targeting male suicide specifically, working with the most affected men in certain male-dominated industries. Feminism is for women, which is fine for what it is. I'm happy for feminists to say they are fixing men's issues as a side-effect if they want, but I'm not holding my breath. Needless to … | /r/MensRights | 15/02/21 12:19 AM |
| 30 | My experience presenting as a woman on an online chat room. And how it affected my perceptions.Guys and our sexuality are invisible at best and seen as predatory at worst. Can you expand a bit on this - the invisible part? What do you think could be done about this, and how can boys gain a less negative view of their own sexual nature? | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 14/02/21 11:10 PM |
| 1 | Does Feminism support male issues?In answering that question, I've had feminists tell me directly that feminism is for women, and that where things benefit men it is essentially a side-effect of bringing down the patriarchy, etc. As others have said, I guess it depends who you talk to. I take the view that there are some useful things to be gleaned from feminism for male advocacy, and that male advocacy can be feminist-compatible (except in those instances where feminism has worked against it). Feminism just won't ever be for me… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 14/02/21 10:51 PM |
| 1 | The army is one of the best examples of gender inequality towards MENIn places where women are barred from service it is likewise NOT because they are seen as more valuable in any way. The origin of this cultural role allocation by gender was to protect women for their "value" in producing children, and to coerce men for their "value" in providing that protection and, to a large extent, provision also. These community survival priorities haven't been relevant for some time, though the gendered expectations have clung on, re-emerging in ugly and traumatising ways … | /r/MensRights | 14/02/21 10:02 PM |
| 1 | The army is one of the best examples of gender inequality towards MENWhy make up an experiment when we can just look at childcare a few decades ago? Women did all the childcare, they signed up to it (unless they were raped) and many people, including women, said that it's the way women wanted it. By your logic, then, it wasn't sexist that childcare was seen as both the responsibility and desire of all women. OP is (albeit not super articulately) pointing to war as an example of the Empathy Gap, which is anti-male. It doesn't mean that it's women's fault specifica… | /r/MensRights | 14/02/21 09:21 PM |
| 1 | Radfems can tweet #killallmen and no one cares, but wokeness is a problem now that it affects womenIt's not even about being woke. It's more just the way things have gone. Women now do everything men used to be the only ones to do. Now men and non-binary people are doing everything women used to be the only ones to do. | /r/MensRights | 14/02/21 08:59 PM |
| 1 | The army is one of the best examples of gender inequality towards MENI don't see the OP directing anger at women? It's possible for men as a group to be victimized by a circumstance without blaming women specifically for it. | /r/MensRights | 14/02/21 08:49 PM |
| 9 | Radfems can tweet #killallmen and no one cares, but wokeness is a problem now that it affects womenThe irony of "one sex is being written out of the lexicon". When the public/work domain was opened more to women, we got chairpersons / chairs, police officers, etc. Now women don't dominate the domestic / child-rearing domain as much. It's what you wanted. | /r/MensRights | 14/02/21 10:55 AM |
| 8 | The army is one of the best examples of gender inequality towards MENwar is of a hyper-masculine agenda Who gave you the right to decide what is or is not masculine? | /r/MensRights | 14/02/21 10:20 AM |
| 8 | The army is one of the best examples of gender inequality towards MENA small number of leaders who happen to be male. Not men as a group. Your point? | /r/MensRights | 14/02/21 10:18 AM |
| 6 | The army is one of the best examples of gender inequality towards MENIt's a little different in current times when many people choose the military as a career option with particular benefits The real tragedy was the wide scale war that culminated in the mid 20th century. Not only because men were unwillingly pressed into war, or manipulated and shamed into it, but also because of the generational trauma that it had on men and masculinity, which we still haven't really recovered from. | /r/MensRights | 14/02/21 08:19 AM |
| 1 | Positive masculinity according to UN WomenOK, I don't know if you think I'm defending the term, or feminists, or this post by UN Women, because I'm not. However, you should know that the term Toxic Masculinity was not coined by feminists, though it was recently popularised by them. The term was coined in the 1980s by a man connected with the Mythopoetic Men's Movement. At the time, that movement explored the concept of a Deep Masculinity, a kind of authentic masculinity that non-modern cultures were connected with through male community… | /r/MensRights | 14/02/21 03:53 AM |
| 2 | Australian Principal who asked young girls to dress appropriately faces backlash and apologises for her commentsSo it's okay to sexualise a teenager wearing swimwear at a swimming carnival? Did I say that? | /r/MensRights | 14/02/21 01:41 AM |
| 2 | Australian Principal who asked young girls to dress appropriately faces backlash and apologises for her commentsThis is about skirts being worn above the knee This isn't in the article. Where did you get this from? The article mentions that it was in relation to a swimming carnival. As a teacher, I worked at numerous events like this and students wore all sorts of clothes at swimming carnivals when not in the pool, from t-shirts and shorts to literal bikinis. | /r/MensRights | 14/02/21 01:34 AM |
| 4 | Australian Principal who asked young girls to dress appropriately faces backlash and apologises for her commentsKids ought to dress appropriately for school, just as mature adults know to dress appropriately for workplaces. The mistake this principal made was gendering her comments instead of just sticking to reminding students of the policy and dealing with those who don't adhere to it. One of the benefits of having school uniforms, as most schools do in Australia, is that you're not constantly dealing with this nonsense, but you still have to deal with it on casual dress days. | /r/MensRights | 13/02/21 11:46 PM |
| 2 | Positive masculinity according to UN WomenManly traits are all positive. I know you're being sarcastic / trolling, but this part is arguably true. It's expectations around manliness, not manly traits, that are at fault. | /r/MensRights | 13/02/21 11:37 PM |
| -1 | Positive masculinity according to UN WomenThe guy has admitted that he doesn't like the term either. You can call it something more neutral like "unhealthy gender expectations on boys and men", but obviously it exists - you've just cited a number of examples yourself. You can also argue that feminist approaches to understanding and fixing it are ineffective. The image in the OP from UN Women is pretty pointless and facile. | /r/MensRights | 13/02/21 09:35 PM |
| 1 | What are some good ways to be a male advocate?Just want to suggest that it doesn't necessarily have to be something dramatic. I think a good thing is to begin to build social connections among everyday men through shared projects and activities, whether that's a hobby, sport, interest, etc. to combat loneliness and isolation. | /r/MensRights | 13/02/21 10:36 AM |
| 10 | Thoughts on Toxic MasculinityThanks for this perspective. These "non-toxic masculinity" videos seem to have a weird effect on me where I feel a frustration and ambivalence. I don't want to be constantly told about what's bad about masculinity, but I also don't want to be told what's "good", for many of the reasons you cite. And I realise this would leave boys and men with nothing, no model to build on, so that frustrates me even more. I guess I have no problem with admiring Aragorn for Aragorn. Just don't tell me I should b… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 13/02/21 10:18 AM |
| 8 | Dublin doctor sets up a male-only clinic encouraging men to visit doctor 'early and often' and break 'masculine mindset'I'd be inclined to look past the "masculine mindset" framing, which is unfortunate word choice. A men's only clinic is one approach that's worth trying and may end up being very effective for men's health. Dr Keane suggested women typically have more reasons to go to a doctor throughout their life, pointing to the likes of menstruation, pregnancy and menopause. This is a good point. Women are typically more exposed to medical settings over their lifetime than men (until the later years) and this… | /r/MensRights | 13/02/21 07:36 AM |
| 1 | Toxic views on ‘Boys don't cry': Study suggests mothers, not fathers, show gender bias towards sons. My guess is that feminism will scream “internalized misogyny.”Women cannot do it on their own. OK, so this is a step back from what you said originally, that "Men could change the patriarchy on their own" The reason it is primarily about women It's not primarily about women. It is about and for women. Feminism should spend more thought and time on men’s issues because of course they matter but the fact is, if we solved more women’s issues, many issues men face would be solved as well. That statement doesn't make sense. If, as you say, solving women's issue… | /r/MensRights | 13/02/21 01:12 AM |
| 1 | Toxic views on ‘Boys don't cry': Study suggests mothers, not fathers, show gender bias towards sons. My guess is that feminism will scream “internalized misogyny.”Men could change the patriarchy on their own because they are the ones already in power but women cannot. I disagree. You can't change a social system if only half of the participants are involved in that change. You overestimate the amount of power most men have. And even those few men who do hold most of the political, economic or military power are not the hand that rocks the cradle. If more men were at the forefront of feminism, we’d be much more progressive as a society. Feminism is for and… | /r/MensRights | 12/02/21 10:45 PM |
| 1 | Toxic views on ‘Boys don't cry': Study suggests mothers, not fathers, show gender bias towards sons. My guess is that feminism will scream “internalized misogyny.”If you think women are to blame for everything then just say that I didn't say that, and I don't think that. But if you want to know why feminists have trouble selling the concept of patriarchy to a lot of men, then this is a good example. Correct me if I'm wrong, but what you call patriarchy describes a social system that, among other things, assigns and enculturates different roles and expectations by gender. Wouldn't it stand to reason that women would perpetuate that system merely by being a… | /r/MensRights | 12/02/21 10:21 PM |
| 1 | Toxic views on ‘Boys don't cry': Study suggests mothers, not fathers, show gender bias towards sons. My guess is that feminism will scream “internalized misogyny.”Men did it to themselves It's ironic that you're saying this in a post that is showing how women also have responsibility for perpetuating harmful gender expectations on boys and men. | /r/MensRights | 12/02/21 09:00 PM |
| 9 | Toxic views on ‘Boys don't cry': Study suggests mothers, not fathers, show gender bias towards sons. My guess is that feminism will scream “internalized misogyny.”researchers went into the study with their own gender biases, assuming that dads would be more biased towards boys showing emotions and encourage them to “toughen up” during moments of sadness. It's great to know researchers go into a study with assumptions. Men are in control of everything, remember? Patriarchy, etc. | /r/MensRights | 12/02/21 01:48 AM |
| 1 | Two sides of the coinThis is similar to the pressure in a number of ancient and tribal cultures where there was no organised welfare, and where ongoing violent conflict kept the male population down. Marriage (even multiple wives) was often culturally obligatory as a welfare system for widows. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 11/02/21 09:18 PM |
| 1 | Two sides of the coinYou might find that all those things are able to be tied to the patriarchy by hook or by crook. In any case, even if you do accept patriarchy as a root cause of all this, it's very simplistic to say that women have no role to play. It is a social system, not merely a political one, and it is upheld by everyone in it. Both women and men inculcate and police gendered expectations on other men and women, boys and girls. Given the current disproportionate involvement of women in education and direct… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 11/02/21 09:11 PM |
| 8 | Good advice against sexual violence is not victim-blamingThe mildest guess is that they feel that women are entitled to be safe no matter what I don't know how many people seriously take it this far. I think it's more like an opportunity to "flip the script" and make a point about violence against women. Police in Australia used to give this sort of safety advice as a matter of course after an incident occurred, but now they get so much backlash they've stopped that. The backlash got its own backlash when a female politician here announced that "men s… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 11/02/21 09:03 PM |
| 2 | Sociological studies asking the wrong questions to make men look badI theorise that men just stick together, doesnt matter if they're getting a raw deal, as long as they have someone to follow, their happy. Wow, and this sub gets accused of generalising about women... You realise that if we had the same economic and political system today with exactly even number of men and women making up the elite and managerial classes, all the same problems would still exist right? | /r/MensRights | 11/02/21 04:57 AM |
| 1 | Sociological studies asking the wrong questions to make men look badyeah, no. That’s not the message. Isn't it? The Solution to MRA Problems? More Feminism I Was an Angry Men’s Rights Activist. Now I’m a Fierce Feminist. Why the Men's Rights Movement Is Garbage Quote: "So that's why it's not "men's turn" to have a social justice movement." You and the other people who champion men’s rights need to first stop sabotaging yourselves before you ask others to be trying to create a movement for you. I'm not asking others to do so. I am asking feminists to not pretend … | /r/MensRights | 11/02/21 02:23 AM |
| 1 | Sociological studies asking the wrong questions to make men look badI'm not someone who sees feminism as a hate movement. But I think a challenge here is that there is no visible, mainstream men's movement today. The movement that does exist, Men's Rights Activism, is constantly subjected to de-legitimatising language from the media and from feminists, regardless of whether it is saying good or bad things at the time - and I know it has its problems. The resulting message coming across is "only feminists are actually doing anything about the real problems affect… | /r/MensRights | 10/02/21 11:40 PM |
| 1 | Sociological studies asking the wrong questions to make men look badBut that was never the goal of feminism and this idea that Feminism needs to address and rectify men’s issues is ludicrous. Have you heard the claim often made that "feminism is for men too"? How do you interpret that statement? | /r/MensRights | 10/02/21 11:11 PM |
| 3 | Sociological studies asking the wrong questions to make men look badhow then has your question become an emphasis on how women treat men? I don't see that emphasis in OP's last question. It acknowledges that "we" (both men and women) are responsible for individualist society, which is not reducible just to capitalism. | /r/MensRights | 10/02/21 10:48 PM |
| 1 | Sociological studies asking the wrong questions to make men look badThing is, men can but it takes structured, convivial and healthy social spaces for men - the kind that have been dismantled or abandoned over the last several decades. Sometimes turning to natural instinct as an explanation for behaviour can be a thought-stopper. The irony is we know more now, but societies throughout history didn't need to know the biological science behind our instincts to still create cultural artifacts and technologies that counterbalanced or re-directed them in positive way… | /r/MensRights | 10/02/21 10:41 PM |
| 2 | How men are treated at collegeWhere is your evidence that men are attending college at lower rates than in 2000 ? The statistics from NCES (United States) don't bear out the claim as an absolute, but do show that the gap continues to widen between men and women. Percentage of 18- to 24-year-olds enrolled in college in 2000: Male: 32.5% Female: 38.4% In 2018: Male: 37.6% Female: 44.3% | /r/MensRights | 10/02/21 03:26 AM |
| 2 | Channing Tatum when asked if they would consider a Magic Michaela film - "it would be complected doing an all female version of the film. It's a very ... sensitive time for that specifically and getting it right would be like threading a needle"....Based on that description, I'm glad she's your ex. If it helps at all, it sounds like it's just her way of making herself feel better about whatever is bringing her down, and not really about naked men. In the same way that retail therapy is not really about the particular item bought. | /r/MensRights | 10/02/21 02:51 AM |
| 15 | Channing Tatum when asked if they would consider a Magic Michaela film - "it would be complected doing an all female version of the film. It's a very ... sensitive time for that specifically and getting it right would be like threading a needle"....If they did a mirror-image film with female characters it would be useful to compare the way it would be received. Aside from the objectification... Something that's played down in both films is that the male characters are in pretty vulnerable places financially. This would probably be played up for sympathy were they female. There's also a "worship your clients like they are goddesses" vibe that would be viewed as problematic at best were the genders flipped. In short, they'd have to make it a… | /r/MensRights | 10/02/21 12:35 AM |
| 4 | Sociological studies asking the wrong questions to make men look badThe idea that women are "more moral" than men isn't even new, and certainly wasn't invented by progressives / liberals. It's a traditional conservative notion and part of a cultural legacy of sympathy/chivalry towards women that both traditionalists and feminists have capitalised on, eg. in the promotion of gendered family violence policy. The latter group has also complained about it when it has been useful for them to do so. Some of this (at least in the West) has its roots in the separation o… | /r/MensRights | 09/02/21 10:25 PM |
| 2 | Does anyone else get annoyed by mens rights' activists glorifying masculinity?Thanks for this perspective. I agree with the argument that men as a group are still suffering a generational trauma from the 20th Century. I think part of the issue is that kind of masculinity you describe (a shared ideal of manhood that was more capable of being all-embracing and accessible, as well as being more positive than negative overall) was ultimately vulnerable to the kind of rapid changes we've experienced over the last 150 years. It's like the difference between a specialist species… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 09/02/21 01:09 AM |
| 12 | Sexual harassement and Groping of male characters in Dysney LandI'm not talking about men being shamed for displaying femininity, because that's still a condemnation of femininity, even if it harms men. The primary reason men have been shamed for displaying femininity is because they were transgressing their assigned gender role, not because femininity has been viewed as inferior. Women were also historically condemned or maligned for transgressing their assigned gender role. I think the error here is thinking everything to do with gender has to do with powe… | /r/MensRights | 09/02/21 12:26 AM |
| 13 | Sexual harassement and Groping of male characters in Dysney LandBoth of those things still correlate with how women are viewed, if men are regarded as depraved, while exaggerated, it is because there's legitimacy in how women are actually viewed and treated in terms of being sexualized objects That's kind of my point, though. Your particular perspective is forcing you to identify a causal link in one direction, but not the other. In reality, both sides of the coin influence eachother. and these cultural attitudes are perpetuated by patriarchy, to serve the o… | /r/MensRights | 08/02/21 11:41 PM |
| 12 | Sexual harassement and Groping of male characters in Dysney LandYour ideas here are literally feminist. I'm just talking about the sexism (to women) responsible for them. There's two sides to the coin, but you're only attributing one side as the cause. On one side is "women are weak and have no sexual interests" and on the other side is "men are sexually depraved and a threat". The former isn't responsible for the latter any more than the latter is responsible for the former. Similarly, Benevolent Sexism (towards women) and Male Disposability are both real t… | /r/MensRights | 08/02/21 11:09 PM |
| 2 | Lived experiences that are difficult to convey to non-men?A safe space is a space where you should feel safe to say what you want, and policing men's safe space and forcing it to be safe for women, and not men, is exactly the opposite of what needs to happen. I think maybe the Internet is a complicating factor here. We've talked about this before, but there's an ongoing dichotomy between allowing people to say what they want (including venting) and building a community that is productive and positive. And this is compounded by the fact that it's all ha… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 08/02/21 09:59 PM |
| 2 | I am a feminist, came to this sub to understand and empathize with men...a little disappointeddon't understand the concept of systemic sexism There are numerous posts on this and other men's advocacy subs about the social expectations, conditions, laws and application of those laws that negatively affect men. But since feminists argue that there is no such thing as systemic sexism against men, why would you expect the concept to play a big role on a sub called MensRights? or how benevolent sexism works Since this is a concept that is defined by feminists such that it only affects women, … | /r/MensRights | 08/02/21 09:31 PM |
| 1 | I am a feminist, came to this sub to understand and empathize with men...a little disappointedI'm saying I don't think it would look empowering because it's not about obtaining power. The areas where I see most potential for progress right now are in men's mental health, suicide prevention and awareness of male victims of family violence. There are promising initiatives in some countries, but it's still early days. But mostly, I think change will come from the bottom up as men redevelop stronger and deeper social connections with each other (formal and informal), this time without the pr… | /r/MensRights | 08/02/21 10:31 AM |
| 3 | I am a feminist, came to this sub to understand and empathize with men...a little disappointedI think part of the problem is that men's movements and men's advocacy cannot work in exactly the same way that feminism did. You mention that "Finding feminism helped me come to terms with those negative thoughts and find a bit of empowerment!". To simplify a bit: Where women historically lacked access to power, men historically lacked access to wellbeing (and continue to). Feminists forced society to give women power through workplace reform, marriage law, etc. Many of the reforms were also co… | /r/MensRights | 08/02/21 07:41 AM |
| -7 | I am a feminist, came to this sub to understand and empathize with men...a little disappointedI don't really understand why that sub keeps getting brought up in the context of feminism. It seems like everyone agrees that it sucks, including just about every feminist that comes here when it gets mentioned. Does it even have significant member overlap with feminist subs? | /r/MensRights | 08/02/21 07:19 AM |
| 2 | Lived experiences that are difficult to convey to non-men?there's a large part of me that can't help but think that there's really not much, and whatever you do find will be dismissed out of hand by feminists. I'll see what I can find. In terms of male social spaces today, I've noticed there's wary support for these from feminists as long as they are explicitly feminist and therapeutic in purpose, eg. sitting around talking about toxic masculinity, or at least tying that into it somehow. The fear seems to be that without this inoculation of feminism an… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 08/02/21 04:50 AM |
| 2 | Lived experiences that are difficult to convey to non-men?a lot of effort has also gone into tearing down male safe spaces, without understanding or recognizing that those were safe spaces to begin with Yeah, I'd like to find resources with more on this specific topic. I think there's a number of causes for why these spaces disappeared, including: a general decline in voluntary organisation participation opening up to women/girls (and I'd note that this was not always due to explicit pressure from women or feminists) some of these spaces did turn dysfu… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 07/02/21 10:43 PM |
| 1 | Lived experiences that are difficult to convey to non-men?How parents (often mothers) actively sabotage their sons learning life skills. My dad had to teach me how to cook, clean, and do laundry in private. With laundry in particular, my mother would go behind my back and do it while I was at work. When I went to university, I had to teach other guys how to do laundry because we experienced the same type of sabotage growing up. I think this also has to do with the "traditional" ownership of the domestic sphere by women. I don't presume to speak on thei… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 07/02/21 09:21 PM |
| 4 | Lived experiences that are difficult to convey to non-men?Men tend to see other men as potential competitors, potential aggressors, or just a neutral party, men don't see other men and immediately band together. I wonder if this connects with the historical importance of benevolent men's spaces, whether social groups, sports clubs or at work. That they represented safe, long-term, semi-structured environments where men could do this work of building connections with eachother, since many men don't naturally do it the way women do. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 07/02/21 09:12 PM |
| 2 | Lived experiences that are difficult to convey to non-men?Do you think some of these movies also valorise / glamorise the lone male figure? There's definitely an old trope in cinema of a male hero who has no attachments and travels from place to place. It's not that this is explicitly made out to be a good thing usually, but I feel like it still gets loaded with a lot of values or traits that make it seem aspirational. He gets to be the hero but doesn't have to stick around and build anything, no long-term responsibilities to anyone. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 07/02/21 09:04 PM |
| 2 | Lived experiences that are difficult to convey to non-men?Can I ask what you mean by "intimate"? Does it mean sexual intimacy for you? I'm not a straight man, but I've observed that some straight men are able to have much more intimate friendships than others. By which I mean they share a lot of personal stuff, are emotionally vulnerable with each other, and/or are physically affectionate (not necessarily sexual). I think it requires a lot of trust and that can be difficult to earn. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 07/02/21 07:26 AM |
| 15 | Re: Do you guys hate feminism?They also write articles on mens health. http://therepresentationproject.org/category/feminism/ I went through this category and, out of all the articles for 2020, there was just one about men (highlighting men's health awareness month). Am I looking at the wrong thing? | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 07/02/21 07:16 AM |
| 7 | I love male privilegeOP barely mentioned feminism, nor did the person you're replying to say that "feminism is bad". A woman version of this could be interpreted as derailing if it was added as a comment on this post. The sarcastic tone might be lost since "female privilege" is not a mainstream concept. | /r/MensRights | 06/02/21 09:37 PM |
| 2 | My problem with “toxic masculinity”It was about 'toxic masculinity' but it was redefined as the pressure to conform to negative gender stereotypes. Many people will tell you that that is exactly what 'toxic masculinity' means. It's just a really shitty term (and too often misused) for this time in the conversation about men and gender expectations. being truthful regardless of expectation is the manliest thing one can do It seems a little inconsistent for them to tell you what the manliest thing to do is. | /r/MensRights | 05/02/21 09:43 PM |
| 2 | My problem with “toxic masculinity”I just wish the media would present toxic femininity as a thing. There's a whole set of terms designed to describe the negative pressure of female gender roles without attaching them to the word femininity. eg. internalised misogyny benevolent/ambivalent sexism Then there are all the specific terms for the pressures disproportionately faced by women, and the negative traits that are connected. eg. the beauty myth Stepford Wives syndrome "Mean Girls" / Queen Bee the glass ceiling / wage gap But f… | /r/MensRights | 05/02/21 09:38 PM |
| 38 | China promotes education drive to make boys more 'manly'Setting aside the obvious aspect of an authoritarian government doing this, I think this has some things in common with the concerns about manliness in Western nations in the late 19th century, and the subsequent push by organisations and leaders to encourage health and rigorous activity for boys and men. I don't think any sort of official program framed to address masculinity or manliness in a direct way could ever gain traction in Western nations while the present culture holds sway, unless it… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 04/02/21 05:20 AM |
| 1 | To the people who argue this: if men feel like they are being treated unequally based on gender then they should support feminism because feminists also oppose the systemYou can't ignore the shitty writing, but it's pretty clear that a number of elements of that movie were intended as some kind of "flipping the script" as far as gender goes, to make social points. Where the villain is clearly a caricature of a lonely, disenfranchised young man (read "incel"), Chris Hemsworth's character represents the fabled Privileged Male who, oblivious to how dumb and incompetent he actually is, knows that everything still goes his way. That he is attractive is an excuse to b… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 03/02/21 10:49 PM |
| 1 | "There is a misconception that women are the predominant victims of image-based abuse. But according to our research, both men and women can experience it equally."I was surprised to see it too. They also ran a long article (but still a little one-sided) about male victims of domestic violence last year. Although I think ABC is biased, they seem to be braver about these sorts of explorations than the left-leaning fairfax outlets like The Age or SMH. | /r/MensRights | 02/02/21 11:48 PM |
| 11 | Anyone who uses instagram here should really check this page out. It touches the nerve with my problem with terms like 'toxic masculinity'That's a pretty succinct way of putting it. Except you'll sometimes hear the response that "internalised misandry" cannot exist in the same sense as "internalised misogyny" because there is apparently no systemic sexism against men. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 02/02/21 10:48 PM |
| 2 | Anyone who uses instagram here should really check this page out. It touches the nerve with my problem with terms like 'toxic masculinity'I think it was made for people who already agree and want to feel good, which is fine I guess? Or maybe for people who have observed the disparity being described. You're right that it would have been better with specific evidence, but the point is pretty difficult to prove without some kind of large-scale textual analysis of the articles, tweets and news items on the relevant topics. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 02/02/21 10:20 PM |
| 2 | Anyone who uses instagram here should really check this page out. It touches the nerve with my problem with terms like 'toxic masculinity'You're kind of begging the question here. The post is claiming that there is a common disparity in the way the gender-related issues of two groups (women and men) are presented and discussed, including via the common terminology used. The claim is that when it comes to the former group's gender-related issues it is more often implied, explicitly or implicitly, that they are the victim of society, whereas the terminology and tone addressing the latter group implies more personal responsibility, a… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 02/02/21 09:35 PM |
| 7 | As a 23 yo man I put immense pressure on myself to be as physically attractive as possible. This leads to very toxic thinking and feeling of competition with other men. Does anyone have some enlightenment on how to change this mindset.Are you asking this as a real question? While there is increasing pressure on men for physical attractiveness too, I think the male equivalent for this question has always been more around success/winning or status. Even the physical markers of attractiveness for men often have less to do with pure beauty and "prettiness" and more to do with the impression of power, success and the ability to protect. Understanding status anxiety and its roots can help. Finding additional avenues for convivialit… | /r/MensRights | 01/02/21 11:49 PM |
| 1 | A reminder that the stereotype of traditional masculinity espoused by feminists and their allies, is an ideological fantacyIt's a pity this post has so few votes and comments. I think it's useful to note how Hegemonic Masculinity and it's connection to the concept of Patriarchy gives an incomplete picture. Feminism is fundamentally about women, their experiences and concerns. It's not unexpected that the concepts developed by feminists will fail to paint an accurate picture of the male experience. In this case, I think the observations that led to concepts like Hegemonic Masculinity and Patriarchy had mostly to do w… | /r/MensRights | 01/02/21 09:08 PM |
