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FWB asks "How do you feel about us?"

I_DONT_REPLY · 2018-08-13T14:20:29+00:00

Sometimes a FWB I've hooked up with multiple times before would ask "How do you feel about us?", "What are we?", "Are you seeing...

I_DONT_REPLY

August 13, 2018

1 upvotes

/r/seduction

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Post Information

Title	FWB asks "How do you feel about us?"
Author	I_DONT_REPLY
Upvotes	1
Comments	22
Date	August 13, 2018 2:20 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/96yopl/fwb_asks_how_do_you_feel_about_us/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/fwb-asks-how-do-you-feel-about-us.1451624 https://theredarchive.com/post/1451624

Comments

[–]hunterpua 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago* (13 children) | Copy Link

Seeing other girls should be brought up in the beginning.

If you have sex before you can bring it up then talk to a girl about your situation after the second time you have sex. The first time can be a one night stand, the second is when she wonders where this is going so answer that question for her. Tell her you're seeing other girls too and see whether she is ok with that or not so that if she decides to be an FWB she will make the decision being fully aware of what's up.

If an FWB thinks about having something more with you then be honest with what you want. If you want to be with her exclusively then tell her you have to think about it and come back once you've made a clear decision to be exclusive. If you want to keep seeing other girls then say something like, "I don't know whether you're ok with how things are right now or if you want something more but I want to know. Right now I want to let you know where I'm at. You're great. I really like you, you are (list things you like about her) but I'm not at the point yet where I want to settle down. I know we started out casually and I want to keep it that way but I'll understand if that's not what you want anymore." and let her decide.

You might lose her when you do this or you might keep her. What's important is that like when you were first seducing her, you read into her body more than her words. So if she says she doesn't mind staying casual but seems very bummed about it then you should be the one to end things with her.

You need to look at the long term with this. Sure you lose an FWB but by "breaking up before shit hits the fan" you're more likely to keep her as a friend. Not only does that raise the likelihood of you getting back together but having a former FWB as a good female friend helps a lot when it comes to getting new girls. For one, new girls will no longer have the excuse of friendzoning you and saying, "I don't want to lose our friendship" because you can just point to your former FWB who is a girl you slept with but are still friends with. Also, if you treat your FWB right then she will be more than happy to help with your dating life. Just don't be selfish, help her with new guys too.

[–]I_DONT_REPLY 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for the insight. I think your advice is sound, but there are factors not applicable to my specific situation that I hope you can help clear out:

(1) Time. I've hooked up with this girl ONCE and hung out with her TWO times. She invests a lot in me, and I think we have a strong connection but (a) I don't trust my post-coital emotions and (b) I don't know her long enough to make an accurate assessment of whether she is FWB or Relationship material.

Question: How long should I wait (I don't want to rush)? What should I screen for? How should I screen? There's no right answer but general guidelines would be helpful.

(2) Scarcity. I won't lie, she's the only girl I've had sex with in a long time and not for lack of trying. I also accept my weakness: I'm not too experienced in the bedroom. Having her in my life will undoubtedly improve my emotional/physical wellbeing at this juncture and help me hone my skills sexually and emotionally dealing with females. At this juncture, I see an opportunity where a relationship can be beneficial for my personal growth.

(3) FWB vs Relationships: I'm also not sure where to draw the line between these two. I enjoy cuddling and pillowtalk. I enjoy spending time after sex for breakfast. I enjoy the PDA when seen in public. I don't mind texting a girl intermittently afterward (maybe 2-3 texts a day). Am I giving off a FWB/boyfriend vibe? That being said, just out of my aloof personality I always invest less than her.

She's raised this question through text (she's temporarily away from the country making for a non-ideal situation). To which I've responded "I think what we have is pretty special. But I'm not too worried about our future, things always work out in the end". To which she replies "I think so too. I'm not too worried because not worrying about it feels good". I think I handled it alright, but could use a second opinion.

[–]hunterpua 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago* (11 children) | Copy Link

(1) Time. I've hooked up with this girl ONCE and hung out with her TWO times. She invests a lot in me, and I think we have a strong connection but (a) I don't trust my post-coital emotions and (b) I don't know her long enough to make an accurate assessment of whether she is FWB or Relationship material.

