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A common fantasy for women is a rape fantasy: Women as creepy perverts in popular culture who are not held accountable.

[deleted]

January 22, 2011

0 upvotes

http://www.the-spearhead.com/2011/01/21/good-men-project-veering-off-course/#comment-65857

sharp:

I’m tired of hearing about how “perverted” men are. Let’s talk about women.

A common fantasy for women is a rape fantasy. Yell it from the rooftops.

You want to see dirty and perverse? Go to the website Lush Stories. It a site where anyone can post erotic stories. It’s dominated by women, and you can’t imagine the dirty shit they write about. Daddy fantasies anyone?

Oh, and they also post pictures and their ages on their profile pages, and many of them are middle aged perverts.

Thanks to feminism and female empowerment, women like Katy Perry, Lady Gaga, Rhianna, Christina Aguilera, Shakira, rap hoes, are the ones parading themselves around like dirty sluts. Men just watch in amusement really. Look at Justin Beiber, at least he seems like a clean cut kid. Unlike the horny little bastard called Miley Cyrus who can barely keep her clothes on.

It’s women who are degrading popular culture and turning it into a cesspool. Not men.

Now, honestly, I really don’t care what women like, or how perverted they are. To be honest, none of it bothers me. What bothers me is men always being called “creepy”, “perverted”, and other shaming words, when the real perverts are women. But of course they get away with it, because women are not held accountable for anything. Not for our culture, or their own behavior.

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Post Information

Title	A common fantasy for women is a rape fantasy: Women as creepy perverts in popular culture who are not held accountable.
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	0
Comments	23
Date	January 22, 2011 6:24 AM UTC (15 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/f6xmb/a_common_fantasy_for_women_is_a_rape_fantasy/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/a-common-fantasy-for-women-is-a-rape-fantasy-women.1044071 https://theredarchive.com/post/1044071

Comments

[–]RathgartheUgly 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mimsy12321 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

Ok, I am a long time lurker on here, and I know I'm going to get flamed to you-know-where for this, however...

One of the many reasons women may have rape fantasies, is because there is still a social stigma regarding female sexuality. Societally speaking, it's still not okay for a woman to want rough sex, multiple partners, or (depending on your community) to want sex at all (outside of a monogamous marriage or relationship). By imagining a situation in which they are not in control (and are therefore not responsible for any sexual acts they are "forced" to do), they can have the pleasure of imagining sex and/or rough sex without the guilt.

That said, as a woman (and a self-identified feminist and equal rights advocate) I have just as much of a problem as this article does with women such as Rhianna and the like, and they way they dress and act in their music videos, cover art, etc. I also think it is vastly unfair to group all men under the label "creepy" or "perverted", and think it is just as unfair to give all women this label.

Honestly, I think there are many feminists who have an equal amount of loathing for many of these artists as well...

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points 15 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Ok, I am a long time lurker on here, and I know I'm going to get flamed to you-know-where for this, however...

One of the many reasons women may have rape fantasies, is because there is still a social stigma regarding female sexuality. Societally speaking, it's still not okay for a woman to want rough sex, multiple partners, or (depending on your community) to want sex at all (outside of a monogamous marriage or relationship).

Rubbish. The reason women have rape fantasies is they enjoy being dominated sexually and always have. It has nothing to do with social stigma; it's just how women are.

Furthermore, society at large believes it's a-okay for women to dress and act like harlots and do anything they please without repercussions. Society celebrates it and our laws encourage it. Men have no such freedom to act with impunity.

We'd actually be a lot better off if society really did discourage women behaving badly like you claim it does. In truth, anyone who discourages women fulfilling their most base and animalistic desires without any regard to the good of society is called a misogynist.

I can see you've had a nice women's studies indoctrination, though.

[–]Mimsy12321 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

The reason women have rape fantasies is they enjoy being dominated sexually and always have. It has nothing to do with social stigma; it's just how women are.

Haha, I really hope you realize that you sound just as bad as women who say "well, of course all men want/think about is sex - it's just how men are". Yes, many women enjoy being dominated sexually, this may be one of the other reasons women have rape fantasies. However, I also know that many women feel ashamed that they even have sexual desires, and imagining being "raped" is a way to relieve themselves of any guilt, while still getting the pleasure of imagining "sex".

Furthermore, society at large believes it's a-okay for women to dress and act like harlots and do anything they please without repercussions. Society celebrates it and our laws encourage it. Men have no such freedom to act with impunity.

