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[–]MayaMordle 14 points15 points16 points 7 years ago (64 children) | Copy Link
forgiveness is a virtue
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (54 children) | Copy Link
I'm willing to forgive most things. Genital mutilation isn't one of them.
[–]alclarkey 15 points16 points17 points 7 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link
I think circumcision is wrong, and I think most people did it to their boys out of ignorance, not malice. You're not going to change a lot of minds and end the practice if you come at people with anger, anger they don't deserve.
[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link
Their sons didn't deserve the mutilation either.
I say, an eye for an eye.
[–]alclarkey 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/mens_rea
Can't be guilty of a crime without malice. Most of the circumcisions were done from ignorance not malice. I'm not going to enable your hate and extremism.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link
Then why do people who accidentally kill pedestrians with their car while completely sober still have to face legal consequences?
[–]alclarkey 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
Was I stuttering when I said "Uncommon negligence"?
[–]Mackowatosc 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
"Uncommon negligence" like not realising that removing a healthy body part of an infant is deterimental to them?
[–]alclarkey 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That's common unfortunately.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
Even if they weren't being negligent and it was just a tragic accident, they still face some kind of punishment.
I'm not saying that "regret moms" belong in Guantanamo, but they should face some sort of punishment.
[–]alclarkey 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
If they do it in contravention of a law then yes they are guilty.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
They're morally guilty in my opinion, even if they meant no harm and are not legally culpable for anything.
[–]Mackowatosc -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
So if im ignorant of a criminal justice system, then I can commit a murder and im good to go?
Ignorance saves you from nothing. You must face all consequences of your actions, no matter why you commited said actions. No exceptions, no mercy, no leniency.
[–]alclarkey 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link
Well since circumcision isn't illegal, this is a false equivalence.
Like I told the other guy, motive matters. If it's legal, and everyone around you is telling you that it's good for your son and society to do it, and even pushing you to get it done, how can you possibly be guilty?
[–]Mackowatosc 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Then we should not be so pissed off about FGM, because where its still being done, its exactly that: its legal, and everyone aroud says its good.
I didn't say that we shouldn't be pissed off about circumcision, just that the people who have already done it aren't guilty of anything.
[–]Schadrach 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Whether or not you planned it and whether or not you intended it to happen will definitely change what crime it's considered and how you should be punished.
[–]MayaMordle -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (32 children) | Copy Link
But everybody does it. could you imagine if every male American hated their mother.
[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago (31 children) | Copy Link
Closer to 3/4 of adult American males. All of those mothers deserve the hatred, though.
[–]alclarkey 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link
No they don't. And the fathers were involved too.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link
Yes, they do. It doesn't matter why they did it, it matters that they did it.
Just like people who accidentally run over children in their car still get punished for it, even if they didn't mean to.
[–]alclarkey 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link
They get punished for uncommon negligence. Circumcision is pretty common.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link
That doesn't make it right. If every parent who had to do it was fined say $20,000 per kid they inflicted it on, the circumcision rate would drop to virtually 0% overnight.
[–]alclarkey 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link
Sure, for the ones who do it when it is illegal, but we do grandfather clauses in this country for all sorts of crimes, and again, Mens Rea.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link
Who cares if they were malicious? It's completely irrelevant.
It doesn't change the damage done.
It's high time our legal system stop looking at motivations and circumstance, and start to only look at the impact and the damage done.
[–]MayaMordle 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
every parent who has to do it is fines $400. that is why the circumcision rate is so high.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Insurance pays for it in most states.
[–]Mackowatosc 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Its more like bodily harm and sexual assault, for me.
[–]MayaMordle 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
They are just following orders and convention.
the hatred should fall on the medical community in general and whoever invented the procedure in the first place.
their overbearing mothers are the ones who shamed them into becoming a doctor instead of a violinist like they wanted to
hate their mothers.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
No, mothers who circumcised their sons are the ones to blame.
And as far as I'm concerned, there's no difference between a "regret mother" and an unrepentant circumciser. The effect on their son is the same.