| 6 | Men are trying to make some money by taking advantage of failure wall street. This must be because men aren't getting laid.I feel like there's a key link here that you're drawing. It's not a poor argument that having a growing "underclass" of unattached, economically disenfranchised and socially isolated young men is potentially very dangerous for a society. The problem is the tone that sometimes comes through in articles and tweets on this point. They either sound cold and detached, like some kind of Swiftian "Modest Proposal", or they get swept up in a political bias that labels the affected group as incels, alt-r… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 01/02/21 05:07 AM |
| 1 | Have any of you guys seen this yet? I know I'm not really active, is it really something MRM started?What are you talking about? You told me I didn't have to use the term if I don't want: If you do not assign this man the label alpha-male, you will still recognize it is valid. And I agreed that I'm OK with the concept that some men are natural leaders. I didn't mention anything about violence, domineering or intimidating. I did say that I think it divides men into two groups. Language and vocabulary matters. I'm also highly critical of certain terms that feminists use. | /r/MensRights | 30/01/21 09:39 PM |
| 1 | Have any of you guys seen this yet? I know I'm not really active, is it really something MRM started?I'm fine with the idea that some men are natural leaders / influencers (or have developed those talents), so I think we agree that it's not necessary to use the term "alpha male" to describe that phenomenon. I do think my Point 3 still stands, particularly with the use of "beta" as an insult. Do you have evidence that the term didn't derive from extrapolations about animal behaviour? | /r/MensRights | 29/01/21 11:16 PM |
| 1 | Bodyshaming is fine as long as its directed at menOK, yeah I get that. I honestly didn't notice that in the photo first time. However, when you said this: there's a running joke that guys with big trucks are compensating for something. I think you've got this wrong. Many people, including so-called progressives, have taken to using this particular insult (LDE, etc.) for someone whose identity or views they don't like. It's not to do with vehicles. | /r/MensRights | 29/01/21 08:45 AM |
| 1 | Have any of you guys seen this yet? I know I'm not really active, is it really something MRM started?Alpha male is a positive concept OK I've never really had a conversation like this before, but here are my reasons why I think this is not the case. It is a concept derived from observations about animals - specifically wolves, but the term has also been used for describing roles in tribes of apes, etc. As is hinted at in the article, the person who first tried to make anthropological links to humans was not doing good science. I don't believe humans are just animals, though others may. You'll n… | /r/MensRights | 28/01/21 09:27 PM |
| 1 | Bodyshaming is fine as long as its directed at menSorry for delayed reply - sleeping. You're right that the owner of the vehicle is also making a gendered insult, so I guess it would have been nice if the OP had also noted this. My comment was about the rise of the use of small dick energy / LDE as an insult generally, which is a huge double-standard given all the attention to bodyshaming and gendered vocabulary today. | /r/MensRights | 28/01/21 09:16 PM |
| 5 | Bodyshaming is fine as long as its directed at menAh yeah, I forgot two wrongs make a right. | /r/MensRights | 28/01/21 10:49 AM |
| 14 | Bodyshaming is fine as long as its directed at menRegardless of the political point to be made, using penis size for humour, with the implication that there is any connection between penis size and confidence or competence, is not good for men as a group. We can criticise each other's politics or vehicle choices without tearing each other down with dumb gendered insults. | /r/MensRights | 28/01/21 10:23 AM |
| 2 | Have any of you guys seen this yet? I know I'm not really active, is it really something MRM started?An Alpha Male with just his assertive presence will engender respect in others; he doesn't coerce. Well why not just say he's an assertive man? | /r/MensRights | 28/01/21 05:43 AM |
| 3 | Men who believe that masculinity is toxic or harmful have lower self-esteem and worse metal health than men who embrace their masculinity and see it as a good thingIt means the same thing today than it did then, hardly an evolution. Except it doesn't, as I explained. Instead of a negative scare word, which is basically what it is now, we need specific language that actually describes the nature of the harmful gender norms and expectations that affect men. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 28/01/21 04:16 AM |
| 3 | Men who believe that masculinity is toxic or harmful have lower self-esteem and worse metal health than men who embrace their masculinity and see it as a good thingThe idea of "internalized misogyny" is ancient and long pre-dates any Feminist. I'm talking about terms here, not concepts. Neither term was "developed" by Feminism A quick Google didn't yield any useful results, but I can almost guarantee you that the term "internalized misogyny" was first used in a feminist text. As for TM, I deliberately said that TM was incubated, not developed, within feminist discourse. I'm well aware of its origins and it hardly "took off" at that time, any more than the … | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 28/01/21 03:40 AM |
| 2 | People will masquerade as "progressive leftists" until they hear you support rights for the wrong group of people, and suddenly it's back to the 1950's. Why does feminism get a pass?You can amount to nothing all you want. Don't bring others down for wanting to achieve more. You can't see the irony in that request, after what you just said in the previous sentence? I'm not "bringing down" anyone, nor have I suggested sitting around doing nothing. I'm making the observation that interplanetary settlement hasn't happened yet. I'm not even ideologically opposed to anyone exploring the solar system. Exploration is fun and can sometimes pay off, but it is a gamble and success is … | /r/MensRights | 28/01/21 03:22 AM |
| 7 | Men who believe that masculinity is toxic or harmful have lower self-esteem and worse metal health than men who embrace their masculinity and see it as a good thingthese were invented by entirely different people at different times and they gained traction independently This makes it seem like it's pure happenstance. Feminist terminology is largely controlled and established (sometimes through debate) by those who participate in feminist discourse, the same discourse within which the term TM was incubated. So, no, it's not "planned". It's just part of a vocabulary set refined within a movement that centres women and their concerns, not men. Realising this … | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 28/01/21 02:51 AM |
| 2 | People will masquerade as "progressive leftists" until they hear you support rights for the wrong group of people, and suddenly it's back to the 1950's. Why does feminism get a pass?To quote a great man when talking about going to the moon: "we do it not because it is easy, but because it is hard." You might have heard of him. And to make a point to the main rival of the US in the Cold War. But I'll grant you that those endeavours yielded tremendous breakthroughs and technologies that we use today. It just that we didn't end up with a settlement on the Moon. We now have orders of magnitude more technology and more processing power, and we haven't gone back to do so. You pro… | /r/MensRights | 28/01/21 02:43 AM |
| 5 | The greens want to attract male voters who are running from the left anti male rhetoric by doubling down on anti male rhetoric and saying "men are damaged by masculinity" !!Do you have any idea where to find this men's wellbeing policy that they mention? It's not linked in the article and I can't find it on their website. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 28/01/21 02:25 AM |
| 3 | People will masquerade as "progressive leftists" until they hear you support rights for the wrong group of people, and suddenly it's back to the 1950's. Why does feminism get a pass?Sending something to another planet is different from trying to settle there. It's the difference between "Can I?" and "Why would I?" I could try to settle in the middle of the most barren desert on Earth and it would still be 1000 times easier than trying to settle on Mars or the Moon. If no one bothers to do the former, why would we bother to do the latter? It's much closer, we can tank water in with a truck, there's air and you're not being bombarded with deadly solar radiation. | /r/MensRights | 28/01/21 02:02 AM |
| 4 | Men who believe that masculinity is toxic or harmful have lower self-esteem and worse metal health than men who embrace their masculinity and see it as a good thingWe do, we just don't generally use that term. well i lack here i guess :/ . What term are used that are gendered (as it is with toxic masculinity)? I'll be curious if you get an answer to this. Unlike TM, the equivalent terms used for femininity have been carefully designed to not seem like they are blaming women or ascribing agency to them. eg. internalised misogyny, benevolent sexism, etc. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 28/01/21 12:59 AM |
| 5 | Men who believe that masculinity is toxic or harmful have lower self-esteem and worse metal health than men who embrace their masculinity and see it as a good thingI don't know who's dealing out all these downvotes, but I think this is a decent approach for an individual, and may be an ideal to work towards. It does kind of ignore the effect of being a social species, though. I kind of see it like if you had a grove of apple trees and pear trees of different cultivars and subspecies. All the trees respond to the same stimuli (sun, water, soil, etc.) but, in general, there is a difference in the way the pear trees and apple trees contribute to a fruit baske… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 28/01/21 12:03 AM |
| 5 | Men who believe that masculinity is toxic or harmful have lower self-esteem and worse metal health than men who embrace their masculinity and see it as a good thingIn that case, why did you use the possessive "have": not the kind of masculinity most of us (I would hope) have People don't "have" social norms. They have traits (biological and cultural). They might conform or not conform to social norms. I'm not saying this to split hairs. TM as a term is fraught because the term "masculinity" has no broadly accepted definition. Even the Wikipedia definition refers to attributes, and allows for biological influence. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 27/01/21 11:45 PM |
| 2 | Do you think it’s possible that women are actually the perverts of society?You're talking about a long-running gendered expectation on men, so it fits perfectly with your account of a tradcon girl falling in line with it. The evolutionary / anthropological explanation is that a male who is more sexually potent and able to spread his gametes as wide as possible is more attractive to a female instinctively, at least for a certain purpose or stage in life. The expectation that men want sex all the time may have started there, but it has since been piled on with all sorts … | /r/MensRights | 27/01/21 10:00 PM |
| 3 | "1 in 4 women have been forced to leave their jobs in 2020 for caregiving needs due to the impact of the Covid-19 pandemic, setting back decades of women’s progress."They're blaming it on caretaking responsibilities Sure, but even if we took that as true, the homeschooling situation is temporary (barring an actual breakdown of the economy in a particular nation). I think someone couldn't wait to use "SHEsession" after the recent use of "HEsession" to describe the years-long trend of traditional male jobs being lost prior to COVID, a trend that will probably resume once COVID is over. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 27/01/21 09:38 PM |
| 8 | How to argue that women do not have some type of special intuition.The idea of a "woman's intuition" is a bit folksy, but you do still see it occasionally in films, etc. It's also sometimes tied to notions about women being more attuned to a certain kind of spirituality. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 27/01/21 09:32 PM |
| 8 | Men who believe that masculinity is toxic or harmful have lower self-esteem and worse metal health than men who embrace their masculinity and see it as a good thingWhen people say "Toxic masculinity" they're referring to a subset of masculinity OP actually didn't use that term. It would be better overall to avoid the use of the term "masculinity" unless you're first going to define it. Are you referring to maleness, to embodied male traits (biological and cultural) or to gendered social norms and expectations? | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 27/01/21 09:20 PM |
| 25 | "1 in 4 women have been forced to leave their jobs in 2020 for caregiving needs due to the impact of the Covid-19 pandemic, setting back decades of women’s progress."setting back decades of women’s progress Aside from anything else, I think this claim is overblown. That many women have lost their jobs during COVID doesn't mean that they wouldn't get them back again should employment conditions improve again. The cultural and educational changes that happened over decades haven't been undone. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 27/01/21 06:42 AM |
| 1 | Toxic Homosexuality: The Feminist Ideology Behind Gay Men Who Hate MenI can see what you're saying, but couldn't it be argued that inattention to the wellbeing of men as a gender (like your pub and suicide examples) takes place anyway and has done for generations, whether or not some gay men have found a way to be exempted from this problem? Can you give an example of how the position of those gay men exacerbates the problem for the rest of men as a gender? | /r/MensRights | 27/01/21 04:37 AM |
| 1 | Toxic Homosexuality: The Feminist Ideology Behind Gay Men Who Hate MenSo I'm clear, you're arguing that a proportion of gay men have participated in an "othering" of the rest of their gender, by siding with a certain kind of feminist thinking and allowing themselves and their identity to be used as part of faulty and harmful arguments around masculinity? | /r/MensRights | 27/01/21 02:16 AM |
| 1 | Toxic Homosexuality: The Feminist Ideology Behind Gay Men Who Hate MenWhile it would depend on the specific case in mind, I can see the argument that the accusation of "homophobia" is perhaps overused and not specific enough. I think it's always been something of a sledgehammer term, even if it was beneficial for gay rights in years past. It may also have to do with sexual minorities all being lumped into one activism group (LGBT+). Speaking of stoppers, I view "toxic masculinity" as a thought-stopper that prevents further discussion about the details of issues af… | /r/MensRights | 27/01/21 12:22 AM |
| 3 | A friend of mine has a rape accusation in a foreign country and he doesn't know how to deal with it.Off topic, but does it strike anyone as crazy that the legal drinking age is higher than the age of consent, given how seriously our society has now begun treating cases involving the latter, and how the two are so often involved together? | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 26/01/21 11:58 PM |
| 1 | Toxic Homosexuality: The Feminist Ideology Behind Gay Men Who Hate MenWhat do you see as the way to improve matters here? I'm a gay man who has never been particularly involved in LGBT activism or feminism, but stories I've heard suggest that the position of gay men in both these groups is increasingly tenuous lately, that they are now seen as too privileged to have a valid voice. | /r/MensRights | 26/01/21 11:46 PM |
| 1 | Men can't say no? [YouTube: Mediocre Tutorials and Reviews]The expectation that "men always want sex" is a useful topic to discuss without even bringing women into it. It's a gender stereotype still perpetuated by media, culture, etc. so it's no surprise that many women also buy into it and expect it. Even if the stereotype weren't still present in movies, TV, etc., it would still persist for at least a generation among some women (and some men). | /r/MensRights | 26/01/21 11:32 PM |
| 0 | Being homophobic is anti-menNot letting men act how they want because it's not manly enough or isn't the 'right' kind of masculinity is forcing men to act a certain way. You make a good point here, though I think you still need to provide evidence of the first claim in your OP. But let's assume you're right for the sake of argument. I think a lot of men currently feel judged by the current cultural conversation for having traditionally masculine traits, while men who embrace the opposite (eg. wearing a dress) are being pra… | /r/MensRights | 26/01/21 11:20 PM |
| 16 | 15 suicides per day: Construction workers seek solutions to industry mental health issueOrganisations like this in Australia focus on suicide prevention in the male-dominated construction industry. They were able to obtain funding using the shocking statistics from research about the disproportionate deaths in the industry. | /r/MensRights | 25/01/21 09:11 PM |
| 11 | The Australian Greens have completely lost touch with reality, this attempt to address "men's wellbeing" proves it.If their only proposed approach is to jam all men's issues into "our feminist framework", they'll continue to see men looking elsewhere. Sorry, but feminism doesn't own gender. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 24/01/21 10:02 PM |
| 3 | What's your counter argument for the feminist argument that men's issues are because of the patriarchy and feminism is trying to smash the patriarchy?There's something suspicious about trying to tie all men's issues back to one "thing". Patriarchy has to do with access to power, thus fails in coverage since many men's issues have to do with access to wellbeing. Long twisted paths have to be taken to tie men's issues back to it. Toxic Masculinity is vague and ill-defined (aside from the obvious problems with the term itself), thus fails in specificity. It shouldn't come as a surprise that these concepts have limited applicability to men's issu… | /r/MensRights | 24/01/21 06:37 AM |
| 2 | International Men's Day was treated like the plagueYou can Google it if you want. International Men's Day has generally been about celebrating men and boys in your life and the contributions they make. Recently, it has tended to be used to draw attention to issues that disproportionately affect men, such as death by suicide and mental health concerns. | /r/MensRights | 23/01/21 10:48 AM |
| 5 | For all those “good women” on the verge of typing not all women, let’s not forget, go and pay your bills and stop assuming men will be “there for you”.I think the word "troll" in the sub's title is a bit of a warning sign! | /r/MensRights | 20/01/21 05:40 AM |
| 2 | For all those “good women” on the verge of typing not all women, let’s not forget, go and pay your bills and stop assuming men will be “there for you”.Yeah, I'd say there's an element of that in there too. I guess it's a bit of a mashup. | /r/MensRights | 20/01/21 04:51 AM |
| -8 | I'm tired of being the target of revenge for things I didn't do.Where do you feel you are receiving these messages from? Specifically, things like you need to be held accountable for other men's sexual harassment, and you've had your turn when it comes to education and employment. Is this an official message you're receiving at school? | /r/MensRights | 20/01/21 04:27 AM |
| 2 | For all those “good women” on the verge of typing not all women, let’s not forget, go and pay your bills and stop assuming men will be “there for you”.Yeah, that's definitely close to it. | /r/MensRights | 20/01/21 02:45 AM |
| 10 | For all those “good women” on the verge of typing not all women, let’s not forget, go and pay your bills and stop assuming men will be “there for you”.Hmm, not sure if this is exactly that, though. This is more like shutting down a separate but related concern by suggesting your critic has the wrong priorities of righteous anger. It's partly an ad hominem, I guess. | /r/MensRights | 20/01/21 02:24 AM |
| 3 | I came across a post talking about "toxic masculinity" In a group about animal memes. I took some screenshots of the top comments.I think 2019 was probably the peak of the negative tone in the public conversation, epitomised by the Gillette ad and the "kill all men" stuff. I'm seeing an increasing number of neutral voices opposing terms like TM, even while others have accepted them. I guess we'll see what happens from here. Despite the tribalism that's happened, I think the outcomes around men's health issues are going to improve over the next few decades, even if other trends affecting everyone (economic, etc.) get worse. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 20/01/21 01:43 AM |
| 5 | I came across a post talking about "toxic masculinity" In a group about animal memes. I took some screenshots of the top comments.Yeah, I'll even say it again. Men waited too long to have their own conversation about masculinity in a dignified, affirming way. We could have set the terms of our own, healthy, positive response to old gender expectations and made a cogent, relevant discourse for what maleness actually means. As is so often pointed out, the term TM was even coined by a person connected to the Mythopoetic Men's Movement 30-40 years ago. That was the last (albeit flawed) attempt by men to confront the topic of m… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 20/01/21 12:52 AM |
| 3 | I came across a post talking about "toxic masculinity" In a group about animal memes. I took some screenshots of the top comments.In my mind, it comes down to the vagueness of the term masculinity. Depending who you talk to, it can mean: cultural expectations and roles placed on males (this is the definition that is probably being assumed by most of the people in that conversation) traits associated with maleness, including both learned and involuntary (eg. having a deep voice is "masculine") maleness itself / masculine essence and identity (eg. "he is masculine") So which is it? And can't women have masculine traits? So w… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 19/01/21 11:50 PM |
| -1 | Australian ad on psychological domestic violence against menI think this is a mischaracterisation, but Australia's government funded initiatives do use a specifically gendered model of family violence, which makes acknowledging and supporting male victims much more difficult than it otherwise would be. So, it's not that they're pro-domestic violence against men. It's that they have decided to have only one spotlight and to place it on female victims and male perpetrators. | /r/MensRights | 19/01/21 10:40 PM |
| 42 | For all those “good women” on the verge of typing not all women, let’s not forget, go and pay your bills and stop assuming men will be “there for you”.There must be a name for the argumentation technique that says, "you suck because you're madder about this than you are about this other thing that's worse". It's like, yes, we should all keep a numbered list so we can at all times track the things we should be mad, madder and maddest about. Or, maybe, we can walk and chew gum at the same time. | /r/MensRights | 19/01/21 10:34 PM |
| 1 | "Never get committed (marriage) & Never provide to her ” Not MGTOWSorry, but the specific words you use matter a lot in discussions like this, because you can easily get grouped in with the kind of views that you have deliberately distanced yourself from. | /r/MensRights | 19/01/21 09:36 PM |
| 50 | I came across a post talking about "toxic masculinity" In a group about animal memes. I took some screenshots of the top comments.It's the obvious consequence of the popularisation of such a hateful term. First it's "it doesn't mean all masculinity is toxic" Then it's "most masculinities are toxic" Then "all masculinity is toxic" It's a short jump from there to "there's just something toxic about men - they are masculine after all". | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 19/01/21 10:07 AM |
| 9 | AITA For walking out on my roommate and her kids?This is, without a doubt, a crazy situation and all the top comments are NTA. Thinking about whether there's any discussion to be had from the point of view of gender expectations. I feel like the OP seems to have fallen into a traditional provider role without either party ever explicitly establishing this. He apparently accepted all these responsibilities over time, and she apparently came to expect that he would be the "dad". All without any communication. And his friends are demanding that h… | /r/MensRights | 19/01/21 05:52 AM |
| 5 | Got into a bit of an argument about Kill All Men.most people don't really question why they say or uphold certain things, and truth be told I'm guilty of it too It's exhausting to constantly hold all beliefs in question. I guess the difference now is that everyone has a loudspeaker that everyone else in the entire world can hear. And instead of listening to people who might be patient or forgiving with people who have different views, it's the people who are spoiling for a righteous fight that get amplified. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 19/01/21 05:38 AM |
| 1 | I really hate it when someone says "teach men not to *insert violent crime*", "toxic masculinity*, and any other buzzy words.Just want to say I've enjoyed reading this discussion. I think an argument can be made that many men's problems with emotional literacy and repression today (the way you describe going back to grandfathers and war) could be called generational trauma. | /r/MensRights | 19/01/21 04:30 AM |
| 2 | The whole turning traditionally male things into feminine things has gotten so badLately your sarcastic comments have been more on-the-money. Upvoted. EDIT: This isn't meant to be a pile-on, OP. I agree with other commenters that there's definitely problems with many of the recent female-led films. | /r/MensRights | 19/01/21 04:21 AM |
| 2 | "Never get committed (marriage) & Never provide to her ” Not MGTOWYou've really got to work on your language. "Compliance" sounds like something a jailer demands of their prisoners. It seems like your thing is to keep romantic relationships permanently at arms length. In older times this was called being a confirmed bachelor, though it usually precluded having children and, unless the man was wealthy, it meant a lonely and destitute old age without anyone to take care of him. In much of the 20th Century, partnering up was a practical measure to most efficientl… | /r/MensRights | 19/01/21 04:13 AM |
| 1 | Teenager says he hates being a boyI'm saying the opposite - that people who use those terms get consistently downvoted because they're enforcing their idea of masculinity. Are you saying you've seen otherwise on this sub? I've already expressed my sympathy for the kid who made this post. Why would you think I would judge him with terms like that? | /r/MensRights | 19/01/21 03:37 AM |
| 3 | I Loathe Girl PowerWe never have movies where traditionalist or "toxic" feminine characters eventually come around and adopt masculine traits to save the day or whatever. Can I suggest Bridesmaids? I think this is the arc we see with Kristen Wiig's character. For most of the film she is passive-aggressive and subversive - archetypal negative feminine behaviours. She even pre-judges the male romantic interest as only being interested in sex, which is clearly shown to be her projection. Her turning point is a locker… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 18/01/21 10:16 PM |
| 9 | Why I am not a Feminist.The interesting thing to me is Patriarchy is a malleable enough doctrine that it has been reworked over the decades. The problem is it no longer has enough explanatory power for the aspirations that some feminists have, which is for feminism to be the replacement for men's movements, to solve men's problems as well as women's. Put simply, the concept hinges around access to power (making it very useful for women's liberation), but most men's issues have not derived from a lack of access to power… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 18/01/21 09:48 PM |
| 1 | Teenager says he hates being a boydemand and take a stance to change such What does this look like to you, in terms of a sub? All we can really do here is talk about things. I notice that people who come in here with beta / cuck / soyboy type language get consistently downvoted. I grew up in the 80s-90s and what's described in this post seems worse, not better than I remember it. I don't know if it's because the Internet means we're all exposed to the worst cases now, but these conversations make me feel like I'm in some kind of… | /r/MensRights | 18/01/21 09:17 PM |
| 3 | Teenager says he hates being a boyI get what you're saying - everyone contributes. But where do you see that conversation going on a sub, other than people agreeing that that behavior sucks, and being made to feel guilty about it? | /r/MensRights | 18/01/21 11:03 AM |
| 7 | Teenager says he hates being a boyI think social pressures have a broad handle as well as a sharp end. This poor guy has been experiencing the sharp end in the form of his peers (presumably). This doesn't mean the broad handle (media, society) isn't every bit as important. I'm sorry if you've been getting flak for just saying that men can be arseholes to other men. This is obviously true. It's worth noting that this kid highlights aspects that all the talk about "toxic masculinity" doesn't cover: things like lack of social conne… | /r/MensRights | 18/01/21 09:20 AM |
| 1 | SMH. There is no such thing as toxic masculinity.OK, but then you could replace "TM" with "drugs" or "gangs". eg. People with low self-esteem, issues, etc. are more likely to turn to drugs or gangs. | /r/MensRights | 18/01/21 09:04 AM |
| 2 | I really hate it when someone says "teach men not to *insert violent crime*", "toxic masculinity*, and any other buzzy words.Looking to understand someone's issues and address those issues is a better way to deal with a problem than "training men" Yeah, it's (ironically) a very paternalistic thing to say, but I think that a number of people only say it in response to "teach women about safety". However, the attitude that we need to change men or change masculinity, without actually listening to men is the real issue in my mind. | /r/MensRights | 18/01/21 03:58 AM |
| 4 | Boys, Race, and California Schools: all boys of all races do worse than their female counterparts of the same race in California schools.But they'll see this and say "This is proof women are smarter" Not in exactly those terms, but I have heard people say "maybe this just shows that girls are better at school, now that schools are fair". Talk about the desired outcome leading the question. Governments and society in general should be shitting their pants after a glance at these statistics. This means serious economic and social problems within half a generation's time unless this is fixed fast. "This boy is Ignorance. This girl i… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 18/01/21 02:48 AM |
| 2 | I really hate it when someone says "teach men not to *insert violent crime*", "toxic masculinity*, and any other buzzy words.Can you be more specific here? What sort of "environments" are you referring to? | /r/MensRights | 18/01/21 02:19 AM |
| 1 | Feeling beautiful in a society that suppresses male beauty?I'm late to this post but I think there's a couple of angles here. To answer your question, I personally haven't been very adventurous in pursuing a personal style that makes me feel physically beautiful. My wardrobe choices are relatively bland and conservative. Recently getting more serious about fitness (started Crossfit) has had a dramatic effect on my body. Apart from attractiveness, I have begun to see myself more as a physical being, where previously I took a very cerebral attitude to lif… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 17/01/21 11:13 PM |
| 3 | No such thing as Toxic MasculinityI think a big part of the issue is that masculinity itself is such a fraught and sensitive topic, something that people haven't wanted to talk about for a long time in a context of economic change and increasing social isolation, and now the public conversation is being had in such an overall negative way. When feminists began critiquing femininity, a lot of women (and men) didn't like it, but at least the conversation was by women, for women. And it contained positives - the promise of women ga… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 17/01/21 10:33 PM |
| 3 | I really hate it when someone says "teach men not to *insert violent crime*", "toxic masculinity*, and any other buzzy words.Yeah, I think you're describing some of how gender norms and roles developed through pre-history and history. Your example of the costumes really illustrates the paucity and inadequacy of the language we have to describe the way today's men are affected by this legacy. In the case of women's lack of options, feminists might use terms like patriarchy or misogyny. In the case of men, what you're noticing here is the cultural gender norm of "male-as-utility", men being valued only for what they do,… | /r/MensRights | 17/01/21 09:46 PM |
| 1 | SMH. There is no such thing as toxic masculinity.So, straight away you began talking about traits, which I think contradicts your own definition that it has to do with cultural norms. Based on the scenarios you gave (low self esteem, etc.), I think it's worth considering how many of the traits you mentioned have little to do with gender norms and more to do dysfunctional behaviour resulting from poor responses to traumas and other problems. | /r/MensRights | 17/01/21 09:28 PM |
| 2 | SMH. There is no such thing as toxic masculinity.Ok, I'll bite, but I'm not going to use that term. Unhealthy and restrictive gender norms affect men and boys. What do you think should be done about it, other than agreeing that it's Very Very Bad? | /r/MensRights | 17/01/21 11:04 AM |