That's the odd part about our society. We thrust sexual images everywhere, put sexual innuendos in everything, and have no problem with our pop-stars essentially having sex during music videos, and yet we still have this societal fear of sex. A sex scene is more likely to bump a movie up to an R rating than a gratuitous amount of violence, abstinence-only education is still being used in some schools (though the number of schools it's used at is decreasing, I believe), and society still tends to shame women for enjoying sex, or having multiple partners. We still use the word "slut" as an insult - a girl who sleeps around is perceived as a bad thing.

Actually, you may have proven my point: you say that it would be better if society discouraged women from "behaving badly". Are you referring to the pop stars and such who objectify themselves and make themselves out as nothing more than sex objects? Or are you referring to women who sleep around, have multiple partners, etc?

I can see you've had a nice women's studies indoctrination, though.

Actually, I've never truly studied women's studies, though I wouldn't pretend to be a stranger to it. But these are more things that I've noticed about our society through simple observation.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 15 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

Haha, I really hope you realize that you sound just as bad as women who say "well, of course all men want/think about is sex - it's just how men are".

No, because what I said is true for most women, whereas your example is false for most men.

However, I also know that many women feel ashamed that they even have sexual desires, and imagining being "raped" is a way to relieve themselves of any guilt, while still getting the pleasure of imagining "sex".

Uh, maybe that's true for a minority of women, but the main reason women fantasize about rape is that it simply turns them on. This is because women tend to enjoy being dominated. Society isn't guilting women into masturbating to rape fantasies. Must women always be entirely blameless for their thoughts and actions?

Actually, you may have proven my point: you say that it would be better if society discouraged women from "behaving badly". Are you referring to the pop stars and such who objectify themselves and make themselves out as nothing more than sex objects? Or are you referring to women who sleep around, have multiple partners, etc

I am referring to women. But I am not society, am I?

Societal pressure (shaming) is required to limit the human female's natural hypergamous nature. The problem is that today's society does not put any pressure on women to be good or contribute to society in any way. There are no consequences for women, only for men. This is why 40% of children are born to single moms. If society is guilting women over having sex, then it isn't doing a very good job.

In fact, society encourages women to sleep around to be a "strong, independent woman". Girls are losing their virginity younger and younger. Cougarism is encouraged. Haven't you seen Sex in the City? If you're not in favor of women sleeping around with multiple partners and dressing like cheap hookers, well you're just an ass-backwards misogynist. Girl power!

This is not a society that will last very long. But at least women will get to do whatever they please without consequences for a generation or two. Totally worth it, right?

The misandry bubble will pop soon.

[–]Mimsy12321 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

No, because what I said is true for most women, whereas your example is false for most men.

Again, this is just as bad. What are you basing this opinion on? Broad, sweeping generalizations are seldom accurate, especially when applied toward a large portion of a population (in this case, somewhere around fifty percent of the population).

I think some of your opinions here may be stemming from a good amount of hate. There are some areas of society where women are favored over men, there are also areas where men are favored over women. In relation to this, there are some things that are more encouraged for women than men (and men are scandalized or not supported for doing or believing these things), and there are some things that are more encouraged for men than women (and again, women are scandalized or not supported if they do these things). The best thing we can do is continue working toward equality in all areas for both.

Society isn't guilting women into masturbating to rape fantasies. Must women always be entirely blameless for their thoughts and actions?

I'm not sure where "blame" is coming in. If women have rape fantasies, there's nothing wrong with that, so there's really nothing to blame them or society for. However, it's interesting to see where they stem from. Is a woman ultimately responsible for her own fantasy? Yes. Could there be societal pressures which subconsciously influence them into having these fantasies? In some cases, yes. Some women want to be dominated. Some women (especially those of certain religious beliefs) are ashamed of having sexual desires, and some may even be afraid of actual sex. All three of these are factors which may cause them to have rape fantasies.

Ultimately, we are each responsible for our own actions. However, this does not mean society cannot heavily influence the reasoning behind those actions. There are many, many examples for both men and women. A few decades ago, there was a general societal belief of what "real men" were, some of which encouraged negative actions. If a man went through with any of these encouraged negative actions, are they absolved of blame because society encouraged it? No. But we can look at those societal pressures, acknowledge that they were a factor in why he thought it was alright to act this way, and try to change them in order to prevent society from encouraging these actions in the future.

I am referring to women. But I am not society, am I?

No, but you must have gotten this opinion from somewhere.

There are no consequences for women, only for men. This is why 40% of children are born to single moms.

I'm not exactly sure what being a single mother has to do with there not being any consequences for women...in fact, this provides an example that, in matters of sex, men are often not held responsible for their actions.