If I was a leader of intactivism, I'd tell all the "regret mothers" to pack their bags and take a walk.
[–]MayaMordle -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
how come only you are affected by this and not other American males who just cum and cum and cum all the time.
If you think I'm the only one affected by this, you haven't seen r/foreskin_restoration
[–]MayaMordle 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I'll check that out. thanks.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
:)
[–]Mackowatosc 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
Forgiving a woman achieves nothing. Its way profitable and efficient to be vengefull.
[–]MayaMordle 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
profitable and efficient?
[–]Mackowatosc 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Efficient = easier and faster. Profitable = achieves end goal of her not fucking you over again.
Especially if you remove her from your life afterwards too.
[–]MayaMordle 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
please don't kill anyone
[–]Mackowatosc 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Lolwhat? Where did you get that from?
you said you were going to remove people from life
[–]Mackowatosc 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
From my life. I.e. cutting out relationship with them. Not their heads off.
Tldr...reading with understanding, 101.
[–]MayaMordle 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
oops yeah. if people are shitty you should cut them out of your life.
[–]Urishima 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
But keep your axe sharp. You know, just in case.
[–]Lion_amongst_gods 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Women are the primary victims of circumcision. They lose their fathers, brothers and sons to it. /s
lol :)
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
Obviously I don't think regret moms are actually victims, rather I sill see them as perpetrators, and don't think they should be forgiven ever.
[–]codaclouds9 points 7 years ago [recovered] (10 children) | Copy Link
i tend to agree they don't deserve forgiveness, and that's for their own sons to decide for themselves anyway, but these people do play an important part in ending the "practice" (have to laugh at that choice of words), so it's not beneficial to think of them as perpetrators when they really were scammed by the medical industrial complex and the intentional, concentrated effort to keep american society stupid and obeying whatever "authority" says. yes, they were complicit in their stupidity, but they are not the TRUE perpetrators of this crime.
[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
They still chose to do it, and don't deserve to be let off the hook.
Their sons will have to live the rest of their lives with mutilated genitals and an almost total lack of sexual pleasure, so it's more than fair for them to have to live the rest of their lives with nothing but guilt and neverending emotional pain, and no relationship with their sons.
You reap what you sow.
[–]codaclouds3 points 7 years ago [recovered] (8 children) | Copy Link
not saying they shouldn't feel guilty or ashamed. just that they are not the actual enemy and nothing will come from directing hatred at parents, while the medical industrial complex is guilty of mutilating and killing people right now.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
If we make an example of some mutilating parents, it might encourage expecting parents to think twice.
And "regret moms" deserve to feel crushing depression and guilt and self-hatred and shame until the day that they die.
And if it were up to me, all "regret parents" would be permabanned from the intactivist movement. They don't belong.
[–]codaclouds4 points 7 years ago [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link
but that won't stop crooked doctors, who should be thrown in jail
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Doctors need parental consent to do it.
[–]codaclouds0 points 7 years ago [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link
sounds like you're defending doctors. pretty sketch.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
At least I'm not defending "regret moms"
[–]codaclouds1 points 7 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
so since talking to you is a waste of time, i'm going to just clarify to anyone who might be reading: this person is intentionally encouraging people to focus on the wrong enemy. is that a sound tactic to end circumcision? or is it a sound tactic to divide people who share a common goal and thus ensure nothing changes? think about it.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Honestly asking... do a lot of men have serious issues or complications from having been circumcised?
I was circumcised as an infant and never really thought about it until I saw it in context like this, as a social issue.
I’ve had no problems, no medical complications, no issues with sex or orgasm, but I’m one man.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It reduces sensitivity and is a traumatic experience for the baby, but the biggest reason it's a problem is because it denies the owner of the penis any input into whether or not he'd like half of it amputated.
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[–]MayaMordle 14 points15 points16 points (64 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points (54 children) | Copy Link
[–]alclarkey 15 points16 points17 points (20 children) | Copy Link
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[–]MayaMordle -1 points0 points1 point (32 children) | Copy Link
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[–]alclarkey 3 points4 points5 points (24 children) | Copy Link
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