| 1 | Laws are made by men, just not for them.Of course this shit doesn’t matter to you. I'm not quite sure how to read this. It matters in the sense that most men have female loved ones. But also, pressure and stigma around career choices is not just about power/dominance either. Ask a male kindergarten teacher, or a stay-at-home dad. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 16/01/21 06:26 AM |
| 5 | How the Australian Media and Public Treats a Case of Domestic MurderI would never want to downplay the importance of the shift in attention towards family violence against women in Australia. The numbers are too high and speak for themselves. But I think the Rosy Batty incident and other similar tragedies, combined with the official gendered approach being taken to family violence, has somehow flicked our collective "gallantry" switch into overdrive. We always had these men being called monsters by the press, but too many Aussies seem to be unable to sympathise … | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 16/01/21 04:11 AM |
| 2 | Laws are made by men, just not for them.Now, I wish there was perhaps a broader word that means "how society decided which group had power" that we used to discuss most issues. I would actually go broader and say "how society divided roles and responsibilities". While access to material power (economic, political, military and physical) obviously matters, I don't think it is as relevant to men as a gender issue as it is to women. Where subgroups of men have been denied access to power, we've had labour, peace movements, etc. The histo… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 16/01/21 04:00 AM |
| 2 | Laws are made by men, just not for them.All I can say is that if "patriarchy" is limited to a definition of power and oppression, that means it also has limited usefulness in bringing men on board with concepts around gender roles/expectations and the particular problems men face because of them. I can see why that would also make it a lightning rod for those who are looking for things to discredit feminism or to paint it as irrelevant to men. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 16/01/21 12:25 AM |
| 1 | Feminism as per usual blames men for not seeking healthcare (women who also dont seek healthcare of course thats just sexism against women), yet reality is men have very few entry points into healthcare. No pregnancy, birthcontrol, no screening programmes etc no mens health policies in 98% countriesI appreciate your perspective as a doctor, and I hope you don't feel blamed in this conversation as though you are not offering a professional and expert service. I feel like these discussions around men are too often uninformed by real data or expertise. Yes, I suspect work is probably playing a role. This is both in the here-and-now - more men than women work full time. But also in terms of the cultural legacy of gender roles - female in charge of the health of the family, male as provider who… | /r/MensRights | 15/01/21 10:41 PM |
| 1 | Feminism as per usual blames men for not seeking healthcare (women who also dont seek healthcare of course thats just sexism against women), yet reality is men have very few entry points into healthcare. No pregnancy, birthcontrol, no screening programmes etc no mens health policies in 98% countriesWell, a man does not need to be pregnant to see a doctor. He can pick up a phone That's the whole point of this discussion. Men can do that but they aren't. What explains this difference between men and women? The answer that says, "men are too afraid / tough / toxic to take the initiative and go" has been with us for a while and it doesn't seem to be fixing the problem. On the other hand, we know that women have more contact with the health system during their lives than men due to mandatory sc… | /r/MensRights | 15/01/21 09:18 PM |
| 16 | How the Australian Media and Public Treats a Case of Domestic MurderThanks for this summary. I was following the basic news but not the reaction. I have noticed a lot of "she was such a lovely woman". That sort of talk is always condemned in cases of a male murderer, including when it's a murder-suicide. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 15/01/21 08:57 PM |
| 3 | Research shows that men benefit from talk therapy just as much, if not more, than women. Yet most men still won't go. Might the APA's contempt for masculinity be relevant?the article literally shows that it’s a problem within men I'm going to call you out on this statement. You can argue that these particular men have internalised certain gendered expectations like male disposability, and that this is part of the picture. However, framing the problem as "within men" removes the system perspective. Consider if someone said that the problem of women not choosing STEM is "within women". If that's the only way you frame it, then there's no need to look at STEM workpl… | /r/MensRights | 15/01/21 02:19 AM |
| -1 | Research shows that men benefit from talk therapy just as much, if not more, than women. Yet most men still won't go. Might the APA's contempt for masculinity be relevant?I still think this is pushing the blame onto the psychiatrists without a valid reason Why does this have to be about blame? If we recognise that a service is not being accessed by a demographic, the first reaction should not be "What's wrong with that demographic?". It should be, "How can we improve the service's reach, or improve the service itself, to better address that demographic?" thus I must resort to deception and call my therapy office "The extermination of inner demons society" or some… | /r/MensRights | 15/01/21 01:50 AM |
| 3 | You can't have it both ways.Sure, but my question had to do with your offer for male advocates to join you. What does this look like to you? In what ways do you see the two groups working together? | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 14/01/21 10:56 PM |
| 10 | Male Makeup Brand War Paint Slammed as Fragile MasculinityRather, you're toxically masculine if you refuse to do typically feminine things like wear makeup, but you're fragily masculine if you demand these product appeal to your personal interests. Men can't win in the current cultural "conversation" about masculinity. But marketers and advertisers just blunder in and make everything worse. FFS all makeup has gendered marketing and branding. Have you ever seen a beauty or toiletry product in a plain white jar, besides bulk moisturiser? And I don't mean… | /r/MensRights | 14/01/21 10:44 PM |
| 5 | Laws are made by men, just not for them.Maybe this has changed recently, but I grew up with a definition that implied patriarchal power accrued to men all the way down the system, from the king ordering his harem to the lowliest peasant beating his wife. From definitions I've seen online in "Feminism 101" type sites today, the term seems to be mainly about the wielding of power and oppression rather than any consideration of who actually "benefits" in terms of quality of life and flourishing. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 14/01/21 10:06 PM |
| 8 | Laws are made by men, just not for them.I do think that, given this recent emphasis on "both genders getting fucked over", maybe it's time for a change in terminology? 'Patriarchy' could be replaced with a more gender-neutral term like "legacy system of gender norms and expectations". | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 14/01/21 09:45 PM |
| 11 | You can't have it both ways.You men want to attack feminism or you want to join to us What does this look like to you? Not all male advocates are anti-feminist. Some are just feminist-adjacent. My impression of the history of the various men's movements is that pro-feminist men's movements simply get absorbed into feminism and then disappear. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 14/01/21 08:52 AM |
| 4 | How to change the stereotypical view on men on a large scale in society?Something like a soft-men-movement? That's probably the worst thing you could do. See, eg. the Sensitive New Age Guy and the Metrosexual in the 90s. It's always short-lived and ultimately reviled. Does more harm than good. People just need to see a diversity of men in all walks of life, and to see that diversity respected. Men who embody traditional masculinities and men who don't, but either way it's in a healthy way. Work towards better connection between men, through formal and informal group… | /r/MensRights | 14/01/21 02:02 AM |
| 12 | Men are never the victims always the attackers. Found in Cranbourne, Vic. men's toiletsAre you familiar with Mensline Australia and the experiences men have had calling it? Services like this have improved at making their advertising and website content appear gender-neutral, but the state and federal approaches to the issue of domestic violence in Australia remain tied to a gendered power model. This even includes a mandatory school-based curriculum in my home state which goes to absurd lengths to downplay or deny the existence of female perpetrators and male victims. We can see … | /r/MensRights | 14/01/21 01:03 AM |
| 3 | Women have much MUCH worse standards than men, men are not compared to other people like celebrity'sYeah, there's also a number of angles. It's apparent that the current "system" for dating is especially destructive for young men and, unless something changes, we're looking at big social problems in the next few decades. Outside of dating, I think that women do feel a stronger pressure to manage their physical appearance in terms of beauty / attractiveness. As a man, I'm relieved that I'm not expected to spend huge amounts of time in front of a mirror just so I can be made up for work each day… | /r/MensRights | 13/01/21 10:04 PM |
| 3 | Is "MRA isn't about equality its about hating feminism" the biggest projection of all time by feminists? 😂 I mean here feminists originated by looking at social issues but feminists said NO NO NO we HAVE to blame men, don't look at social issues, BLAME MEN INSTEAD. Patriarchy conspiracy theory bornYou're talking about a system of gender roles and expectations that affects both men and women negatively. Using the term "patriarchy" to name this suggests a single gender is responsible for it. | /r/MensRights | 13/01/21 09:56 PM |
| 1 | Raise your hand if you're a male and you lost a job in December. There's no way they can just make this stuff up and not be held accountable.DECADES of progress is being undone in a single year. Except it's not. It took decades for women to be accepted in a number of workplaces, to make it culturally acceptable to deprioritise the traditional female role in the home, and to achieve similar (now actually higher) tertiary graduation rates than men. Job losses now doesn't mean those cultural and educational changes are undone. In line with the employment trends leading up to 2020, and given the kind of jobs lost, I think women are in a … | /r/MensRights | 13/01/21 12:56 AM |
| 1 | Are there stereotypes about men from feminist that you don't understand?There's certain things that I just haven't experienced in my own life. I'm being asked to believe that they exist in large enough numbers to be a serious problem, but I have very little data in my own life to connect. eg. the emphasis placed on crippling masculine expectations. My parents were neither particularly liberal nor particularly conservative. They seemed happy for me to express emotions appropriately. I never heard "boys will be boys" uttered in my house. Violence was never countenance… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 12/01/21 10:43 PM |
| 5 | Are there stereotypes about men from feminist that you don't understand?I think this is an example of feminist talking points dovetailing with traditional notions about men (puppy dog tails etc.) rather than challenging them. The same thing happens with a lot of domestic violence initiatives - relying on an older cultural legacy (or biological instinct) that assumes women are always victims. This tendency to employ traditional gender expectations when convenient is one of the reasons why I can't trust feminism as a movement to thoroughly address men's concerns. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 12/01/21 10:29 PM |
| 2 | Coding opprotunityIf the justification here is an imbalance of computer science / IT graduates by gender, the same approach could be applied to a number of fields where female graduates now outnumber male, including medicine and law. | /r/MensRights | 12/01/21 10:15 PM |
| 3 | Raise your hand if you're a male and you lost a job in December. There's no way they can just make this stuff up and not be held accountable.This is true, despite the misleading headline. The bulk of the job losses for men will come in the medium-long term with the economic fallout over the next decade. | /r/MensRights | 12/01/21 10:05 PM |
| 7 | Raise your hand if you're a male and you lost a job in December. There's no way they can just make this stuff up and not be held accountable.On the face of it, a statement that "women... account for 100% of jobs lost in December" reads that the only people who lost jobs in December were women. The headline doesn't capture the nuance in the article. You'd have to be very naïve to think it wasn't deliberately written this way. Further, the article (and supporting data) doesn't distinguish between part time and full time work. Women had a much higher proportion of part time jobs in the US at the start of 2020. | /r/MensRights | 12/01/21 10:03 PM |
| 3 | Why do people automaticaly identify the topic of "gender equality" exclusively with feminism?In the late 1970s, the men's liberation movement split into two separate strands with opposing views: the pro-feminist men's movement and the anti-feminist men's rights movement. It seems to me that the "pro-feminist men's movement" doesn't really exist today. I suspect it was wholly absorbed by feminism. As for the "men's rights movement", I think your criticism is partly true. That this is all we seem to have left is a huge disappointment to me as someone who first began reading about men's is… | /r/MensRights | 12/01/21 10:41 AM |
| 2 | Why do people automaticaly identify the topic of "gender equality" exclusively with feminism?I'm curious, do you have hope for MRAs or do you see it as a failed movement? If the latter, do you think a men's movement is necessary? | /r/MensRights | 12/01/21 10:00 AM |
| 1 | My experience with the difficulties of feminist men's communitiesPretty sure this is a sarcasm comment. | /r/MensRights | 12/01/21 08:44 AM |
| 17 | My experience with the difficulties of feminist men's communitiesfundamentally feminism as a movement is not about men I guess it's nice to see that admitted point blank by a mod on a pro-feminist sub for men. | /r/MensRights | 12/01/21 05:51 AM |
| 1 | "The Decline of Male Friendship is Harming Men"If you read through the comments on this post you'll see a lot of reasons. In short, it's part of a larger cultural change that includes changes in work and leisure, changes in gender relations and romantic relationships, disintegration of the old formal and informal male social networks and outlets. The net effect is that male friendships have overall been less resilient to these changes than female. | /r/MensRights | 12/01/21 05:46 AM |
| 2 | "The Decline of Male Friendship is Harming Men"Yeah mobility is a huge factor in this issue. The amount that people move around today is historically unprecedented. | /r/MensRights | 12/01/21 05:39 AM |
| 2 | Im interested to learn what brought you to a MRA stance, what was your ideological journey?Yeah "our" ABC sometimes leaves a lot to be desired. I find it hilarious that someone can keep a straight face and say that it's not biased on a number of issues. It's OK to acknowledge that all media outlets have bias, and at least it's not as bad as the BBC. To be fair, that Q&A episode with the all-feminist panel was roundly criticised and was probably the reason they went back to having a male host. But generally I find Q&A is a trainwreck. Too many panelists. re: domestic violence, I feel l… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 12/01/21 02:58 AM |
| 2 | Why do people automaticaly identify the topic of "gender equality" exclusively with feminism?Yeah this sort of factionalism seems to be a particular problem of our times. No doubt the Internet is playing a role. What doesn't help is I think the tendency towards an anti-feminist stance among many MRAs is often misinterpreted or mischaracterised as a traditionalist reactionary response. In many cases, it is quite the opposite - a perception by men, especially younger men, that the current establishment narrative of male oppressor / female oppressed (or male privilege / female disadvantage… | /r/MensRights | 12/01/21 01:31 AM |
| 1 | "The Decline of Male Friendship is Harming Men"Yeah, covid threw a spanner in the works for most IRL social activities. It's not forever though. | /r/MensRights | 12/01/21 12:01 AM |
| 2 | Why do people automaticaly identify the topic of "gender equality" exclusively with feminism?For us men, it is definitely possible for us to focus on men’s issues while also being feminist! But I think the female-centred legacy of concepts and vocabulary in feminism often hamstrings those efforts, which is why I think we need men's advocacy that is separate from feminism while allowing for compatibility with feminism where appropriate. Feminism doesn't get to own the discussion of gender and gender equality, but it has laid some useful foundations to adapt when it comes to men's issues. | /r/MensRights | 11/01/21 11:50 PM |
| 1 | "The Decline of Male Friendship is Harming Men"Have you considered an activity or hobby that has a social element? Being part of a different group of friends / acquaintances might give you some context when interacting with your existing friendship group. | /r/MensRights | 11/01/21 11:31 PM |
| 2 | "The Decline of Male Friendship is Harming Men"I think those elite mens clubs were the obvious poster children for that, yeah. It's worth noting that a number of them also excluded men who didn't tick the right boxes (eg. class, education, race, wealth). Others were deliberate in being open to all men. | /r/MensRights | 11/01/21 11:27 PM |
| 1 | "The Decline of Male Friendship is Harming Men"There's nothing wrong with that number IMO. It's a myth that people benefit from having tons of friends, and it also depends on your personality. | /r/MensRights | 11/01/21 11:21 PM |
| 1 | Why do people automaticaly identify the topic of "gender equality" exclusively with feminism?Reading this, it concerns me that feminism seems to have rebranded the word "patriarchy" to mean something different than it originally meant. Much of feminist terminology has been redefined and adjusted over the last 80 years. Since feminist discourse has historically centred women's concerns and not men's, the terminology has evolved in rather a lopsided way. eg. misogyny doesn't mean hatred of women but systemic sexism against women, but the doctrine precludes such a definition for misandry b… | /r/MensRights | 11/01/21 10:19 PM |
| 5 | Why do people automaticaly identify the topic of "gender equality" exclusively with feminism?Propaganda is basically advertisement True, and this is something people often aren't aware of. The pioneers of commercial advertising were trained in the same psychological theory and techniques used by political propagandists. | /r/MensRights | 11/01/21 10:05 PM |
| 4 | "The Decline of Male Friendship is Harming Men"If you don't, there is this nagging feeling that what you do is somehow wrong. Ok I get that. On the one hand, I respect the choices of guys who would prefer to do activities that don't exclude women. On the other hand, I think it's only a matter of time before men get past that guilt / awkwardness you're describing, particularly if it doesn't make sense in the context of the activity. In my mind, the worst thing that could happen is for some kind of "backlash" movement where a critical mass of … | /r/MensRights | 11/01/21 09:39 AM |
| 1 | "The Decline of Male Friendship is Harming Men"I was with you up until this: male clubs are disappearing because feminist-minded people hate the idea of men's groups. Men are evil and men in groups are uber-vile. While I agree that sometimes male-only groups have been ended because of feminist pressure, I think that tide is changing. It just takes men to start new things at this point, or rejuvenate old things. eg. I participate in a men's choir (Barbershop Harmony) and there is concern in some clubs around the world that younger men aren't … | /r/MensRights | 11/01/21 07:41 AM |
| 5 | "The Decline of Male Friendship is Harming Men"Surely there must be... actual legitimate sources that address this issue without acting like it's men's rights vs feminism. Feel free to link one. Here's a podcast on the topic from a source that's not anti-feminist, and an old thread on menslib, if that's your bag. The OP article isn't great, but it's provoked some good discussion. I haven't seen anything homophobic or much particularly partisan in the comments (at least not yet). | /r/MensRights | 11/01/21 07:30 AM |
| 3 | What's your arguments against feminists who argue that clear cases of misandry are actually misogyny?The following response may be interpreted as too conciliatory, but may be effective for someone who doesn't like a combative approach. The reason for attributing men's issues only to misogyny is partly because of the historical legacy of feminist thought and discourse, and partly because of the very gender expectations and roles that feminists claim to oppose. By referring to the legacy of feminist thought, I'm not claiming that all feminists have a Victim Mindset. Rather, it is a familiarised m… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 11/01/21 04:33 AM |
| 7 | "The Decline of Male Friendship is Harming Men"I get that you don't like people who change their minds, but I wonder if these guys are the most in need of reconnecting? Of course, not saying that you should base a friendship on sympathy alone. What you said made me think of the advice in this recent podcast from AOM: "We discuss how everyone is “spoiled” by relationships in their youth, and why men struggle more than women to learn to take the initiative in this regard later in life. We end our discussion with why therapy isn’t the right sol… | /r/MensRights | 11/01/21 03:00 AM |
| 23 | "The Decline of Male Friendship is Harming Men"During the last decades, male spaces were demonized and scraped. I wonder if there's any good source / book on the main reasons this occurred, besides the obvious "feminist pressure". I think there's a number of other reasons: some male-only spaces had developed a reputation for elite networking, making them easy targets for criticism over lack of inclusion, those benevolent male-only spaces that didn't suffer this issue often acquired a dusty, old-fashioned image (eg. barbershops only became re… | /r/MensRights | 11/01/21 12:18 AM |
| 27 | "The Decline of Male Friendship is Harming Men"Yeah that was a surprisingly open-minded series. I was kind of shocked, but the Guardian occasionally comes out with very pro-male articles too. | /r/MensRights | 11/01/21 12:04 AM |
| 148 | "The Decline of Male Friendship is Harming Men"Don't know much about the source, but it's disappointing if male-only social outlets are continuing to be suppressed in academic environments. I truly believe that the reinvigoration of male friendship with comradeship and intimacy (this needn't imply sexual intimacy) is the most important social change on the way that will positively impact men's wellbeing during the 21st century. Some of this is already taking place through generational change. It's my understanding that young to middle-aged m… | /r/MensRights | 10/01/21 10:08 PM |
| 5 | Too many Women. No, not all women disassociate from pain suffered by men in the courts or the lies told about their value, than basking in the safety net created by them - there are just too many of them that do.As TehReedster89 points out, it is a rhetorical strategy that falls somewhere between incendiary and dishonest. Consider this sequence: "Women don't care about male problems." "Not all women." "Too many women." The goal isn't to arrive at point 3. It is to be able to continue to make point 1 and have a "gotcha" comeback should anyone try to respond with point 2. | /r/MensRights | 10/01/21 09:47 PM |
| 2 | "Prostate cancer now kills more people than breast cancer, UK figures reveal" - A common feminist lie is that men dont die of prostate cancer and die of other things, hence one of reasons its funded less... this is false... more men actually die of the disease than breast cancerDefensive? I asked about a vague assertion you made... Anyway, I don't normally DM but I guess you can DM me if you want to continue a conversation that you yourself said there's nothing to gain from... | /r/MensRights | 10/01/21 04:53 AM |
| 2 | "Prostate cancer now kills more people than breast cancer, UK figures reveal" - A common feminist lie is that men dont die of prostate cancer and die of other things, hence one of reasons its funded less... this is false... more men actually die of the disease than breast cancerStill not following. Are you saying that MRAs are responsible for the conditions of women in developing countries, for abortion law, for unhealthy and restrictive gendered expectations that fall on both men and women? | /r/MensRights | 10/01/21 02:20 AM |
| 2 | "Prostate cancer now kills more people than breast cancer, UK figures reveal" - A common feminist lie is that men dont die of prostate cancer and die of other things, hence one of reasons its funded less... this is false... more men actually die of the disease than breast cancerBut y’all don’t think that, which lol in an ironic way perfectly proves feminism. Not really following your logic there. How does that "prove feminism"? It proves that feminism has an image / communication problem maybe. I'm not even particularly anti-feminist BTW. | /r/MensRights | 10/01/21 02:00 AM |
| 12 | What do you think of this article: "The US economy lost 140,000 jobs in December. All of them were held by women"?Yeah, the headline is technically correct depending on how you read it, but deliberately designed to get clicks. They admit as much in the article: These are net numbers, which can mask some of the underlying churn in the labor market. Of course many men lost their jobs in December, too — but when taken together as a group, they came out ahead, whereas women fell behind. Needless to say, the seemingly large figure of 140,000 is dwarfed by the overall job losses of both men and women through 2020… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 10/01/21 01:42 AM |
| 82 | "Prostate cancer now kills more people than breast cancer, UK figures reveal" - A common feminist lie is that men dont die of prostate cancer and die of other things, hence one of reasons its funded less... this is false... more men actually die of the disease than breast cancerFrom the article: We need to bust that myth that it is just an old man’s disease that you don’t need to think is significant The main rebuttal I've heard when someone raises the gulf in funding between prostate cancer and breast cancer is "breast cancer affects younger people". | /r/MensRights | 09/01/21 08:46 AM |
| 3 | Boys 'being held back by sexist female teachers' as gender stereotypes are reinforced in the classroom [why aren't feminists doing anything about (and blocking those who are) 98% early years teachers being female - by their own logic this is a matriarchy and will produce sexist outcomes right??]i agree with some of your sentiment, I think you might need to re-evaluate your perception of men and boys who are not opting for tertiary education. Sorry, I may not have been clear. I was advocating that all boys deserve a positive experience of primary and secondary education. I definitely don't believe everyone needs, or benefits to the same extent from, tertiary academia. I also agree that it currently leaves much to be desired anyway. | /r/MensRights | 08/01/21 06:42 AM |
| 15 | Boys 'being held back by sexist female teachers' as gender stereotypes are reinforced in the classroom [why aren't feminists doing anything about (and blocking those who are) 98% early years teachers being female - by their own logic this is a matriarchy and will produce sexist outcomes right??]I agree that men dominate in a large number of trade-based careers which often can still be accessed without academic tertiary paths. But I also think a well-balanced education matters for other reasons. We don't need boys developing anti-intellectual attitudes because of lack of exposure to male role models in school. Critical thinking is more vital than ever, and boys do benefit from being exposed to science, mathematics, literature and history in an engaging way. | /r/MensRights | 08/01/21 03:11 AM |
| 36 | Boys 'being held back by sexist female teachers' as gender stereotypes are reinforced in the classroom [why aren't feminists doing anything about (and blocking those who are) 98% early years teachers being female - by their own logic this is a matriarchy and will produce sexist outcomes right??]About 20 years ago, I undertook a post-graduate diploma in school education after a few years working as an engineer. Our guest lecturer on the student context of gender was an avowed feminist who spent the whole lecture talking about girls. Boys struggling in education happened to be a talking point at the time, and she dismissed it immediately by saying that men are advantaged after school. In the post-lecture tutorial, all the men and women in the room were like "WTF was that!?" | /r/MensRights | 08/01/21 01:55 AM |
| 1 | The myth of benevolent sexism: treating women better than men is not sexism against women.Yeah I didn't say that they have since revised the definition. I once linked a definition from that website during a conversation with a "feminism is for men too" feminist and they didn't seem to accept it as representative of their movement today, so I guess you can't win. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 07/01/21 08:59 PM |
| 5 | Radox drops 'For Men' from its product line as it is deemed sexist.Gendered marketing, like most modern marketing, is nothing more than exploitation of the desires and insecurities of both men and women. It's well known that it works in many cases. Depending on the product, a virtually identical product with male-coded branding can cost more (or less) than the female-coded one. But, if they're going to remove a male-specific product line, they should also ensure that the generic line is not explicitly female-coded as has historically been the case with a lot of… | /r/MensRights | 06/01/21 09:52 PM |
| 1 | The myth of benevolent sexism: treating women better than men is not sexism against women.I feel like you're giving too much credit to their foresight and perspective here. It's far more likely that they weren't thinking about men or the male perspective at all. They were just trying to fit everything into a female-as-victim model. I don't think the language of privilege was really a thing back then like it is now. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 06/01/21 09:38 PM |
| 3 | Does the men's rights movement believe in Toxic Masculinity?In my view, the term is unhelpful at best and harmful at worst. As for the concept (assuming you mean restrictive gender roles for men), it has some value but is too often employed as a thought-stopper and a way of shifting the agency onto men as individuals. For example, this is readily identifiable when men's mental health is discussed. There are a number of things that could be done to make mental health and suicide prevention initiatives work better for men, if we're willing to listen to men… | /r/MensRights | 06/01/21 06:28 AM |
| 12 | I can’t help but wonder if these kind of people would think the same way if a popular female character was changed into a man.Superheros doesn't really work because those are already female equivalents more or less. But a unique, iconic character like Ellen Ripley -> Alan Ripley. Or Katniss Everdeen -> Kevin Everdeen. Then it would be more interesting. Well, the reaction would be interesting. The movie would be kind of boring because there's plenty of similar movies with male leads. | /r/MensRights | 06/01/21 06:09 AM |
| 3 | This Professional Accounting Body in Australia is Running a Male Mental Health Webinar! And It's FreeThere's nothing in the blurb to give that away. Maybe give them the benefit of the doubt. | /r/MensRights | 06/01/21 05:59 AM |
| 1 | Most women are hypocritesMan that sucks. I appreciate hearing your life experiences. I'm reluctant to offer advice, but I think you're already doing awesomely to have the self-awareness you have. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 05/01/21 12:07 AM |
| 11 | Most women are hypocritesI think you're right that a lot of women don't understand what men deal with. Feel free to take this advice with a grain of salt, but maybe it would help at this point to focus less on women in general, so you can reset your cynicism before it gets too high - for your own sake. There can be a fine line between identifying a grievance, nursing a grudge and that deepening into serious cynicism or rage. We tend to make light of the "angry feminists" of the 70s, but I really think that many of them … | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 04/01/21 10:20 PM |
| 2 | Pushing the belief that LGBT people and women are on the same sideJust let me be clear - I'm not saying all activism is like that. But I think it's a predictable outcome when activism is too focused on identifying and scaling victims and oppressors by whichever group. Maybe it's sort of the Achilles Heel of intersectionality - the difference between theory and practice. Obviously you can't ignore the reality of groups either so there's probably a balance to be had. Also, I'm well aware that I'm less likely than many others in sexual or gender minorities to be … | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 04/01/21 06:00 AM |
| 33 | You Can't Bash Men For Toxic Masculinity And Then Insult Them Whenever They Express ThemselvesSadly, this is common use of "toxic masculinity" as a thought-stopper. Also a conversation stopper in this case! | /r/MensRights | 03/01/21 11:38 PM |
| 1 | I'm a trans girl now, but I still want to fight for men's liberationAs a gay man who attends an affirming church, I'm sorry you and other transfolk have had shitty experiences with religious people. It's depressing how long it's taken to move even as far as we have, but I would like to be able to welcome transfolk too. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 03/01/21 11:19 PM |