In fact, society encourages women to sleep around to be a "strong, independent woman". Girls are losing their virginity younger and younger. Cougarism is encouraged.

I have to admit, this viewpoint is rising. It's sort of the backlash to the viewpoint that I pointed out. Society is a creature of extremes - one side is saying "if you want sex, you're bad/shameful/disobeying your deity, etc", and the other is saying "not only should you want sex, but you're nothing more than a sexual object of desire". The latter viewpoint is essentially what these female pop culture icons are encouraging. However, many religious associations, schools, families, etc. still essentially encourage the "women who sleep around are sluts" viewpoint. A girl at a high school who sleeps with even a single guy is more likely to be called a slut (even if behind her back), then a guy who sleeps with multiple women.

It would be nice to strike an equilibrium between these two. Sex is natural. Men and women want sex, and both are multi-faceted human beings who have characteristics other than wanting sex.

Haven't you seen Sex in the City?

I haven't actually. Heard of it, but never cared to watch it. Honestly, it looks rather stupid.

If you're not in favor of women sleeping around with multiple partners and dressing like cheap hookers, well you're just an ass-backwards misogynist.

While I agree that many women in pop culture are not helping anyone, with anything, in any way by promoting themselves as sex objects - I have to ask, do you think that women having multiple partners is a bad thing? I may have misunderstood what you were saying, here, but if that is what you're saying, why is it alright for men to have multiple partners but not women?

I also agree that women who dress like "cheap hookers", are only doing themselves and other women a disservice. It would be nice if society could find a nice balance between agreeing that both women and men have natural sexual desires which are not wrong to pursue so long as you're safe about doing so.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

If you really believe that the majority of women do not prefer being dominated sexually you're nuts. More accurately, you're the type of person who will always believe whatever they want to believe, truth be damned. As such, I won't waste anymore time with you.

edit: Because I'm feeling generous today and realize you're more naive than willingly ignorant, I finished reading the rest of your comment. Here's what I'll say: nearly everything you said is bullshit. If you're truly interested you should spend a year or so reading men's rights blogs, reading The Misandry Bubble, reading old the-spearhead.com articles which have thoroughly debunked everything you've said here.

Well, actually, there is one thing you said that strikes home.

However, this does not mean society cannot heavily influence the reasoning behind those actions.

That's true. And you've been indoctrinated by a misandric society which has lied to you about men & boys, women & girls, not only about who they are, but about who they were 50 or 100 years ago, and why they are who they are. Most people simply acquiesce to the bullshit they've been fed. Ignorance is bliss for many. Since you took the time to comment, I've taken the time to give you a chance.

You can start here or remain broader society's pawn: http://www.singularity2050.com/the-misandry-bubble/

If you just stick around Reddit/r/MensRights, you will learn much more slowly.

By the way, some of what you may read will seem radical at first. A lot of the things I know now to be true would have offended me a year and a half ago. But as I read more, questioned it, and found answers, I realized the obviousness of the truth. And I opened my eyes.

[–]Mimsy12321 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I apologize in advance for the exceptionally long response, haha. Before you brush it off - I swear it is not all direct contradiction of what you have said. I do focus a little more on what I disagree with, but there is little need to expand on why I agree on some points, seeing as we already agree.

Thank you for the link, the article is quite interesting, although some it reminds me of some of the feminist extremist propaganda (though obviously on the opposite side of the spectrum) in the extremity of some claims that are not supported by facts or legitimate research. I don't like extremists - on either side. Both are doing harm to their cause.

There are many excellent points within this article, however, I don't entirely agree with all the solutions to the problems. There are also some black-and-white arguments and sweeping generalizations which have little to no factual basis, as well as undertones of racism at certain points. It would take me quite a while to go through what I agree and disagree with, however, I encourage anyone who reads anything to do their own research (and/or check the references) to confirm the factuality of the points made, as well as look at the opposing arguments and research the factuality behind those.

In short: the big things (but not the only things) that I agree with is that men are frequently biased against in terms of child custody, domestic abuse, sexual assault (though that's a whole other conversation altogether), and divorce. I also agree that our consumerist society is toxic. Women wanting thousand dollar rings or million dollar weddings are missing the point of marriage. Not to mention spending three hundred dollars on a purse is just plain stupid. However, men can be guilty of a consumerism as well - though admittedly (from what I can see) not to the extent that women can be.

