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Jerry Sandusky denies child sex abuse charges and pedophilia. Could be an example of demonization of male affection toward children.

thingsarebad

November 15, 2011

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http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Latest-News-Wires/2011/1115/Penn-State-scandal-Jerry-Sandusky-denies-child-sex-abuse-charges

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Title	Jerry Sandusky denies child sex abuse charges and pedophilia. Could be an example of demonization of male affection toward children.
Author	thingsarebad
Upvotes	0
Comments	13
Date	November 15, 2011 11:35 PM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/mdoq2/jerry_sandusky_denies_child_sex_abuse_charges_and/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/jerry-sandusky-denies-child-sex-abuse-charges-and.1031664 https://theredarchive.com/post/1031664

Comments

[+][deleted] 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

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[–]thingsarebad[S] 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

I'll admit I haven't read it. I remain skeptical when it comes to these things especially considering that "eyewitnesses" are prone to believing where there's smoke there's fire and thus being biased.

I don't see anything inherently wrong with giving gifts to children or sleeping with them. Honestly would anyone be up in arms about a woman sleeping with a child? No. But a man? Yes. It's pretty clear it's social conditioning that paints men as child abusers that's at fault for this perception.

Even showering with children, though frowned upon socially, is not necessary wrong. It's only in recent history that nudity has become so frowned upon.

There are a few possibilities. 1) Sandusky actually is a pedophile who has acted on it, 2) He is a pedophile who managed to resist abusing children but nevertheless still did some probably inappropriate things, 3) He isn't a pedophile at all but does have an abnormal predilection for being around children, like Michael Jackson or Octomom.

There is a huge difference between thinking children are cute and beautiful and having sexual desire for them.

Based on what you've said, to me it seems as if only the two eye-witnesses are talking about any actual transgressions, and I question their reliability. The rest is just evidence that Sandusky has an abnormal - but not necessarily wrong - affection for young boys.

So yeah, I still think it's possible this is just demonization of male affection.

No matter how unlikely it is, this still could just be a case of a witch hunt based on some flimsy allegations and Sandusky's abnormal affection for young boys which people mistook to be something else. We've seen manufactured testimony from children before in witch hunts. So I am going to have to remain skeptical.

edit: I added some more here. http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/mdoq2/jerry_sandusky_denies_child_sex_abuse_charges_and/c304556

Basically it's possible Sandusky is guilty but it's also quite possible he's innocent. Due to the misandry rampant in our society, it's really impossible for him to get a fair trial in court or in the media. Hopefully justice prevails, but there's no way of knowing.

[+][deleted] 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]thingsarebad[S] 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]LWRellim 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't see anything inherently wrong with giving gifts to children

If you are playing "Santa Claus" and giving gifts to 50 children in an orphanage... fine.

Giving EXPENSIVE gifts to kids you are "working with" in a program like Scouts or Big Brothers -- a definite NO (if you are feeling sorry for an underprivileged kid, for example and you want to do something like get him a bicycle or something of that nature, you do it THROUGH the kid's parent(s) {i.e. you make certain it is OK with the parents, you buy the bike, and give it to the parent(s) to give to the kid, with zero mention of your involvement -- that way everyone responsible is aware of what is going on and party to the decision, and the kid is not beholden to anyone they are not naturally already so}).

or sleeping with them.

That is a big definite NO WAY. Period. If they are NOT your kids, you do not do this (unless it is literally a matter of "life & death" -- i.e. you are out in the woods on some outback camping trip and some kid is suffering shock/hypothermia/frostbite and it is necessary for body warmth to save the kid's life).

Even showering with children, though frowned upon socially, is not necessary wrong. It's only in recent history that nudity has become so frowned upon.

Ah, but cultural context IS important.

Back when kids were USED to swimming/showering naked with a bunch of other guys (and sometimes men) at the YMCA this would have been no big deal (but then only as part of a GROUP) ... nowadays it is a big deal (and therefore a line that should NOT be crossed).

While the guy deserves his day in court, and should not be prosecuted in the media, it seems like there is little doubt in the matter, the evidence against him seems overwhelmingly substantive (remember most of the victims are no longer "kids" subject to manipulation, most of them are now adults).

What I wonder is (given the many other oddities that are being found -- like his attorney {age 49 at the time} getting a young teenage girl pregnant) whether this was just Sandusky, or whether he is only the "tip" of a very disgusting iceberg.

But the SAD thing is, whether this is a REAL case of a pedo being caught or not -- the end result is the same: yet more vilification of ALL men as being untrustworthy.

