Sigma male vs beta misandrist hivemind

rabatek · 2021-12-09T12:46:02+00:00

PreviousNextBack to Grid ViewPreviousNextBack to Grid ViewPreviousNextBack to Grid ViewPreviousNextBack to Grid ViewPreviousNextBack to Grid...

[–]Total-Category-9451 16 points17 points18 points 4 years ago (30 children) | Copy Link

[+]Terminallyonline69 -12 points-11 points-10 points 4 years ago (29 children) | Copy Link

[–]CrowMagpie 8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago* (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Terminallyonline69 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]CrowMagpie 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

It's partly your use of that term. Partly because, when you were told it's an objectionable term on this sub, you doubled down on it instead of listening to the people who object to it.

Partly because you ignore feminist hypocrisy to post everything you've posted here; for example, their objections to needlessly gendered language when it 'hurts' women, and your insistence on gendered language such as 'patriarchy', even though it's victim-blaming.

Partly because you don't seem to have figured out that this sub is called 'antifeminism,' and not 'if a feminist comes here with man-blaming terminology to say 'see, feminists can be good' we'll change our minds about them'.

Partly because of your condescending attitude to those of us who disagree with you (right below this is a comment where you accuse somebody of being 14, like that's a problem).

Partly because you're directly contradicting yourself:

The system that favors men is the patriarchy, and I gave specific examples that I'm 99% sure you already agree with on how the patriarchy can negatively effect men.

Mostly because, after all that, you still have to ask why we don't like what you're saying.

This will be my only answer to your questions. I've wasted too much time lately arguing with bad-faith feminists on pro-male subs to keep doing so.

[–]Terminallyonline69 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

This is a decent criticism on most of my rhetoric, and I'll try to improve on most of it. However, I try to solely use the term patriarchy in a negative context, it is NOT good and egalitarianism is objectively a better system we should aim towards.

I honestly didn't notice how my quoted statement was contradictory until you mentioned it, a better way for me to have said that was probably "the system that divides men and women into dominant and submissive categories is the patriarchy, which in turn hurts both men and women" if that makes more sense. While this system has benefitted men in some obvious economic and educational ways, I also believe that everything MRAs complain about is a result of this power dynamic as well.

MRA's make me unusually mad because it seems that the only rift between me and them is the fact that they see the term "patriarchy" as a personal attack instead of a description of a system that hurts us all. In the future I'll probably explain my definition of patriarchy better before using the term, as it seems to strike a nerve with many.

Edit: I also don't really like how being anti feminist is seen as pro male. You can be both a feminist and pro-male, and most feminists I associate with constantly talk about how men are hurt by male expectations (example: https://youtu.be/uc6QxD2_yQw)

[–]CrowMagpie 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]WorldController 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Terminallyonline69 -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]rumplton 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]rabatek[S] 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Terminallyonline69 -4 points-3 points-2 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]WorldController 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Terminallyonline69 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]WorldController 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Terminallyonline69 -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]steelbyter 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]randomuser990113 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Terminallyonline69 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]randomuser990113 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]rumplton 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]Terminallyonline69 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]rumplton 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]Terminallyonline69 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]rumplton 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

Those are both men but feel free to try again. Also there’s a clear discrepancy between self titled feminists and feminism as a movement. It is completely true, when you look at their actions feminists have done so much harm to men.

https://titleixforall.com/protesters-threaten-violence-and-death-against-international-mens-issues-conference-in-detroit-at-doubletree-hilton/

https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2699740

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/education/2015/nov/17/row-after-university-of-york-cancels-international-mens-day-event

^ Three DIFFERENT times feminists have disrupted men’s mental health talks. There are 400 abuse shelters for women in the us and none for men, there was one in Canada before the largest feminist organisation in the world complained to the point where the government removed their funding and they had to shut down.

They’re actively fighting against due process so that women don’t even need evidence to convict men of crimes.

They’ve completely devalued fatherhood. They tell fathers they’re unnecessary and started a movement to celebrate mothers on Father’s Day.