I do take offense at the obvious bias this article - and often extreme men's rights in general - takes against single mothers (and, if this article is anything to go by, contraception) and marriage. On the same side of many single mothers doing a perfectly adequate job raising their children, there are also (admittedly fewer) single fathers doing the same thing. It may be more difficult for a single man or woman to raise a child (if only because that means your time must be stretched between work and child), but having a single parent does not immediately mean a child will not have a good upbringing. Unfortunately, and I don't think this was the intention of the article, the article also comes across at times (in various areas) not just as men wanting equal rights where they don't have them, but also as men wanting superiority in some areas. Again, this is similar to extremist feminists who have gone too far and are now clamoring for superiority, rather than equality.

That said, equality is a tricky issue. The art of giving one side the equality without suppressing the other side is tricky, at best, and highly complicated nearing implausibility at worst. I, personally, think it is possible to give equal equality (as redundant as this sounds), but I think the insulting and demeaning that is coming from both sides of the issue is not helping.

Oh...and the hate towards Sarah Palin, I think, has less to do with her role as a strong "feminist" woman (which she is), and has more to do with her political views, policies, and the things she actually did while holding a political office. I think supporting a feminist in politics simply because she's a feminist, or a woman, would be just as wrong as supporting the male candidate solely because he's a man, or supporting the black candidate just because they're black.

More accurately, you're the type of person who will always believe whatever they want to believe, truth be damned.

I have to say, you're sort of being the pot calling the kettle black. I encourage you, in turn, to read some of the less extreme "feminist" media with an open mind, if you have not already done so. Please also acknowledge that saying "all/most 'women/men/blacks/gays/whites/Americans/whatever' like/dislike 'x'" is a broad, sweeping generalization and can rarely be backed up by facts. Polls, surveys, and the like can show certain trends (if done properly), however, locking everyone in that category inside that box does a disservice to each individual.

I also have to point out that I conceded on some of the things you pointed out, whereas you have dismissed the original discussion with a sweeping generalization which you did not support with anything aside from you opinion.

It is fact, not opinion, that historically our society has favored men over women, or at the very least has not given women the same freedoms and privileges as men - whether or not men intended this. One obvious example is around a hundred years ago, when women did not have the right to vote. We are getting better, much better, yes, and the inequality is not as obvious, but just as there are aspects of society where women are favored over men, there are still aspects of society where men are favored over women.

nearly everything you said is bullshit.

I'm honestly interested as to why you don't agree with a single thing (other than what you've quoted about) I have said. In summation, I agreed that society is starting to encourage women in the opposite direction (being overly-sexual beings, rather than non-sexual beings), I pointed out that there are areas of society where men are biased against and areas where women are biased against, I pointed out that sex is natural and both men and women have sexual desires, I said that Sex and the City looks stupid, and I said that sexual desires can be pursued by both sexes in a healthy manner. I'm not saying you have to agree with anything above, but what is your reasoning?

I also asked if you thought that women having multiple partners was a bad thing, and if so, why?

If you do decide to no longer reply - thank you for the good conversation, and the interesting viewpoints.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

All I'll say is the following:

Just because it's a generalization doesn't make it false. Oranges at the grocery store tend to be orange.

Any man with a good deal of experience with women, like me or any pick up artist / game enthusiast, can tell you that the majority of women prefer to dominated sexually. This is a fact. And it is the most obvious reason women have rape fantasies, though I'm sure there are other factors which contribute.

Many women complain that "game" doesn't work, too. But it does work because women tend to react to the same things in similar, predictable ways. Game works because generalizations can be made about women. One of those is that women, deep down, prefer to be dominated, not only sexually, but in every regard. And when I say women, I mean the vast majority of women. Not every single woman on the planet.

[–]Mimsy12321 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

Just because it's a generalization doesn't make it false.

This is true.

Oranges at the grocery store tend to be orange.

This is also true. However, there is a severe difference between generalizations and accepted facts which have been backed up by data. In this case, the data is visual. If you walk into a grocery store, you can see that the majority of oranges are orange. However, if this was not an accepted fact and you wanted to start making this generalization, before you could legitimately state this you would have to do a study. A proper study might be picking fifty cities in each state, and two to ten grocery stores (of various brands, not just Safeway or Walmart, or whatever) within each city (depending on city size and available grocery stores). You would then have to visit each of these grocery stores, look at their oranges, and maintain that they are, indeed, orange.

This is a relatively simple example. As the subjects become more complicated - as humans, their emotions, and their desires certainly are - the study becomes more complicated. A single person doing a study, no matter how scientific, does not make their conclusion fact. The study must be repeated, checked for flaws, and often changed for accuracy before the scientific community will accept it as "fact".

A generalization without data is only inches away from being a stereotype.

Any man with a good deal of experience with women, like me or any pick up artist / game enthusiast, can tell you that the majority of women prefer to dominated sexually. This is a fact.