She's definitely FWB material. Getting into an exclusive relationship after only having sex once and hanging out twice is moving way too fast. She isn't even your FWB at this point, she's just some girl you hooked up with one time. My advice for the immediate next steps is to fuck her more times so you can see if she's actually down to keep seeing you in a sexual context because you'll need that whether you guys will be FWBs or in a monogamy.

How to know if she's relationship material

3 things need to be present. Physical Attraction, Emotional Attraction, and Logical Attraction.

You guys have the physical because you both wanted to fuck each other at least once.

Emotional is when you can connect beyond surface level. That means even if you like 2 different things you 'get' why each of you does what you do and even if you wouldn't necessarily be into it yourself you can appreciate it.

For example a girl I used to date was really into makeup. Obviously as a guy I could care the fuck less about that stuff but by the way she talked about it, I could relate and appreciate the feeling she gets and I loved listening to her and seeing what she could do with make-up. She made me feel about it very similar to how I feel about game. "Perception hacking" is what I called it.

Logical attraction basically means there is nothing major keeping you apart. The blood feud between Romeo and Juliet's families meant they had no logical attraction and had to fight to the death just to make it work.

So things like working in very different industries, having plans for the next few years that'll move you physically apart (like moving to new cities), one of you being way too busy for the other, etc are things that hinder logical attraction. If you guys can physically be together without much effort on either side then you have logical attraction.

If you don't have all 3, you should just be FWBs.

Heed my words, you can "force" or trick yourself into believing there is emotional attraction and logical attraction out of desperation but that will come back to bite you in the ass, hard.

If you jump into a relationship with a girl that doesn't fulfill all 3 criteria and put all your eggs in that basket, it will not help you. You will come out of the relationship worse than you came into it. Think toxic relationships, cheating, lying, possibly even domestic abuse.

(2) Scarcity. I won't lie, she's the only girl I've had sex with in a long time and not for lack of trying. I also accept my weakness: I'm not too experienced in the bedroom. Having her in my life will undoubtedly improve my emotional/physical wellbeing at this juncture and help me hone my skills sexually and emotionally dealing with females.

Scarcity is the absolute worst reason to get into a relationship! Your partner must not complete you, you must be complete long before you get a partner.

In sports there is an expression that goes, "The championship makes the champion."

That means the guy holding the title only looks cool because he's holding it, not because he's actually recognized to be amazing. Its when "world champion" holds more weight than his actual name.

For the opposite of that think Conor McGregor or Floyd Mayweather. You don't give a fuck what championship he holds, he's Floyd fucking Mayweather. A title doesn't elevate him, Floyd elevates whatever title he holds.

For relationships, you don't want to be a better man because you have a GF. You want to be a fucking awesome man on your own so that girls are the one's who fight to be your GF.

At this juncture, I see an opportunity where a relationship can be beneficial for my personal growth.

Yeah, a casual relationship. You can sure as hell improve your sex skills and experience around women when you have an FWB, you can do that even more when you have multiple FWBs.

(3) FWB vs Relationships: I'm also not sure where to draw the line between these two. I enjoy cuddling and pillowtalk. I enjoy spending time after sex for breakfast. I enjoy the PDA when seen in public.

I enjoy that too. But just don't do the PDA stuff. The top priority here is your personal development. PDAs are just like candy when you're trying to get a 6-pack, they're definitely nice but you'd be better off without them because they will get in the way of your FWB situation.

Even breakfast and cuddling can be risky so pay attention, if girls seem to get too lovey dovey then you should slow down on that stuff because a girl developing serious feelings is what destorys an FWB relationship.

Friends with benefits should be based purely on sex.

The ideal FWB to have is one who only has physical and logical attraction.

You can even stop emotional attraction from forming by actively avoiding opportunities to create an emotional connection.

Of course if you have a girl that only has the physical or only has physical and emotional but really bad logical like if she's only in your city for a month then its fine. She'll be gone soon anyway.

At this point in your life, if you find a girl that solidly has all 3 criteria then it'd be best for you to friendzone her.

Yes, you friendzone her. Don't be afraid of that. Its totally different when you're the one doing the friendzoning. Think about it, when you get friendzoned you still worry about figuring out how to get out of it. If you do that to a girl, she'll be the one worrying about getting out.