Then the WORSE thing about that, is that GOOD MEN (the kind who CAN be trusted around kids) -- will stay as far away from them as possible -- because, DAMN as sorry as you feel for kids w/o Dads and stuff... it just AIN'T worth the risk.

And what that means is that the chances the men who DO work with kids will have nefarious intent only increases.

[–]Taylorseim 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]thingsarebad[S] 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

You may be right, but see what I said here: http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/mdoq2/jerry_sandusky_denies_child_sex_abuse_charges_and/c3043c8

I also find it hard to believe that anyone would see a child being abused in such a way and fail to take it to the police themselves. How fucked up does someone have to be to do that? It doesn't make a whole lot of sense. It does, however, make more sense that they heard a lot of rumors about Sandusky, and perhaps were told that their was damning evidence against him, and so they convinced themselves they saw something.

Let me tell you, if I actually saw someone sucking a little kids dick or having anal sex with a kid, I'd put an end to it.

I'm looking at the grand jury report, and the guy who supposedly saw him fellating a child never reported it to the police and now suffers from dementia. The only testimony is from other people; it's hearsay, and doesn't seem to be from a reliable source. The guy could easily have imagined something in the shower that didn't actually happen.

Lots of contradiction between the graduate student's report and Curley and Schultz's too. Seems a little strange that someone would just leave while a child is supposedly getting anally violated. My guess is he didn't see that at all, but instead was worried by Sandusky and the child showering together. Similar to the last eye-witness, not really reliable.

I'm skimming the grand jury report some more and assuming the boys' testimony is true it is quite suspicious.

My guess would be Sandusky has some problems and is a weirdo kind of like Michael Jackson, never actually engaging in the sexual acts he will be tried for.

I wish that we lived in a society where Sandusky could actually get a fair trial rather than a witch hunt, but we don't. And that's because of the pedo-hysteria and demonization of male affection perpetuated by misandrist ideologues, which makes it basically impossible to know what actually happened.

[–]Taylorseim 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]thingsarebad[S] -5 points-4 points-3 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]LWRellim 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Taylorseim 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If the allegations are true, which I believe they are, Paterno absolutely did something wrong in the same way that they all did something wrong, he didn't go to the police the second that he could have. I think the graduate student messed up too, and I think that the only reason not to punish him is because if you do other people like him might not come forward. If the allegations are true everyone who knew but kept silent should serve time. If it goes particularly high up, for example to the Board of Trustees, I think the program should be shut down for at least the 2012 season, and possibly longer.

I don't want to live in a country where it's ok to cover up something like this and not have any serious consequences. If any other programs are hiding secrets like this I want them to be shitting their pants. The next time something like this happens I want the person who catches it in the act to think that the only chance he or she has of saving the program is to go the police first, and then to the head coach. Let's make it so that covering this sort of thing up is unthinkable. Let's make it so that covering up child rape in the US is not an option.

If that happens it will suck for the players, but honestly not that much. The ones that are good will find other programs that will take them, and give the ones that aren't picked up by anyone else a full ride. In the grand scheme of things losing a college football team for a year isn't a big deal.

Can we at least agree that if Sandusky is guilty that anyone who lied or kept quiet for him, especially those that are continuing to do so, should serve some time?

[–]LWRellim 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I also find it hard to believe that anyone would see a child being abused in such a way and fail to take it to the police themselves.

As I understand it, the guy was pretty young... and hoping for a career at Penn State (which he got) -- and this was one of the VIP coaches/former coaches.

Add in that it was probably a totally UNexpected encounter (i.e. this is not some guy who works with a youth group and had been through leadership training as to what to do in such a case).

How fucked up does someone have to be to do that?

Who knows what else goes on there.

Plus, I have seen a LOT of "cowed/obedient" attitudes by BIG football players -- even college age guys become like little cowering kids in the presence of "coaches" (who have almost God-like status on the campus and in the program).

Let me tell you, if I actually saw someone sucking a little kids dick or having anal sex with a kid, I'd put an end to it.

When you were in your 20's? If your job & future career depended on it? And it was one of "the bosses" you caught?

Seems a little strange that someone would just leave while a child is supposedly getting anally violated.

Seems also like he (and everyone involved) OUGHT to be a bit more concerned about the kids than they are... just about EVERYONE involved seems to be more concerned about themselves (and how people perceive THEM) rather than truly being concerned about the kids.

But I can tell you that THAT is how people DO in fact act around this kind of stuff -- they circle the wagons, look for someone to blame, and seek to cover their OWN asses... the very LAST thing people care about is the kid involved. (Alas, this is often true even of the kids' parents -- which is really sickening to see.)

[–]thingsarebad[S] -2 points-1 points0 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link