This may be true as well. However, without empirical data, this is heresy. Do you have any published data to support this?

I'm not saying you're wrong, I just disagree on calling this a "fact" based on personal experience. I know many, many women who want to do the dominating (and have done so with their boyfriends/fiancées/husbands). I also know many women who, due to their religion, upbringing, etc, are almost ashamed that they have sexual desires.

In my experience, and through surveys done on various sites, women were split in why they had rape fantasies: many liked to be dominated, yes, but many others (especially middle aged and older) admitted that as a child or young adult sexual desires were frowned upon for women because of their religion, familial structure, or school structure.

It is highly likely that both of us are getting skewed data based on the women we tend to interact with based on our personal lifestyles. It is also possible (and I just thought of this), that many women have a combination of these factors influencing them. Many young and middle aged women may have been told as a child that sex is only okay when you're married, or that women aren't supposed to be sexual, etc., (because twenty years ago, this was still a popular viewpoint as anyone who grew up in that era will tell you) and then on top of that, have desires of being dominated.

One of those is that women, deep down, prefer to be dominated, not only sexually, but in every regard.

I really hate to break the civility of our conversations, but I have to say that that is the most asinine thing I have ever heard. Sexuality aside, I know some women who want to be doormats, but the vast majority of the women I have met, interacted with - and this includes women in my family, in high school, at the university I studied and worked at, in my home town, in the cities where I have visited family and friends, in the city I live now, at the zoo I worked at, at the ranch I worked at, in the large community I am a part of for one of my specific interests, at my current workplace, in places that I have gone on vacation, and women that I've heard about through family and friends in various states - women I've talked to online, read about, etc, are strong, independent women who are their own persons and who could, and do take care of themselves if they have the want or need. Yes, there are some snivelling little girls who want to bend to a man's every beck and call, and do whatever he tells her to do. There may be some women who are content to stay at the bottom of a business, at the lowest paying position, and never work her way up. There may even be some who "want" to be slapped around or abused - although these women have serious issues, and probably have a history of abuse. However, sorry, but in today's society most women want to be equals, not inferiors.

I could be wrong, but I severely hope I'm not. If what you say is true, and most women "want" a man to own their life, than obviously there is still an extreme inequality between the sexes. A woman shouldn't be inferior to a man anymore than a man should be inferior to a woman. If you do not agree with this, then you are doing your cause a great disservice.

What exactly is your definition of "dominated", in "other regards"?

Edit: I'm sorry, my last few paragraphs may be a little harsh. However, I still stand by the basic premise, that I don't think women really do want men to be dominant over them in every regard - with a few exceptions - even if many women think they do.

Saying that women want men to be "dominant over" them, is frighteningly close to the viewpoint held when women had few rights in society. I am dominant over my dog. I can tell my dog what to do, and she had better listen to me. I also own my dog. If I had a child, I could probably argue that I am also dominant over that child in that I tell them what to do, I keep them safe, and I take care of them. I am not dominant over my friends, hypothetical boyfriend or girlfriend, or hypothetical spouse because within these groups we have a mutual, respectful relationship based on trust and love.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 15 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Here's something you need to understand. But you can't because...

Women don't understand women.

So when you say "women were split in why they had rape fantasies" in regards to a poll, that tells me only that women didn't understand why they had rape fantasies.

As I said before:

Women, deep down, prefer to be dominated, not only sexually, but in every regard.

It's not asinine, it's the truth. Women seek a man of power so that he may dominate her. The reason women divorce men is because he no longer seems powerful and cannot dominate her to her desire. Women are hypergamous. Who do women really want? Alpha males or beta providers? Well, you see how often they divorce the beta providers to go back to the alpha cock? That's because they don't respect the beta providers. They don't want someone they can walk over.

What women think they want or say they want is not what they really want.

Why do so many women say they want a "nice guy"? They really want a bad boy, a high status alpha. Women rarely admit it and most don't even realize it.

I thought about whether I was getting "skewed data" based on the women I interact with. But ugly or pretty, fat or skinny, white or black or yellow, most all women want to be dominated.

That's not to say some women would prefer not to be submissive. Certainly not the majority.

without empirical data

The hypothesis that women prefer a strong, dominant male has been tested quite thoroughly, thank you. It's called game, and it works on almost all women. Whether it's at the bar, on the street, at work, or in the home - women want a confident, dominant male, and if you are one (or know how to act like one) women are putty in your hands.

I understand women. You don't.

I suggest you go troll a PUA forum or something with your questions. They'd have fun with your denial.

Know thyself.

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