| 14 | Pushing the belief that LGBT people and women are on the same sideThere's barely a crumb of actual content in the article, but I agree with the general point you're making. Setting up such a simplistic model of oppressor-oppressed is not helpful in either direction. I've never been very politically active, but in some branches of political / social activism it seems like gay men are increasingly being expected to choose an identity to indicate which side we're on. Are you LGBT (oppressed) or are you a Man (oppressor)? Not healthy at all. Trying to pit LGBT peo… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 03/01/21 10:48 PM |
| 12 | How the hell do other men find any will to live???It sounds like you're having a really rough time. I know you've probably heard this before, but a bunch of ideologues and fanatics on the Internet don't represent people in general. Sometimes I think the Internet is like the old peanut gallery, except they all think their terrible opinions are worth something because they get upvotes and likes for them. You don't deserve to feel miserable, and it's absolutely not right the way these conversations are so one-sided right now. I don't think it will… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 03/01/21 10:31 PM |
| 5 | Being proactiveBoom. This is a big change due to take place after COVID retreats. There's so many different options for activities now, and the stigma / baggage of male social outlets is less prevalent than it was in the 80s and 90s. I'd only add that men need to have the courage to recognise and act when a group like that goes dysfunctional, which is bound to happen sometimes. | /r/MensRights | 03/01/21 09:09 AM |
| 7 | Kids Helpline continues to fail boys. No-one cares.The use of the feminist model of "toxic masculinity", blaming boys for their lack of engagement with services, has resulted in a relative fall in use of services by boys. It could be that this is having the reverse effect of what's intended, but I think the limited data could also allow that it is just ineffective, especially for the boys who most need to access the service. As you say, the main concern is that they don't seem to be looking for any other reason or any other solution. More and mo… | /r/MensRights | 03/01/21 06:15 AM |
| 16 | Kids Helpline continues to fail boys. No-one cares.This is really worrying. The SBS article leaves out the actual contact numbers by gender, so it's difficult to ascertain whether more boys are using the service overall since 2007. It seems to me there's a problem with the standard explanation as given in the SBS article: Nick Duigan, the senior clinical advisor at youth mental health service headspace, said the results are symbolic of the wider reluctance among men to seek help if they need it. It is important parents or other members of the co… | /r/MensRights | 03/01/21 04:36 AM |
| 5 | Most participants thought the term toxic masculinity insulting, probably harmful to boys, and unlikely to help men's behaviour. Most participants said they would be unhappy if their masculinity or femininity were blamed for their work or relationship problems.This misunderstanding is part of the problem with the term. Many people understand "masculinity" not as a set of cultural expectations, but as a set of traits - basically synonymous with maleness. Other problems have to do with the way the term is used, or the way it is overused to explain away or dismiss problems and solutions for men. | /r/MensRights | 01/01/21 09:33 AM |
| 4 | Wikipedia: Men have a higher retirement age than women in 35 countries. Women have a higher retirement age than men in 0 (zero) countries.You could have simply pointed out that women are subject to certain gendered expectations too, but instead you decided to call young men lazy? | /r/MensRights | 01/01/21 05:51 AM |
| 8 | Wikipedia: Men have a higher retirement age than women in 35 countries. Women have a higher retirement age than men in 0 (zero) countries.And men are vastly overrepresented in physically-demanding jobs, resulting in chronic, debilitating conditions and injuries by the time many of them get to retire. If you want to set retirement age based on all of these variables, go ahead. There's tests that can be done to determine if a women has been pregnant in her life. What we don't need is for it to be just based on gender. | /r/MensRights | 01/01/21 05:27 AM |
| 1 | UK: Eton College reported sacked teacher to anti-TERRORISM programme over 'male superiority' lecture. OP: Misleading headline, the lecture was not about male superiority.OK, I guess I'm just more familiar with the argument that we've reached this economic situation because of unrestrained, cutthroat competitiveness among corporations facilitated by government on the one hand and the lack of a healthy, cooperative worker power base (eg. unions, syndicalism) on the other. This is not me saying all competitiveness is bad, though it's not my personal cup of tea. | /r/MensRights | 29/12/20 12:58 AM |
| 1 | UK: Eton College reported sacked teacher to anti-TERRORISM programme over 'male superiority' lecture. OP: Misleading headline, the lecture was not about male superiority.You think encouraging "happy happy joy softness cooperation" will help them in their career? That sure worked out in the last 50 years, where loyalty got absolutely shat on and multiple fields now advice people to job hop at least every 2 years to maximize their income, or get demolished by primary costs while getting a minor increase of 1-2% every year. Things only got more cutthroat. I'm interested - are you attributing the former (less emphasis on competition) as the cause of the latter (chan… | /r/MensRights | 29/12/20 12:32 AM |
| 9 | Trying to explain to somebody that "toxic masculinity" is not the main cause for men's mental health issues. Is anybody willing to aid by providing a short summary of where you think men's mental health issues mainly stem from?I'm going to leave aside the issues with the term itself, since we've been over that ad nauseum. If we take the meaning of TM as referring to a swathe of unhealthy, harmful or restrictive gender expectations that apply to men, I think it can be argued that blaming TM isn't the most helpful angle mainly because it's too broad and vague. It's a bit like a religious person with an overly simplistic view of sociology arguing that human misery is explained by sin. Get rid of sin and you get rid of mi… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 29/12/20 12:11 AM |
| 3 | Corporations Rob Men, The State Kills MenI can agree with most of this, while acknowledging that the US is perhaps further down this road of modern "serfdom" than most other developed nations. I think issues of economic opportunity and power definitely intersect with men's advocacy, and it's undeniable that many of the issues we discuss would be materially improved if economic circumstances for the majority improved. I don't think this must conflict with the recognition and questioning of gender expectations on men around being "succes… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 28/12/20 11:25 AM |
| 2 | Is the phrase "toxic masculinity" sexist?Their views on gender and society end up isolating them from women and friends. So they have to double down on this argument they don't feel anything they just work and fuck like a real man when it's so clear their feeling are hurt. You're falsely equating men stuck in some kind of traditional notion of manhood with modern men (and women) who have a legitimate opposition to the term Toxic Masculinity. These are people who are well aware that gender norms negatively affect both men and women, and… | /r/MensRights | 28/12/20 11:01 AM |
| 2 | We must burn the pedestal downI think the characters are actually very poor examples of positive masculinity. They have some temporary camaraderie, but beyond that they are perfect examples of isolated individualism. When you look at the lives of the main characters, most of those guys are in a very vulnerable position financially but that aspect is barely touched on. As you would expect in a movie focused on the needs and desires of women, the vulnerabilities and concerns of the male characters that are actually addressed t… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 26/12/20 06:12 AM |
| 1 | "Male privilege" is actually just UTILITARIAN SEXISM (you know like women have benevolent sexism) - misandry-archy theory and patriarchy theory.I think this particular argument crosses the line from complex into confounding, and all in service of poking holes in feminist doctrines. The person you were interacting with here clearly missed the whole point and tried to take it all at face value, which I admit is kind of amusing. I don't want to seem unsympathetic. I've seen you post positive stuff too. But do you really think it's so important to parody the doctrine of patriarchy that it's worth this much effort? What are the things you wa… | /r/MensRights | 26/12/20 04:17 AM |
| 2 | "Male privilege" is actually just UTILITARIAN SEXISM (you know like women have benevolent sexism) - misandry-archy theory and patriarchy theory.The layers of irony / sarcasm are making this a bit tricky for me to parse! Are you saying that men-as-utility is not a valid observation about gender, because I would say that it definitely is, especially since the first industrial revolution. Or are you just pointing out the mistake of trying to elevate such an observation into an all-encompassing theory, which some feminists do? Or is the problem using that all-encompassing theory to cast only one gender as the victim? BTW, your flipped "scri… | /r/MensRights | 26/12/20 01:36 AM |
| 2 | I came here to the sub thinking yall are overreacting and a bit mysogonistic, but man oh man do yall interact with different feminist than i do.Actually, I think we're witnessing a major turning point of awareness on this issue right now in this decade. It's been a long time coming - too long - but there's more and more initiatives ramping up and increasing pressure on governments to address male suicide as a specific issue. While suicide and mental issues are not the only things affecting men, it has lately become the unofficial theme of International Men's Day and a major branch of Movember. | /r/MensRights | 24/12/20 01:00 AM |
| 2 | Can We Talk About “Toxic Femininity” Yet?Sure. I've argued as much myself. | /r/MensRights | 23/12/20 10:07 PM |
| 3 | Can We Talk About “Toxic Femininity” Yet?I think people may have thought that you were defending the term itself. "It's giving a name to..." But we also need to drop the language that emotion and empathy are feminine values. | /r/MensRights | 23/12/20 09:55 PM |
| 12 | Canada's New Covid Stimulus Package. To be given only to the mom of the house. It's ok dad's, you can still get it, if you get a letter from your wife saying it's ok. (She's doesn't need a letter from dad. shhh!🤫)Well, it was arguably smoother, but that doesn't mean it didn't have serious problems for both men and women, as often discussed on this and other subs. In any case, the conditions that made that possible no longer exist, so a gendered approach like this in today's setup strikes me as just sexist. Do you have an opinion on the post? | /r/MensRights | 23/12/20 09:42 PM |
| 1 | Can We Talk About “Toxic Femininity” Yet?In the sense that women participate in the inculcation and policing of restrictive gender roles on men and boys, this is true. | /r/MensRights | 23/12/20 08:49 PM |
| 8 | Can We Talk About “Toxic Femininity” Yet?Summary quote: Ultimately, it seems to me that terms like “toxic masculinity” just aren’t useful ... Society isn’t a battlefield between men and women ... Divisive rhetoric implying that femininity is entirely virtuous, while masculinity is inherently harmful, is just going to make things worse. She gets it. | /r/MensRights | 23/12/20 08:52 AM |
| 1 | UK: Dozens of Old Etonians threaten to withhold £2million in donations from Eton College and call for headteacher to quit after English tutor was sacked in 'toxic masculinity' lecture rowI'm certainly not going to disagree that there is an element among MRAs that sees any criticism of men as an attack, and that is stuck in a victim mindset rather than a truly activist one. all it will take is someone like Anita Sarkeesian to say As has been explained to me by feminists, women went through decades of self-criticism about their gender expectations at the same time as fighting for equal rights. The difference is that this discussion was led by women and by a movement called feminis… | /r/MensRights | 22/12/20 10:13 PM |
| 1 | UK: Dozens of Old Etonians threaten to withhold £2million in donations from Eton College and call for headteacher to quit after English tutor was sacked in 'toxic masculinity' lecture rowVocabulary must evolve to better serve the purposes of the communit(ies) using it. A number of MRAs and men's advocates (including some feminists) consider the term to be doing more harm than good right now, regardless of its origins. because they're pressured into being stoic, etc. That sounds like an example of internalised male disposability. | /r/MensRights | 22/12/20 09:24 PM |
| 3 | UK: Dozens of Old Etonians threaten to withhold £2million in donations from Eton College and call for headteacher to quit after English tutor was sacked in 'toxic masculinity' lecture rowWhether that makes it an "MRA idea" is debatable. Regardless, in recent years, the term has been largely incubated within feminist discourse and was unleashed into mainstream culture in the context of metoo and gendered approaches to domestic violence. | /r/MensRights | 22/12/20 09:45 AM |
| 4 | Boycotting Gillette?After a year of reflection, I've come to the conclusion that the underlying issue with the ad was that it is not for men. I don't just mean commercially (though that can certainly be argued). The message of the ad is tied to the metoo era. It is "strongest" when it portrays men negatively affecting women and weakest when trying to show any kind of male perspective. Over half the ad is men and boys staring guiltily into a mirror, and that's all we get of the male perspective besides droning BBQ d… | /r/MensRights | 21/12/20 09:51 PM |
| 1 | Recommendations for feminist literature?I was challenged to read Bell Hooks' "The Will To Change", a book that is often referenced by feminists who are interested in men and masculinity as an issue. Once I got past the constant use of the term patriarchy, I didn't hate it and there are some helpful admissions about the way women inculcate unhealthy gender expectations for boys and men. Also, it predates the recent popularisation of the term "toxic masculinity", so you don't have to put up with that term. | /r/MensRights | 20/12/20 09:21 PM |
| 4 | Mens health paradox - feminist are desperately trying to shut down articles like this, its to late, MRA is entering academia. Check out Male Psychology Network, and psychreg, this author is excellent too. Check out their social media.There are a variety of initiatives around male suicide prevention in nations like Australia and the UK. Many are experimental and government funding can be difficult to attain, though there are increasing calls for a dedicated plan to tackle male suicide. This resource from AMHF includes case studies of some existing initiatives. To respond to your initial question, I think now is the time for men to ramp up supporting each other and addressing loneliness at the grassroots level through both for… | /r/MensRights | 20/12/20 01:36 AM |
| 5 | Feminist writes book to help men - fails miserably, books is full of feminist lies and stats manipulation, false claims and so on. Feminism is an ideology/cult - no wonder non feminist gender movements are forming.For the past 150 years men have been fighting to gain back their natural right to be who they are - and not some misconstrued being projected out of their father’s minds You should definitely add "mother's minds" here. To the extent that the unhealthy gender expectations placed on men and boys are cultural, they come from both men and women. I personally think the article is overly negative but, right now, it seems like everyone gets to tell men who they are and what they should be - everyone ex… | /r/MensRights | 18/12/20 10:30 PM |
| 1 | Absurd!It seems pretty obvious to me that if those in power represented a diverse range of genders, races, and income levels that we would have a society better represented and it would be MUCH harder to start a war. I disagree. In a nation with the same political, economic and education structures, it's easy for me to imagine a governing class with unrivalled gender and ethnic-racial diversity following exactly the same policies as today. Even if that weren't the case, I'm not convinced that affirmati… | /r/MensRights | 18/12/20 10:02 PM |
| 5 | I have mixed feelings on this male body positivity project. What are your thoughts?the vast majority of the posing is clearly done in a style more reminiscent of female modelling and femininity I feel the same way about the polished man charity. Regardless of the goal and origin of the charity, much of the advertising is about casting doubt on the virtue of individual men unless they submit to doing something that is explicitly female-coded in our culture - painting their nails. But I agree that there are at least more varied body types here than in other similar initiatives. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 18/12/20 03:00 AM |
| 3 | Absurd!really its a ruling class It's absolutely true that better and fairer workplace and economic conditions would improve things for those workers who currently occupy the most life- and health-threatening jobs - overwhelmingly men. This is not the same as saying "Men dying in war is the result of men controlling power." | /r/MensRights | 18/12/20 01:42 AM |
| 1 | Problem with lack of sympathy for Mentell Men who are complaning and venting to just "Man up" or "take responsibility" TBH, I usually only see this from some fly-in fly-out who has typically been downvoted to the bottom of the comments on a popular post. Like "WTF! You guys are such whingers! This sub is wack yo! Man the f up!" But you're always going to have an optics issue in a sub that doesn't suppress venting style posts. If we see venting as exactly that - a means of releasing pressure - then other men's issues subs that do mo… | /r/MensRights | 16/12/20 10:29 PM |
| 2 | Another misandrist article musing about what to do with 'excess' malesWhat I find really troubling about what he's written is the very cold tone of his article. Yep, this is the problem with this piece, and why it gets interpreted negatively as in the OP. It correctly draws links between economic conditions and historical male disposability, but it does so without any apparent acknowledgement of the horror and injustice of this. It therefore comes across as being blithely complicit with male disposability. Further, as you say, it offers no solutions, nor even hint… | /r/MensRights | 16/12/20 10:02 PM |
| 7 | If feminists actually believed in the theory behind toxic masculinity, they would support the men's rights movement. MRAs are giving men a voice and a safe space to express themselves.Some alternatives: - restrictive male gender expectations - toxic gender expectations for men - toxic gender roles for men - unhealthy gender expectations for men - limited masculinity - the "man box" concept You can also choose to get more specific to the situation. eg. internalised male disposability could be used in the case of a man putting work before health, or a negligent employer with a male-dominated employee base. There's also an argument for just saying it's sexism. When women are exp… | /r/MensRights | 14/12/20 10:02 PM |
| 1 | A discussion on what drives status for men in societyBTW, I didn't feel the need to make a whole post about it, but I'm going to take a break from Reddit for a while, so I may not reply again. I've noticed being on these subs (lwma, mensrights, menslib) is making me extremely cynical, eager to find fault even in things that are overall positive progress for men. Not blaming these subs for this. Maybe I've suddenly become a miserable elitist! Anyway, if my attitude turns around, I may be back. Still going to work to do things IRL for men's health a… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 22/11/20 05:46 AM |
| 1 | A discussion on what drives status for men in societyI recently watched the Pixar film Onward and it struck me how much of the plot and setting could be read as a metaphor for men's need for brotherhood and comradeship today. If you haven't seen it, the setting is a modern town/city that has a magical past. The "people" are classic magical creatures (elves, centaurs, etc.) a bit like that failed Netflix film Bright. There used to be magic users, and it was generally used for good, but it became unnecessary once modern technology took off. The worl… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 21/11/20 10:28 PM |
| 1 | Interesting piece on male suicide in yesterday's newspaperLook, I'm gay so it does nothing for me! It's a call and response thing - sexual bravado stuff. I'm sure you could find it if you google it. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 21/11/20 09:58 PM |
| 1 | Interesting piece on male suicide in yesterday's newspaperThese single-sex schools, at least the boys' ones, get tremendous scrutiny because they are assumed to be breeding grounds for misogyny. After all, if it's only boys together in one place, they must be spending all their time thinking about how to dominate women, right? The song incident took place on a public tram in my city. The boys were apparently chanting the "I wish that all the ladies..." song, which is lewd but I would argue not necessarily misogynistic on its own. However, a bunch of lo… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 21/11/20 09:51 PM |
| 3 | I understand the sentiment, but...But don't you see how this reads like "trickle down equality" and derailing? Do you think it would go down well if a man made a comment on International Women's Day saying "Good for women! it all starts with taking down prejudices against men and ending misandry"? | /r/MensRights | 21/11/20 09:00 PM |
| 1 | My family's response to the Men's Day infographic. How would you guys have responded to them?TBH, the idea of family group chat is pretty alien to me, so I can't really judge. | /r/MensRights | 21/11/20 01:55 AM |
| 2 | My family's response to the Men's Day infographic. How would you guys have responded to them?This sub has a wide variety of users, some of whom do like to play the "oppression olympics" as you say. I wouldn't say the info in the OP's infographic "falls apart". It is a set of statistics, probably a past resource from this source, which is connected to the Australian Men's Health Forum. The OP seems to be dealing with family members whose first reaction is to dismiss the stats with "poor men". | /r/MensRights | 21/11/20 01:42 AM |
| 2 | My family's response to the Men's Day infographic. How would you guys have responded to them?Also not sure how that's relevant, but I'm not personally involved in the health industry or health organisations. I participate in Movember each year, a charity that raises awareness and funds about men's suicide, among other things. I like to use the opportunity to also point to useful information and groups. I also participate in a male chorus, which is an important social connection for a largely older demographic of men. | /r/MensRights | 21/11/20 12:48 AM |
| 6 | My family's response to the Men's Day infographic. How would you guys have responded to them?The difference? A gun. This is a ridiculous oversimplification of the issue. It's true that men use more lethal means, but government strategies are failing at reducing male suicide because: a. often such a targeted strategy doesn't even exist (ie. male suicide continues to be largely ignored) b. they fail to take into account research around the relationship between mental health and suicidal ideation for men particularly (see, eg. the Situational Approach to male suicide prevention) c. everyon… | /r/MensRights | 20/11/20 10:43 PM |
| 1 | A discussion on what drives status for men in societyIts not financially viable to spend money mentoring young men for a long time so I don't think it would stick in industry. Oh yeah, definitely. There's a reason guilds worked at one time - they controlled the "market"! This discussion is a bit pie-in-the-sky, but I'm enjoying it nonetheless. These things have to start somewhere. The volunteer thing sounds almost like a formal extension of Men's Sheds. Your Spartan model of cohabitating and working is interesting. It's a model that was still used… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 20/11/20 06:55 AM |
| 4 | Interesting piece on male suicide in yesterday's newspaperYeah, I'm starting to think a big problem for boys is the cognitive dissonance that arises from conflicting expectations. The newer progressive expectations like "share your feelings" sit uneasily on top of deeper-held traditional expectations. The former are explicit, imposed, like "don't do drugs". And that's even when they're expressed and communicated in a way that is received by boys and men as positive and non-judgemental. The latter are implicit, laden with social fears and consequences, … | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 20/11/20 05:19 AM |
| 1 | A discussion on what drives status for men in societyAs a high school teacher of computing, I noticed that many of the boys undertaking the subject lacked a number of what are sometimes called "soft skills"; project management, social impact analysis and other social skills around communication and teamwork. The subjects tended to select for boys who wanted to sit and code something awesome, but the industry needs much more than that today. In contrast, the few girls who chose to undertake the subject had, proportionately, more breadth of skills. … | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 20/11/20 05:04 AM |
| 5 | Do men's rights proponents care about opressive gender roles?I think some of the work of understanding gender dynamics and history pioneered by some feminists can be useful if adapted for men's concerns. This doesn't mean feminism should be immune to criticism, or that it should get to "own" men's issues and expect any men's advocacy movement to adopt its particular language and viewpoints. Because, from what i've seen on Reddit, this sub has a lot more overtly anti feminist posts than r/feminism has about hating men. This is a false equivalence, but you … | /r/MensRights | 20/11/20 02:42 AM |
| 4 | Men portrayed as idiots in advertisingI think the law applies to advertising, not film. | /r/MensRights | 20/11/20 01:58 AM |
| 22 | Interesting piece on male suicide in yesterday's newspaperHe's probably talking about boys at one of the elite private schools, which have a mixed reputation here. We've recently had a few "scandals" where boys from some of these schools have been spotted chanting lewd songs or using end-of-school celebrations to trash surrounding neighbourhoods. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 20/11/20 01:25 AM |
| 27 | Men portrayed as idiots in advertisingThis is actually supposed to be illegal in the UK now, specifically in "reverse" contexts, eg. a man cannot be portrayed as incompetent in a traditional female setting like child rearing. | /r/MensRights | 20/11/20 12:19 AM |
| 6 | sexist advertisements by First for Women Insurance Company LimitedSomeone should tell them that this is promoting unhealthy gender expectations for boys and men. Seriously, though, why do companies like this even exist anymore? We have a funeral firm in Australia called White Lady Funerals whose slogan is all about "a woman's understanding". I've often thought that's a bit dodgy, but it's mainly just about marketing. It's not like they only bury women. | /r/MensRights | 19/11/20 09:50 PM |
| 0 | I saw Google didn't change their homescreen for International Men's day , so I decided to make a one.The remaining 59-60% is women. Not sure what your point is, given that this post is about International Men's Day. | /r/MensRights | 19/11/20 09:43 PM |
| 19 | Google didnt bother with making a Doodle on Men's Day so I made oneInternational Men's Day is about celebrating the men and boys in your life. In addition, this year's theme is around health (physical and mental), issues which disproportionately affect men in most categories. | /r/MensRights | 19/11/20 08:57 PM |
| 2 | Fragility is a word only ever applied to the least fragile among us.I think a lot of the guys here are honestly trying to square expectations that are coming from conflicting sources. The expectation on men to be the breadwinner (a traditional expectation) necessarily conflicts with the expectation to be happy if your female domestic partner is the breadwinner (a progressive expectation), at least in the situation where the male domestic partner is being out earned or is unemployed. EDIT: In cases where the two expectations are coming from the same source, then … | /r/MensRights | 19/11/20 05:00 AM |
| 2 | A discussion on what drives status for men in societyre: the career thing, I like your intention with valuing progress rather than end-point, but I wonder whether careers are a bit of an outdated notion, something that would make younger men say "OK boomer". I feel like people can change so drastically from one job path to another, and it may be particularly problematic in bad economic times. Maybe a more holistic way of looking at it is vocation, helping men find a range of skills and opportunities to contribute and gain a sense of worth. Some of… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 19/11/20 04:09 AM |
| 1 | International men’s day today!It's hard not to see this as a political gimmick. It's only $10 mil, so this will only reach 2000 people max. This sort of cynical policy should probably make women just as angry. The dangerous part is the precedent this sets: an unemployment grant going to one gender exclusively. There was a lot of criticism here of a recent federal government move to support apprenticeships in industries that are male-dominated, but at least those industries don't refuse female applicants. The justification fo… | /r/MensRights | 19/11/20 03:52 AM |
| 3 | A discussion on what drives status for men in societyI'm not a dad, and likely will never be, so what follows is my own observations. When it comes to society's perceptions of men, we all acknowledge that there is a lot of negativity out there. In these times, I feel that fatherhood has recently become the ultimate positive "totem". Whenever you look for positive portrayals of men as a gender, particularly the most sentimental ones, you invariably find an image of a loving dad. This is a contrast to the long-running trope of the deadbeat/incompete… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 19/11/20 03:22 AM |
| 1 | Fragility is a word only ever applied to the least fragile among us.He did say it was a rant. | /r/MensRights | 19/11/20 12:29 AM |
| 1 | International men’s day today!You say that understanding is half way to fixing, but men already know that there are gender roles and expectations that hurt them. That's what most of the posts on this sub are about. What I don't see is how understanding a modified patriarchy theory, even if we gave it a new term that's not female-centric (GRAIS: Gender Role Assignment and Inculturation System?), actually promotes change. What's the application / implementation pathway for this framework? | /r/MensRights | 18/11/20 10:27 PM |
| 9 | Happy International Men's Day!I think it's a really good thing, though I understand people who are cynical about having days for things. There's a stereotype about men's advocates that they only ask about IMD when it's International Women's Day. So I like to use IMD to highlight positives about men, as well as areas of disproportionate need and disadvantage for men. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 18/11/20 10:02 PM |
| 1 | Damsel in distress is an old theme in art and movies. My guess is that nowadays it's not politically correct and thus has been replaced by something different. But what?Since men are far more likely to be in dangerous situations (outside the home), it would make sense to have more stories where men rescue other men. This has been explored in limited settings like war, eg. Saving Private Ryan. | /r/MensRights | 18/11/20 09:57 PM |
| 2 | Happy men's day kings. Let's correct this phrase once and for all. "Behind Every Successful Man there is _________"I like this. | /r/MensRights | 18/11/20 09:52 PM |
| 6 | International men’s day today!I'd be more inclined to think they're a tradcon, or just trolling. | /r/MensRights | 18/11/20 09:49 PM |
| 2 | International men’s day today!the idea of patriarchal structures How do you think men's advocates should use this idea? This is a genuine question, not flippancy. Personally, I think it would require quite a bit of adaptation since, like most ideas originating in feminism, it naturally centres women. Rather than the consequences of a deliberate power structure where men have rulership at every level from government to family, a more useful model would bring in the historical realities of assigned gender roles which negativel… | /r/MensRights | 18/11/20 09:47 PM |
| 1 | What do you boys think about traditional gender norms?The persecuted have become the persecutors. It's interesting to see the way this has flipped. In the 1980s, it was conservatives (often religious) who felt they had the right to tell everyone how to think and to live. Now it's self-proclaimed progressives doing it, sometimes to the point of sounding morally puritanical. The decline of traditional media and the rise of social media has made it all much more divisive and outrage-driven too. | /r/MensRights | 17/11/20 10:33 PM |
| 17 | Loose Women announce their first EVER all-male panel for International Men's DayI don't know much about the show, but... 'I'm looking forward to anchoring the first ever Loose Men and raising awareness of the importance of men opening up like women do.' And every single one of the proposed male hosts said exactly the same thing. This doesn't sound like men hosting, it sounds like men following a very specific script. Do you think there's any chance that they'll talk about tailoring mental health services to better meet the needs of men as a group? Or the failure of most gov… | /r/MensRights | 17/11/20 09:12 PM |