They spread the idea that masculinity (not just toxic masculinity) is inherently harmful. This has scared young girls and made young innocent boys feel demonised.

There are also no examples of feminist organisations that fight for men’s rights. So though there may be some self titled feminists that do believe in men’s rights, the fact is that the movement has done nothing but harm them

And all that’s just thinking about it for two minutes, I can name a lot more if you give me time

[–]Terminallyonline69 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

You can be a male and a feminist, though. I am a male and an egalitarian who talks about both feminist and men's rights issues, and so are both the guys I linked. This guy is probably the best left wing advocate online, if you want to understand this mindset more.Usually people like me and them focus on one issue at a time, though, and don't say "but women are more.abused" when talking about male abuse and "but men commit higher suicide rates" when talking about female abuse, because it is INCREDIBLY annoying. These are all issues that we can talk about individually without turning it into a contest.

I've researched some of the articles, and apparently on the first one, the organizer was aggressively misogynistic online, which was likely the main cause of pushback. On another article you linked, from the guardian, this was one of the first quotes in the article:

A petition has been launched, which states: “It is important that we recognise men’s day just as much as women’s day. True feminists should be fighting for gender equality for both men and women. To cancel men’s day is simply hypocritical. Equality is not just for women and should concern both genders.”

This isn't really a man-hating narrative.

The university mainly cancelled the event mentioned because they were concerned about associating with the people who run MRA events (which, as I've mentioned previously, are notoriously filled with bad faith.)

I really think the MRA movement would be improved if they stopped treating it like they are battling against feminists, and vice versa. Imagine if you were going to an MRA meeting and someone annoyingly said "ok, but women have it worse in x field" every time an issue was brought up. It is incredibly annoying. Every time I see an MRA, however, they are responding to feminists talking about female issues(look at this subreddit), which causes many to despise the movement. I acknowledge that feminists do this too sometimes, but they also have their own communities where they discuss female issues without needing it to be a response to a post made by an MRA, something that the of the movement severely lacks (r/menslib and r/leftwingmaleadvocates are exceptions to this.)

Earl Silverman didn't commit suicide because of the existence of female abuse centers. He committed suicide because the government wouldn't recognize male abuse centers as a legitimate institution. This isn't a problem caused by feminism, but by society's long-standing apathy towards the emotions and struggles that men fact today. I will emphasize that this has been a long standing problem, and it is completely unfair that men aren't treated as seriously as women when it comes to abuse. However, being mad at the fact that women get treated seriously is a waste of time. We should instead be mad at the fact that men aren't taken seriously, and treat this movement as something separate from women's issues while realizing that the end goal is egalitarianism.

Many of the other problems you've listed are kinda based off misconception. I don't really understand how a movement that has CEO women in business suits as a common figure of it can be against the concept of masculinity in general

Fathers and mothers are equally as useful according to Data. Data shows that it doesn't really matter what the gender of your parents are, just that you have 2, as single parents are usually impovershed, and poverty leads to worse outcomes. I will agree that the corporate single-mother fathers day ads were cringe, but largely inconsequential, though.

Falsely accusing someone of sexual assault is rarer than falsely accusing someone of murder. Since 1989, only 59 men have been taken to court for false sexual assault allegations (compared to 790 overturned murder cases), and all of the men accused were exhonerated. This is because America's court of law requires evidence to convict people. False sexual abuse accusations that make it to court are extremely uncommon, and those that do are overturned once it comes out that there isn't any evidence. It's a problem, but only to the same degree that false-accusations of crimes are a problem.

/End rant

[–]rumplton 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

Vaush is a pedophile that admitted he only called himself a feminists to get women. Also you completely missed the part where I said there’s a difference between self titled feminists and the feminisms movement, you literally could’ve removed over half your reply cause it’s not relevant.

