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What a pair of wimps Simon Case and Richard Moore are for resigning from the male only Garrick Club - OP: Could not take the criticism from the male hating Guardian.

furchfur

March 21, 2024

38 upvotes

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-13220827/What-pair-wimps-Simon-Case-Richard-Moore-resigning-Garrick-Club-Russians-Chinese-laughing-silly-writes-anonymous-club-member.html

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Title	What a pair of wimps Simon Case and Richard Moore are for resigning from the male only Garrick Club - OP: Could not take the criticism from the male hating Guardian.
Author	furchfur
Upvotes	38
Comments	17
Date	March 21, 2024 12:01 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1bjsnkz/what_a_pair_of_wimps_simon_case_and_richard_moore/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/what-a-pair-of-wimps-simon-case-and-richard-moore.1512878 https://theredarchive.com/post/1512878

Comments

[–]furchfur[S] 12 points13 points14 points 2 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Angryasfk 7 points8 points9 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

And that’s the problem!

In my city there were two high end clubs: The Western Australian Club and The Weld Club. The Western Australia Club opened to women in the 1980’s. But membership declined, they were forced to move premises and ultimately folded in 2019! The Weld Club is still all male and it continues.

Even though The Western Australian Club was open to women (and there is also an all female equivalent, The Karrakatta Club) there were repeated campaigns in the first two decades of this century to force or intimidate The Weld Club to open to women. Our obnoxious Attorney General McGinty threatened legal action and the Equal Opportunity Commissioner, Yvonne Henderson kept threatening investigations and actions against them whenever the push happened (you’d think she’d have realised after the first campaign she didn’t have a case).

Yet not a peep came from them about all the female only clubs. On the contrary we had feminists writing to the editor of the main newspaper insisting that this was “different”. And we can see this happening again in the challenge to that all women bar in Tasmania.

It’s either right or wrong to have gender specific clubs. If it’s ok for women, they should stop complaining about male only clubs. I’m tired of this one way street.

[–]Arealgeneral23 15 points16 points17 points 2 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]Angryasfk 9 points10 points11 points 2 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]Sininenn 4 points5 points6 points 2 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Angryasfk 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Arealgeneral23 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Angryasfk 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Ok. The “Men’s Shed” movement is a non-profit movement for men’s mental health and specifically for combating depression and social isolation, especially for retired men.

The key individual identified in its origins is Maxine Chaseling. She specialised in dealing with issues of the elderly. But she noticed on a personal level the issues that her own father had when he retired. The various social services and activities that were available were geared to women. So she helped to get a workshop going where men could come together and work on various projects. The concept is often that men “communicate shoulder to shoulder not face to face”.

It gives them a sense of purpose; and sense of community; and being able to discuss their problems and concerns with other men.

You can see the website here: https://mensshed.org

They’ve now spread to the UK, Ireland, New Zealand, Denmark, and they’re even starting to open in the USA.

Naturally enough now it’s established, more and more women want to be part of it. The issue is that it was started to deal with identified issues men have with communication and mental health and the dynamic most certainly changes when you bring women in. It works the other way round too. I’ve sat with a group of young women (18 years old) where they forgot I was there. I guarantee you they would not have said some of those things if they’d been fully aware there was a male present.

For me it’s not “a problem” that women would want to work on carpentry or metalwork type projects. It’s more a case that the implication is always that women should be admitted, and that it’s “discrimination” if they’re not. There’s plenty of women only groups, and I guarantee you that the ABC won’t be running puff pieces about how wonderful it is that these women “move with the times” and admit men. In fact they were pretty dismissive about the complaint about Mona excluding men from the “women’s bar”.

[–]Arealgeneral23 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Angryasfk 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s mixed motives.

Some women probably want to learn how to fix things. Some want to make stuff. Others just want to go somewhere different. And no doubt some want to go there because it’s a “men’s space”.

Some women have a bugbear at being excluded from spaces, but are happy to have their own women only space.

Take my own mother, who is not a feminist. My father was a founder member of this golf club at the northern edge of my city. One time, before the main clubhouse was built and it was just a prefab, she was to go for some event on a Saturday night. She drove there, mentioned to the guy at the door who she was, and he said “come on in” but then checked his watch at it was only 5:40 and he said she couldn’t come in and would have to wait 20 minutes. Saturday’s were men only before 6! (Wednesday was “ladies day”). Well she was DEEPLY RESENTFUL! Later she would always complain to me about his golf. And she led me to believe she wasn’t allowed in the clubhouse at all. And years later when I considered taking up golf (because of work) and looked into joining it, she absolutely hit the roof: “What do you want to go THERE for?” and then tried to get my father to tell me not to go (didn’t work out as she wanted).

Now she’s no feminist. And so she doesn’t promote “women’s safe spaces” whilst moaning about men “discriminating”. But clearly not being let in somewhere really stuck in her craw - she wasn’t interested in playing golf. So how much worse would a woman who was feminist and believes women are “oppressed” react to this?

The point is that even things that were especially set up (and by a woman no less) to try and facilitate male:male communication and belonging still get women demanding admission, with the full support of the progressive media.