| 6 | Is it sexist to say “man-up”I think the term you're looking for is "grow up", or maybe "buck up". | /r/MensRights | 17/11/20 10:29 AM |
| 3 | UK: 'Bring back manly men!' Harry Styles is SLAMMED for wearing a dress in Vogue as jounalist insists 'no society can survive without strong' males. The feminization of men at the same time that Marxism is being taught to children is no coincidenceNone of this is particularly important. It might help to think about it this way: Right now, this is super-important for a relatively small number of people and society is a bit obsessed with talking about it because it's new and controversial and other people are making a stink about it. Eventually, that'll all settle down and it won't be constantly in your face unless you go looking for it. What is with this obsession to get men to be feminine? It seems degrading to masculinity to me. Again, t… | /r/MensRights | 17/11/20 09:00 AM |
| 1 | UK: 'Bring back manly men!' Harry Styles is SLAMMED for wearing a dress in Vogue as jounalist insists 'no society can survive without strong' males. The feminization of men at the same time that Marxism is being taught to children is no coincidenceSorry, I don't have a gripe with you, but you came into this thread with this statement: "Clearly you don't care about equality, you just care about your bias, skewed ideals." and I assumed you were directing it to the members of this sub. Based on what you've said since, I think you were directing it at people like Candace Owens. | /r/MensRights | 17/11/20 08:53 AM |
| 2 | UK: 'Bring back manly men!' Harry Styles is SLAMMED for wearing a dress in Vogue as jounalist insists 'no society can survive without strong' males. The feminization of men at the same time that Marxism is being taught to children is no coincidenceOK sure, but does Ben Shapiro claim to be an MRA either? | /r/MensRights | 17/11/20 04:44 AM |
| 14 | One of the best responses I have ever seen on any male advocacy subs, let alone r/Menslib.The irony of this makes me so sad. The stoic Protector is expected and encouraged when it's advantageous to the allies for him to "step up", and the same people will criticise that expectation in other contexts. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 17/11/20 04:00 AM |
| 18 | Completely sexist NSW grant applies ONLY to unemployed womenYeah, I agree with one of the commenters that this is a political gimmick. Simple maths shows that this will only reach 2000 people max. This sort of cynical policy should probably make women just as angry. The dangerous part is the precedent this sets: an unemployment grant going to one gender exclusively. There was a lot of criticism of a recent government move to support apprenticeships in industries that are male-dominated, but at least those industries don't refuse female applicants. Men wi… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 17/11/20 03:15 AM |
| 1 | UK: 'Bring back manly men!' Harry Styles is SLAMMED for wearing a dress in Vogue as jounalist insists 'no society can survive without strong' males. The feminization of men at the same time that Marxism is being taught to children is no coincidenceSo Candace Owens seems like a bit of a conservative ideologue. I don't see anything about her being an MRA, nor any reference to anyone else agreeing with her. I'm happy to concede that MRAs as a group aren't perfect, just like feminists aren't. | /r/MensRights | 17/11/20 03:00 AM |
| 2 | UK: 'Bring back manly men!' Harry Styles is SLAMMED for wearing a dress in Vogue as jounalist insists 'no society can survive without strong' males. The feminization of men at the same time that Marxism is being taught to children is no coincidenceCrazy to see how many self proclaimed "men's rights activists" have an issue with a man dressing as he pleases. I don't see much evidence for that here. Right now there's 1 comment like that and it's already being downvoted. | /r/MensRights | 17/11/20 02:38 AM |
| 1 | Addressing homicide by men against menthe male feminists posit that it was created conspiratorially to oppress others while Gilmore shows the environmental and existential conditions out of which masculinity was necessitated for the preservation of society. I don't necessarily speak for feminists, but I think a lot of "lay feminists" would agree that there are historical roots in environmental/existential conditions. I don't think they all want to fit everything into an oppressor/oppressed model, though the language of "patriarchy" … | /r/MensRights | 15/11/20 10:14 PM |
| 2 | How to make change.Maybe an approach would be to pick one issue to specialise on, then maybe commit to a regular "progress" post once a week or once a fortnight. Also, if possible, find a way to be active about it outside of this sub (even outside of Reddit). I get the impression Reddit is useful for discussing things but doesn't lend itself to action. | /r/MensRights | 15/11/20 09:25 AM |
| 1 | Addressing homicide by men against menI'd say nations with high overall homicide rates would benefit from looking to nations with lower homicide rates and see what policies can be adapted. You're correct that homicide disproportionately affects men, but the rate in some countries is high enough that just reducing the overall rates would remove more male homicides than the current gender difference in many countries with lower overall rates. Beyond that, a cultural shift towards greater empathy for male victims would be helpful. In m… | /r/MensRights | 15/11/20 02:17 AM |
| 1 | Addressing homicide by men against menI think this is a very clear (and compassionate) explanation of what the term actually means according to an academic definition. It just doesn't really solve the problem of how and why the term is misunderstood. I think it's better to use something more specific, like "toxic versions of masculinity" or "toxic ideas of masculinity". | /r/MensRights | 14/11/20 09:18 PM |
| 2 | Addressing homicide by men against menYou hit the nail on the head, thank you. | /r/MensRights | 14/11/20 08:55 PM |
| 5 | Rush Limbaugh displays the tiniest glimmer of sadness over dying from cancer and is berated for doing so. Men should be able to express their emotions, and being socially demonized by doing so even when faced with your own death is a problem.Yeah, this term has been discussed more times than you can count. It's got big problems but people love to defend it. Some alternatives that avoid most of the problems: Toxic gender expectations for men Toxic ideas of masculinity Toxic versions of masculinity Macho bullshit The "manbox" concept | /r/MensRights | 14/11/20 10:44 AM |
| 1 | Australian men and the future of work.Yeah it should be obvious that Trump is a glaring alarm bell, but too many people just want to disconnect the alarm so that things can get back to normal. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 14/11/20 10:20 AM |
| 2 | Despite the below stats the USA (like >>98%<< of all countries) has no mens health policy (it has multiple womens ones so clearly its possible) and the CDC has no mens branches (it has multiple womens ones [unrelated to pregnancy, etc] so clearly its possible)OK, well it's been a nice discussion, even though it felt like we were talking past each other most of the time. I guess, next time someone I know uses the term soy boy (which never happens) I'll be sure to tell them off. | /r/MensRights | 13/11/20 10:17 AM |
| 1 | Despite the below stats the USA (like >>98%<< of all countries) has no mens health policy (it has multiple womens ones so clearly its possible) and the CDC has no mens branches (it has multiple womens ones [unrelated to pregnancy, etc] so clearly its possible)I'm going to be honest - I'm not following your line of argument or your plan here. As has been said, I think your heart is in the right place, but based on your discussion in the other main thread in this post, I don't really think I can contribute much more to whatever approach you're taking. So I'll just respond to a couple of things you said just now and you can choose to continue this back and forth if you want, but I won't be offended otherwise. which values we see as masculine ideals; whi… | /r/MensRights | 13/11/20 09:37 AM |
| 4 | Hot take: Slut shaming is proof that men are viewed as less valuableAlmost every issue that can be construed to hurt one main gender has a flipside that can be construed to hurt the other. Usually, the element that makes the difference is hypo- vs hyper-agency. In this case, a male corollary for slut-shaming (female hypo-agency) is virgin-shaming or sexual competitive scorekeeping (male hyper-agency). | /r/MensRights | 13/11/20 05:46 AM |
| 3 | More cultural misandry, this time from The Craft: LegacyIt seems so odd and specific to make the villain some kind of twisted "male empowerment" speaker. I can understand pillorying mainline political groups, but MRAs and men's advocates are such a tiny and disparate group of movements with so little clout in terms of academia and other establishments, and that's even if you include the most negative with the most positive elements. They're already the subject of ridicule. | /r/MensRights | 13/11/20 05:06 AM |
| 4 | More cultural misandry, this time from The Craft: LegacyOof. I feel like we're going to be looking back at this era of movies/TV in 10-15 years and be so embarrassed by how weirdly preachy and transparent they are, like some kind of "say no to drugs" campaign but for gender issues. Ironically, the first three reviews I found for the movie manage to critique it for the flipside of what you have - that the movie is supposed to be about women and that it's not doing female empowerment any favours by focusing so much on men and their "toxic masculinity" … | /r/MensRights | 13/11/20 02:06 AM |
| 4 | Despite the below stats the USA (like >>98%<< of all countries) has no mens health policy (it has multiple womens ones so clearly its possible) and the CDC has no mens branches (it has multiple womens ones [unrelated to pregnancy, etc] so clearly its possible)You began this thread with "we are continuously refusing to have a conversation about this line of ‘being masculine’ being the fundamental issue". Contrary to your experience, all I see in newspapers and other mainstream media is articles that are talking about "being masculine" as the fundamental issue. More often than not, those articles are written by women, a situation that would be impossible if seen in reverse. Even when looking at mental health, what some people here are coming back with … | /r/MensRights | 12/11/20 10:47 PM |
| 3 | Despite the below stats the USA (like >>98%<< of all countries) has no mens health policy (it has multiple womens ones so clearly its possible) and the CDC has no mens branches (it has multiple womens ones [unrelated to pregnancy, etc] so clearly its possible)I think some of the pushback you're getting here is because of the overwhelming focus given to ideas of masculinity and cultural / social forces whenever men's issues and advocacy are raised, vs. the comparative lack of attention given to improving real-world systems and approaches so that they cater better to men. As you say, both matter, but it's hard to escape the feeling that the former matters more because it is intangible, doesn't require much hard action from government or business, and a… | /r/MensRights | 12/11/20 09:43 PM |
| 7 | "Trickle down" equality is the problem of how feminist frame mens issues as really being about/ caused by sexism against women... Also some great/funny examples of what it would look like if MRAs acted like feminsts & did this this about womens issues really being about/ caused by sexism against menI've definitely seen this "backfiring patriarchy" argumentation used. Men's advocates are often told that we should draw on the existing understanding of gender and discourse developed by feminists, rather than try to reinvent the wheel. But here, I think we also see how there is an implicit female-centering built into much of that discourse as it currently stands. Historical Male Disposability is very much the flipside of the historical overprotection and infantilisation of women. Yet, because … | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 11/11/20 10:55 PM |
| 13 | What my boyfriend thinks about MRM.Paternity leave is hard to sell economically. Maternity leave can be justified on basic health grounds. Getting women into the workforce was easy from a GDP / productivity perspective. Even subsidised childcare can be sold as an overall economic benefit in developed nations, if it means enough women are in the workplace. Paternity leave has no economic upside. It has been championed in some Scandinavian nations, but the cultural change seems slow to follow the legislative change. | /r/MensRights | 10/11/20 09:52 PM |
| 1 | Australian men and the future of work.I don't have specific stats but it's one of the main points in the speech, so there's probably been some hard research done. It makes sense in terms of long-term effects of recession vs. the temporary effects of lockdown. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 10/11/20 12:32 AM |
| 3 | Australian men and the future of work.I'll need to read the whole speech, but I think the parts you've quoted are very positive. She correctly points out how the conversation is stifled. The biggest employment fallout from COVID is still to come, and it is forecast to affect men disproportionately. It's interesting that parties like One Nation can actually serve to bring attention to things like men's issues by taking the role of the scary fringe that threatens the mainline parties by potentially winning over a demographic if they d… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 09/11/20 10:27 PM |
| 3 | The men who live a life of inner solitude and misery but are denounced as a part of the patriarchy. A 42 year old dad posts his life of regrets. Don’t be a slave and free yourself.I wouldn't say it's that well defined. Even from the Wikipedia article, it seems to have a lot of disagreement among feminists. According to this Guardian article "Among gender studies academics, it is no longer in wide use." I think the popular re-emergence of the term is overall a bad thing for feminism. I agree with those who say it oversimplifies gender roles and expectations. It also gets a lot of men off-side unnecessarily. | /r/MensRights | 06/11/20 09:09 PM |
| 2 | What do you think when people use the term 'bromance' to describe male friendships?Yeah, I think a lot of it is about the tone. You're right that it comes across a little "cute" and condescending in this article, but I can accept that the term doesn't have to carry that tone in other contexts. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 06/11/20 02:11 AM |
| 5 | Male disposability on the titanicYes, this came up in a past discussion on this sub. It turns out that the Titanic was a bit of an exception. I recall the records show that it's crew (largely male) who have fared best in historical shipwrecks of passenger ships, both prior to and since the Titanic, and that the difference between male and female passengers is no where near the ratio we see with that particular wreck. The Titanic obviously stands out because of its fame. Nevertheless, I think nautical industries are prime and ob… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 05/11/20 07:05 AM |
| 3 | Why do people say KAM?Cultural disputes like gender "wars" are an effective distraction from the main causes of economic hardship and injustice that have been building in most countries for decades. Keep the kids occupied with boys' germs and girls' germs. What government wants to deal with class issues or the failure of accepted economic policy? | /r/MensRights | 04/11/20 09:47 PM |
| 2 | Remembering to take the pill is hard so let's "make all men get vasectomies" They recommended I ask a friend to explain how this is okay.But who is this trying to convince? I don't see that this would convince someone (male or female) who already supports the banning of abortions, since they see a third, innocent person in the mix who is being killed, not merely controlled. Logically, how would a forced vasectomy (no matter how shocking that seems) trump the killing of a person? | /r/MensRights | 03/11/20 11:31 PM |
| 1 | A bunch of quotes from the excellent book Tribe: On Homecoming and BelongingI was responding to your fairly brief statement before the quotes in the original post, so I'm sorry if I didn't quite capture what you meant by it. Perhaps you'd like to give more explanation? Reading the quotes, I certainly agree with most of them. Looking at this one: they need to feel competent at what they do; they need to feel authentic in their lives; and they need to feel connected to others. I would place being loved for who you are in the same box as the last one - feeling connected to… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 03/11/20 01:31 AM |
| 1 | How can we support men's health and give Gillette the finger at the same time? MovemberUhh, not really? Though I have been accused of being sensitive. In any case I think even looking at it dispassionately, the ad didn't exactly win over men as a group, or sell heaps of razors. | /r/MensRights | 02/11/20 10:47 AM |
| 2 | How can we support men's health and give Gillette the finger at the same time? MovemberSorry, I'm not generally a whiner, but that ad just really rubbed me up the wrong way. Also, the first time I heard about it was in an opinion piece claiming that any man who had an issue with the ad was toxic himself, so that had me off-side from the beginning. | /r/MensRights | 02/11/20 10:38 AM |
| 4 | Snow White and the Seven DorksI wonder if these river valley civilisations still had fond generational memory of pre-agricultural times, as if they still sensed and remembered some of the things they had given up. And I guess there would have still been wildernesses where hermits and others could still live "wild". | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 02/11/20 10:25 AM |
| 1 | Remembering to take the pill is hard so let's "make all men get vasectomies" They recommended I ask a friend to explain how this is okay.Affordable LARCs for men would be better. They already exist for women but prohibitively expensive for many. | /r/MensRights | 02/11/20 09:05 AM |
| 3 | How can we support men's health and give Gillette the finger at the same time? MovemberThe ad literally said that "some" men are ok. Logically, this means the majority are not. Even being really generous to the motives, it was cringey and hamfisted to the point that it seemed designed to offend. For an ad about the best men can be, there isn't a single moment of tenderness been two men, not a single statement of encouragement between a father and son (even though they made time for a scene of a father building up his daughter). I don't know how anyone can think it doesn't have a w… | /r/MensRights | 02/11/20 08:57 AM |
| 17 | Snow White and the Seven DorksIt's always struck me as representing the traditional idea of the woman as the "ruler" of the domestic sphere of life. The dwarves are expected to accept the changes she brings into their home because of the traditional assumption that women are better at furnishing, decorating and maintaining a home. There's also an element of the supposed "civilising" effect of the female on the male, a trope that goes right back to the Epic of Gilgamesh. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 02/11/20 08:04 AM |
| 1 | The month of November is an opportunity for men's advocacyThanks for this info. I think that there is value in the awareness raising factor because of the large "presence" of Movember among the public. This is the main reason I get involved, also giving me an opportunity to link people to other information. But I can see that it's not necessarily the best from the point of view of effective altruism. Can you recommend a specific men's health related project that scores highly in evidence-based effectiveness studies? | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 02/11/20 03:07 AM |
| 1 | Just exhausted with the word patriarchy. It doesn’t exist.Its more like The Excuse-chiarchy. Men are are not organizing themselves to prevent women from being equal. By contrast we are waiting for the major of them to accept equality.That's what some people seem to think. I'd say it is part of the problem with the vocabulary of "patriarchy", because it tends to imply that only men are in the powerful position of being able to do this. | /r/MensRights | 01/11/20 05:54 AM |
| 1 | Just exhausted with the word patriarchy. It doesn’t exist.Its more like The Excuse-chiarchy. Men are are not organizing themselves to prevent women from being equal. By contrast we are waiting for the major of them to accept equality.I'm sure I would disagree with a lot of their views, but I'm not particularly curious about them. Again, you write: Embryos and fetuses are not people, not yet. If you'd said, "I hold to the view that...", I could understand that, but this is a philosophical, not scientific question, so you and this person would have to have compatible worldviews to agree on the statement as expressed. | /r/MensRights | 01/11/20 05:31 AM |
| 1 | Just exhausted with the word patriarchy. It doesn’t exist.Its more like The Excuse-chiarchy. Men are are not organizing themselves to prevent women from being equal. By contrast we are waiting for the major of them to accept equality.A clump of cells is not a human person Just as an observer in this conversation, you literally just used a religious pluralism argument to dismiss the argument of your interlocutor because you assume they're coming from a religious viewpoint (even though you're the only one bringing it up). And now you're stating the above as if it is objective truth? | /r/MensRights | 01/11/20 03:10 AM |
| 1 | Just exhausted with the word patriarchy. It doesn’t exist.Its more like The Excuse-chiarchy. Men are are not organizing themselves to prevent women from being equal. By contrast we are waiting for the major of them to accept equality.The MRA movement does that when people say very sexist stuff about women The problem is that just makes for a stalemate situation, which is exactly what we have. Just as there is always some self-identified feminist talking out of their arse without any apparent reproof from other self-identified feminists, someone can always point to some self-identified MRA doing the same thing and not apparently getting criticised for it by other self-identified MRAs. It's called The Internet. Breaking that s… | /r/MensRights | 01/11/20 02:54 AM |
| 1 | Just exhausted with the word patriarchy. It doesn’t exist.Its more like The Excuse-chiarchy. Men are are not organizing themselves to prevent women from being equal. By contrast we are waiting for the major of them to accept equality.Both men and women inculcate and then police unhealthy gender expectations on men. | /r/MensRights | 31/10/20 10:31 PM |
| 1 | Just exhausted with the word patriarchy. It doesn’t exist.Its more like The Excuse-chiarchy. Men are are not organizing themselves to prevent women from being equal. By contrast we are waiting for the major of them to accept equality.Yeah, you might want to think about adopting a new word then. What you oppose is a system of gender norms, not a system of male rulership. | /r/MensRights | 31/10/20 10:21 PM |
| 1 | Just exhausted with the word patriarchy. It doesn’t exist.Its more like The Excuse-chiarchy. Men are are not organizing themselves to prevent women from being equal. By contrast we are waiting for the major of them to accept equality.I think you're trying to help, but starting off with "neckbeard" is hardly demonstrating support for men's advocates. Having said that, I agree with your final points. The word "patriarchy" has been successively redefined by parts of the feminist movement, as shown by some of the defending comments here. Many seem to now define it as a system of gender roles that affects both men and women, which has little to do with the etymology of the word unless you bring in a historical context that many d… | /r/MensRights | 31/10/20 10:17 PM |
| 2 | A bunch of quotes from the excellent book Tribe: On Homecoming and BelongingOk, clearly we have different understandings about the nature and intention of loving someone for who they are. For me, it is a baseline principle. For you, it seems to be a conspiracy to destroy a gender group. I don't want to live in a world where men don't have opportunities to be useful. I also don't want to live in a world where men are only valued for their usefulness, any more than I would want a world where women are only seen as walking baby incubators. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 31/10/20 09:15 PM |
| 5 | Just exhausted with the word patriarchy. It doesn’t exist.Its more like The Excuse-chiarchy. Men are are not organizing themselves to prevent women from being equal. By contrast we are waiting for the major of them to accept equality.Are you serious? Even apart from the rightness or wrongness of defending individual people who are currently in prison, how we treat those men reflects on us as a society, like how we treat our aged, children or other creatures. | /r/MensRights | 31/10/20 03:54 AM |
| 3 | Just exhausted with the word patriarchy. It doesn’t exist.Its more like The Excuse-chiarchy. Men are are not organizing themselves to prevent women from being equal. By contrast we are waiting for the major of them to accept equality.Obviously, the treatment of prisoners isn't the only issue for men's advocates, but, since the vast majority of inmates are men and boys (both in "more developed" and "less developed" nations), why wouldn't men's advocates want to bring attention to it? In the US, prisoners (again, mostly men) are effectively being used as a sub-class of workers. Male prison rape remains the subject of humour in movies and TV. | /r/MensRights | 31/10/20 03:43 AM |
| 1 | There Is No Female Version Of EmasculationIt's not always a binary of less male = more female. A man might be regarded as a "not man" (ie. emasculated) because of some action, event or characteristic, but that doesn't have to imply female, just not man enough. I'm not sure why there's any need to bring in the overall value of men vs. women to society, either. The power of emasculation shows that society still values men as long as they keep to certain gendered expectations. This is also true for women. As has been shown in other comment… | /r/MensRights | 30/10/20 09:15 PM |
| 4 | A bunch of quotes from the excellent book Tribe: On Homecoming and BelongingI don't think they are. People have innate worth and it's OK to have love for someone for just being. It's also true that people need to feel useful, and I'll even give you that this is especially a thing for men. I think maybe you're seeing it like, if we value men for themselves then we won't be motivated and won't feel useful. But I think we can do both. Wanting to be useful is still valid even when there's a "floor" of self worth that comes from being loved and valued at a human being. I hav… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 30/10/20 09:50 AM |
| 3 | There Is No Female Version Of EmasculationThis is sometimes called precarious masculinity. While there are things like infertility as mentioned that can affect a woman's sense of "womanliness", precarious masculinity is like the Man Card that can be recalled at any time if a man fails to meet expectations that are often arbitrary and shifting. Much like beauty consumerism capitalises on the insecurities of women, the effect on men is to keep us in a state of uncertainty and self-doubt, so that we can be effectively controlled or coerced… | /r/MensRights | 30/10/20 09:12 AM |
| 5 | A bunch of quotes from the excellent book Tribe: On Homecoming and BelongingI reject this approach to men that "we need to teach people to love men for who they are". I think the real solution should be "we need to give men the opportunities to be useful" Why not both? | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 30/10/20 08:43 AM |
| 2 | Historically, men were both masculine and built deep, supportive, emotional connections (including with each other). It doesn't have to be an either orTrust me, I'm pretty cynical, especially when it comes to men's issues. But, I really think this is something men can have again, if they want it. It will take a bit of effort and commitment, though. Community no longer comes naturally to many of us in this age. TM is "toxic masculinity". Not a fan of the term. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 29/10/20 08:45 PM |
| 2 | My story and a new men's mental health communityThanks for posting this - I haven't used it myself but I hope this is able to be a successful model for tackling men's mental health and suicide. | /r/MensRights | 29/10/20 02:03 AM |
| 3 | Historically, men were both masculine and built deep, supportive, emotional connections (including with each other). It doesn't have to be an either orI agree inasmuch as feminism contributed to a cultural atmosphere wherein male-only spaces were seen as anachronistic and backwards during the 70s, 80s and 90s. Yes, men willingly relinquished them, not just because of pressure from women, but because their value was unrecognised and not given priority. Other than specific, highly politicised environments as discussed (like universities) I don't think that atmosphere is nearly as strong. Many people are beginning to see the value in male-only sp… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 29/10/20 01:44 AM |
| 8 | I am a young, single, straight, handsome man who has spent the last two years working in childcare. Here's what I've learnedI have grown a lot as a person. I am FAR FAR FAR more emotionally aware and intelligent than I was before I started. I am far more sympathetic to what's going on in kids' lives, and I have learned to recognize all sorts of signs of abuse and neglect, and have learned how to deal with it appropriately. I can totally relate to this from when I began teaching (high school). I thought I was a patient, empathetic person before I started, but boy did I have a long way to go to survive in that environm… | /r/MensRights | 28/10/20 09:04 AM |
| 1 | Historically, men were both masculine and built deep, supportive, emotional connections (including with each other). It doesn't have to be an either orI'll give you that. I don't know much about universities, but I don't doubt that this is the case given the current climate. Beyond those charged academic environments, though, I think men now have a lot of freedom to set up informal or formal options for gathering together, and that doing so would rarely find any organised opposition (though some men may find barriers because of their personal relationships). These could be based around a shared skill or interest (eg. sport, singing, video game… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 28/10/20 01:03 AM |
| 5 | QUESTION: In regards to education, how do all-boys institutions fare compare to all-girls institutions?It's an interesting question, and it can be difficult finding statistics on this because of the need to control for other variables. For example, in my country the vast majority of single-sex schools are private schools whose attendees are on a higher socio-economic band than average. They're usually religious too. Many of these schools laud the advantages of a single-sex approach in their advertising or in occasional media pieces, but it's hardly an unbiased opinion. There are a tiny number of … | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 27/10/20 10:57 PM |
| 1 | Historically, men were both masculine and built deep, supportive, emotional connections (including with each other). It doesn't have to be an either orI'd like to challenge the idea that the decline of these spaces (in Western nations like the US, Canada, Australia, etc.) was mainly because of feminists. I say this not because of any need to defend feminism, but because I just don't think it's accurate. The decline of men's voluntary groups, clubs and associations since the 60s mirrors the general decline in voluntary organisations from lodges to churches. We can look for reasons for this, but I think the rise of consumer culture and the satur… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 27/10/20 10:40 PM |
| 3 | Under socialized -> Socialized -> Over socialized: Three stages of masculinity (or anything)As someone who grew up finding it difficult to naturally conform to a masculine ideal, I think a big problem has been the lack of a pathway or definition that is both clear and attainable. For much of my life, masculinity (outside of theory in books and historical ideals that sound good on paper) has seemed like a vague or frankly shallow set of behaviours and standards, from swilling beer to obsessing over sports to some kind of physicality, some "je ne sais quoi" about having a winning attitud… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 27/10/20 08:51 AM |
| 6 | Psychology Today: Masculinity is not the problem.Or you could just use an expression that doesn't have the associative problem. eg. toxic gender roles for men | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 27/10/20 07:58 AM |
| 6 | Psychology Today: Masculinity is not the problem.Again, many like myself who oppose the use of the term are aware of what it was defined to mean (though that seems to vary even among those who claim to have the real definition, or who claim to be using it for "good"). In another thread of this post, you rightly critique the implicit traditionalism of the OP article because it lionises masculinity instead of connecting it with any negative aspects of gender roles for men. I believe the impact of the use of the term TM is the inverse of this. In… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 26/10/20 09:05 PM |
| 4 | The core of the problem.While it can be useful to consider such a long temporal perspective, it can't be an excuse to accept injustice now. A geologist may think a million years isn't long from the point of view of rocks, but that doesn't necessarily help much in the here-and-now. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 26/10/20 04:46 AM |
| 8 | Psychology Today: Masculinity is not the problem.But everytime I talk about the qualifying aspect of adjectives like "toxic" I think the issue for many of us is the pairing of "toxic" with "masculinity" and the adverse effects of that, not an inability to understand general grammar rules and conventions. So it probably depends on what/who you're calling toxic. The example of waste is a non-issue. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 26/10/20 04:35 AM |