She's raised this question through text (she's temporarily away from the country making for a non-ideal situation). To which I've responded "I think what we have is pretty special. But I'm not too worried about our future, things always work out in the end". To which she replies "I think so too. I'm not too worried because not worrying about it feels good". I think I handled it alright, but could use a second opinion.

I don't think you should have called it special. You could have said, "I definitely like you but I think thats something to talk about when you get back." because whenever you give a girl too much too soon they can flip on you and suddenly lose interest. She may have genuinely felt good in that moment when you were messaging each other but what matters more than how she feels in the moment is how she feels in the hours, days, and weeks after that moment.

If we look at a cold approach, even a cold approach done badly but enough to get her number makes her feel really good in the moment. Its the shifting of emotions after the cold approach that makes her flake.

When you tell a girl what you have with her is special after the very little you've done together she will feel like that's all she needed to get you, just hang out twice and fuck once. Its a recipe for getting taken for granted and her losing interest. All that takes time to sink in and will start to sink in for her way after you had that discussion about your future.

[–]I_DONT_REPLY 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

Hey man, first of all thanks for taking the time out. I agree with your overall message and my key takeaway is:

She's currently only FWB material. To advance into a serious relationship would require more time (2-3 months of sex and hanging out, screening her ability to augment/enhance my own personal development: physically, emotionally, and logically)
Scarcity issue is something I need to work on. Will be branching out on more girls in the meantime.

But here's where I could use a bit of guidance:

PDAs are just like candy when you're trying to get a 6-pack, they're definitely nice but you'd be better off without them because they will get in the way of your FWB situation.

You can even stop emotional attraction from forming by actively avoiding opportunities to create an emotional connection.

Yes, you friendzone her. Don't be afraid of that. Its totally different when you're the one doing the friendzoning. Think about it, when you get friendzoned you still worry about figuring out how to get out of it. If you do that to a girl, she'll be the one worrying about getting out.

Why would I want that? She's actively investing in me (she's always the first to make the move physically, emotionally, and logistically sending me texts and buying me gifts). It would make sense for me to reward her accordingly to keep her investing in me.

This is the way I see it -- I have three moves: (1) Punish her: push her hand away; (2) Neutral: allow her to make those moves but not reciprocate, (3) Reward her: pull her closer. I have no incentive to punish her unless I want to kick her out of my life. If I want to keep her in orbit, moves (2) and (3) make the most sense. Is this incorrect?

I also don't see why I should friendzone her and you didn't elaborate further. Sex increases her level of investment in me, and it's something I enjoy, of course I would let that happen.

I don't think you should have called it special. You could have said, "I definitely like you but I think thats something to talk about when you get back."

She may have genuinely felt good in that moment when you were messaging each other but what matters more than how she feels in the moment is how she feels in the hours, days, and weeks after that moment.

That's definitely a more professional way to approach it. Thanks. Just to be clear, she's been texting me frequently even one month after we've hooked up (and she flew back to her home country), it's unlikely that this was just a in-the-moment sort of investment.

When you tell a girl what you have with her is special after the very little you've done together she will feel like that's all she needed to get you, just hang out twice and fuck once.

I can see where you're coming from. But tbh I tell every girl I sleep with that "what we have is special" lol, which I genuinely believe in. The word special doesn't hold as much weight to me, as "I really like you". I will be more conservative in using that word.

SUMMARY:

I think the recurring theme is this: The only reason I've made these actions (reciprocating her PDA, saying "we're special" through text), is to reward her for her level of investment. She's invested a lot in me (purchased gifts, supported me emotionally, sexually, and sometimes logically). My RATIONALE for these actions was to reciprocate on a 1:3 ratio. Is this strategically unsound?

Nevertheless, I think the things holding me back is: (1) Rushing into things too quickly, (2) Scarcity mindset. Both of which are clear and I will work on.

The main thing that's unclear is why should I not reward her level of investment? Even if I plan to make her a FWB, why would I not want to increase her level of investment in me (and make her addicted).

Getting into an exclusive relationship after only having sex once and hanging out twice is moving way too fast

I agree. I know this is a personal/individualized question, but based on your experience, what would you say is a suitable timeframe before even considering a relationship.

Put quite simply: what are the prerequisites (time, # sex, amount of investment in each other) before a relationship is even up for consideration? I'm thinking the bare minimum: ≥3 months, ≥3 sex experiences, screened her ability to support my personal growth physically, emotionally, and logically.