Are you insane? It was a talk for men’s mental health and shouldn’t have been cancelled at all, the guy being a supposed bad guy was clearly not a factor if you watched the footage. You need to learn to properly research stuff before you make a reply cause what’s misogynistic to one person may be completely innocent which is exactly what happened here. As you can see feminists have also hurt men by convincing you that mras are terrible people. Thanks for proving my point. And no they cancelled it because of the outrage, if there was no outrage there’d be no cancellation. mras are battling against feminists but if you do your research you can clearly see that the feminists attacked first. The talk had nothing to do with feminists but the feminists still felt a need to disrupt it, the fact that you’re making excuses for them is disgusting and shows you rly don’t care at all. They never went up and disrupted feminists to claim they had it worse so no clue what you’re even talking about there.

THEY ARE MAD AT YHE FACT THAT MEN ARENT TREATED SERIOUSLY. Seriously where are you getting your information because mras have never advocated for not taking women seriously. I’m just gonna assume you saw a couple of mad incels and confused them with with entire mra organisations.

No clue what you’re talking about with CEO women in business suits, that’s an obvious straw man argument.

Earl Silverman also wasn’t part of my point, that’s another straw man argument, you’re on a roll rn.

Yes obviously fathers and mothers are both important I don’t see why you have the need to mention and talking about having two of the same parent is completely irrelevant. Once again you’ve missed the point. I never said fathers were pointless I’m saying feminists are saying fathers are pointless and that women don’t need a father to take care of a child despite the stats showing the opposite. And no the ad wasn’t inconsequential since it contributes to the idea that fathers are pointless.

And for the fourth time you’ve completely missed the point. First off your stats are wrong but that aside it’s not about the number of men falsely accused. It’s that they’re trying to completely remove due process so that a women has the ABILITY to accuse and convict a man without evidence. Seriously I don’t think you’ve addressed a single point I’ve made. Literally for everything I said you either talking about something completely irrelevant or missed the point entirely.

And as for the points I made that you didn’t address at all I’m just gonna assume you concede to them.

You’re entire narrative on men’s rights activist attacking women instead of focusing on themselves is stupid, the people doing the mental health talk weren’t attacking anyone at conference. you’re conflating bitter individuals with the movement just like how you confused self identifying feminists and the feminism movement. You can’t be an egalitarian and a feminist, it’s a contradiction.

Also you’re entire response was a tangent so let me bring you back to the actual point. What exactly have feminists (the movement not some self identifying individuals) done for men? You claimed they also fight for men’s rights but you still haven’t provided anything to back that up.

[–]Terminallyonline69 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I1. think you're under the assumption that I'm against men's rights. I am not. I am a men's rights advocate. We LITERALLY agree on EVERY point you've made that isn't disproven by data (false sexual assault claims that actually go to court aren't a widespread issue and happen as often as false claims for other crimes. lying under oath is literally against the law, and our court system is built off of trillions of dollars of investment to snuff out falsehoods. This is why false sexual assault trials are exceedingly rare.)

2.Vaush isn't a pedo, his arguement are anti-child labor. I can post clips of his actual arguements that aren't cut out of context if you'd like. Also, the clip I posted was about him being literally being a men's right advocate and railing on women on Twitter who unironically just hate men, Is he just saying that so he can get dick? People mainly just want to defame him off of lies because he makes their fans shift left.

3.Earl Silverman was the guy who ran the male abuse center you mentioned that ended after he committed suicide. I was making a direct response to your claim, that's why it was relevant.

4.As for what feminism has done for men, A LOT actually. Social movements in general improve the lives of many, as they spread awareness of flaws within society and influence the general populace's opinion on what is "wrong" and what is "right". For example, now that most people are aware that abuse is common and bad, men's rights activists can use this awareness to tell others about their experiences of abuse, and though we have to work on allowing men's emotions to be taken seriously (main point of the vaush video, please watch it,) it's better than a world where abuse and trauma isn't taken seriously in general. Another example would be the existence of abuse shelters. Though it is generally a good thing to point out hypocrisies, such as how there are hundreds of female abuse shelters and virtually no male ones, we wouldn't be having this arguement if abuse shelters didn't exist in the first place. Overall, feminism has spread awareness to issues that men's rights activists can use to their advantage. the men's rights movement would not exist if feminism didn't initially bring awareness to these issues.

