I have issues when it comes to women and I need help.

seddithelpme123 · 2016-04-20T18:37:04+00:00

So a little backstory. I'm a 25 y/o male and I'm a virgin who rarely if ever gets a date (think I can count on one hand the number of dates...

[–][deleted] 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]seddithelpme123[S] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Moderatorrecyclablebanthas 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

[–]seddithelpme123[S] 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Moderatorrecyclablebanthas 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]seddithelpme123[S] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Moderatorrecyclablebanthas 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Aeon199 -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago* (12 children) | Copy Link

Consider if a guy who is generally doing his best in life can't get women (seems to be the OP's situation).. it's unlikely to improve much. Here you are offering a suggestion that is likely to make no difference, and you probably know it.

It would be worth it for you to consider that social difficulty (even simple introversion) is hardwired and universally unattractive to women.

Your optimistic approach seems to bear no fruit. I've seen a lot of stories like the OP's here. "Good life, a lot of friends, steady career, trying hard... but the women don't want me." It's clear that the problem with most of these guys is some kind of social difficulty or lack of wits, that cannot be improved. Your optimism fails, my friend!

If you want to change my mind, give me an anecdote about a social loser who turned it around and scored with women. I guarantee you that you have no such accounts to offer.

[–]seddithelpme123[S] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Moderatorrecyclablebanthas 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

He doesn't have one. He is unfortunately in a state where he can't or won't see other possibilities beyond where he is personally at. Everyone, in his mind, is either hopelessly where he is, due to genetics or something, or they are one of the few social elite who magically get handed everything just......'cause.

He just read a post by a guy who got laid after almost hitting 30 years of age, after years of awkwardness. His reaction: "It was handed to you on a platter." This, despite the details in the post which outlined a ton of things that OP did right, to create the situation which occurred.

Then he says we could change his mind if only we had an anecdote about a social loser who turned it around and scored with women? Whether or not he'll observe this inconsistency and reflect on it, is another matter.

[–]Aeon199 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Moderatorrecyclablebanthas 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Consider if a guy who is generally doing his best in life can't get women (seems to be the OP's situation).. it's unlikely to improve much.

You literally can't know whether it's likely or unlikely to improve. I have seen people, including myself and some of my friends, improve from being really socially awkward, to having success socially and in dating.

So you're allowing bias to come into your judgement here.

Here you are offering a suggestion that is likely to make no difference, and you probably know it.

I am literally offering a suggestion that was key in my own improvement and in the improvement of several other people I know. Some really awkward people in this bunch. I personally lived at home during the time I improved, coincidentally.

You have a choice here, man. Consider that "seduction" isn't alchemy....... it's just being social, and it can be learned if one doesn't already know it.

Or Continue to dismiss anything that could possibly lead you to the conclusion that you could do anything to change your life for the better and spend all your energy being negative. Honestly, that sounds freaking exhausting and I really wish you were not stuck.

It would be worth it for you to consider that social difficulty (even simple introversion) is hardwired and universally unattractive to women.

Simple introversion is NOT "universally unattractive" to women. This doesn't pass the Laugh Test. Most of my friends growing up, were girls. You hear things in that situation. LOTS of girls pining after that quiet guy in the corner. Have you never heard of the attraction of being "mysterious?" Have you never noticed that girls like to chase sometimes?

Consider that the thing which is actually universally unattractive to everyone is such a terrible attitude. People trying to help you and you see them as actually insulting you. People are happy and you consider it an affront and tell them they need to be adopting your attitude.

If you want to change me mind, give me an anecdote about a social loser who turned it around and scored with women. I guarantee you that you have no such accounts to offer.

You are ridiculous. You just read a post by the guy who got laid for the first time and your response was basically that the guy somehow had it easy even though he was pushing 30 before he managed to figure out how it works.

No, in your mind, somehow life was being handed over to this guy on a platter.

It doesn't matter that I, or others here were social losers. I personally couldn't get laid with help before I turned it around. I dragged others down around me. I was absolutely pathetic and rather negative like you at one point. I got sick of it and started fumbling in the dark until I made progress.