I tend to rush into things. Even now when I think I am clear-headed, I still think this girl matches my physical, emotional (but not logical) needs. Having these prerequistes / milestones clearly in mind would help me adopt a more mindful approach moving forward.

[–]hunterpua 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Part 1

To advance into a serious relationship would require more time (2-3 months of sex and hanging out, screening her ability to augment/enhance my own personal development: physically, emotionally, and logically)

Nah man. What I talked about has nothing to do with her ability to augment or enhance your personal development. Those three things are about three major things that pull you towards each other. In its most simple and easy to understand form, Physical attraction means you want to fuck her. In its most simple form, Emotional attraction means you guys understand each other on an emotional level. And in its most simple form, Logical attraction means the natural progression of your life and her life does not move you apart but keep you together. Its like dating an architect when you're an engineer vs dating a nurse when you're in the military. First example, easy to stay together, second example, hard to stay together.

None of those things have anything to do with her effect on your personal development whatsoever. And like I said in my last comment, she must not complete you, you must be complete before you get her. And this "her" might very likely not be the girl you're currently seeing.

Why would I want that? She's actively investing in me (she's always the first to make the move physically, emotionally, and logistically sending me texts and buying me gifts). It would make sense for me to reward her accordingly to keep her investing in me.

This is the way I see it -- I have three moves: (1) Punish her: push her hand away; (2) Neutral: allow her to make those moves but not reciprocate, (3) Reward her: pull her closer. I have no incentive to punish her unless I want to kick her out of my life. If I want to keep her in orbit, moves (2) and (3) make the most sense. Is this incorrect?

I also don't see why I should friendzone her and you didn't elaborate further. Sex increases her level of investment in me, and it's something I enjoy, of course I would let that happen.

I love that you have a better understanding of attraction than the majority of guys on this sub.

But here's the thing, the advice I gave you is very specific for your situation. You're not the man yet. You're not yet the champion who's name will carry more weight than the championship yet which is why I'm telling you to avoid an exclusive relationship. I'll explain more below.

You can reward her for the emotional investment but do not allow things to get deep. That means make her feel nice for any sort of emotional investment but do not open up and don't go deeper into her life either. She should not know your deepest aspirations, she should not know your deepest fears and you should not know hers as well. Appreciate her when she opens up but go right back to the surface. You need to keep things lighthearted. If you compare your emotional connection to the sea, sure you can go beneath the surface but never go beyond the reef. The general vibe between the two of you should be more playful and less serious. You playfully slap her ass in public, you don't hold her hand.

For your second question, you can reward her giving you a PDA while keeping a boundary. For example, a strict boundary I have is hand holding. Only an exclusive girlfriend can do that. When an FWB tries to do that, I put my hand on top of hers and give her a sexual smile as a reward but then lead her hand up towards the bend of my elbow or my bicep. If an FWB wants to hold me, she can hold my arm not my hand. Hand holding is too romantic. If you want to have an FWB you must not only be clear with your words by having a clear talk with her about the kind of relationship you want but also with the accompanying actions. Also notice I said I'd give her a sexual smile, not a warm smile or looking at her like she's the most beautiful girl in the world. That's because friends with benefits is not about love or romance, its about sex so you must stay congruent with that.

And like I said in my original comment, if she is no longer ok with only being sexual with you then you need to break up before shit hits the fan so you can save the friendship.

Your question about the friendzone:

I specifically told you to friendzone girls that have a full triangle of love (i.e. physical, emotional, and logical), the ones that are relationship material because you will fall in love with those kinds of girls if you don't.

Now falling in love with a girl is completely fine if you are your own man and there are tons of women lined up ready to take her place the second things get bad but you aren't that guy yet which is why I'm actually telling you to keep girls that are relationship material at arm's length. I guarantee if you skip the part where you become the champion that elevates the title, you will have a relationship with a woman that will be amazing in the beginning but years into it, things will break down. It can be as short as two years or as long as 20. Things will break down because you didn't develop the necessary traits to be in a relationship and relationships are 100x harder than just getting sex with some girl. And guess what happens if things break down in 20 years. You're a middle aged man who owes her half of everything you own and have likely forgotten all the game you currently know and will be down to square negative one.