| 1 | Life Advice for Younger Men: Social Life and Relationships EditionThanks for sharing your own situation. When you said that you have trouble clicking with people because of a fear of not being able to keep impressing them, was this in the context of a shared activity, a purely social occasion, or a school environment? My experience with friends (albeit fairly limited) is that it's easiest for things to develop when you're just doing things together as described by OP, and it usually takes time. My first close friend I made in university because we spent a lot … | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 23/10/20 12:03 AM |
| 1 | Masculinity in 2020: Feminist perspectives (AKA worthless words)People have been talking about getting back to these manly initiation rites since before I was a boy in the 80s and 90s. I haven't seen anyone actually accomplish it (for reasons that you hint at too), so I'm a bit cynical. I think it's a simple, well understood truth that men are made, not born. I don't think you've justified why this should be the way of things, other than pointing to common practices in past societies. If the purpose of these rites was to produce functioning, trustworthy and … | /r/MensRights | 20/10/20 10:53 PM |
| 14 | Feminists Complain about Misandry being Called out: "'Man-Bashing' Is the New, Trending Double Standard"Yet women are not the primary upholders of toxic masculinity. The people most invested in enforcing stereotypical masculinity are men: Wrong. As admitted even by feminist Bell Hooks. Women and men are both responsible for inculcating and policing gendered expectations on boys and men. Stop denying your agency. Doing so does not empower you. Men’s rights activists are open about the fact that they consider any feminist progress to be an erosion of men’s birthright. Can someone tell me where this … | /r/MensRights | 16/10/20 02:24 AM |
| 1 | What are your thoughts on this? In Ireland, there's a "Dublin Boys Club" that encourages men to share their real feelings, to explore healthy masculinity and offers a safe place to be vulnerable.I think your heart is in the right place. Obviously we're not going to convince each other about this particular vocabulary. I'm not one of those people who doesn't want to face facts. I just think many men and boys need building up right now, rather than feeling like they have to pay for their fathers' sins. "Thanks for not calling me a bitch like the other men in this sub!" Of course! I'm not a fan of that term either! | /r/MensRights | 15/10/20 10:54 AM |
| 1 | What are your thoughts on this? In Ireland, there's a "Dublin Boys Club" that encourages men to share their real feelings, to explore healthy masculinity and offers a safe place to be vulnerable.I don't disagree that there are unhealthy expectations and roles for men. I don't think the concept is ignored either - a good number of posts on this sub are complaining about it - male disposability, the assumption of hyper-agency, hypersexual performance or desire, unfair dating standards, etc. But I think you're ignoring how the term reads, how it always needs to be explained, how it only entered popular discourse as part of a discussion around female victims (metoo, Gillette ad, etc.) How i… | /r/MensRights | 15/10/20 10:05 AM |
| 7 | Why Men’s Rights Activists Should Care About Folklore.Actually was interesting to read three folk tales from different cultures that I hadn't heard before. Many fairy tales that are considered examples of prejudice against women are just as bad in terms of the message for men. For every damsel that needs saving, there's a man being rewarded for putting himself in ridiculous danger, and usually killing a bunch of other men in the process. If you're generally interested in folk tales, both famous and obscure, there are some podcasts like https://www.… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 15/10/20 08:33 AM |
| 2 | What are your thoughts on this? In Ireland, there's a "Dublin Boys Club" that encourages men to share their real feelings, to explore healthy masculinity and offers a safe place to be vulnerable.As far as social movements go, it's normal to change words if they're not efficacious. Until recently (a decade or so), the popular term among feminists for this same concept was Hegemonic Masculinity. The reasons for that term being dumped in favour of TM would be interesting to discuss, but one of them is probably that it implies the problem is mainly about power structures. Patriarchy has similar problems but it hasn't been dumped (I'd guess because of it being such a core concept among most … | /r/MensRights | 14/10/20 09:40 PM |
| 2 | What are your thoughts on this? In Ireland, there's a "Dublin Boys Club" that encourages men to share their real feelings, to explore healthy masculinity and offers a safe place to be vulnerable.People can choose to use whatever language they like. There's certainly alternatives to describe the concept we're taking about, but I think insisting on terms like TM is shooting themselves in the foot. It's my observation that many people react negatively to the term, and particularly those men most likely to be affected by restrictive gender expectations. | /r/MensRights | 14/10/20 08:44 PM |
| 2 | What are your thoughts on this? In Ireland, there's a "Dublin Boys Club" that encourages men to share their real feelings, to explore healthy masculinity and offers a safe place to be vulnerable.I know what it means. I get the concept. It's toxic/unhealthy gender roles/expectations for men. But language isn't just about valid or invalid technical terms. It also matters how you say something, what it means to the person you're talking to. | /r/MensRights | 14/10/20 07:40 AM |
| 6 | 7 Harmful Traditional Male Gender Roles Most Women Still ExpectI respect your devotion to this communitarian ideal (honestly, not being sarcastic). In that light, I'd say it's the number one thing about being a human. There's no reason today for a woman not to risk her life and health to protect the people she loves. | /r/MensRights | 14/10/20 04:33 AM |
| 19 | 7 Harmful Traditional Male Gender Roles Most Women Still ExpectThat's like the number one thing about being a man. The number one thing about being a man is a societal obligation? "A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm." - the first law of robotics. | /r/MensRights | 14/10/20 03:38 AM |
| 3 | On the topic of how men are viewed sexuallyWhat would be your vision for a culture in which boys and men are raised with consistent, positive messages about their sexual being, as well as healthy and effective advice about their sexual interactions with others? | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 14/10/20 02:44 AM |
| 1 | We need a 20 hour workweekCool, I appreciate your reply. I seem to recall that a limited trial was done somewhere recently - Finland? | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 14/10/20 02:12 AM |
| 15 | 7 Harmful Traditional Male Gender Roles Most Women Still ExpectHow is one person being expected to pay for dates simply because of what junk they have either normal or healthy? | /r/MensRights | 14/10/20 02:03 AM |
| 20 | The Problem of Surplus White MenI used to check in on resilience.org back when it was focused on looming energy and resource decline and transition to an energy-constrained world. Now it's just a place for opinions that are vaguely leftish or progressivish. To be fair, many of the comments at men's lib are calling out the simplistic thinking in the piece. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 14/10/20 12:50 AM |
| 1 | We need a 20 hour workweekYeah maybe. I haven't really researched the arguments for and against UBI, to be honest. What would you say are the biggest strengths and potential problems with it? | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 14/10/20 12:40 AM |
| 2 | We need a 20 hour workweekI'm for it in terms of allowing men to have more time with their families, and encouraging an understanding of the importance of fatherhood alongside motherhood. I'm saying it's hard to justify from a purely economic perspective, or from a "good for business" perspective. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 13/10/20 11:54 PM |
| 3 | What are your thoughts on this? In Ireland, there's a "Dublin Boys Club" that encourages men to share their real feelings, to explore healthy masculinity and offers a safe place to be vulnerable.Consider, though, have you heard anyone use the term "toxic capitalism", who isn't an avowed anti-capitalist? Would you consider it useful or respectful to use the phrase "toxic Christianity" while interacting with a believer? If I were a woman myself, I could maybe see myself using the term "toxic femininity" to critique gender expectations that fall on me (though I'd probably still look for a better term). If most of the people using that term were coming from a movement called Masculism, and … | /r/MensRights | 13/10/20 10:29 PM |
| 2 | What are your thoughts on this? In Ireland, there's a "Dublin Boys Club" that encourages men to share their real feelings, to explore healthy masculinity and offers a safe place to be vulnerable.I don't think the word was ever very consistently defined or understood to begin with. The often antagonistic dialogue of the last five years has just dragged that out into the open. | /r/MensRights | 13/10/20 10:17 PM |
| 6 | We need a 20 hour workweekWomen entering the workforce should have allowed Men to work less hours. That was never going to happen under a globalised, market system, just like accessing abundant fossil fuels (thousands of carbon "slaves" per person) didn't give us significantly less work hours either. As far as I know, it also didn't happen under historical state communist regimes, so they're not off the hook. This is something we've talked about here before. Many of the changes perceived as women's victories also happene… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 13/10/20 10:05 PM |
| 1 | "Dublin Boys Club" in Ireland encourages men to share their real feelings and offers a safe place to be vulnerable.Why does it always have to be one extreme or another when we describe male social options? Either it's some cold locker room or smoke-filled cigar club devoid of all vulnerability and emotional expression, or it has to be essentially group therapy sitting in a circle and discussing feelings 100% of the time. If those really are the only options then we need to take the initiative to organise better things, because only a small niche group of men are going to join that latter option (instead of j… | /r/MensRights | 13/10/20 03:18 AM |
| 8 | "Fact: Girls run it better."Yeah, I wouldn't buy a shirt like that for my niece, but I take the view that if you have to wear a deliberate social message on a t-shirt, you're probably just wishing that message was true. Funny story: I once had an old Coldplay merch t-shirt that had the text "We live in a beautiful world" and I was harangued by a random member of the public outside a train station, who was like, "Do you really believe that!!?" | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 13/10/20 02:42 AM |
| 4 | Homosexual Men's Rights Activist AllianceThis is a very sweeping statement about a diverse group of men. What is your evidence for this hatred / misandry? If I can suggest a reason why some gay men may not have the best associations with a certain kind of male culture or "traditional" male behaviours / roles, it may be because we were more likely to feel like outsiders when we were younger, perhaps more likely to be bullied (or worse) by boys/men who seemed to represent that culture. This is just armchair psychology, but some gay men m… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 12/10/20 06:05 AM |
| 1 | Music about men's rights?This is a really interesting question. I just went through some of my song library to see if I had anything that connected, but I can't think of any music that is themed around men's advocacy in the same way that it's possible to identify explicitly feminist-themed songs. Awakening to disappointment seems to be a story among some MRAs. They're super old now, but I think Radiohead's albums The Bends and OK Computer describe the alienation of modern life combined with the absurdity of societal nor… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 12/10/20 02:06 AM |
| 1 | Article: Why are we are trying to change masculinity rather than create male-friendly services?Ok but that's related to the whole contention of the article. While the abolition of gender roles is on the way (maybe) there's things that could be done to make health services work better for men. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 10/10/20 09:15 PM |
| 2 | Article: Why are we are trying to change masculinity rather than create male-friendly services?I wasn't equating the two, just trying to point out how the advice can come across as not very directly actionable. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 09/10/20 11:50 PM |
| 2 | Article: Why are we are trying to change masculinity rather than create male-friendly services?"You want to move that asteroid, why don't you just change the gravitational constant of the universe?" "What?" "Change the gravitational constant of-" "Redefine gravity! And how am I supposed to do that!?" "You just do it." | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 09/10/20 10:56 PM |
| 1 | Article: Why are we are trying to change masculinity rather than create male-friendly services?I think there's a subtle nuance here - he's talking about situations where we are already trying to help people. The stats around men's mental and physical health are increasingly acknowledged today, mentioned in mainstream articles, discussed by health experts etc. so it is understood as a real area of need, though there's still a long way to go with that too. I don't think we're talking here about groups that are disfavoured in general. The issue is how we try to help men. Do we place the emph… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 09/10/20 10:55 PM |
| 1 | Article: Why are we are trying to change masculinity rather than create male-friendly services?I think there's a lot of podcasts / blogs that talk from that angle. One series of articles that I found an interesting/challenging read was this, not that I necessarily agreed with everything in it. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 09/10/20 10:47 PM |
| 9 | Article: Why are we are trying to change masculinity rather than create male-friendly services?The source of the "emotional labour" complaint could be a couple of different things, some of which may be valid. But I agree it adds to the overall contradictory messaging. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 09/10/20 09:55 AM |
| 3 | Article: Why are we are trying to change masculinity rather than create male-friendly services?Good point! | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 09/10/20 08:47 AM |
| 2 | Is there a good Feminist discord server I can educate myself with that I won't be banned from for being an MRA?I think I misread where you said, "Then I'll just have points that I'll have proof against". Did you mean that in response to the previous comment? | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 09/10/20 12:24 AM |
| 4 | Is there a good Feminist discord server I can educate myself with that I won't be banned from for being an MRA?I'm sorry to be critical, but I think you just confirmed for them exactly what they think about MRAs, that they are interested mainly in arguing with feminists, rather than advocating for men. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 08/10/20 11:25 PM |
| 5 | What is this sub's opinion on encouraging more male solidarity?I don't think it's realistic to expect a kind of universal brotherhood of men on a society-wide level. But I think we can look to history to find examples of male camaraderie among groups of men beyond just the military. There can be tremendous solidarity when men work together on a project whether it's harvesting a field, building a shed, singing a song, winning a football match, finishing a D&D campaign, etc. I've heard these types of groups described as gangs. The word today implies criminal … | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 08/10/20 10:52 PM |
| 1 | The fact that a pregnant woman publicly and proudly announces that she'll abort her kid if it's a man makes my stomach turn inside outOK, I think you've added a fair bit of nuance now, eg. men on average. I don't think it's as simple as men "express and feel less" than women. I think studies show that young boys are actually more emotional overall than young girls. So it's more about how (not how much) men and boys understand and express their emotions. Let me say that I'm not a blank-slatist who thinks it's all just social expectations that make men act the way they do. At the other extreme, I'm not a biological determinist w… | /r/MensRights | 08/10/20 12:23 AM |
| 3 | Women have no right talking about how men express their masculinity.I personally think the main issue is with placing the word toxic with the word masculinity. I can go into more detail if you want, but the word masculinity is not as universally understood as some people think. For many men it has to do with identity and maleness, not just socially-imposed expectations. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 07/10/20 07:40 AM |
| 5 | The fact that a pregnant woman publicly and proudly announces that she'll abort her kid if it's a man makes my stomach turn inside outAssuming you're coming from a Christian perspective, I don't see a lot in scripture about men being urged to dominate anyone or anything. There are references to rulership / stewardship, but that is different from domination / control. Jesus wept. In fact, the Psalm writer(s), Jeremiah and others in scripture weep frequently. Is that soft? We have a God who brought about a world of amazing variety. We have scripture filled with examples of different kinds of men - some strong warriors in the tra… | /r/MensRights | 07/10/20 02:25 AM |
| 4 | Women have no right talking about how men express their masculinity.Some MRAs employ the concept of gynocentrism (not the same as matriarchy), but I wouldn't say it's a cornerstone of men's activism as a whole. For the record, I don't agree that feminism is about hating men necessarily, but I do think the concept of patriarchy needs a complete overhaul and name change if it is to properly represent what many modern feminists seem to claim that it does - an emergent system of gender roles that harms both men and women in different ways. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 06/10/20 11:06 PM |
| 1 | Women have no right talking about how men express their masculinity.You could just say "toxic gender expectations on men". | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 06/10/20 10:59 PM |
| 5 | Women have no right talking about how men express their masculinity.I still think women are allowed to talk about this topic, since these traits tend to harm them aswell as other men or oneself. I think some of the frustration comes from this: Over the course of the last 100 years, when feminists questioned and criticised femininity, this criticism came from women. They didn't, and still don't, accept men criticising femininity itself, or suggesting that women can be more/less feminine by doing this or that. But with masculinity, everyone (particularly feminism)… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 06/10/20 09:35 PM |
| 3 | The Gillette StrategyI think this would depend on when you go shopping. The traditional nuclear family shopping outing will stand out more because it's often a woman with children during the day. In contrast, single people go at less traditional times, take up less space and move through the process much quicker. | /r/MensRights | 06/10/20 08:34 AM |
| 2 | Relation between Men's Rights and other GroupsThe point of contention was whether "we live in a society where men benefit at women's expense". If a system is "oppressive to women" and "assigns higher value to men", wouldn't it stand to reason that, under such a system, men benefit at women's expense? | /r/MensRights | 06/10/20 08:19 AM |
| 4 | The Gillette StrategyThis is traditional thinking around grocery shopping. I'd guess that most everyday shaving products are still purchased in supermarkets, and women were often traditionally expected to do the regular supermarket shop. But that logic depends on an old model of nuclear family with disparate roles (husband works, wife shops). That form of task allocation is less common now, as is the nuclear family itself. Plus, people increasingly shop online for everyday items like shaving products, where there is… | /r/MensRights | 06/10/20 05:42 AM |
| 3 | Sean Galla, Founder of Men’s Group: Being a Man Is Not Easy/The Hardships Men Facespaces for camaraderie and trust I think you've hit on one of the problems with how men's spaces are seen. There seems to be this binary thinking that if it's not a targeted setting for discussing feelings all the time, then it's an empty waste of time that achieves nothing or worse - a breeding ground for misogyny and macho attitudes. I think that way of thinking misunderstands the history of men's friendship "circles", how they can alleviate loneliness and social isolation (massive issues for … | /r/MensRights | 06/10/20 02:19 AM |
| 1 | Why Is Misandry So Mainstream? Do You Think Its Damaging The Way Future Generations Think?Yes, thanks for pointing this out. Some of the examples in the article are just silly extremes, but I think people are blind to how feminine-coded the branding on health-related products is by default. eg. This is the branding for a chain of pharmacies in my country. These are places where people (men and women) are expected to go to get bandaids, prescriptions for medications, not just feminine beauty products. | /r/MensRights | 06/10/20 01:13 AM |
| 5 | Women have no right talking about how men express their masculinity.Eww, "held accountable" sounds like some serious Sins of the Fathers stuff. I'd like to meet all these boys that somehow got a free ride through life and were never held accountable for behaviour. It certainly wasn't my experience. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 05/10/20 11:06 PM |
| 1 | Women have no right talking about how men express their masculinity.I'm kinda curious what the rest of the word starting with "HE" is. "Boys will be he" is sort of freeing in it's simplicity and inconclusiveness, even though it doesn't include all gender identities. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 05/10/20 10:18 PM |
| 2 | Relation between Men's Rights and other GroupsAre there straight forward, non-internet ways to address this problem? I'm a little surprised that the feminists you know aren't all over this, since MRAs are the ones typically accused of doing nothing but complaining, while feminists claim to be the ones out there solving all these problems. I get involved with Movember each year, which raises money for a number of men's issues, including suicide. You can get informed about how many current government initiatives for suicide prevention fail me… | /r/MensRights | 05/10/20 09:37 PM |
| 2 | Relation between Men's Rights and other GroupsThe concept of patriarchy does seem to be a core tenet of most feminism, as far as I can tell. From Wikipedia: "Most forms of feminism characterize patriarchy as an unjust social system that is oppressive to women." From Geek Feminism, a popular site for introducing feminism: "Patriarchy is a term used in feminism to describe the system of gender-based hierarchy in society which assigns most power to men, and assigns higher value to men, maleness, and "masculine traits". Feminism recognizes most… | /r/MensRights | 05/10/20 09:29 PM |
| 5 | Relation between Men's Rights and other GroupsYes, you can absolutely care about issues that disproportionately affect women and issues that disproportionately affect men at the same time. One question is where will you invest your energy and time? Generally, a lot of people find that they are more effective if they pick one cause and work on that. All i see is, that the worst examples of feminism are getting picked out and made into "perfect examples" how feminists are bad and hate all men. I would agree with this observation about this su… | /r/MensRights | 05/10/20 02:14 AM |
| 1 | Men’s sexual assault isn’t being taken seriously in movies and TV showsYou'll find feminism has a pretty bad image on this sub. Anyway, I think this video addresses the topic you've raised from a perspective that's not antagonistic towards feminism: https://youtu.be/uc6QxD2_yQw | /r/MensRights | 02/10/20 11:38 AM |
| 1 | How will the fall of global civilization affect feminism and the mra movementI think it will be gradual, punctuated decline rather than sudden collapse. The trend is towards less energy, less material wealth, but it will happen in fits and starts and will be unevenly spread around the world. This doesn't mean population levels may not change dramatically over, eg. a hundred-year period. The slower change should allow societies to select appropriate technologies and social norms, particularly in times of apparent recovery. What's important to note is that this isn't as si… | /r/MensRights | 02/10/20 03:09 AM |
| 6 | The Problem with Modern Masculinity with Isaac ButterfieldSo, your problem isn't with "toxic masculinity" but with masculinity in general? How have you chosen to define that? I'm not a fan of this guy (and he definitely doesn't represent all Aussie men with his gruff shtick), but this video contains some OK points around being yourself and valuing virtue. | /r/MensRights | 29/09/20 03:37 AM |
| 89 | An Auckland dad was told by an angry mum to leave the parents' room where he was looking after his baby daughter. Josh Anderson was out with his 5-month-old daughter at the Westfield in Manukau when he needed to change her nappy and give her a bottle.Good for him. I remember when these rooms were called "mother's rooms" and signposted as such. Most parent rooms I've seen today just have a symbol for a baby, so it's odd to see the two female symbols for the room in such a supposedly progressive country as NZ. | /r/MensRights | 28/09/20 01:33 AM |
| 3 | Intersectionality for MenIt's also more complex. Stats show more men commit suicide who have not been diagnosed with depression before the act. This is one of the reasons why an approach to suicide prevention needs to consider the male experience more. Also, there's a difference between "women attempt suicide more" and "more suicide attempts are recorded by women". The actual stats need to be checked. Without being callous, it's clearly possible for the stats to be skewed by multiple attempts. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 26/09/20 04:12 AM |
| 3 | Male characters in recent movies and television shows (say, 2015 onward) that are actually portrayed positively?I thought Disney/Pixar's Onward was a fairly good portrayal. The two brothers sort their problems out together with their dad, without needing to be saved or fixed emotionally by a female character. The potential step-father figure is a little silly, but not disrespected in any real sense. I think the way that film flips the script on gender roles is clever. The female characters get to do the heroic swashbuckling, but it's only to prove something to themselves, not to the other characters or to… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 22/09/20 12:26 AM |
| 1 | Looking for papers or articles on positive masculinity and /or darkness in femininityI'm not really clear on why a counselling course should be political in the first place. What's the specific bias that you're trying to counter? Maybe the basis of your response is that such bias doesn't belong in the course. | /r/MensRights | 21/09/20 10:33 PM |
| 1 | The truth about r/MensLibThey both have upsides and downsides. One is a heavily controlled space that can sometimes allow for good conversations, the other is more chaotic and emotion-fueled, but allows for perspectives you might not otherwise hear. | /r/MensRights | 18/09/20 03:04 AM |
| 5 | When did the meaning of "social justice" twist?I think it has mixed a little with the notion of a "keyboard warrior", the kind of person who engages in aggressive but ultimately ineffectual posturing online. As someone who sees social justice itself as a generally good thing, I dislike the use of the term SJW to label people in such a negative way. I don't think it is a coincidence that the term conflates actual social justice (much of which is questioning, counterbalancing or opposing neoliberal capitalist economics) and the most inane over… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 18/09/20 01:40 AM |
| 2 | Helping boys catch up in writing skillsI can relate to what you're saying when I look at my high school years. Other than Shakespeare, my teachers seemed determined to choose standard books that were the least relatable to a teenage boy like me. If it wasn't Jane Eyre, it was books about someone experiencing of prejudice in the 60s or people with disabilities. The thing is, there's nothing wrong with those topics and I could probably tolerate those books now and connect somehow to their message and tone, but not with the limited life… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 17/09/20 10:54 PM |
| 1 | Helping boys catch up in writing skillsBefore the age of 12, I didn't touch a novel. I tended to like non-fiction books about how things work, with cut-out images, etc. I also liked Asterix! After 12, I began to read some sci-fi and fantasy fiction, like Raymond Feist and Isaac Asimov. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 17/09/20 10:44 PM |
| 1 | I could use ideas for my men's day docu seriesMaybe you could find a guy who designs/makes games for a hobby (eg. video games, board games)? Seems like a topic that a lot of men could find interesting or relate to, and there's probably lots of forums/boards out there where you could ask for a volunteer. Or you could look at an unusual or off-the-wall team sport like cardboard tube fighting. | /r/MensRights | 17/09/20 05:31 AM |
| 2 | I'm overreacting ?I agree that, when you take all the public messaging as a stream, we currently have overall negative signalling going on for men and boys as you describe. It's a bit like someone being a Catholic in a time when every related headline is about priests and paedophilia. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 17/09/20 01:08 AM |
| 3 | I'm overreacting ?I think this is more of a subculture initiative thing. Like, eg. a Jewish environmental awareness group, or the Seaman's Mission, or the Country Women's Association. The existence of these initiatives shows that we still place women as a specific subgroup or community within society, in a way that we don't with men. There is no "community" of men, in that sense. Having said that, I would find it really heartening to see a similar project specifically led by men and labelled as such, eg. "Men Bui… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 17/09/20 12:52 AM |
| 1 | united is better (let's join feminism and men's rights)It's almost like the concept of patriarchy is incomplete, that it misses the mark, rather than being totally wrong. The system of gender roles we've all inherited is being viewed from a particular oppressor-oppressed perspective, hence the one-directional gendered nature of the terminology. I think some feminists do recognise the inadequacy of that perspective to bring in many men's issues and have tried to expand the definition of patriarchy (while keeping the name) but it's a difficult reform … | /r/MensRights | 17/09/20 12:34 AM |
| 9 | Thought you guys would find this comic interestingInteresting read. I think it was intentional, but it's difficult to untangle how much of the hurt is caused by the people around him and how much is due to the story he has internalised. In one of the last panels, I thought it was telling that he's unable to find male characters with positive emotional health. I recognised Shinji Ikari, Han Solo, Rincewind(?) in his lineup of negatives. But, for every Shinji, there is an Aang/Zuko or Stephen Universe. For every Han Solo, there is a Jean-Luc Pica… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 17/09/20 12:16 AM |
| 5 | What projects are out there that address men's social isolation?It's been my obversation that traditional lodges (Masons, RAOB, etc.) don't really get pilloried by women any more. They're generally too obscure. In my city there were a few highly influential "men's clubs" with big money and job-networks, and these attracted criticism. These are the exception rather than the rule. I think most volunteer or community groups today need to have a hobby, sport or interest focus. Older groups like Rotary tried to keep going on philanthropy and general "public good"… | /r/MensRights | 16/09/20 11:18 PM |
| 16 | What projects are out there that address men's social isolation?You're doing great work! All power to you. Your reference to mens sheds makes me think you're probably in Australia. Have you looked at some of the initiatives mentioned at the recent Mens Health Connected symposium run by the Australian Men's Health Forum?: Week 1 was about suicide prevention Week 2 mentioned boys' health as well as sport Week 3/4 had sessions on working with young men | /r/MensRights | 16/09/20 11:10 PM |
| 2 | I’m not “anti-feminist”, I just think self-proclaimed “feminists” can do betterSome of this is in-group / out-group thinking. Certain people within a group may not respond well to criticism from someone outside the group because of a sense that they haven't "put in the hard yards". To such a person, it can seem like ignorant nit-picking. Ironically, Christian scripture is littered with examples of people outside the in-group and their influence. The kind of internecine conflict you mention can be even more harsh because of a fear that "they should know better", "they're le… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 16/09/20 09:53 PM |
| 14 | Yet again men are blamed entirely for things that have also been perpetuated by women in both the past and presentHow is this helpful? This is the sort of thing people say to female MRAs and it doesn't (and shouldn't) discredit them. It's unfalsifiable and petty. If the guy is wrong and misguided, he's wrong and misguided. Why tag some other motivation to it? | /r/MensRights | 16/09/20 05:16 AM |
