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Egalitarian feminist opposes quotas for women in STEM fields

PostPatriarchalMan

May 1, 2012

0 upvotes

/r/MensRights

http://www.iwf.org/news/2786924/Science-subtext:-Gender-parity

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Title	Egalitarian feminist opposes quotas for women in STEM fields
Author	PostPatriarchalMan
Upvotes	0
Comments	14
Date	May 1, 2012 5:33 PM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/t1roo/egalitarian_feminist_opposes_quotas_for_women_in/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/egalitarian-feminist-opposes-quotas-for-women-in.1022773 https://theredarchive.com/post/1022773

Comments

[–]leprendun -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]TracyMorganFreeman 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]leprendun 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]TracyMorganFreeman 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Yes, but most research suggests that men do better, on average, at math due to social and cultural reasons rather than an innate biological one

No it doesn't. Research indicates the statistical differences in boys and girls gets larger after the onset of puberty, and even today with girls taking as many or more math classes as boys, boys do better on average and are overrepresented in the extremes.

Besides, boys and girls do learn differently. Today school curricula are geared more towards girl strengths' and away from boys', and boys still outperform them at the higher levels.

I find it really weird nobody makes the same claim that women are better at language due to socialization, and everyone accepts that women are better at it due to biology, but far more scrutiny is visited upon math. It's almost as if people want to assume female advantages are due to biology, but any male advantage must be socialized.

[–]leprendun 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]TracyMorganFreeman 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]leprendun 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Sorry, I must have automatic access to the articles:

Gender, culture, and mathematics performance

Janet S. Hydea,1 and Janet E. Mertzb

Abstract

Using contemporary data from the U.S. and other nations, we address 3 questions: Do gender differences in mathematics performance exist in the general population? Do gender differences exist among the mathematically talented? Do females exist who possess profound mathematical talent? In regard to the first question, contemporary data indicate that girls in the U.S. have reached parity with boys in mathematics performance, a pattern that is found in some other nations as well. Focusing on the second question, studies find more males than females scoring above the 95th or 99th percentile, but this gender gap has significantly narrowed over time in the U.S. and is not found among some ethnic groups and in some nations. Furthermore, data from several studies indicate that greater male variability with respect to mathematics is not ubiquitous. Rather, its presence correlates with several measures of gender inequality. Thus, it is largely an artifact of changeable sociocultural factors, not immutable, innate biological differences between the sexes. Responding to the third question, we document the existence of females who possess profound mathematical talent. Finally, we review mounting evidence that both the magnitude of mean math gender differences and the frequency of identification of gifted and profoundly gifted females significantly correlate with sociocultural factors, including measures of gender equality across nations.

The Genetic and Environmental Etiology of High Math Performance in 10-Year-Old Twins

Stephen A. Petrill, Yulia Kovas, Sara A. Hart, Lee A. Thompson and Robert Plomin

The genetic and environmental etiology of high math performance (at or above the 85%tile) was examined in a population-based sample of 10-year-old twins (nMZ = 1,279, nDZ = 2,305). Math skills were assessed using a web-based battery of math performance tapping skills related to the UK National Math Curriculum. Probandwise concordance rates and liability threshold models indicated that genetic and shared environmental influences were significant, and that these estimates were generally similar to those obtained across the normal range of ability and did not vary significantly by gender. These results suggest that the genetic and environmental influences at the high end of ability are likely to be continuous with those that affect the entire range of math performance across all children irrespective of gender.

Gender and Academic Abilities and Preferences Heather A. Priess and Janet Shibley Hyde

(From the article): Finally, this meta-analysis indicated that the magnitude of gender differences was shrinking. In studies prior to 1974 (the year in which Maccoby and Jacklin’s groundbreaking book was published), d = 0.31, whereas studies published after this date showed an effect size of 0.14. More recently, Hyde and colleagues (2008) analyzed mathematics performance data drawn from now-mandated assessments in the United States and reported an effect size of 0.0065, which indicates that there was essentially no gender difference in mean mathematics performance. Although test content may have changed somewhat over time, there is nonetheless strong evidence that the gender difference in mean mathematics performance has been lessening over time. Furthermore, international studies indicate that the magnitude of gender differences varies substantially by nation. Although cross-national data reveal a tendency toward small gender differences with higher mathematics scores by boys and men, the nations with the greatest gender equality now exhibit no gender differences or gender differences that indicate higher scores by girls and women (Guiso et al., 2008).

[–]TracyMorganFreeman 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

If you're going to compile data from different countries, you have to account for the different teaching metholodogies and curricula by which they're measured.

The 3rd one especially is problematic in that that statistical deviance is from averaging all performances over all levels, so arithmetic is weighed equally to calculus.

Math standards in the UK as I understand it have been lowered at each level compared to 20-30 years ago, so that will also create a larger average and mask any potential difference in ability.

In essence, the combination of not accounting for distribution among different math disciplines, lowering standards, and gearing curricula towards girls learning strengths(which also holds boys back), is creating the artifact of parity.

That doesn't mean there necessarily isn't parity, but the system is gamed in favor of girls, and the statistics tracking is gamed to remove any advantage boys have at the higher levels.

Again, why do we not question the language ability of girls being higher than boys? Why is it a taboo to say boys are on average better at math but not to say girls are better at language?

[–]leprendun 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]leprendun 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]NiceGuysSTFU 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The Independent Women's Forum (IWF) is an American conservative,[6][7][8][9][10][11] non-profit, non-partisan research and educational institution focused on domestic and foreign policy issues of concern to women. In 2006, the group whose ideology is economic conservative, had 20,337 members and a budget of $1.05 million.[6]

The group advocates "equity feminism," a term first used[12] by IWF author Christina Hoff Sommers[2] to distinguish conservative feminism from what she refers to as "gender feminism," which she claims opposes gender roles as well as patriarchy.[13] According to Sommers, the gender feminist view is "the prevailing ideology among contemporary feminist philosophers and leaders"[13] and "thrives on the myth that American women are the oppressed 'second sex.'"[14] Sommers' equity feminism has been described as anti-feminist by critics.[15]

Who gets to define who is a feminist organization? The fact that the partisan feminists groups reject equity and egalitarian feminists as "anti-feminists" speaks well for the latter in my opinion.

[–]NiceGuysSTFU 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link