You don't wanna screw yourself like that.

At least if you got a bunch of "relationship material girls" in your friendzone then once you are at a point when you're fully equipped to be in a real relationship, you'll immediately have access to a lot of girls that would make great partners.

[–]hunterpua 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Part 2

Just to be clear, she's been texting me frequently even one month after we've hooked up (and she flew back to her home country), it's unlikely that this was just a in-the-moment sort of investment.

That's fair and awesome but heed the warning, do not over invest. It might feel really good because this may not have happened to you before but every human being has the capacity to take someone for granted.

Lets break down that expression, "take for granted". What does "granted" mean? It means given. What is it to take something as given? It is to assume ownership over it. What does ownership entail? It entails that you have full agency over the thing you own and no longer need to work get it because you already have it.

Think about the difference between a car loan you're in the middle of paying versus one you've already completed. While you're still paying for it, you do your best to take care of the car but when you're done you suddenly feel like you can loosen up and care a little less about how the car does.

You don't want her to feel like she's "fully paid" for you after very little effort because once she's "done" she will immediately take you for granted. You better make her fight for you. You better not make her feel like she's getting a Toyota Corolla, you better make her feel like she's getting a Bentley.

This is why its important that you become the high value guy that women scratch and claw after so that the woman you're with will always feel the need to be on top of her game to make sure she holds on to you so that even when she is your girlfriend she will still not feel like she has all of you.

Even some married women didn't feel like they had their husbands fully. The wives of Muhammad Ali and Bob Marley sure as hell had to fight to get to that level of security.

My RATIONALE for these actions was to reciprocate on a 1:3 ratio. Is this strategically unsound?

I wasn't aware she invested that much. If that is truly the ratio then its strategically sound.

I look at dating much like someone's health. I can tell you what I believe are the best practices but at the end of the day, its your call. So I can warn you about getting into a relationship before you're ready to be in one but at the end of the day, its your call.

Based on everything I learned about her from you, it seems you two have physical and emotional attraction but I'm unsure about the logical. She is currently a country away from you, is that going to be a recurring theme?

what would you say is a suitable timeframe before even considering a relationship.

Just a month actually. That's enough time to consider all the factors I mentioned plus her investment towards the cause of being in a relationship with you. If you can't have sex with her at least 12 times in a month then you clearly have a logical attraction problem because something is keeping you apart, which means she isn't relationship material unless she's willing to make a major change that will ensure you two can physically be in the same place as each other 80-90% of the time.

Put simply, when a woman has all three corners of the triangle of love solidly in place for you and shows interest in a relationship then you have a damn good bet that an exclusive monogamous relationship will work between the two of you.

[–]hunterpua 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]I_DONT_REPLY 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for your time mate, truly appreciated. It's important for me to understand your thought process (reading section by section): We're on the same page in terms of the fundamentals, but differ in the specific details.

Actionable steps for me to take:

(1) Scarcity mindset: even though I approach every woman, I have a firm belief that it is still rare to find someone you click with on multiple dimensions. It's hard to "fake attraction" toward a girl you're on a date with just to get into her pants. The only solution to this is to build and invest in a roster of women that I find attractive (and keep them in perpetual orbit as FWB). This is something I'll work on.

(2) Take it easy, enjoy life, don't rush things, don't get in my own way.

If you can't have sex with her at least 12 times in a month then you clearly have a logical attraction problem because something is keeping you apart

This is an example of where I think we agree on the fundamentals but disagree in terms of the specific details. Perhaps it's because I'm from a widely-populated city, perhaps it's because of my age (early 20s), perhaps it could even be my low sex drive... but sex 12 times a month is logistically improbable when (a) living with parents, (b) cost of renting a hotel (my current method of F-close), (c) LMR related to "getting a room". (d) Work also keeps me busy and most millenials are working 9am-7pm, 5-6 days a week. "Spending the night over" is only possible on Saturdays when there's no work the next day.

That being said, I'm open for these limiting beliefs to be challenged.

Thanks again for your time, I've gotten a lot of value from this discussion and it's really made me realize that no matter how far I go, the fundamentals (developing as a man) is what's #1.