| 1 | Because woman definitely can't be toxic tooThis literally draws an ugly caricature of a man and calls it a political cartoon. There's a reason media long ago stopped publishing political cartoons with nameless individuals to represent demographics. It's hateful. Anything the cartoon has to say about masculinity is lost because of this. Why not draw a cartoon of a slanty-eyed nameless Chinese person and use it to teach me a lesson about Confucian culture? | /r/MensRights | 16/09/20 05:05 AM |
| 3 | The truth about r/MensLibThe goal can’t be that all men should succeed, but we should try to remove the barriers, and even the playingfield. I think this could be phrased better (I see you mention below that English is not your first language). I don't think it's unrealistic or utopian to say that all men should be able to succeed at something. The word "succeed" is more about mastery than competition. A historical problem has been that men's choices have been unnecessarily limited and prescribed by gendered expectation… | /r/MensRights | 16/09/20 03:40 AM |
| 1 | "Toxic masculinity" is thinly veiled misandry and we should stop using the term.Though it's difficult to construct from single-sentence responses, it sounds to me that you're just describing gender roles and expectations interacting with economic power structures, probably due to a history of gendered division of labour. Wouldn't it be more accurate to just say that gender roles hurt men too? | /r/MensRights | 16/09/20 01:12 AM |
| 1 | "Toxic masculinity" is thinly veiled misandry and we should stop using the term.So the Patriarchy is Capitalism? My manager (and I've had female ones too) works with me on projects and clarifies what needs to be done for me to get a paycheck each fortnight. He or she doesn't tell me what a "man" is or does, and in fact doesn't dictate much of my life at all. In the case of my current employment, my manager reports to a volunteer committee made up of men and women. As far as I'm aware, there's no uber-man above them. | /r/MensRights | 16/09/20 12:52 AM |
| 1 | No Space for MenI support the main point here, but I think you could be accused of being disingenuous about the "number of beds available to men". The main pushback I've heard is that there are plenty of domestic violence shelters that cater for women and men (in addition to the women-only ones). See, eg. this guy, whose video is admittedly kind of annoying so I've set the link to the relevant timestamp. He portrays women-only shelters as a relic of the 60s and 70s, whose numbers are apparently dwarfed by the o… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 15/09/20 11:56 PM |
| 1 | "Toxic masculinity" is thinly veiled misandry and we should stop using the term.Such organisation! As a man, I've never seen any of this secret Orwellian hierarchy. Who should I be reporting to? My dad? | /r/MensRights | 15/09/20 10:49 PM |
| 1 | "Toxic masculinity" is thinly veiled misandry and we should stop using the term.In that case, who is actually ruling this power structure, since it's not men as a group? | /r/MensRights | 15/09/20 05:15 AM |
| 5 | Hey you reading this, you have worth, lots of it. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.Men don't have intrinsic value to society. If a man just exists but doesn't produce anything he is, in effect, a drain on the resources of everyone around him. I think you're taking a far too utilitarian approach here. This is the worst time in history for men to be placing all our worth in economic value. When our global economy is the most impersonal, capricious and disconnected from reality than it has ever been. When social media divides and dehumanises us. When employers no longer value loy… | /r/MensRights | 15/09/20 01:26 AM |
| 4 | Homophobia against Gay Men is Due to Misandry, Not MisogynyI consider myself fortunate as a gay man that I haven't often faced the kind of direct, visceral homophobia that others describe. Having said that, I think today much of the remaining suspicion or disdain for homosexuality is less about effeminacy and more about: the transgression of traditional gender roles and the accompanying sense of instability and resentment that brings for those who still adhere to them, (for some men) the fear of being labelled and categorised into a marginalised group, … | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 14/09/20 11:24 PM |
| 2 | "Toxic masculinity" is thinly veiled misandry and we should stop using the term.And the truth is for all the people who want to change the term, none of them have made any attempt to do so. The UK's Men's Advice Line has a respect toolkit designed for frontline workers. In the section on masculinity, they acknowledge the role that harmful gendered expectations play and they explicitly say that they prefer not to use the term Toxic Masculinity because of the way it is interpreted by many people. FWIW, I agree that there is an element in subs like this who play the oppression… | /r/MensRights | 14/09/20 11:01 PM |
| 1 | "Toxic masculinity" is thinly veiled misandry and we should stop using the term.There's no way to win with this though. There would still be people complaining that the idea that some male gender roles are harmful is inherently insulting to men. So we can't do better with our language because there's always some people who will misinterpret it? That seems a bit defeatist. I think TM as a term has been a disaster for getting many men on-side with the idea of fighting harmful gender roles in an inclusive way, and especially a PR disaster for feminism, if it wanted those men t… | /r/MensRights | 14/09/20 10:32 PM |
| 3 | "Toxic masculinity" is thinly veiled misandry and we should stop using the term.But why not just take a step back and choose a more appropriate and effective term that: - doesn't seem like it's attacking men themselves, - more men can get behind and use to recognise the impact of gender roles and expectations falling on them? Part of advocacy is getting people on board, particularly the people who most need to. Here's a few alternatives: toxic gender expectations for men toxic gender roles for men (same number of syllables as TM) unhealthy gender roles for men harmful gende… | /r/MensRights | 14/09/20 10:26 PM |
| 3 | As a Fallout play and I paid attention to the lyrics for the first time, and I am disappointed.The point is the song is from a different era with different social expectations, as seen in that movie as well as the Fallout series of video games. Just about anyone today reading the lyrics of that song would see it as an expression of female desperation in a time when women were still dependent on men to take care of them financially. This is no longer the case in developed nations, and any woman who still has that attitude would deserve to be criticised for it. | /r/MensRights | 14/09/20 10:14 PM |
| 2 | "Toxic masculinity" is thinly veiled misandry and we should stop using the term.So you're saying that Patriarchy is not a real power structure, but just a set of expectations? | /r/MensRights | 14/09/20 10:10 PM |
| 2 | "Toxic masculinity" is thinly veiled misandry and we should stop using the term.If men are merely cogs in the system, why does the word for that system literally mean "rule of the father"? | /r/MensRights | 14/09/20 09:36 PM |
| 2 | As a Fallout play and I paid attention to the lyrics for the first time, and I am disappointed.You haven't seen Who Framed Roger Rabbit? | /r/MensRights | 14/09/20 09:30 PM |
| -1 | "Raising Boys To Respect Girls"I don't think it's being overly generous to say that they are probably not suggesting that you have to agree with horrible people just because they're women. I think people who say this have in mind a certain kind of family or peer pressure in which a boy is encouraged to see girls as some kind of other species that they can use and abuse. While I have no doubt that there are some families like this, and some groups of boys who talk like this, I think this approach increasingly misses the mark t… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 09/09/20 10:24 PM |
| 1 | Misandrist Laura Bates can't believe British students don't believe her propagandaThe frustrating thing is how often the causes don't match the proposed solutions. Every article like this cites loneliness, social isolation and lack of belonging as a cause, if not the primary cause. Extremists deliberately seek out vulnerable boys who feel unheard. The proposed solutions? School courses and programs to teach boys to respect women. Talking to your sons about respecting girls. Monitor their online use. How are any of these things addressing the cause? | /r/MensRights | 08/09/20 03:58 AM |
| 7 | Gender disparity in pursuit of self interest?I think there's a few things going on here. Leaving gender out of it for a moment, I believe there is universal virtue in being other-focused and not being too self-interested. Of course, a little bit of self-interest is healthy. The problem you seem to be describing for men has two facets: The gendered expectation that men sacrifice, provide, etc. This is something we often discuss here and it has a lot to do with our ideas of masculinity. We can debate the value of such ideals, but I think you… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 04/09/20 01:30 AM |
| 3 | This is 100% true, I asked feminists what they thought of MRAs and they hate our guts and think we’re women haters. This was commented on a post showing how boys are not graded fairly compared to girls in school (that post got massively reported)A lot of people hate that term because it's just bad: Clumsy, non-specific, prone to misuse and reads like blaming the victim (which, not coincidentally, is how it is often used), when it doesn't just read like hate. Even some members of menslib dislike the term and choose not to use it. BTW, it wasn't actually invented by feminists either, but it has recently been popularised by them. | /r/MensRights | 03/09/20 05:41 AM |
| 3 | Do you think the average woman thinks of men as being people too?I guess it's good that you're aware of your own biases. I think part of men's advocacy is to challenge them rather than accept them. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 03/09/20 04:04 AM |
| 2 | Male victims of domestic violence have few places to turn or services to callThe article portrays "MRAs" as misusing statistics with the apparent goal of bringing down funding for services for female victims, while at the same time stupidly poisoning the well of real advocacy for male victims. | /r/MensRights | 01/09/20 09:48 PM |
| 5 | Male victims of domestic violence have few places to turn or services to callThat really is how it reads to me at some points in the piece. "We can't give them the satisfaction." I think underneath is possibly a nagging thought that if we can't blame those meddling MRAs for ruining it for everyone, and we can no longer dismiss the reality that male victims exist (even if they represent a smaller number than female), then it means we'll have to admit that we just ignored male victims until now. And what does that say about us? | /r/MensRights | 01/09/20 06:14 AM |
| 4 | Male victims of domestic violence have few places to turn or services to callYes, this article was surprisingly even-handed. I don't understand the amount of paragraphs spent on blaming "MRAs" for destroying progress on the issue by apparently politicising the discussion, as if men's advocates have such massive political influence and power. As suggested towards the end of the article, if governments just do something about it there's no need to politicise anything. | /r/MensRights | 01/09/20 04:11 AM |
| 1 | Starting a new men's movement to address several issues that aren't being tackled currentlyI think on a broader, more abstract level though, men have kind of invented themselves out of necessity. Hmm, but I think that men (and women for that matter) find purpose within a community where they belong and have a role. It's not just about "raw" necessity. If we think of three layers of belonging, we might classify them as: Immediate family Local community (village, club, lodge, local faith community, etc.) "Meta" - national, global scale In the 19th-20th century, we saw the decline in Lay… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 31/08/20 11:42 PM |
| 2 | Starting a new men's movement to address several issues that aren't being tackled currentlyIf you only focus on flimsy things such as appearance then yes of course masculinity seems arbitrary. Do you know, I think this is actually a huge reason for the confusion that exists around the topic of masculinity today: we're presented with flimsy / apparently arbitrary stuff because there's no popular articulation of a deeper framework. It's clear that you have read some serious material about masculine archetypes, and I know this problem of shallowness was identified by the mythopoetic men'… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 31/08/20 08:42 AM |
| 5 | Starting a new men's movement to address several issues that aren't being tackled currentlyCool - seems very no-nonsense and I find nothing objectionable there. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 31/08/20 03:52 AM |
| 5 | Ways to Promote Homosocial Bonding and Male SolidarityMy observation is that many of the old all-male fraternal organisations (eg. Masons and other lodges, RAOB, etc.) are now obscure enough that most people don't see them any longer as "bastions of privilege". Some of them are on their last legs with very elderly membership, but it's unclear if younger generations of men are interested in what they do in terms of activities / service. I think maybe we overestimate this threat of male-only social outlets being seen as privileged in that sense. Ther… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 30/08/20 08:21 AM |
| 2 | Positive masculinity has to be more than oppositional.I think the concept of Precarious Manhood is a good way to articulate the problem. What do you see as solutions to this situation? What do you think people can do now to send the right message to men and boys? | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 30/08/20 03:09 AM |
| 2 | The latest on gender blind orchestra auditions: let's get rid of them so judges can more effectively discriminate against menI think you've taken a very different reading than I have on this. To me, saying "get rid of hypergamy" is not that different to saying "smash the patriarchy" (if we take a generous interpretation of that). It's about working to change accepted gender norms, not about dictating how everyone must pair up. Why would women want to "rise to the top" if that means a limited number of partners to choose from? Exactly. You're describing the current situation where hypergamy is a part of gender norms. H… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 29/08/20 01:42 AM |
| 1 | In Finnish there are many words that define men in a negative way and very few of women - and very few that describe men in a positive way. Reading an article about this, I just realized how the language steers men towards being good providers and protectors sacrificing often their own well-being.Interesting. I'm trying to think if we have analogues for those in English that refer to men specifically. I'm Australia, some of our terms originally for men are now informally used for women, which some see as a kind of casual egalitarianism. Like "mate" - generally used for boys and men, but can be used for women in casual situations. I'm most concerned about terms like Incel becoming general insults for men in the English speaking world. Hopefully just a short term thing. The one about what … | /r/MensRights | 28/08/20 09:28 AM |
| 1 | In Finnish there are many words that define men in a negative way and very few of women - and very few that describe men in a positive way. Reading an article about this, I just realized how the language steers men towards being good providers and protectors sacrificing often their own well-being.Can you give some examples of closest English counterparts? I've heard people argue that English has no male counterpart to the B word, but it sounds like you're not so much talking about offensive/swear words. | /r/MensRights | 28/08/20 02:13 AM |
| 5 | The latest on gender blind orchestra auditions: let's get rid of them so judges can more effectively discriminate against menIf you put an end to hypergamy, wouldn't it mean the "men on top" will go without a mate as there are fewer women "of their status"? I guess it would give some women a motivation to rise to the top, ie. to secure an "elite" mate. It's my understanding that currently the reverse is true - straight women at the top of their career / industry currently find a limited number of partners to choose from. When people argue for ending hypergamy, they're not really thinking of people at the top, just as … | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 27/08/20 11:19 PM |
| 6 | The latest on gender blind orchestra auditions: let's get rid of them so judges can more effectively discriminate against menLooking over a few of these articles, the main message seems to be that blind applications / blind auditions have failed (for whatever reason) to deliver the desired diversity in workforces. This is now considered more important than trying to prove a sociological point - that one demographic is advantaged purely by the selection process itself - so that particular experiment is over and it's back to affirmative action. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 26/08/20 11:12 PM |
| 1 | I'm bored of the "Dumb / Drunk / Loser" husband tropeYeah, my first thought was Gendo Ikari. | /r/MensRights | 26/08/20 10:55 PM |
| 1 | Videos on men's rights activism, anti-feminism, etc?Ok interesting approach. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 25/08/20 08:55 AM |
| 2 | Videos on men's rights activism, anti-feminism, etc?I don't have any videos to recommend, but I'm curious what your angle is or what you specifically want to to tackle in your video that hasn't been tackled in the others. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 25/08/20 05:53 AM |
| 1 | What are some ways we can make health services and other clubs/organizations more male friendly?Thanks for a positive post aimed at a productive purpose. It's my understanding that superficial attempts to make a service more male-friendly are generally not considered effective by medical practitioners. By "superficial", I mean things like having more manly magazines and decor in the waiting room. The exception is where branding is still deliberately feminine, as with some health products or pharmacy chains. Here's a quote from a 2010 article from Australian Family Physician: Disease preven… | /r/MensRights | 25/08/20 01:52 AM |
| 2 | Great conversation on toxic masculinity and renegotiating gender identity in the modern world (Greg Ellis & Bret Weinstein)I'm sure there was diversity of views within that movement, but criticisms I've heard are: an emphasis on manhood being bestowed by elder men rather than developed purely internally - this obviously runs counter to a highly individualistic outlook as well as to those who think gender doesn't matter in the raising of boys the notion of the "wild man" as a core part of masculine identity - the paramount importance of nature and wildness As for the drumming circles, I think that attracted humour an… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 25/08/20 12:48 AM |
| 3 | Great conversation on toxic masculinity and renegotiating gender identity in the modern world (Greg Ellis & Bret Weinstein)You're right that all of this seems to have happened before. As the saying goes, history doesn't exactly repeat but it does rhyme. Where do you think Robert Bly and the Mythopoetic Men's Movement went wrong? In their diagnosis of the problem, or their solutions / lack thereof? | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 24/08/20 11:20 PM |
| 3 | Great conversation on toxic masculinity and renegotiating gender identity in the modern world (Greg Ellis & Bret Weinstein)renegotiating gender identity, finding a middle way between traditionalism and post-modernist blank-slatism Just watched the video. What do you think this middle way consists of? Bret's answer seems to be creating conditions wherein men are "prone to behave more honourably because, frankly, it's the only path to a life worth living". He doesn't expound on any means by which those conditions can be created. It sounds like a solution relying on instilling values or morals into individuals, but, in… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 24/08/20 03:42 AM |
| 1 | Social Connections Challenge - What do you think?I agree with the reasons you give for why in-person contact is different from a Zoom chat. (I think maybe online games can bring something a little more if there's a sense of working together or building something up over time.) I'm in a part of the world where heavy restrictions have just been reinforced for a six well period. I hope that this time can make us more aware of the value of IRL human contact when it is more available, but I think the same barriers will still exist for a lot of men. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 22/08/20 12:46 PM |
| 4 | Social Connections Challenge - What do you think?In terms of online gaming, I'm not up with what serious gamers do, but: I recently started playing a simple online game (Trine) with my nephew over Nintendo Switch. I've also tried Tabletop Simulator with some board gaming friends in another country. I thought it was OK if you already know the board game, but didn't hold a candle to sitting at a table in real life. I've been involved with some Zoom sessions where we've played the JackBox party games (you participate via your phone). Those are pr… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 21/08/20 10:53 PM |
| 2 | (serious) do you have any questions about feminist theory?As has been discussed in another thread above, cultures pre-dating the spread of the Abrahamic faiths, such as India and China, still seem to show gender roles and division of labour that could be described as "patriarchal". I agree with others that the arrival of agriculture probably marked the beginning of much of the common appearance of hierarchy, gender roles and division of labour we see in Ancient texts, including the Bible. The apparent connection with the Bible may be because certain ea… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 21/08/20 06:23 AM |
| 3 | Superpredator: Now and Then.For people with a particular kind of academic background, or from particular fields, the debate over vocabulary can seem petty and a distraction. eg. for a Mathematician, an irrational number is simply a number that is not expressible as a ratio of two integers. They don't have to be concerned with what it means in public discourse. It's good be reminded that, when it comes to public discourse about cultural / social issues, language matters in ways beyond academic precision or succinctness. Wit… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 20/08/20 11:03 PM |
| 6 | (serious) do you have any questions about feminist theory?In your opinion, are there aspects of feminist thinking, theory or frameworks that are useful to the analysis and resolution of certain male advocacy issues? I mean beyond the basic premise that "patriarchy hurts men too". | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 20/08/20 04:57 AM |
| 1 | Unpopular opinion: the patriarchy exists and effects everyone. Men lose in custody battles because of the stereotype of a woman being the housewife and mothers? Men not getting recognized as victims because we just “man up”? All issues from our patriarchy and societal gender rolesReading through these comments, your post probably would have gone down better if you'd just talked about the system of gender roles we've inherited, rather than using outdated terminology like patriarchy. | /r/MensRights | 20/08/20 01:54 AM |
| 4 | Banned for suggesting that debate on social impact of porn should acknowledge gay pornThis comment is a bit off topic, but do you think that gay porn has the same elements that some consider problematic in straight porn? From what I can tell, it mirrors much of the content / situations, subgenres and fantasies. There's an amateur gay TV/YouTube series that ran for a few years - not porn but sort of "light raunchy" on the same level as those 80s screwball comedies. An interesting thing was that, though set in the US, it became really important for some men in strict Middle Eastern… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 19/08/20 05:07 AM |
| 5 | What do you actually expect of women?Thanks for your post. Just wanted to say that I'm really proud of most of the comments on this post for their breadth and thoughtfulness (and your thoughtful responses). I should say, comments so far because who knows with reddit! Personally, I'm not here because of any particular negative experiences with women or feminists, though my partner has had negative interactions with feminists in a previous workplace. I've observed men's movements since the 90s. While women have made a lot of strides … | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 19/08/20 12:41 AM |
| 3 | Being a feminine straight man can be roughThanks for sharing. That sounds really frustrating and difficult to navigate with your friends and family. I think the current hyper-awareness of sexual minorities can be a double-edged sword. So many men (and women, of course) have so little assurance of ourselves and where we belong, especially when it comes to gender roles and expression. In place of the old prejudices that we're so proud of leaving behind, we now have a greater variety of boxes into which we try to sort those who don't fit t… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 18/08/20 11:57 PM |
| 2 | Telling men "it's okay to cry" is just another way to tell men "man up"It's also never framed in the appropriate context and discussed who exactly is teaching boys not to cry (mothers) and is instead left implied that men are simply deciding not to out of the blue. Yes, good point. I think this is also connected with the assumption of men's hyperagency. Men have all the power so they must be doing it to themselves, and all that's needed is that they choose to change. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 18/08/20 11:42 PM |
| 1 | Women are responsible too for traditional gender roles and sexist stereotypes.However, it does say something about the current state of mainstream politics if a site as big as reddit banned r/incels, and keeps the r/FemaleDatingStrategy up. If I can give some advice, I would avoid that sub (FDS) like the plague. It's like constantly exposing yourself to poison so that you can be angry when it makes you feel sick. I agree it's unjust that some things are considered valid discussion while others aren't. We live in a time of outrage and backlash, and the tiles don't always f… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 18/08/20 11:30 PM |
| 1 | Telling men "it's okay to cry" is just another way to tell men "man up"If you needed both, wouldn't you be far more inclined to want both as opposed to just one or the other? But I'm mature enough (human enough?) to be able to distinguish needs, wants and desires and prioritise them. I'm able to recognise and placate the demands of my "lizard brain" while still choosing something else. I can perceive long term benefits in committed relationships, compromising and settling. Humans have made these choices for thousands of years (for better or worse), in clear contrad… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 18/08/20 01:48 AM |
| 0 | Telling men "it's okay to cry" is just another way to tell men "man up"You talk a lot here about basic drives and reproductive potential. I'm not denying that these are real. I just think reducing all our behaviours and motivations down like this is not getting a full picture of our humanity. For example: Having people with social power and influence favor you is a method of gathering said power for oneself. Who cares if they like or them as long as they can benefit from that relationship. Don't most guys enjoy hanging out with their friends because it's fun, and t… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 17/08/20 10:37 PM |
| 1 | Telling men "it's okay to cry" is just another way to tell men "man up"OK, but now you're talking about mental illness. I'm pretty sure a woman facing that sort of debilitating depression (not working, etc.) would also have trouble finding a mate, but if you're arguing that we now live in a world where women encourage eachother to dump a committed relationship because the guy develops depression, then that would be a huge moral indictment on women in general. Again, though, I don't think that is what people have in mind when they say, "it's OK to cry" or similar. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 17/08/20 10:21 PM |
| 1 | Telling men "it's okay to cry" is just another way to tell men "man up"Thanks for your reply. I agree that women need to change in this regard, but I think there's a key difference between what you wrote and the comment I replied to. My concern is the defeatism and tone of futility that seems to accompany the argument. One other thing: As you say, the arrival of women in previously male-dominated workplaces required change, acceptance from men. The workplace is a public arena. When people point to the improved wellbeing that can come from boys and men improving the… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 17/08/20 09:39 AM |
| 2 | Telling men "it's okay to cry" is just another way to tell men "man up"Men behave the way they do because of what women choose. Can I question this, because I hear it often around men's advocacy. Full disclosure: my orientation means I don't have to attract a woman to have a romantic relationship, but I think what I have to say based on observation is still valid. Here's what I've seen. The people driving men's behaviour are not just women, and certainly not just potential mates. Men often behave in ways geared to impress their friends, their parental figures (male… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 17/08/20 07:10 AM |
| 3 | Where can I find good articles about male loneliness without mentions of "toxic masculinity" ?OK, I found a few articles from an Australian context: This one gives some advice for men to avoid loneliness. It doesn't delve much into the kind of gender expectations I think you're referring to, but does talk about some of the reasons men's friendships often diminish, particularly as they get older. This one pointedly counters simplistic answers about the problem being just gender expectations. This one is a 50-min radio program. I haven't listened to it, sorry. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 17/08/20 04:00 AM |
| 5 | Where can I find good articles about male loneliness without mentions of "toxic masculinity" ?I notice that you made the same comment in another post and are having a conversation there. I'll just say that the term doesn't fly well with a lot of men, including a number of the male advocates on this sub. There are a number of reasons for this, but much of it comes to how the term (and the concept) is misused and how masculinity itself is so loosely understood in culture. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 17/08/20 03:53 AM |
| 6 | Where can I find good articles about male loneliness without mentions of "toxic masculinity" ?You may need to be more specific. Are you after articles with data / statistics on the issue? Articles on a society level or articles with personal advice? | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 16/08/20 07:28 AM |
| 4 | german male feminist admits it (when are you going to admit it too).I'm not a mod here, but I agree that there have been more posts about boy-girl relationships than usual recently. However, some of your past posts and comments (I'm sure I haven't seen them all) have come across as angry rants, often single sentences or less with no context or explanation. Can I give some advice that might help: Keep the focus on one specific topic, whether that's education, employment, perception of male advocates. If you want to bring in larger concepts like gynocentrism, conn… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 13/08/20 01:40 AM |
| 2 | The Male Perspective: On Men's Relationship with Violenceit became apparent that many men must have been suffering from the same and this..behavioural virus trickles down through the generations. Old thread, but this thought came up for me while reading an article about modern architecture. The writer made the point that the rise of brutalist, stark and deliberately alienating architecture, and the consequent abandonment of centuries-old traditional understanding of human-scale, comforting design, may have been caused by the unresolved trauma of men r… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 13/08/20 12:15 AM |
| 6 | Why is every show so woke?didacticism is not entertainment I think you hit the nail on the head there. The problem is not the appearance of women, sexual or racial minorities in entertainment. It's the lack of entertaining material beyond the 'educational' impact of their inclusion. We must be hitting the limits of this particular trend, though. Traditionally, entertainment had to appeal to a wide audience and sell, unless it was part of a politically sponsored enterprise (admittedly, this does apply to state-run service… | /r/MensRights | 12/08/20 11:46 PM |
| 3 | White feather icon in the subreddit headerI saw a quill when I first saw this icon, which I don't have a problem with anyway. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 12/08/20 11:00 PM |
| 1 | The Male Perspective: On Men's Relationship with ViolenceThat's an interesting angle. I think we go through periods of trust in "civilisation", institutions, etc. and periods of distrust. A lot can be built during periods of trust, but it's also easy for abuses to occur and we've seen this in politics and economics, and in secular and religious institutions with access to children, for example. For D&D people, it's the difference between Lawful Evil and Chaotic Evil. I think social critical theory, like a lot of post-modern thinking, acts like dissolv… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 12/08/20 10:50 PM |
| 2 | Toxic MasculinityHarmful gendered expectations for men Unhealthy gender expectations for men Toxic gender expectations for men Harmful gender roles for men The "man box" | /r/MensRights | 12/08/20 05:07 AM |