5.The petition that was made against the universities decision to ban the MRA meetup was made by feminists. The university, after being told about the types of people apart of the MRA movement, stopped the meet to save their reputation. This isn't an

6.You can be an egalitarian and a feminist. You can be both a men's right advocate and a feminist. You can be both. This isn't a zero-sum game. The idea that you can only be on one side is a false dichotomy, it's like saying you can only like one single flavor of ice cream even though all of them are good.

7.My narrative on how MRA's are unfortunately more focused on being bitter towards feminists than actually discussing issues is correct. Look at the name of this subreddit, scroll down the top posts of any right leaning MRA sub, and look for a post that isn't a response to a feminist. I'm confident you'd find none. Now, let's take an actually effective men's rights sub, like r/menslib. every post actually talks about mens rights issues. Honestly, I think it's impossible to be a men's rights advocate if you're on the right, which according to a poll, a vast majority of users here are. Since right wing politics are the antithesis to progress (tell me one right wing movement in history that actually improved the loves of the commonfolk), communities like this instead fester on the problems and attack imagined enemies instead of looking for actual solutions.

When feminists are saying "children don't need a father" they aren't saying father's are useless. They are responding to the false idea that a child needs to have a man and a women as parents in order to function. You can have two dad's and be ok, you can have two mins and be ok. Everyone on the left understands the detrimental effects of being raised in a single parent household, as it usually means that you're in poverty. Having two parents means you are getting income from two people. That is all they are saying, you are attacking a strawman built from a common misinterpretation of this point.

[–]filmento 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Wildhouse83 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]shaunm1022 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]kjadr 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]png_savvy 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AbsoluteSereniti 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Terminallyonline69 -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]hdlt21 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]rumplton 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Shakespeare-Bot -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]bot-killer-001 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]Terminallyonline69 -13 points-12 points-11 points 4 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link

[–]Total-Category-9451 9 points10 points11 points 4 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]Terminallyonline69 -4 points-3 points-2 points 4 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

Patriarchy is just a term to describe the fact that we live in a male dominated society. People who understand this use the term, as it describes this phenomenon. Scientific journals use this term because it describes an objective fact. I honestly never understand how anyone could possibly disagree with the idea that the patriarchy is real in one breath, and then complain on how women do nothing but stay at home while men go out and work tirelessly in the next. You are complaining about the patriarchy. I agree, it sucks, let's abolish it.

A feminist is someone who wants to abolish this system, to the benefit of both men and women. Child custody cases, for example, are biased heavily towards women, no matter how abusive they are compared to the father, due to the patriarchal belief that a women is a better caretaker than a father. A feminist would want to abolish this antiquated way of thinking, benefitting men. "Women are caretakers and men are workers" would be the exact opposite of feministic thought.

The family dynamic in the Incredibles 2 would probs be a good example of well done feminism, as it breaks the standard patriarchal family dynamic and shows that both parents can support a family in different ways regardless of gender. That's pretty much mainstream feminism at the moment. I find that most anti feminists don't understand this, and instead get mad at things that are directly caused by their own belief system, like cases where women are allowed to get away with sexual assault and rape, and blame it on feminism solely because it involves a women. However, "Women are sex objects and any sort of indication that they want to fuck you is positive", again, is NOT what you'd call a feminist worldview.

Tl;Dr: you already agree that the patriarchy exists if you believe gender roles exist. Everything you complain about is a result of this patriarchal system. It sucks for both men and women, and should be abolished.

[–]Total-Category-9451 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Terminallyonline69 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Terminallyonline69 -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]mcove97 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Terminallyonline69 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

The outdated gender roles are bad because they are patriarchal. Like, we can agree that outdated gender roles are bad for both men and women. Why exactly are they bad? Because they are patriarchal in nature. And the problem with patriarchy is that it's directly opposed to egalitarianism.