[–]I_DONT_REPLY 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Hey man, I was retracing my steps and I realize it's only been two weeks since this conversation but I've had massive breakthroughs with my scarcity mindset.

here's a short progress report

Been on multiple dates, girls seem to like me, and I always have a girl to hangout with every weekend. This was what I wanted. I no longer feel scarce in my attraction toward females, but I do feel scarce in the females that I genuinely have an emotional and spiritual connection with (more on that later). Hopefully this will change as I build my roster and meet more girls.

Past the initial interaction and dates, the biggest limiting factor is logistics. I live in a population-dense city and most of the people my age 18-25 live with their parents. Sex at my place is not possible (my parents are always home). Sex at her place is sometimes possible (if she has a dorm or her parents aren't home) but this often requires a greater level of investment -- i.e. FWB/Relationships. Love hotels and public sex are also an option and currently my only foreseeable option.

The most obvious solution with the highest anticipated close-rate I can see is: Only go out with girls who are in university and have a dorm.

Another question I have is this since we talked about physical escalation in public.

Let's say you're on a first-date with a tinder girl. How would you open her (a hug)? How far would you go -- assuming no resistance -- before you'd stop?

Some PUAs suggest not making out with the girl unless you're close to sex location. What if you don't have a sex location in mind?

I also think I'm weird in that I need to feel emotionally connected to a girl before I can become aroused (similar to how girls get aroused tbh). There can be a HB10 and I wouldn't makeout with her unless I feel emotionally connected with her. This is a good quality of mine, but also something that is holding me back. I need to counteract this by lowering my expectations and focusing more on the physical (than the emotional).

[–]hunterpua 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

First of all, this...

Been on multiple dates, girls seem to like me, and I always have a girl to hangout with every weekend. This was what I wanted. I no longer feel scarce in my attraction toward females

...is fucking awesome! Congratulations man!

but I do feel scarce in the females that I genuinely have an emotional and spiritual connection with (more on that later). Hopefully this will change as I build my roster and meet more girls.

It will change when that happens but you can optimize the process so that your likelihood of meeting girls you really like goes up and all the girls you'll be involved with will already be girls you really connect to. What do you look for in a girl? What kind of things should a girl be into for you to be really into her? And what kind of things are you into?

Sex at her place is sometimes possible (if she has a dorm or her parents aren't home) but this often requires a greater level of investment -- i.e. FWB/Relationships.

Not necessarily. There are two methods that I've found to be very consistent at getting girls to take you to their place even if its just your first date.

Actually there are 3 but the 3rd one is hard to teach and harder to do so we won't get into that.

The first method is to plan something with her and make it a collaborative effort but make it so that the thing she contributes is her place.

So as part of the date you can get some DVDs and plan a movie night. What you do is tell her you'll pay for the DVDs and snacks but she has to provide the venue.

You can also plan to cook or bake something. Same thing applies, you buy the ingredients and she provides the utensils and the kitchen.

You can either set the date up ahead of time so its a moving date that just "happens" to go through a DVD store or a place where you can pick up ingredients, have a date that is at least close to one of those places, or just go anywhere and plan it for the second date. You can also set it up via text so that your first date will be at her place.

The second method is to make her really horny during the date.

To clarify what I said, I meant you don't make romantic PDAs with women you have a casual relationship so no hand holding or arm on shoulders while you walk down the street, no kissing her cheek or quick pecks on the lips etc. Also I understand that you may do some things that seem a little romantic, like hugs, kisses to the forehead or taking her hand to lead her somewhere as part of your escalation, those are fine before you guys have sex, its after when you hold off on that so as to not send the wrong signals. A casual relationship needs to feel casual.

To clarify what other people say, its one of two things, either so that she won't feel like a slut for going home with the guy she just met and made out with in front of everyone in the club (well what if you aren't in a club and you didn't just meet?) or so as to not give the game away. The second one makes no sense at all because if you can get it to the point where she wants to kiss you then she'll want to know you feel the same otherwise she'll feel like shit for the attraction being so one sided.

So turn her on. When I didn't have a place to take girls I used to go for toilet sex. Go for handicap toilets in hotel lobbies, those are the cleanest and easiest to get into without getting noticed. You'll either just have sex in there or just play with each other a little bit. I don't even care to finish in the handicap toilet, the reason I'd take a girl into one is just to get her so horny so that when I tell her we should go to her place she's just up for it.