| 12 | The Male Perspective: On Men's Relationship with ViolenceThanks for posting this. I too think there's value in posts and discussions where we don't need to bring in women or feminism, whether as counterpoints or scapegoats. I like your reference to intergenerational trauma. It's something I only recently began to understand in the context of the continuing sufferings and difficulties of indigenous people in my own country. I truly believe overcoming this takes so much more time than we often think (which is, of course, not an excuse to give up the fig… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 12/08/20 04:50 AM |
| 1 | Two teenage boys drown helping to save a little girl. Is this that toxic masculinity I keep hearing about?Yes, it's a toxic gendered expectation affecting men. TM is just terrible vocabulary. | /r/MensRights | 11/08/20 10:42 PM |
| 1 | There is an account on Instagram (who's name I've blanked out) who is making sexist posts against men. Claiming such things as: women can't be racist, men's sexual preferences are prejudiced and fitness culture is discriminatory towards women and anybody who does not identify as male.When a non male identifying person is prejudiced, it's doubleplusbad, not sexist. | /r/MensRights | 11/08/20 10:37 PM |
| 9 | What do you think about "political correctness" and Men's Rights/Equality ?The term is used so broadly it can refer to anything from simple respect for differences to nonsensical cowtowing. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 11/08/20 11:22 AM |
| 12 | Bias Against Men and Boys in Mental Health ResearchI'm sorry to hear you've had such a shitty experience of opening up to those around you. If you really feel like you can't talk to anyone but you still need to, there's always the option of a therapist or counselor. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 11/08/20 11:18 AM |
| 4 | Change the Sexual Offences Act so women can be charged with rape against malesThe government response could have taken the time to briefly summarise the arguments for why "there was a considerable amount of agreement that rape should remain an offence of penile penetration", or at least provide a link to the relevant records, since that's the main point of the petition. The act they reference is now nearly 20 years old. However, it is good to see some of the changes taking place in terms of service provision and more men coming forward. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 11/08/20 05:40 AM |
| 10 | The white feather should be reclaimed as a masculist symbolThe male equivalent there would be more like burning a necktie. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 09/08/20 08:01 AM |
| 8 | The white feather should be reclaimed as a masculist symbolAnother way to look at it is it gives them a reason to look up something that connects very directly with men's advocacy and the gendered expectations that fall on men. I'm not sure there's much reconceptualising going on, just taking ownership of a symbol that was once used as a negative marker. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 09/08/20 03:47 AM |
| 19 | Do you think men will (or have) fall(en) behind women over the next 50 years, from an economic and status perspective?Not to sound too bleak but I think if present economic and tech trends continue (even before COVID) most developed nations will be poorer by today's standards, with greater wealth disparity. Class differences will be much more pronounced than male vs. female. Sweeping economic changes may offset that decline for a while, but the effects of resource limits and climate change will act as a major drag on everything. Having said that, I think current educational outcomes suggest women will be overal… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 07/08/20 06:06 AM |
| 3 | Jacqui Watt, CEO of major Australian domestic violence service 'No to Violence', says most men present with a 'victim mindset' and have put themselves in that position.She does acknowledge the reality of reciprocal violence, and hopefully she applies the same determination to discover nuance and balance when female victims present. But this is not how family violence is publicly portrayed in Australia. Instead, we're beaten over the head repeatedly with a single-sided story of men as perpetrators and women as victims, along with demands of "What are you 'good' men going to do about it?". See, eg. this article printed today in a major newspaper. These types of … | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 07/08/20 01:27 AM |
| 4 | What differentiates masculinity from femininity?I think people are perfectly entitled to take the view that there is no difference or to be gender abolitionists. But I don't think you'd find most people (outside of a particular framework for understanding gender that is popular in subs like menslib) agreeing that there is no difference or that the terms are meaningless. Trans people fit into the discussion too, but I don't know enough to be able to speak on their behalf. If it's just a semantic discussion, then look up the Wikipedia definitio… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 06/08/20 01:53 AM |
| 1 | Blaming men for men's issues.LPS? Sorry, I probably should know the acronym but I googled it and my browser exploded with Little Pet Shop. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 06/08/20 01:32 AM |
| 2 | The Sad Truth About Men's Mental Health...Yes, true. The word "reactionary" is often misused, but sometimes I think it applies to these guys. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 05/08/20 11:13 PM |
| 4 | Gillette ‘Shifting The Spotlight’ After Losing $8 Billion Amid ‘Toxic Masculinity’ BacklashOld article, as pointed out. Looking back though, I remember seeing some of the actual men being highlighted in the subsequent videos on their Facebook page. These would appear each week for several weeks, and there were some fantastic examples of men doing great stuff - mental health work, community organisations, etc. Gillette is also a sponsor of the Movember charity, a charity I support. If only they'd used those positive videos instead of trying to capitalise on the negative spirit of that … | /r/MensRights | 05/08/20 11:00 PM |
| 1 | Blaming men for men's issues.Yeah, it's been well documented that the buffoon husband stereotype began around the early 90s as a comic rebellion against the "perfect dad" in the previous generation of sitcoms. A bit like the bitter, gritty versions of once-sincere superhero media. The joke has surely begun to run out its course by now, 30 years later. I notice dads are portrayed quite positively in some children's cartoons today so maybe that will flow up. I'm more concerned about the perception among boys of men committing… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 05/08/20 10:49 PM |
| 1 | Blaming men for men's issues.That's an interesting question. I guess that's a kind of negative role modeling. Would you say there's more negative male role models now than 20/30/40 years ago (fictional and non)? | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 05/08/20 10:07 PM |
| 6 | "The Year of Hollywood Blockbuster Female-Led Action Movies! Our Time Is Now!"It's the didactic nature of so many of these female-led films / TV shows that makes them so lame. People are quite good at detecting when they're being preached to or given a lesson. It reminds me of "Christian" movies or the huge number of gay movies from the 90s and 00s about coming out. fashionable since the 80s, and yet this kind of talk makes it seem like it's only now female-led films are getting recognition It's something I'm noticing more and more as I get older - how so many movements a… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 05/08/20 05:01 AM |
| 18 | Blaming men for men's issues.In short, it's attributing the actions or status of the most visible / high status segment of a population to the entire population. For most of written history, men have been in top political and military positions. This does not necessarily mean that those men represented the interests of the rest of the male population, or that those men always enacted policies or decisions whose priority was to benefit the male gender overall. This is easily seen by bringing race into the picture, for exampl… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 05/08/20 03:41 AM |
| 8 | Half of Generation Z men ‘think feminism has gone too far’gen z boys mad they cant oppress women like their fathers could If you think most boys think that way, you're deluded. Most boys have no idea what their fathers could/couldn't do. Many of them don't have fathers to start with. They aren't interested in oppressing anyone, just surviving adolescence like girls are. Now, if you'd said that many boys aren't old enough yet to see and understand the particular privileges and disadvantages that fall on them for being male vs. the particular privileges … | /r/MensRights | 05/08/20 03:22 AM |
| 6 | The Sad Truth About Men's Mental Health...Positives: Shows that it's possible to talk about societal norms and gender roles that affect men without using certain triggering buzzwords. Polite but unapologetic about saying that his topic is men's mental health, and other people can talk about women. Seems to have a genuine heart for men. Shares his own struggle with anxiety. Encourages perseverance for men who are at first rejected or dismissed when seeking help. Negatives: Wanders a bit in the second half. Not much else, but I've been pu… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 05/08/20 03:07 AM |
| 58 | Blaming men for men's issues.I think the Apex Fallacy is still one of the biggest blind spots for people when talking about the source of gender roles or "patriarchy". Dismissing men's issues with "men made the rules" or "most CEOs / leaders are men" shows a lack of basic social/political understanding and Systems Thinking. Similarly, I've seen people respond to issues of male victims of violence with "but most of the perpetrators are men" as if that solves the issue or makes it OK somehow. It's an extremely shallow thought… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 05/08/20 12:09 AM |
| 7 | Blaming men for men's issues.Thanks for your insights and life experience. Have you seen any hopeful shift in the area of men as fathers and interacting in settings with children generally? As a high school teacher, I saw a few of my male students go on to pursue a career in primary (elementary) school teaching, but I know it's rare and still becoming rarer each year in my country (Australia). | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 05/08/20 12:01 AM |
| 2 | Women are responsible too for traditional gender roles and sexist stereotypes.the average Joe - and female equivalent Jane maybe? Not sure. I agree that feminism and feminist thinking is affecting the lives of everyday people today, mixed with other topics that are often grouped under Identity Politics. When you say that it's making people's lives infantile, I assume you mean that it is causing some people to behave like perpetual victims and to refuse to accept responsibility for their lives, or for their own participation in unjust systems. I would agree with that. But … | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 04/08/20 11:53 PM |
| 2 | I am becoming less left wing as time goes on. How can I fix this?I didn't say the viewpoint itself is nihilistic. I do think it is unnecessarily limiting to make biological procreation one's ontology. Biology and evolution by themselves give us no reason to think that "purpose" is even a thing. Without any other context, it can be argued that evolution is largely directionless and has zero purpose, eg. What was the purpose of the dinosaurs if they're all gone now? | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 04/08/20 01:33 AM |
| 1 | I am becoming less left wing as time goes on. How can I fix this?OK, but I just want to take that logic to its conclusion. It means you have to believe that childless people, people with adopted children or foster parents are actually doomed in the nihilistic sense, purposeless and in denial, no matter how purposeful they believe their lives are, since they are missing something you believe everyone needs to have purpose. In contrast, someone who is otherwise the same but happens to have biological offspring has real purpose. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 04/08/20 01:11 AM |
| 2 | BBC News piece: "Manhood Academy: Turning boys into men" Other than athletes & rappers, young men don't have enough positive male role models. At his 'Manhood Academy' in North London, Williams and several other black male mentors take on the paternal and fraternal role they feel young men r missingAnother member of this sub posted about male initiation rites recently, and I was quick to pooh-pooh it on the grounds that those traditional rites only worked when embedded in a very strong, cohesive community structure that is long gone in developed nations. I'm willing to reconsider this, but I'll note that there's an obvious ethnic and/or racial perspective for the program in the video and its target demographic, so I'd be careful about generalising this out to all boys and whether it would … | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 04/08/20 12:29 AM |
| 1 | I am becoming less left wing as time goes on. How can I fix this?I'm not trying to pick on you here, but above you say that anything beyond biology is a delusion, then below you acknowledge that it is ridiculous to see your value and purpose only in biological procreation. This might be an occasion to ask what do you really want? What makes you feel alive and connected? If you don't trust culture or society to tell you this, what does your will tell you? Even if you are only considering biology as "real" success, isn't there evidence that we are wired to beha… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 04/08/20 12:20 AM |
| 2 | I am becoming less left wing as time goes on. How can I fix this?The purpose of my life has been unfulfilled. Can we challenge this a bit? Do you think having biological children is the only purpose of your life? Many men don't, or can't, ever have children. If you feel like making your mark on the next generation is important, maybe there are ways that you can do this that help you feel a sense of purpose, whether or not you ever end up having your own biological kids. eg. through educational work or volunteering, a sport or recreational activity, a religiou… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 03/08/20 10:58 PM |
| 1 | Our cultural perception of HerosThere's no need to "assume" anything Apologies if my tone sounded combative. I used that word in an analytical sense, not to impute rightness or wrongness to the situation. Women don't do it now despite all the STEM quotas and they're not even dangerous jobs, all the dangerous jobs are still done by Men and this will forever be the case because Men are wired to be risk takers whereas women are wired to be risk averse. As I understand it, women are more represented in STEM fields in developing or… | /r/MensRights | 02/08/20 11:12 PM |
| 1 | Ah men’s issues being ignored is as usual men’s fault. Well done feminists, well done.It may be oversimplifying to bring it all down to biology, but I think that was a contributor to the gender roles you're talking about | /r/MensRights | 31/07/20 09:52 PM |
| 1 | Ah men’s issues being ignored is as usual men’s fault. Well done feminists, well done.Absolutely, very well put. It's also possible that the kind of reform needed may not be possible at this point. | /r/MensRights | 31/07/20 12:02 PM |
| 3 | I tried a social experimentMy comment was about looking for potential solutions rather than dwelling on problems. Certainly remaining single could be a potential solution, if it really works for you. I'm not a psychologist, but I don't think it is a long term solution for most people, especially if they want a well-rounded emotional life. But history is full of amazing accomplishments from bachelors and spinsters. Below is some of my take on your post, just take it with a grain of salt because I have a long term relations… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 30/07/20 02:32 AM |
| 7 | I tried a social experimentIf we assume your experience is borne out by statistics, what do you think is the solution or mitigation to this problem of unequal experiences in dating? I'm guessing past societies had less of this problem because they had: more clear (and culturally enforced) dating and courtship procedures, more cultural, legal and economic enforcement of monogamy, no internet dating apps. Of those three, the condition of no. 2 is probably not coming back. No. 1 is probably not coming back in the same way wh… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 30/07/20 12:27 AM |
| 1 | Our cultural perception of HerosSo, if I'm reading your arguments correctly, you see only two possible outcomes or forms for modern society. The first is that we find or rediscover how men as a group can be extrinsically or intrinsically motivated to: continue to do the bulk of the dangerous jobs and "heavy lifting" of the kind your describe (we assume here that women as a group cannot or will not take up a share of this), constitute a military force, should it be required (we assume here that women as a group cannot or will n… | /r/MensRights | 29/07/20 11:23 PM |
| 3 | I have criticisms with the "male gaze". It is valid but it happens to name to.As far as the gazes go, I think there's a balance there. Everyone should be able to enjoy the beauty of a beautiful form, but there's also a point where it's cheap and leering. I think our current culture has some messed up ideas about Beauty in general. We have commodified it, as we have many things. With the superhero thing, I've always thought that everyone's in on the ridiculousness of it. As you say, even the scientists are drawn with overdeveloped anatomy. I'd hate to have grown up with sh… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 29/07/20 11:28 AM |
| 1 | “Gender equality” group says male victims of sexual assault suffer in silence because of toxic masculinityThanks for your friendly conversation too. I'm not totally disheartened about everything - eg. it's pleasing to see the way men's health (particularly mental health) is receiving more attention these days. | /r/MensRights | 29/07/20 11:12 AM |
| 1 | Our cultural perception of HerosHave to sleep but will reply soon. I think there's a whole lot of different arguments in your reply that could be looked at separately. | /r/MensRights | 29/07/20 10:20 AM |
| 1 | “Gender equality” group says male victims of sexual assault suffer in silence because of toxic masculinityI've mentioned further up the thread that I think it's the popularisation of the term TM that has done the most damage, rather than the academic use of it. One of the problems is placing the word "toxic" before "masculinity", a word that is heavily loaded with identity, and understood in a number of different, sometimes vague, ways. I don't want to prolong the vocabulary conversation, but here's something I've said earlier: "For a man who is subject to restrictive gender expectations, who has be… | /r/MensRights | 29/07/20 10:19 AM |
| 2 | “Gender equality” group says male victims of sexual assault suffer in silence because of toxic masculinityI do need to know where you stand of a few issues. It's unclear in your post wether you defend the idea behind the use of the term toxic masculinity and it's continued use in current vernacular. Well, I can clarify that for you now. I don't like the term TM. I'm fully aware of its origins and academic meaning. I think there are many better terms. I don't see how it can be so important to recognise the genealogy of vocabulary or "complete the conversation" if it means alienating the very people m… | /r/MensRights | 29/07/20 08:01 AM |
| 2 | “Gender equality” group says male victims of sexual assault suffer in silence because of toxic masculinityI don't feel that I'm doing any of the things you accuse me of here. My comment you replied to explicitly acknowledges a heap of work feminists have done. lets us forget that men in culturally powerful positions were the ones that put them there. Of course both men and women have generated and policed (in many cases continue to) unhealthy gender expectations for men. Do you want me to add a "Copyright Feminism" after that? Y'all can call it whatever you want if it would stop your complaining abo… | /r/MensRights | 29/07/20 06:38 AM |
| 2 | Our cultural perception of HerosFeminists think that they're taking "Power" from Men but all they're doing is ensuring that Men no longer care about Society or Chivalry. Are you saying that the only way to make men care about society is to go back to "worshipping Masculinity" as you put it? Or do you think a new equilibrium could develop where men are just no longer expected to sacrifice in the unreasonable way they were? | /r/MensRights | 29/07/20 03:13 AM |
| 3 | “Gender equality” group says male victims of sexual assault suffer in silence because of toxic masculinityIn my experience, most defenders of the term TM readily agree that Toxic Femininity also exists. They will point out (correctly) that feminists have spent a century picking apart problems with society's expectations and roles for women, along the way attracting the offence of women (and men) who held more traditional views of women's roles. Their narrative is one of slow, hard fought change. Over time, people came around and now those traditional roles are less common and certainly less respecte… | /r/MensRights | 29/07/20 02:17 AM |
| 2 | “Gender equality” group says male victims of sexual assault suffer in silence because of toxic masculinityI've been trying to find the answer to that question for the last year in polite exchanges with feminists and non-feminists on reddit. Unlike the feminist term Hegemonic Masculinity, Toxic Masculinity has more rhetorical power and seems more "direct". Some well-meaning feminists really think that the use of the term will encourage men as a group to rise up, to name what is victimising them and change society somehow. I'm talking here about people who continue to use and defend TM as a term accor… | /r/MensRights | 28/07/20 11:18 PM |
| 1 | Women are responsible too for traditional gender roles and sexist stereotypes.What's your point? Look I'm just offering some perspective to your statement that "feminism is the modern culture". How can this be so if fewer than 1 in 5 young women (and almost certainly fewer men) call themselves a feminist, even if that small number is the result of slight growth over the previous 5 years. they have no influence on a day-to-day life of a person living in the first world country We may just have to disagree here, but that's not how culture works. "Modern" values are an amalg… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 28/07/20 10:41 PM |
| 34 | Fempathy: a characteristic of women who only care about men's problems when they negatively affect womenCall out this habit directly when you do any kind of awareness or fund raising for men's health and other issues, such as through Movember. Don't necessarily make it the main message, but add it to a list of "things you can do". eg. "no. 5: Recognise men and men's work as a good for its own sake. Resist the common urge to see solving men's problems as a means to making things better for women and children." | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 28/07/20 06:06 AM |
| 8 | Cultural misandry.I agree that it's not necessarily oppression by itself. You could argue that the exploitative way prisoners are treated and unnecessarily high incarceration rates, particularly in some nations, is permitted to continue because the vast majority of prisoners are men (race is a factor here too). A similar argument could be made about workplace health and safety in certain occupations. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 28/07/20 03:21 AM |
| 1 | Take care of your homies, OK?I think the fact that you are concerned and aware is a good thing. I think what many men experience as negative response comes in a number of ways: The awkward pull-back. Many people (men and women) are so unaccustomed to seeing a man (or a boy) break down or become vulnerable that they withdraw or stay silent. They may also be disturbed to see instability in someone they had assumed was rock-solid, rather like finding cracks in a wall that you've come to depend on. Or they may just have toxic e… | /r/MensRights | 28/07/20 03:07 AM |
| 1 | Take care of your homies, OK?I think a big part of this is because most people who call themselves MRAs go mental when you mention the term toxic masculinity. And yet, judging by the posts on this sub, I would say most MRAs are well aware that society imposes unhealthy and restrictive gender roles and expectations on men. They already have some of their own terminology to describe some of this, eg. male disposability. I'll accept that some MRAs attribute more blame than is required to feminists and feminism. we'd be retre… | /r/MensRights | 26/07/20 10:34 PM |
| 2 | Take care of your homies, OK?Have to go to bed but will reply in the morning. | /r/MensRights | 26/07/20 12:25 PM |
| 1 | Take care of your homies, OK?"Well in actual fact, they've given us the tools we need to understand and solve men's issues" I'd correct that by saying some tools, otherwise the problems would have been solved already. Feminism doesn't get to own men's issues, and even if it did, how does repeatedly demanding people on this sub use a term that they find offensive and wrong (even if you don't) win them over in any way? Having a term that's not prone to intentional and unintentional misuse is hardly obfuscation. | /r/MensRights | 26/07/20 12:01 PM |
| 13 | Very interesting POV : men have always showed their feelings, but it's not accepted as valid feelings to be displayedNot to invalidate your experience, but what you've shown is that there is a difference between learning to first identity and then regulate your emotions, vs. just disregarding or suppressing them. | /r/MensRights | 26/07/20 11:22 AM |
| 1 | Take care of your homies, OK?Why is it so important to you that feminist terminology like TM is used? How does it make actionable change any different? And before you ask, yes, I know what it means academically. | /r/MensRights | 26/07/20 11:15 AM |
| 3 | "Man up and take it: Gender bias in moral typecasting" - A scientific study on gender bias in harm perception.I think this will be promptly slotted into the feminist framework of patriarchy. Of course men are more likely to be perceived that way since they are historically the oppressors. The question is whether the resolution of this issue is seen as a goal in itself or a pleasant side-effect of bringing down patriarchy. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 24/07/20 01:14 AM |
| 1 | Why feminists should stop using terms like "fragile masculinity"we male issues advocates must have a term that conversationally describes Must we really, though? You do face-to-face work, so I don't have that experience but: "to-xic mas-cu-li-ni-ty" = 7 syllables "un-heal-thy male gen-der roles" = 8 syllables (same as restrictive or prescriptive) I'd even be happy with "toxic male gender roles" (down to 7). I imagine you could even leave out the "male" once the conversation is going around men and masculinity. We do have long terms that we're unwilling to ma… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 23/07/20 01:59 AM |
| 2 | Why feminists should stop using terms like "fragile masculinity"I think the latter is more likely to be used as an attack on an individual, while the former is more empathetic suggesting a cause rather than a fault. People are inclined to sympathise with someone in precarious employment, but not with someone who has a brittle personality. Personally, I think "manhood" as a word has connotations and other problems. I would stick with prescriptive/restrictive male gender roles. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 22/07/20 11:18 PM |
| 3 | Something vitally missing from our culture - initiations into manhood.Thanks for this post - this is something I have spent years thinking about. It was sometimes suggested by the men's movements in the 80s and 90s. Sadly, while the idea has a lot of appeal to me, there are two main reasons I can't see it happening, at least not in the near future. As you've noted, these rituals historically took place in communities with a high level of communality, where the whole ritual could be safely controlled and regulated. A little like how certain indigenous cultures had … | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 22/07/20 11:03 PM |
| 9 | Why has the cultural phenomenon of "Karens" not sparked a larger discussion about female entitlement? Why do I still only hear about male entitlement?as much a freeze of free expression on women as "mansplaining" does on men Yes, thankyou for this. I'm very uncomfortable with the Karen thing and would hate it to be used on me to dismiss legitimate concerns. I feel the same about OK Boomer, though I'm not in that demographic either. a form of toxic femininity wherein the woman uses her bf or husband to do the 'dirty work' for her, such as insulting others or being violent This behaviour has a well-known archetype in Lady Macbeth. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 22/07/20 01:08 AM |
| 12 | Gender Roles Seem to Have Flipped. Is Anyone Else Concerned?I think there's a few things going on here. I'm going to talk in generalities, because obviously there are exceptions. In general, work has changed in the last few decades. It has become more precarious, less positively social. In some countries, like the US, wages are such that many are obliged to work multiple jobs. There's a difference between being asked what you would choose to do and what society expects you do. Also, are they being asked for a permanent arrangement or just a chapter of th… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 21/07/20 08:25 AM |
| 1 | Why feminists should stop using terms like "fragile masculinity"I'd just nuance by saying there are cultural variations on what is, or is not, placed in this category, it varies by age / social status, and even by the friendship group you happen to have. There's a lot of discussion about when "gay" became a synonym for "unmanly" but it sure sucks for boys and men who are actually gay. To your original point, I get your theoretical connection between fragile and restrictive masculinity, but I think the term is more often misused the way male privilege is: to … | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 21/07/20 06:40 AM |
| 4 | Why feminists should stop using terms like "fragile masculinity"To me, critiquing the terms seems to function as a round-about way of broaching conversations about the concepts themselves, whether and why people agree with those concepts, and to what extent. I think discussion of concepts like precarious/performative masculinity is an important facet of this kind of movement. Also, I think male advocates overall are becoming less inclined towards the most deliberate and extreme bad-faith uses of some terms, so I think these discussions help that. Having said… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 21/07/20 05:26 AM |
| 4 | [long post] A response to the suggestion of "Abolish Gender Roles" that is often repeated in Vaush/menslib type areas.Methengylf didn't say "mastery over emotions". They said "emotionless". I actually think there's a third avenue here. I think maybe some of our current gender roles for men are more harmful today because they have survived but the historical support structures they were once part of, that gave them appropriate context, have not. For example, we have reason to believe that many men in Western culture a few generations ago were more open in their affection with friends (verbal and physical) than t… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 19/07/20 04:29 AM |
| 2 | [long post] A response to the suggestion of "Abolish Gender Roles" that is often repeated in Vaush/menslib type areas.I agree this is an important perspective, particularly for this sub. Men's advocates are often accused of not doing anything in the "real world". I think that, while discussions about gender and vocabulary are important, they have to be balanced by looking at these external realities. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 19/07/20 04:15 AM |
| 3 | MensLib shut down this topic, but I think good discussion was going on, feel free to continue here.We will have to disagree about the near universality of opinion you seem to think exists when it comes to defining masculinity. I think it is very ill-defined, even notoriously so. Many people have a notion of masculinity as vaguely equivalent to maleness. When I say that people have invested their identity in masculinity, I mean that it is a word with strong emotional connections to self-worth for many men. This is one reason why I think the term TM evokes strong reactions and also one reason w… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 18/07/20 06:56 AM |
| 10 | MensLib shut down this topic, but I think good discussion was going on, feel free to continue here.academically speaking there's no reason to substitute them with more neutral, albeit less accurate, euphemisms I agree, academically speaking. If Dr. A wants to write a paper to be peer reviewed by Prof. B, where both are perfectly objective, detached, and familiar with a particular sociological and psychological definition of masculinity, go ahead. I have no problem with that. Reddit is not academia, and neither is most of the Internet. I totally disagree with you when you say that "whenever th… | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 17/07/20 07:53 AM |
| 2 | MensLib shut down this topic, but I think good discussion was going on, feel free to continue here.The mythopoetic men's movements of the 80s and 90s had in mind a mythical deep/genuine masculinity against which toxic masculinity implied an unhealthy counterfeit identity for manhood, rather like how teenage gangs might be seen as a substitute for "proper" adult male role modelling. After those movements fizzled out, the concept of an ideal masculinity also fell out of favour, with multiple Masculinities now more in vogue. Feminists kept the term TM, but it wasn't popularised until recently. | /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates | 17/07/20 06:53 AM |
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