I think the problem is that a lot of the kids on this sub take these terms personally instead of seeing the bigger picture, which results in them hating feminists who use the term. The reality is, most feminists believe that patriarchal systems hurt both men and women. Anti-feminists miss all of this and just see red when they hear the term "patriarchy", as if it's some personal attack. It's like they're so close, but miles too far from reaching the truth.

Honestly, if there is a better term to describes the problem with a social system in which men are the "emotionless providers who never cry" and women are "docile, unintelligent childlike caretakers" that won't make people mad, tell me.

Tl;Dr: when people say patriarchy they are not making a personal sleight against you as a man please for the love of god read my entire comment.

[–]WorldController 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The outdated gender roles are bad because they are patriarchal.

You seem to be under the false (and all too common) impression that, just because gender roles originated in patriarchal society and persist in some form today, this means contemporary society is still patriarchal. As I explained here in response to someone expressing similar views:

Patriarchy does influence gender norms, and it has shaped it.

Sure, but this doesn't mean they're the same thing. Just because these norms were fashioned back when society was actually patriarchal does not mean it's retained these patriarchal features to this day.

Saying that "gender norms =/= patriarchy" isnt entirely correct, don't you think?

The term "patriarchy" is variously defined as "a system of society or government in which men hold the power and women are largely excluded from it," "dominance of a society by men, or the values that uphold such dominance," "a society, system, or group in which men dominate women and have the power and authority," etc. Additionally, as I explain here:

"gender" is variously defined as "social norms, attitudes and activities that society deems more appropriate for one sex over another," "attitudes, behaviors, norms, and roles that a society or culture associated with an individual’s sex," "roles, behaviours, activities, attributes and opportunities that any society considers appropriate for girls and boys, and women and men," etc. Basically, gender consists of sex-based behavioral norms, attitudes, and perceptions that govern male and female behavior.

Patriarchy simply refers to male social domination (of women), whereas gender norms regulate the behavior of and apply distinctive rules against both sexes. Not only can the latter exist sans patriarchy or even within a matriarchy, but the former can exist sans the latter, i.e., it's possible in principle for men to dominate women in a genderless society. There is no necessary connection between patriarchy and gender; again, they are not the same thing.

a lot of the kids on this sub

To be sure, such patronizing agism does not reflect well on you or your position.

The reality is, most feminists believe that patriarchal systems hurt both men and women.

I think all but every antifeminist knows that feminists consider sex-based oppression against men to be an element of the "patriarchy." Apparently, you are woefully out of touch with the antifeminist position.

[–]mcove97 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

Honestly, if there is a better term to describes the problem with a social system in which men are the "emotionless providers who never cry" and women are "docile, unintelligent childlike caretakers" that won't make people mad, tell me.

Traditional gender roles. Toxic gender roles. Societal gender roles. Take your pick.

Tl;Dr: when people say patriarchy they are not making a personal sleight against you as a man please for the love of god read my entire comment.

I'm an adult woman FYI, and I read your entire comment. I understand that's not what you think you're doing, but the matter of fact is that a large majority of people perceive the term patriarchy as offensive or inaccurate even if that's not your intention, and as you should know, perception matters. Perception dictates who wanna take part of your cause and advocate with you. If you alienate people from your cause with terms such as patriarchy, perhaps it's time to consider making some changes to the language you use to advocate with.

By using less offensive and more accurate words, you will find that it's way easier to get both men and women to agree with and relate to each other. At least that's my experience as a woman. I consider myself a WRA and MRA, and lots of men agree with me when I debate them precisely cause I don't use inflammatory, loaded or inaccurate words that I know they would feel attacked by or that is outdated. The term patriarchy, by dictionary definitions (look it up) doesn't accurately describe societal gender issues in today's societies very well imo. It may explain where they came from, but...

Most of us don't really live in patriarchies today according to the definition of the term, but sure, you could perhaps make an argument that we are still influenced by it, but that's entirely different. Unfortunately lots of feminists don't make these small but important distinctions, and insist that we all live in a patriarchy today. The country I live in isn't a patriarchy by definition, so that said, poor wording to explain societal gender issues is one of the reasons I'm not a feminist, as feminists cling to and use terms in the wrong context or use them incorrectly, which does more to promote division between different gender advocates than unity between them.

