When daddy is just an optional extra

kanuk876 · 2009-10-04T16:49:32+00:00

Not having a father around fucked my life up in many ways. Fathers are under appreciated.

Mesca · 2009-10-04T17:29:34+00:00

Lenore Weitzman write a book in 1985, The Divorce Revolution, that claimed that men have a 42% improvement in their post-divorce standard of living while women have a 73% decline.

This was complete rubbish, but yet was presented scientifically, and on that basis became accepted as fact, and became very influential in defining state-mandated spousal maintenance tables across the USA. Despite being proven as based on faulty data, the influence of this bogus finding remains.

Many researchers have since refuted Weitzman's claim, but the actual truth is not nearly as politically correct: both women and men suffer financially from a divorce because it breaks up an economically efficient family unit into two inefficient units with the same income. (See, for example, Duncan, 1994; Stroup and Pollock, 1994) Children in the US are almost twice as likely to be living in poverty after a divorce than before. (See De Parle, 1991.)

All advocates for men's rights and fathers' rights should have an understanding of these issues, these trends, and the need to reform maintenance and child support guidelines.

2009-10-04T20:58:21+00:00

she opens the article by proclaiming that women are the victim of this study that shows that CHILDREN are negatively impacted by their mothers career.

Then she goes on to say "well why don't we drag men into this?" As if that will some how remedy the situation.

She wonders why they've redressed discrimination against women, but have never challenged the fathers role as bread winner, and thats very simple. Men never had an issue with their role in the family unit, and most men don't care to change it. Most of the men who do want to change it, only want to change it because females have largely abandoned their roles within the family, unfairly burdening the male.

Then, only to suit her own feminist agenda, does she address anything remotely like fathers rights, or mens rights, or true gender equality.

Mesca · 2009-10-04T16:58:34+00:00

An great social change happens only through organized, thoughtful advocacy. I'm not talking about street protests. I'm talking about clearly identifying the issues, articulating and documenting the inequities, and describing what needs to change and why.

Rachel Carson's 1962 book "Silent Spring", served to catalyze real action on environment issues. But the book alone did not cause the change. It was one piece in a large puzzle.

We don't need "one piece". We need to assemble all the pieces of the puzzle.

Mesca · 2009-10-04T16:55:45+00:00

Yawn.

Another story about inequity for fathers in parenting. I'm glad it ran. I hope millions read it. Reading it "validates me".

But, what is the real result of this article? We can all stop wringing our hands for a moment, and feel a little satisfied. Does that actually change anything?

What is going to bring about real change?

If we truly cared, we would take a strategic marketing approach to the situation. This means, we collect real data, draw conclusions, and determine if we think a change is necessary, and then plan how to influence that change.

We hear stories like this one - they all amount to anecdotes. We have "a feeling" that things are not equitable, but what is the real truth?

To know, we need to monitor the media, the press, articles in scientific journals, entertainment. We need to produce real data - how many stories run that depict men as dangerous, or deadbeats, or apathetic? How man show the men that dedicate their lives to supporting their children and families? How many stories like this that support the idea that a father plays an important, invaluable role in the lives of young people? How many stories run that portray women as the only indispensable resouce in a family, and denigrate men as of secondary importance? How many laws promote women's rights as parents and fail to mention men, or more important, the effect on children of introducing an anti-father bias in the laws? How much money flows to women's causes and how much to men?

Without real data like this, we are all just whining.

If we ever want things to change, we need to first understand the "situation on the ground" and be able to articulate exactly, precisely what we want to change. Then present this to persuade those in power. This means legislators, but also their leading constituents. To influence those people, men need an organized advocacy effort, and broad diligence. People favor fairness, and most people believe the system is fair today. Is it? I don't think so. I think the changes in the laws over the past 30 years have disadvantaged men, have engendered a "divorce industry" that profits from destroying families. I think these laws have resulted in men being denied their human and civil rights.

Yes that sounds like whining, but it's what I think. If I had real data on this I could remove any doubt. I wouldn't have to say "this is what I think". I'd be able to say, "This is the truth of the matter."

With real data we'd be able to document whether it is fair or not. Real data on custody rulings in divorces, real data on the impact of father involvement on children. With data we could show people how it is not fair, and what needs to change to make it truly equitable for men and women.

An organized, well thought out effort to document the science and the spin around on men's rights issues is the only way to produce change in the culture.

Title	When daddy is just an optional extra
Author	reyofish
Upvotes	15
Comments	6
Date	October 4, 2009 4:01 PM UTC (16 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/9qq5z/when_daddy_is_just_an_optional_extra/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/when-daddy-is-just-an-optional-extra.1052585 https://theredarchive.com/post/1052585

Comments