[+]LillyPeu2 -1 points0 points1 point 2 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

Most of the Men's Sheds that are opening up to women are doing so for financial reasons; they need more members, and many of the services they provide don't require full-time male-only membership. They're always keeping more men-only days, a couple of mixed-gender days (for instance, helping teach women to use the shop tools that women are mostly interested in using), and zero or one women's only days.

Also, lest you forget, the first Men's Sheds were started by a woman, who was working gerontology and taking care of her father, and noticed the acute lack of post-retirement social resources, and men's health specific outreach. So she decided to do something about it. After the first couple men's spaces she started took off, the Men's Shed movement organized and now it is what it is today.

The need for Men's Sheds arose because we don't foster enough community centers. We don't focus on health knowledge outreach and preemptive healthcare and instead focus on emergency care. We have, as societies, let rapacious corporatism define us, and we're sacrificed all of our social services and programs, anything that isn't profitable, to the system that keeps the poor poor, the middle class deceived into a minor sense of comfort, and the upper class keeping the rest of us down.

[–]Angryasfk 3 points4 points5 points 2 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[+]LillyPeu2 -2 points-1 points0 points 2 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I know you're aware of her, because I made you aware of her. You seem to be a single-issue commenter, and your narrative never includes the full picture, even when I've supplied you facts and supported sources.

She was hoping to achieve better retirement socialization and men's health awareness, because of her experience taking care of her father in his old age. There are genuine angels out there, noticing need and actually doing something about it. Both men and women, doing need.

And it doesn’t change the fact that if ever there is a male space, there will be women demanding admission, and claiming discrimination.

Sometimes. Sometimes that's just how you choose to interpret it. And sometimes the full-time gender separation isn't necessary. The supposed claim of gender discrimination in Men's Sheds comes down to the fact that Men's Sheds are tax-exempt charities, and rely on membership funds, as well as social grants in their local states, regions, townships, etc. And when women saw how good Men's Sheds were, some of them tried to create Women's Sheds, and found that there were few financial resources. The women wanting similar spaces, and the Men's Sheds in those areas, wisely concluded that separate-but-equal Men's Shed's and Women's Sheds didn't make sense. The cost of real estate is high, the cost of maintaining and owning property and equipment is high. It turns out that at least 50% of what Men's Sheds provide doesn't need to be men-only, and there are lots of women interested in learning how to do carpentry, etc. So they recognized a need in both communities, and opened up to part-time gender segregated (such as, having men's-only support groups or health outreach where it is felt men are more comfortable talking about issues with men, and without having women around). This makes sense. What's the problem?

[–]Angryasfk 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[+]LillyPeu2 -3 points-2 points-1 points 2 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The real point is that it was established precisely because she saw a need for men’s mental heath and men’s isolation, and for male bonding and sense of community. And yet that’s swept aside.

It's not swept aside. It simply isn't. These Men's Sheds converting to coed by their own volition and choice recognized it's not feasible to remain men-only. In 20–30 years, they figured out where the men-only times and functions and activities were most needed, and also figured out that some of their functions and facilities don't need to be gender-segregated.

They are figuring it out for themselves, and you're making it sound as if hordes of feminists are crashing down their doors, screeching "inclusion!". They're not. That's not what's going on.

I’m sick of the double standards from a group that claim to be only about “equality”.

You're not doing yourself, or men's rights, any favors by misrepresenting what's happening with Men's Sheds then.

[–]Angryasfk 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

One, women are knocking on the doors and saying they want to be let in. These Sheds didn’t change and then go around advertising for women to join.

Two, the point is really that there is this expectation that any “men’s space” should open to women. But it’s just fine and right for women’s only groups and spaces. Even for something that was specifically established to deal with male depression.

We have this case in Tasmania: https://amp.abc.net.au/article/103605236

https://theconversation.com/women-have-been-excluded-from-mens-spaces-for-centuries-and-thats-why-the-mona-ladies-lounge-matters-226308

And the excuse that “women weren’t allowed in public bars until 1965” sounds pretty poor. The defendant was born in 1976 (and in the USA). She was NEVER subjected to this.

It’s quite clear that they think it’s bad if men have gender specific spaces, but fine, indeed laudable, for women to. Even the discrimination commissioner in Tasmania was pretty dismissive about it because it was women excluding men.

It’s not women I have an issue with. It’s the blatant double standard and those doing it having the gall to claim it’s about “equality”.

[–]Angryasfk 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

So what is the “purpose” of a men’s shed? A manual arts workshop?

Maxine Chaseling organised precisely because there was plenty of women focused activities and none for men, and there was a specific need for men.

And yet where are we now? Oh that’s right, according to you this is less than 50% of what it’s for. So let women in. Of course Curves is supposed to be about getting fit - and what does have to do with being women only? Oh wait, it doesn’t apply there does it!

And your comment more men only days. In my state that actually would contravene the Equal Opportunity Act. Not overreaching harassment like Yvonne Henderson threatening to “investigate” the Weld Club. But actually breaking the letter of the law. This part of the act was passed in mid ‘80’s. It allows for single gender clubs. But it does not allow a club to treat members differently on the basis of sex. So a female member having less access to a “Shed” because she’s a woman would clearly be in violation of the law.