[–]Terminallyonline69 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah I've looked a bit into the history of the term "patriarchy" and found that it was originally an academic term that was eventually used by early feminist movements and turned into common language. Though they most likely expanded the usage of the word (social expectations rather than systematic and governmental, though men do dominate the political sphere today), I can see why people would get mad at the rhetorical use of it. A lot of the words that reactionary people get mad about were originally academic terms too (White privilege, for example), which aren't really that good to use in an average social situation when you're trying to convince someone of a thing.

I'll probably just start saying I'm an egalitarian feminist or just an egalitarian in general. I won't call myself an MRA mainly due to the fact that MRA communities (outside of places like r/minslib and r/leftwingmaleadvocates) usually just talk about how much women are evil and react angrily to perceived attacks against feminists, only using male problems as a tool against them rather than a thing they discuss within their community. Basically, the ONLY time they advocate for men's rights activists is in reaction to female activism. Really the only good thing they do is actively shit on subreddits like r/femaledatingstrategy, but left wing communities do this as well and in a more substantial way.

Meanwhile, most left wing spaces I go to openly talk about men's problems without having to first get mad at a feminists, as most of them are feminists anyways, which is a breath of fresh air. Male suicide rates and unfair custody cases would still exist and probably be worse without the feminist movement, after all, so even if we were to suggest that these movements are completely separate it would still be an insane waste of time and energy to be an anti-feminist. I wish more people would understand that being an effective feminist pretty much REQUIRES you to be an egalitarian (99% of the people on r/askfeminists pretty much agree with this), but alas words and rhetoric confuse many into thinking that men and women must fight against each other instead of work together.

[–]WorldController 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Terminallyonline69 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]WorldController 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I should probably just start saying "a society in which men are heavily expected to be dominant and commanding and in which women are heavily expected to be submissive and docile" instead of "patriarchal", as that probably explains be beliefs better.

That's definitely an improvement. Hopefully, you will now refrain from using the term "patriarchy" in reference to gender norms.

You should also consider how traditionalist gender norms have undergone a dramatic shift since the 1970s, with women taking on powerful positions and even masculine personality traits being more accepted. The current climate is not as simplistic as you're making it out to be.

There are studies like this that explain how the economic pressure has changed the family structure in America over the years if that's what you're asking for

This study concerns the period in America between 1800-2015. Keep in mind that America was indeed patriarchal prior to the 1970s.

The study does not support the claim that post-70s American society has been patriarchal.

[–]mcove97 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Last i checked women dominate certain areas in society as well in many places just like men do, so male dominated society doesn't really mean a whole lot anymore.

Scientific journals made by feminists with an agenda is hardly objective, if that's what you mean.

A feminist is someone who wants to abolish this system, to the benefit of both men and women.

What system? Why not just say abolish traditional gender roles ? Sounds a whole lot more sensible.

Saying we live in a patriarchy comes across as men are oppressors and women are victims, and as a woman I don't appreciate that as much as men don't.

Not to mention, if you look up the definition of patriarchy, it'd hardly applicable to all societies in the world. I myself don't live in a patriarchy by definition, so using patriarchy just undermines the cause feminists are fighting for imo.

[–]mcove97 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]rabatek[S] 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Terminallyonline69 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]rabatek[S] 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Terminallyonline69 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]rabatek[S] 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Terminallyonline69 -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ElWasHeree -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Title	Sigma male vs beta misandrist hivemind
Author	rabatek
Upvotes	61
Comments	62
Date	December 9, 2021 12:46 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/AntiFeminists
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/antifeminists/comments/rcgxxv/sigma_male_vs_beta_misandrist_hivemind/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/AntiFeminists/sigma-male-vs-beta-misandrist-hivemind.1087808 https://theredarchive.com/post/1087808

Comments