Let's say you're on a first-date with a tinder girl. How would you open her (a hug)? How far would you go -- assuming no resistance -- before you'd stop?

No resistance at all?? I'd take her home and fuck her. I'd only stop after I cum.

Wouldn't hug her to open though. I'd do the cheek to cheek while making a kissing sound thing. What's that called anyway?

I also think I'm weird in that I need to feel emotionally connected to a girl before I can become aroused (similar to how girls get aroused tbh)

Exactly. Its about comfort. Everyone, male or female actually needs to be comfortable in order to be horny. You're not weird at all.

How is this holding you back though?

[–]I_DONT_REPLY 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

It will change when that happens but you can optimize the process ...What do you look for in a girl?

Optimize the "process". How would I go about that if we were to break it into stages/steps?

What I look for:

Fuckbuddy: Looks (equal to or above me), Personality (high-energy, fun, makes me feel aroused). Someone I go to when I'm horny. Think: Sex toy or Pet
FWB: Above plus Emotional connection (Cares about my wellbeing, treats me like a king: buys gifts, hang out, talk about life). Someone I can talk to when I'm down. Think: Minion or Companion
GF: All of the above + Spiritual connection (almost like she's my "soulmate"), Logistics (shared journey in life, can see a shared future). Someone that can be a wife. Think: Co-Captain or Assistant

the reason I'd take a girl into one is just to get her so horny so that when I tell her we should go to her place she's just up for it.

I like that mentality. To be honest even for me, I NEVER have a good time with sex unless I'm comfortable on a bed/sofa. I don't think I would enjoy public toilet sex, but I will do it if it secures the deal with the long-term in mind.

Everyone, male or female actually needs to be comfortable in order to be horny.

It's holding me back because a lot of the First Dates on Tinder, I'd hangout with a girl, it's clear to me that she's DTF. But I would still be conversing and bantering... instead of aggressively making physical moves and touching her. I would be advancing the conversation (and becoming hyperlogical) instead of advancing the interaction (and focusing on sensations and feelings).

When the topic goes toward sex or personal life, I basically blank out (it's too damn personal to a "stranger"!). When she reciprocates my touch, I feel myself resistant to it instead of pulling her closer and making out with her. Something seems missing and it seems to be that emotional/comfort connection.

One solution I will work on is to be more (1) touchy-feely from the onset and (2) focus on making her feel good, making myself feel good, and steering away from "logical" conversations or "deep talks".

[–]hunterpua 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Optimize the "process". How would I go about that if we were to break it into stages/steps?

Get specific about your type. Including hobbies, interests, and possble career choices.
Go to the places or put yourself in positions where you're likely to meet girls who are exactly your type.

This is why I asked you the two other questions.

I helped another guy in a very similar situation. He was on Tinder too but not happy about the kind of girls he was meeting. He told me he really liked girls into video games, comics, and other things you would consider nerdy so we decided he should go to gaming conventions because the girls that stream on Twitch are really hot. The plan wasn't to pick those girls up, the plan was to befriend her or other people around a girl like that. Anyone he could manage to befriend, it could be the chubby friend, it could be the guy in the friendzone, or anyone easier to get to and just build up to becoming friends with the hot girl.

What do you think a hot girl's social circle is full of?

Other hot girls that like the same things she likes!

You'll never have to Tinder again.

One solution I will work on is to be more (1) touchy-feely from the onset and (2) focus on making her feel good, making myself feel good, and steering away from "logical" conversations or "deep talks".

Yeah this sounds ok. What I'm really seeing from you is just a lack of experience which is very easy to fix.

One addition I'd suggest is some sort of mindfulness practice, meditation or something similar. That's one of the easiest ways to teach yourself to chill the fuck out and focus on pleasure. Plus its like going from 480p to 4K in terms of how 'clearly' you feel pleasure.

[–]I_DONT_REPLY 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]hunterpua 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]no0_b 7 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

If there are other girls you're seeing, it's best to be honest about it and tell her that you are seeing other girls since you're not exlusive.

It's better to make a decision (just fwb or gf material) before you tell her anything. She might have caught feelings for you.

I've been in this situation where I caught feelings for my fwb. He was giving me subtile hints that he might like me (taking songs I send him personal, take me on dates), but when he asked if this was the case (on whatsapp) I was stupid enough to say 'nah it's just a song'. I was madly in love with this man.

