Preaching to other than the choir?

mewacketergi2 · 2021-01-17T19:33:28+00:00

But the thing is I see good topics and great points and a bunch of people agreeing to what is said and adding interesting viewpoints. I am left with the feeling that i wish other people would see this.

If you sincerely want to do this, then you are either new or don't understand how the feminist worldview works and how their scholars conceptualize power. An overwhelming majority of their kind doesn't want to debate you, as your criticism or pro-male advocacy is an obvious sign of your "privilege-preserving epistemic pushback", or "anti-feminist backlash", and general lack of understanding and sophisticated education.

Instead, they briefly try to convert you, and when this fails, they declare you an evil that must be defeated and try to root out your misogyny (which is apparent from you insisting on being a non-feminist). To do this, they make complaints to authorities to get you banned from television, newspapers, and whatever online space that would give you a platform to persuade others away from feminism.

(please refer to Karl Popper and his Paradox of Intolerance to read more on this phenomenon, or more recently James Lindsay has a lot of good works on explaining the woke mindset)

MRAs and men's advocates are a fringe minority, we are unpopular, silenced and often lied about, so to get something done and convince others we must step outside of our political bubble and talk to others, even if the odds are against us. (It looks like you are already doing that – so my hat's off to you!)

You must understand feminists are not like that, they are numerous, popular and a socially dominant force enough to receive preferential treatment from newspapers, universities, politicians, and generally run their own bubbles. There, on paper some tolerance for wrongthink and non-feminist is claimed, but in practice margin for unacceptability is so low, that no dissenters stays unbanned for long.

So you want to have an Aristotelian conversation with this crowd. That's mighty noble of you! But they want to achieve social change using censorship, building groupthink, tribalist conformity and maintaining ideological orthodoxies, and in the end, political domination. What you want is a nice fantasy, kind of, "what if everyone just got along and were friends with each other," and one that I feel hugely sympathetic to, but unfortunately, it is not realistic.

Nota bene. Your best second option is to have conversations with disillusioned and unusually male-empathetic feminists, which always existed as a passionate, but quiet, passive minority, people who don't self-label, or are apolitical, or the moderates.

I believe in, and personally benefited greatly from engagement with intelligent people across party lines, who still share some values important to you, but I don't know of any single space to reliably find such folks. They just aren't very tribal. Keep your eyes open in the wild.

P.S. There used to be r/FeMRADebates, but now, it is more of a feminist-run safe space that fell into the pattern I described in first and second paragraphs. r/PurplePillDebate is OK in ideological diversity, but they are as intellectual as a drunken bar brawl. There doesn't exist a ready-made solution for what you want.

EDIT: Rephrase nota bene, add paragraph before the last.

AskingToFeminists · 2021-01-18T10:35:18+00:00

I think u/mewacketergi2 said it all :

You can go ahead and try. Many of us have. Many of us came with similar intention. I mean, I created this account with the I tention to have dialogues with feminists, to explore what they believe, as my pseudonym indicate.

Let's just say that my attempts in dialogue have not exactly met their public. Basically, any place where you find feminists, there is a feminist moderator that will ban you for having good points, or for daring to question feminism, or even for slightly diverging from the party line. And any place where you don't get a ban-happy moderator biased in favor of feminism, you don't find feminists.

I have had plenty of interesting talks with feminists. Those happened either IRL or with some of the feminists who came to us. Even of those who come to us, most come with the mindset of preaching and converting us by presenting the brand new argument they learned, or telling us we ~~will burn in hell for our impiety, but can still be saved if only we accept Jesus, because of pascal's wager~~ are really sexists and need to embrace feminism which only means equality. (Sorry, I tend to mistake feminist and creationists, given how similar the patterns of behavior are.)

Like he said, there are feminists who are actually interested in dialogue, but they are not gathered in one place, and the places where feminists gather will ban you for those attempts at dialogue.

So, if you find a better method than pure random luck and waiting here for them to come to us, let us know. Trust us, we've tried plenty of other ways of reaching out, and came back to conclude that those were the only two.

Long_Cut_7015 · 2021-01-19T05:32:58+00:00

No, don't waste your time. we need to spread our ideas and raise awareness about men's rights issues to moderate people not wasting our time with ideologues.

Title	Preaching to other than the choir?
Author	16365
Upvotes	4
Comments	15
Date	January 17, 2021 6:18 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/kzbmv0/preaching_to_other_than_the_choir/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/preaching-to-other-than-the-choir.1062092 https://theredarchive.com/post/1062092

Comments