How Should I Rebut Claims that Robin Thicke's Song Supports Rape?

lextori · 2013-09-19T00:24:09+00:00

Of course it supports rape, just look at the line "the way you grab me, you must want to get nasty". Seriously, she just grabs him without his consent? After that, these victim-blaming feminists start to attack him? The sexual assault victim?

p.s. yes that argument is over-the-top ridiculous, but then again, so is theirs.

anonlymouse · 2013-09-19T03:50:06+00:00

Tell them they're the height of stupid. It's a song about enthusiastic consent. "Go on get at me", he's lamenting the societal rules that a girl who's interested in him can't be more forward about her feelings, and that she's not going to just assume she can get whatever she wants, so he's giving her explicit permission. It's the exact opposite of rape.

You won't convince these stupid feminists (moderately redundant), but, anyone else who hears it will clue in, and will immediately start ignoring any further complaints about it.

moodyone · 2013-09-19T03:12:33+00:00

Let's look at some of the allegedly "rape-ier" bits of that song:

First:

"And that's why I'm gon' take a good girl / I know you want it (x3) / You're a good girl/ [...] Talk about getting blasted / I hate these blurred lines / I know you want it (x3) / But you're a good girl /The way you grab me / Must wanna get nasty."

In this section, the narrator uses the phrase "I know you want it" six times, contrasting it with his belief that "you're a good girl" (three times). The phrase itself recalls the stereotypical rapist's refrain ("I know you want it" or "you know you want it") along with the underlying belief that what the man believes the woman wants is more important than her stated refusal. The implication in the song is that the woman gives the outward appearance of being a "good girl" who won't have sex with him, but the narrator is convinced that this is a ruse, that she "wants it," whatever indications to the contrary notwithstanding. He does say that she "grabs" him in such a way that he believes she "wants to get nasty," but it is not at all clear that we should believe him. The likely but not definite impression is that he's dancing with this woman at a club, in which case grabbing may be contextually appropriate without getting into whether she "wants it." In fact, he repeats the "I know you want it" refrain so many times the listener may begin to think he's just convincing himself. (There must, from context, be some evidence that she doesn't want to sleep with him, as well, or else the song would be about them doing it already, but he doesn't share that with us because he's making a case, not weighing the evidence like an impartial judge who really wants to know the truth.)

Next, the implication that "getting blasted" will resolve the question of whether the woman really wants to have sex is problematic for reasons that should be obvious. People are more likely to shed their sexual inhibitions when drunk, yes, but also much more likely to be raped. Not all drunk sex is rape, but to the narrator, getting blasted provides a resolution not only to his desire to have sex with the woman but to the question of whether she is really "good" or "nasty," which to him is synonymous with whether she wants to have sex with him, in particular. He doesn't consider whether having sex with a woman who is "blasted" might be a bad call. The lyric about "blurred lines" suggests that the line of consent becomes blurred whenever the narrator's (or another man's) belief that a woman wants to fuck him conflicts with her refusal actually to do so.

Then, the lines "Nothing like your last guy, he too square for you He don't smack that ass and pull your hair like that." There are certainly women who like having their asses smacked and their hair pulled by their intimate partners. In the context of the song, though, these lines suggest that the narrator feels that being more violent toward women is a way to induce women who are sending him at best mixed signals that to have sex with him. The woman's possible BDSM preferences are hardly knowable, after all, to a man she hasn't even had sex with but is probably just dancing at the club with.

If you want to rebut the claim that the song supports rape, you either have to disprove arguments similar to the above, or you have to argue that the song is about rape but not itself rape-y. I think you'd have better luck with the second one. Assuming that the songwriter or artist supports a viewpoint simply because the narrator of the song does may not be correct. You're too young to remember, but in the early 1990s, critics relied on what's called the autobiographical fallacy to impugn Ice-T over his Copkiller song. Similarly, a year or two later, Nirvana was horrified when some drunk frat boys gang raped a woman while singing their song Polly, which had been intended as a protest song about rape, not an endorsement. If you don't think the song supports the same attitudes that lead to sexual violence against women*, what attitudes or messages do you think it reflects? Is it inviting a dialogue on the issue of sexual consent? What is the point of it?

*not that sexual violence only happens against women, just that this particular song is unlikely to be construed as endorsing the rape of men.

Edit: also, making jokes about fellatio are not demeaning to women, unless the jokes are demeaning to women for some other reason than simply having to do with fellatio. If I'm wrong, I'm demeaning women like 50 times a day because I have a sense of humor like a thirteen-year-old boy. It is totally possible to be a feminist woman who makes jokes about blow jobs and also thinks certain songs are rape-y. However, I hope you won't fall into the trap of rejecting rational arguments because they come from the same source as shitty ones.

rightsbot · 2013-09-18T22:32:17+00:00

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Pornography_saves_li · 2013-09-19T01:27:05+00:00

Agree and amplify. Tell them you thought you were the only one who lay awake nights worried about rape culture. Be over the top 'church lady' in demeanour. Then feign hyper interest in anything they say after that, ESPECIALLY if it's them trying to dress you down for not taking them seriously. If a teacher gets involved, do the same thing. If a Principal gets involved, look at him/her and say 'how about I videotape all the man hate going on around here and make a documentary for YouTube?'

Then smile as you walk casually back to class. And expect changes in teacher behaviour and tolerance almost immediately.

2013-09-19T04:25:12+00:00

I wouldn't even try. They've already decided they know the truth, and won't approach the discussion with an open mind. A teacher told me part of her philosophy teaching was, "never try and teach a pig to sing. You'll get frustrated and annoy the pig."

moodyone · 2013-09-18T23:04:37+00:00

Simply post the lyrics to the song and asking them point out the bits that support rape.

They will fail.

Captaincastle · 2013-09-19T00:10:24+00:00

Laughter is my go to

Title	How Should I Rebut Claims that Robin Thicke's Song Supports Rape?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	6
Comments	15
Date	September 18, 2013 10:30 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1mo8do/how_should_i_rebut_claims_that_robin_thickes_song/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/how-should-i-rebut-claims-that-robin-thickes-song.1163519 https://theredarchive.com/post/1163519

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