[–]Aeon199 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

"You are ridiculous. You just read a post by the guy who got laid for the first time and your response was basically that the guy somehow had it easy even though he was pushing 30 before he managed to figure out how it works."

Once again I did no such thing. I actually sent that guy a congratulatory PM and I wanted to know a few other details, but he didn't reply yet.

"It doesn't matter that I, or others here were social losers. I personally couldn't get laid with help before I turned it around. I dragged others down around me. I was absolutely pathetic and rather negative like you at one point. I got sick of it and started fumbling in the dark until I made progress."

It does actually matter, and I have been inspired before.

But as you may expect, the degree of "loser-dom" matters. How were your looks, money, status at the time you first got laid? I mean if you had graduated college with a STEM degree, you're tall and naturally handsome, and you had a busy social life when you first got laid.. well, it's not as inspiring to me as it would be if you were still low status.

And the reason for that is some guys cannot be high achievers with a good job and busy social life. I've already explained my reasons for that.. at least, for me these things will be "highly unlikely."

But I believe you are correct on your assertion that social skills and game can be improved, looks can be improved with exercise/gym, etc. The question that remains is when and how I will take the plunge to do all those things. I keep thinking it's not worth it because 1) low status will remain, anyway 2) girls are highly selective and it would suck be rejected perpetually, until I finally have to accept I was low value, after all.

[–]Moderatorrecyclablebanthas 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

But as you may expect, the degree of "loser-dom" matters. How were your looks, money, status at the time you first got laid?

Looks, money, and status are not terribly important to game in the end. Confidence and the direction of your life make a big difference.

I was rather poor and living at home when I started gaming.

Looks are a subjective thing. Some girls have no interest in me. Some think I'm attractive. And I usually have no idea who is who until I get in there.

I had a friend who was generally considered really unattractive by everyone who knew him. Even himself. And yet I constantly witnessed this guy pull off feats of game, some of which I've never seen duplicated.

He picked up on a girl while they were driving next to each other on the freeway. He picked up on another girl while she was working a shift at a strip club.

This guy was overweight, had an overbite, weak chin, and wide set eyes. All the girls he hooked up, that I talked to, said they didn't understand exactly why they went for him. There was just something about him.

And that's related to the part of you that can be developed.

This money, status, looks thing.... It's bullshit. I had an NBA wife ready to cheat on his baller husband with me. When I lived at home and she even knew I was only working a low wage job because I picked up on her while I was working.

It's something else that's important: what you provide. How you make people feel. But if you are in a negative state....how are you going to make others around you feel good?

I've already explained my reasons for that.. at least, for me these things will be "highly unlikely."

The way this works, frustratingly enough, is that this will be true, as long as you believe it.

The beginning of the way out, is believing that it's neither highly likely or unlikely. It's usually in the middle somewhere.

But I believe you are correct on your assertion that social skills and game can be improved......I keep thinking it's not worth it because

Well first off, don't do it for girls, or you're already building a fragile foundation. Improve your life because it's good for you.

Having a healthy body just feels good. You can move around more freely and enjoy things better.

And ALL that "game" is, is being social. That's the heart of it. It's about making connections. A guy who shoots the shit with an old lady in a grocery store line, is using the same skills a guy is using to pick up on a girl in the club.

Improving game, will lead to a better social life and social circles. And if you're introverted, there are ways to connect that don't have to be exhausting.

1) low status will remain, anyway

Status is not a thing. Of course there are gold diggers but most women out there only care that you can take care of yourself or that you have a direction in life.

Having a direction in life is good, regardless of "game."

2) girls are highly selective and it would suck be rejected perpetually, until I finally have to accept I was low value, after all.

People are selective. Even you would not date just anyone. You have preferences. Right off the bat I'll assume that gay men would have no chance with you.

Think about that for a minute. Right now there's a gay man out there who would want to be with you, and it'll be impossible for him. Would that mean that no gay men would go for him?

