Feminism’s Pyrrhic Victory: A Reply to Sara Liben

dermanus · 2013-11-12T00:52:17+00:00

Although this article is specific to Judaism, a lot of it applies to relationships in the West.

The same people who are now bemoaning the fact men won't marry were the ones 15 years ago who said women need men like a fish needs a bicycle.

You made your bed, now lie in it. Or do you expect those 'useless' men to fix it for you?

homo_erector · 2013-11-12T04:14:25+00:00

A lot of unsubstantiated claims in that article. Specifically that conservative Jewish egalitarianism has "made men less valued by constantly bashing or neutralizing male themes and expression while blowing female themes and expression out of proportion." It sounds like a claim about the liturgical changes conservative Judaism has made, but much much more needs to be said. I don't see how taking out a passage thanking God for "not making me a woman" fits the bill here. I also find it a bit ridiculous to claim that men can't have their spiritual needs met unless they are made to feel that there is something "special in Conservative Judaism for which they are needed which women can’t do." I can't say I'm very comfortable with a view of spirituality that derives spiritual meaning from inequality and allotment of special privileges to different classes. Furthermore, even if Judaism was meant to be spiritually structured in such a way, we'd expect separate but clearly defined special religious privileges to make women feel needed as well (assuming Judaism isn't designed to cater exclusively to men's spiritual needs and not women's). However, traditional Judaism doesn't provide that type of role for women in the spiritual domain. Woolf's article is unsubstantiated at best and makes ridiculous and wrongheaded claims about how Judaism grounds its sense of spiritual meaning at worst.

hankhankhank · 2013-11-12T04:15:13+00:00

the article's comments are telling. something i've experienced myself when speaking my thoughts, feelings and reasons for rejecting feminist systems and institutions. they're conflating mr. woolf's proclamation of why men are quitting conservative judaism with some need to subjugate women. the dichotomy posed by a few of the comments ignores the articles finishing words entirely and insist that men are quitting because they don't feel special (think about the menz).

it really is disgusting how this type of thinking is encouraged.

Title	Feminism’s Pyrrhic Victory: A Reply to Sara Liben
Author	bowhunter_fta
Upvotes	11
Comments	7
Date	November 11, 2013 2:57 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1qdmz0/feminisms_pyrrhic_victory_a_reply_to_sara_liben/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/feminisms-pyrrhic-victory-a-reply-to-sara-liben.1159091 https://theredarchive.com/post/1159091

Comments