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Don't cut them!

memymineown

April 9, 2012

18 upvotes

/r/MensRights

http://www.mycircumcisiondisgrace.org/index.html

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Post Information

Title	Don't cut them!
Author	memymineown
Upvotes	18
Comments	12
Date	April 9, 2012 4:56 PM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/s10dv/dont_cut_them/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/dont-cut-them.1024381 https://theredarchive.com/post/1024381

Comments

[–]a_feyn_man -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]Eryemil 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago* (10 children) | Copy Link

Lets address these one at a time, shall we?

I like my genitals as they are: modified.

First of all, this is irrelevant. Your ego and cultural programming could not allow you to say anything else regardless of how severe the mutilation. Circumcised women, even those that have endured the most severe forms of MGM will often say the same thing and will use all sort of excuses to justify their belief that their genitals are just as functional, or even superior, to whole ones.

But as I said, the fact that you "like" the current state of your genitals is completely irrelevant. Your rights were violated as a child regardless of how you feel about it. Had you not embraced your culture's penchant for genital mutilation you would be unable to do anything about it—as a circumcised mean you have no choice but to live with the result of this amputation your parents chose to subject you to regardless of your feelings.

My risk of infection is reduced, my risk of injury is reduced, [...]

You sound very certain. What infection does the intact penis suffer from that would justify such radical preemptive removal of healthy tissue? It must be something truly terrible that could not be treated with antibiotics/antimycotics like we do for females—who happen to get genital infections quite a lot more often than men do.

What sort of potential injury would justify per-emptive amputation?

[...] and I've never run into any problems with it.

That you've noticed. Whatever you have, is normal to you and I have the feeling you haven't seen or interacted with may other penises first-hand.

It's also bit self-centered, like most of this post? Just because you are one of the lucky ones that might not have any problems doesn't mean that there aren't other men out there that are suffering due to what was done to them. Are you feelings more valid than theirs?

To put the argument on its ear, would there be any reason for me to add a prosthetic foreskin?

What reason would there be for women in ancient China to wear prosthetic shoes over their bound feet? Prosthetic are, for the most part, aesthetic. If your culture already accepts the mutilated body as normal then they don't serve much purpose.

If you had asked what benefits you might see from having a new foreskin grown out of stem-cells and grafted onto your penis, well that's something else altogether.

But all of this above is at best, tangential to the subject of the webpage in the OP. Did you even bother to read it is at all before you felt compelled to come in here and loudly defend the state of your genitals? A little boy had a piece of his penis cut off without the consent of his father and that website which you seemingly did not read is that father's attempt to cope with the grief and gain a measure of justice for his child.

[–]Equa1 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]Eryemil 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]a_feyn_man 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

As much as I tried to be clinical about it, you're the one who seems to have an emotional attachment to the subject; I ran into an immediate dissonance within an idea (that what was done to me was injurious, while I do not seem injured), and asked honestly. Somehow not sheepishly agreeing with you is seen as "loudly defending" my current state. As intelligent or as well-reasoned as your case may be, the fact that you are a condescending asshole makes me less than willing to inquire about the subject with you in particular. I asked to be educated and I was mocked.

If the goal of rights is egalitarianism, the irony is highly apparent in that you are very quick to judge and even more swift to decry.

You're not an educator, you're a prosyletizer. The sort of righteous indignation you seem so comfortable with is of the same strain as Fire & Brimstone Preacher.

So try again.

Tell me what I might gain. Tell me what I might have missed out on, other than an increased likelihood of smegma. Tell me, without being a total asshole what your case is. If you can be a human being, then I can too, and I will listen.

[–]Eryemil 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

If you can be a human being, then I can too, and I will listen.

Then please, start by reading the website above and try to empathize with the father's grief, at the very least. It pissed me off a great deal that the only comment you towards such a terrible incident was:

"I like my genitals as they are: modified."

As much as I tried to be clinical about it, you're the one who seems to have an emotional attachment to the subject.

Shouldn't I? You would too if you were in my place and we were discussing some other backwards, barbaric tradition that you deeply disapprove of. I don't think you realize the degree of self-control it takes to remain unemotional when confronted time and time again with a culture that normalizes something you would consider to be horrific child abuse.

Tell me what I might have missed out on, other than an increased likelihood of smegma.

It seems you already know what smegma is but are you aware that all mammals produce it? Not just humans and definitely not just men. In fact, women can produce a lot more of it we do due to the greater surface area of the folds of their genitals—such as under and around the clitoral hood and between the labia. It's also about as dangerous and unusual as snot and serves many of the same purposes.

As to what circumcision removes. [The only comprehensive study ever done on the subject](onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1464-410X.2006.06685.x/full) found that circumcision removes the most fine-touch sensitive parts of the penis, which goes well with studies that show that the foreskin is the only part of the genitals to contain Meissner's corpuscles, the mechanoreceptors with the lowest threshold for low-end vibrations.

Here are some graphs that better illustrate those findings:

There's also the fact that the penis has, more often than not, been an internal organ across all species that have them. The reason for this is obvious as it is both a critically important and delicate organ. In mammals, with our often more external equipment, one of the purposes the prepuce serves is to protect the fragile mucosa of the glans and inner foreskin. All mammals, save for monotremes have a foreskin regardless of how far removed from us or how far outside our bodies our penises are located. In fact, the whole of the outer skin of the human penis was in fact once a sheath that fused itself to the shaft as our penises grew in size and migrated outwards.

Mucous membranes such as those in the penis are poorly equipped to deal with the drying and damaging effect of being constantly exposed to air and friction. In circumcised men this leads to discoloration and a change in texture and even the thickness of the mucosa itself. Mucous membranes don't become calloused like regular skin but there is still significant keratinization which leads to a loss of sensitivity. This is a dramatic example but I think it gives you an idea of what I mean[NSFW] This is the reason why circumcised penises have the ashen, faded look that they do as opposed to being as glossy and pink as the inner eyelid or the inside of your cheek.

Finally, there's the mechanical function itself.[NSFW]

Not only did the foreskin evolve to protect the vulnerable parts of the penis, it also facilitates intercourse and masturbation and provide added stimulation. The way the foreskin moves during sex or while jacking off stimulates both the foreskin itself and the glans of the penis. It also reduces friction and helps to keep lubrication within the vagina/anus. If you look at it in from an engineering perspective, it is quite a beautiful mechanism.

I've picked up a staggering amount of information over the years of arguing with Americans about this crazy tradition. I've read pretty much all of the papers ever published on the subject and have quite a lot of first-hand experience with penises as well. So I would be happy to elaborate on any questions if you feel the above isn't detailed enough.

[–]a_feyn_man 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Eryemil 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

My volunteer work exposes me to a lot of animal cruelty, for example.

It's not nearly the same, is it? For once, animals are not people and I say that as a vegetarian. Secondly, animal cruelty (or at least what most people accept to be animal cruelty) is not as pervasive or socially sanctioned as male circumcision.

Do you think you'd feel differently if you were suddenly taken from this time and place and plopped in the middle of China a hundred years ago and had to live with the awareness that every girl around you would have to endure foot-binding?

How do you intend to act on this information?

What do you mean? Are you asking about what I do to fight against infant circumcision?

Besides relentlessly argue my case and hope I make a difference? Throughout the years I've convinced enough people not to perpetuate the practice upon their sons to make it worth it. I've also donated time and money to organizations that are trying to change things.

[–]a_feyn_man 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Eryemil 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]a_feyn_man1 point 14 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Eryemil1 point 14 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link