Everyone has their market and when they go for people outside their "market," they can very easily feel like those people are "highly selective."

NO. It's not that. It's just that some people have their preferences and your whole energy is pushing women away who might otherwise be interested.

[–]Aeon199 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

"And ALL that game is, is being social. That's the heart of it. It's about making connections. A guy who shoots the shit with an old lady in a grocery store line, is using the same skills a guy is using to pick up on a girl in the club. Improving game, will lead to a better social life and social circles. And if you're introverted, there are ways to connect that don't have to be exhausting."

But I cannot tolerate socializing in groups. Generally I cannot stand it.

And I can't keep up with the responsibilities of having a group of friends, or be expected to go out with them.

Dude, most of these things are just not happening. Have you ever heard of Executive Dysfunction? I suffer from that severely. In the worst possible way. I mean I have diagnosed ADD and social anxiety, a few autistic traits... I'm definitely "delayed" in several ways. I have average intelligence but that doesn't mean anything.

But at this point you will tell me I'm making things up for sympathy, so why should I bother telling you?

If you want to help, suggest reasonable ways around these blockades, please. (I've been to therapy for years and it made no difference, by the way.)

"Status is not a thing. Of course there are gold diggers but most women out there only care that you can take care of yourself or that you have a direction in life."

I'm hygienic, and such. But I'm not independent at all.

I don't have a direction in life, because of what I said above. I'm not independent. Essentially, I'm not good at anything because of mostly genetic reasons.

Am I supposed to act optimistic and lie to women? "I'm independent, I'm ambitious, I have a lot of friends," etc. I mean WTF. My life is not going to become that way, which leaves lying, as the only option.

"It's just that some people have their preferences and your whole energy is pushing women away who might otherwise be interested."

I won't have my life together, so.. no women would be interested, there is "no" market for a guy like me.

Nature has selected another loser (me) and it's mostly genetic, as you can see.

I have a lot of guys here telling me I should go to the gym and get buff. Let's say I work hard on that and get buff. But then, I would probably still have no status and no social connections.

Think about it. What guy with my life would even want social connections? I'm a guy in his 30s with no prospects, living at home. I'd be embarrassed to tell even some other guy about my life.

So, now you can see, there is nothing I can do.

Losers will be losers.

[–]Moderatorrecyclablebanthas 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

But I cannot tolerate socializing in groups. Generally I cannot stand it.

Can you describe the source of your lack of toleration? In any case, I never specified groups. You will notice that both of my examples were one on one. Of course, the concepts can be utilized in groups or one on one, but you don't need to do it in groups.

And I can't keep up with the responsibilities of having a group of friends, or be expected to go out with them.

Responsibilities? It is a choice to look at it this way. Friendship is not a burden. It is two people who do for each other. Why? Because we get something out of the exchange. Maybe someone has a helpful point of view that the other does not. Maybe one person has a talent that the other person does not, but admires. Maybe a person just feels good about someone's whole energy.

But it's not supposed to be a chore. Nor do all people feel the need to go out in public and be surrounded by people.

Dude, most of these things are just not happening. Have you ever heard of Executive Dysfunction? I suffer from that severely. In the worst possible way. I mean I have diagnosed ADD and social anxiety, a few autistic traits... I'm definitely "delayed" in several ways. I have average intelligence but that doesn't mean anything.

Have you gotten a professional diagnosis of executive dysfunction? Did you get a 2nd opinion on that diagnosis? Have you been to therapy? If so, what kind of therapists?

But at this point you will tell me I'm making things up for sympathy, so why should I bother telling you?

The worst problem I see in your posts/comments is a propensity for assuming what others think. I personally have patience but many people struggle because life is not always easy and when they meet someone who assumes so much negativity, they'll reject them out of hand.

Ironic part is, without those negative assumptions, rejection would not be 100% But with the assumptions, rejection WILL be 100%. It's under your control though.

If you want to help, suggest reasonable ways around these blockades, please. (I've been to therapy for years and it made no difference, by the way.)