One night when I decided to go on the pill, and told him about it, he said that it would be best if we'd get tested before we do something like that. I asked him if he had slept with other girls while we were 'together', and he said yes. Something in me broke and I felt a heavy pressure on my chest. I guess that was heartbreak. He told me that he didn't know that we were exclusive and I used to blame him.

Now that I look back I see that I was naïve and that it was my own fault.

The best thing you could do is communicate with her. If want to take it to another level, tell her. If you don't, tell her.

I would advice you to do this face to face.

Hope this helps.

[–]I_DONT_REPLY 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This is all excellent advice but it's predicated on me knowing what I want.

Which I don't.

I am unable to make this decision at this juncture due to (1) lack of time spent with her, (2) lack of experience, (3) lack of clear boundaries between FWB and GF/BF:

Question: How long should I wait (I don't want to rush)? What should I screen for? How should I screen? There's no right answer but general guidelines would be helpful.

[–]WIA20XX 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]I_DONT_REPLY 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]WIA20XX 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]I_DONT_REPLY 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

How much time in a given week are you spending with the chick?

We hit it off 2-3 times (in social setting with mutual friends). We went on ONE date (she asked me) and hooked up ONCE on her last night in my country. She left since then and she's been texting me this past month, though the frequency of the texts has fizzled out naturally. Maybe like 2-3 texts a day, basically zero hours IRL (since she's not in my country).

Are you seeing other chicks?

Wasn't before. Recently started tinder-game. Haven't gotten laid yet.

Are you always available?

Hell no. My job keeps me busy. My only off-time is after 8PM and/or weekends.

That level of affection will make her want to be your girlfriend. So if you can't control your own emotions, she will want relationship clarification.

Fair enough. I did say things like "I'll miss you" and "I can't stop thinking about you" after the sex. I did it more so to reciprocate and to keep her investing in me but at no point have I said that we're together or exclusive. I've kept it open-ended and told her there are no expectations on my part ("let's see where this takes us").
If I were to steer this toward a FWB relationship. What should I convey instead? Should I just shorten the "friendship/comfort" (e.g. sharing music, talking about life) and add more "sexual/arousal" (e.g. telling her how I'd spank her etc)? I know there's no right answer but I'm honestly a bit lost lol. Both because (1) I'm inexperienced and (2) I haven't gathered enough intel on her life to make an accurate assessment.
Regardless though, I know I won't rush into things (even if pressured). I'll need to have sex with her at least 3 times in total before I can even consider commitment to anything long-term.

[–]WIA20XX 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

She might have been a bit naive, but you share a lot of the blame here. Own up to it.

As for deescalation, When a woman's mind is made up....

An inexperienced girl will put up with a lot, and lie to you about wanting it to be FWB. But she'll secretly hope that you'll come around for her.

The time to create the FWB vibe was during the approach, not after pillow talk. Not because a chick will naturally accept, but for your own peace of mind.

It is up to you as to how much you want to lead her on.

That being said, a lot of these girls are pretending to be friends with nerds and clueless guys to get stuff out of them. Few girls will admit it, but most guys here have been in some chicks orbit. What you're doing to her is the reverse. Two wrongs don't make a right...

If you want to be a pickup artist, you're going to have to break hearts.

[–]I_DONT_REPLY 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

but you share a lot of the blame here

Wait. There's nobody to blame. We've never put a label on anything and we both have no expectations. She's asked me if this was a ONS or something more, and I told her "let's just enjoy the moment". She agreed and we did enjoy the night. It's a positive experience.

She's also more experienced than me (she's older, and has more sexual partners). There's a lot I can learn from her.

The time to create the FWB vibe was during the approach, not after pillow talk. Not because a chick will naturally accept, but for your own peace of mind.

Lesson learnt I suppose. For me personally, I need that emotional depth (deep talks) before I can open myself up sexually.

What you're doing to her is the reverse.

Yes I may be putting her in orbit, but I'm not pretending to be friends/lover. I genuinely like having her around. She adds a lot of value to my life and makes me a better person. It's just too early for me to say whether we should FWB or Relationship.

I'm fine with breaking hearts. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think what I need to do is first figure out what I want (which is going to take 2-3 more interactions with her), and communicate to her throughout the whole process.

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