I'm hygienic, and such. But I'm not independent at all. I don't have a direction in life, because of what I said above. I'm not independent. Essentially, I'm not good at anything because of mostly genetic reasons."

A direction in life can be forged. Unless you don't want to. No one can force you to.

Genetic reasons? Look, life can really be shit sometimes. Look at Stephen Hawking. The man is a drooling shell of a man who can't move on his own. He's needed an attendant for most of his life.

But he persisted when doctors told him that he would die in TWO years. Decades later, he has fathered children and gone on to do a lot of work.

So unless you've recently gotten a diagnosis of impending death and you are already living in hospice care, with a terminal illness, you still have opportunities.

Am I supposed to act optimistic and lie to women? "I'm independent, I'm ambitious, I have a lot of friends," etc. I mean WTF. My life is not going to become that way, which leaves lying, as the only option.

More crap YOU are allowing to circulate in your own head. No one can help you with that except you. You control your thoughts. Not the other way around.

Optimism is not lying. Cut the crap. Unless you're literally dying NOW, you have options. You're just choosing to wallow in a diagnosis of executive dysfunction and you're treating it as if you're already dead.

But you're not. And you're apparently pretty well read, despite your claims of "average intelligence." Have you not read about the Dunning Kruger Effect? It describes people who are too cocky about their abilities because they lack the tools to realize they are lacking.

But people who think they are only average (such as yourself), are often only being TOO cautious in their own estimation of their abilities.

I won't have my life together, so.. no women would be interested, there is "no" market for a guy like me. Nature has selected another loser (me) and it's mostly genetic, as you can see.

All I see is someone making the choice to keep calling himself a loser. I can't help you if you don't make the choice to help yourself.

No one can help you unless you get tired of beating on yourself.

I have a lot of guys here telling me I should go to the gym and get buff. Let's say I work hard on that and get buff. But then, I would probably still have no status and no social connections.

They're projecting. It doesn't matter what you do. Just that you start doing something you can be proud of.

[–]Aeon199 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Moderatorrecyclablebanthas 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]seddithelpme123[S] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm able to interact with female coworkers at work (although they're mid-30s) and it's usually strictly for work but I noticed I'm still fairly reserved when talking to them compared to when I'm talking with guys whereas I can be myself if that makes sense. And it's weird because I don't find these women attractive nor have any interest in them.

I will still try some club with women in it (thinking dance at this point as it'll force me to interact and touch women). Even if I get comfortable interacting with them non-sexually, I still think I'll have trouble asking girls out on a date or being flirty in my conversations like some of you are on this sub. I just don't have "game".

I remember there was one time I told a girl she was pretty at a bus terminal and I was a nervous wreck (I don't even know how I got the balls to do it) and she looked at me like I was some freak and walked away with no words spoken. I groom myself, take care of my physique, and am at least average-looking so I'm not sure what happened there.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's not about game. Its about understanding and appreciating yourself and making it easy for others to see that (grooming, hygiene, working out etc.) It's about understanding that women are not anything special. It's about understanding that EVERYONE gets rejected, everyone. Not everyone will like you, and you will not like everyone. So rejection is in a way a good thing, it helps you save time and saves you the trouble of being with someone incompatible.

As for your example, there is nothing inherently repulsive about you, but that women have been conditioned by society to fear strange men. So in any encounter with women, you have to seem non threatening, and first bring down her barriers before you can have any meaningful interaction with her. So in a weird way, first you have to show that you are NOT interested in her sexually, at least until she is comfortable with you. After she is comfortable with you and feels save, then you have to EXPRESS your sexuality and let her know that you desire her.

Title	I have issues when it comes to women and I need help.
Author	seddithelpme123
Upvotes	9
Comments	21
Date	April 20, 2016 6:37 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/4foti5/i_have_issues_when_it_comes_to_women_and_i_need/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/i-have-issues-when-it-comes-to-women-and-i-need.1405676 https://theredarchive.com/post/1405676

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