I was recently banned from posting in /TwoX. This isn't that bad for me, but I always have enjoyed reading most of the comments by most of the people in TwoX, despite some of the nutbars. I'd really just like to get an honest opinion on how banworthy my actions were. Obviously by posting it here I expect some people will agree with me merely to be against TwoX, but I'd appreciate an honest appraisal of just how worthy of banning I was. If I was a douchebag in my comments, tell me so. Also, if anyone wants to guess the exact comment that got me banned, I'd love to hear your suggestions. Okay, here we go; I apologize for the length:

[–]AlexanderTheCool [+2] -35 points 1 day ago (62|95)

We [men] hardly have a monopoly on superficiality.

[–]doctorcrowbar -7 points 23 hours ago (10|16)

Oh come on, Alex is obviously right about this, unless someone wants to argue men do in fact have a monopoly on superficiality. Better downvote this sexist piece of shit for saying women are superficial too.

Your 'what about the menz' crap is as pathetic and low as much of the sexism you rightly call out; it's a way to marginalize unpopular opinions and to dominate discussions through ad hominem attacks rather than good, reasonable arguments. The discussions in TwoX are often great to read but there's such an unfair muzzling of even slight criticism of women that I can't help but say - Grow the fuck up.

And yeah, I'm a man. Go figure.

[–]BaconBuddy [-5] 12 points 22 hours ago (14|2)

Maybe because it's a women's issues forum, but you can't go into a single comment page without people like you missing the point.

We get enough "What about MEN!?" in our daily lives. Why don't you try understanding before seeking to be understood?

[–]doctorcrowbar -3 points 17 hours ago (2|5)

Missing what point? Understand what? I have my opinions and others have theirs.

The OP said it herself - "I'm not trying to say all men are guilty of this and that the reverse hasn't been done by women". Her point is about how common this problem is for women, not that it's an exclusively female concern. The fact of the matter is that everyone faces discrimination; this isn't an excuse to say that women's problems are constantly equal to men's - and I think in a case like we have at present, it is more of a problem for women - but the idea that by including men's opinions in the discussion of prejudice we are somehow compromising the seriousness of the problem women face is just wrong. Prejudice is not a zero sum game, and its effects are not uniform. In any case, we all need to be in the conversation about sex and gender issues, men and women alike if we want to learn anything.

What do my comments take away from the discussion? There's plenty of comment space for everyone - just because it's a women's issues forum doesn't mean only women can have an opinion.

[–]BaconBuddy [-5] 5 points 16 hours ago (7|2)

But you're not really adding to the discussion. You're derailing it.

If you don't know what that means, look it up, but all I'll say about it is that it's enraging and worthless to your high-minded ideal of discourse where you shout your piece into the void.

[Quoting DoctorCrowbar] Her point is about how common this problem is for women, not that it's an exclusively female concern.

You're only partly right. Her point was more about how common this problem is for women, AND (don't stop reading now!) how even less- or un-attractive men (Dustin Hoffman) don't understand exactly the extent to which this kind of male response dehumanizes and devalues women in any situation. But what's great is that by your response, you're proving that premise EXACTLY correct! With the "What about me :(" on this post, it's obvious that men like this are indeed the problem, and that they refuse to even think on the possibility of their behavior or what influences it.

Let's talk about men for a minute. How about that? Dustin Hoffman wasn't always famous. Talented, sure... but not exactly leading man material. He got by more on underdog charm than attractive leading-man looks. I'm sure that before people knew his face, he also got turned down by a lot of chicks at bars.

TL;DR He definitely knows how bad it feels to be dismissed by women, and he still was shocked and appalled by the way he was sized up for sexual viability and quickly tossed aside when he was in a woman's garb.

So, to read what Mr. Hoffman said and then have to wade through a bunch of dudes clogging up the discussion with "but women do it toooo~" feels like a waste of time.

DUH, women do it too. They discussed that. Let's talk about it on a different post. Or if there's a "gender issues" subreddit, why not take it there? But to do this only encourages division and bitterness. You're not discussing anything. It looks more like kids fighting over a spotlight.

Have you tried doing what Mr. Hoffman did? Did you learn anything from listening to the interview? Did you even read the original post before you mouthed off?

[–]doctorcrowbar 0 points 16 hours ago (2|2)

I never said 'what about me', and I obviously am discussing things. And if my ideal of discourse is 'high-minded' because I want to include everyone, then yours is sub-fucking-terranean.

[–]BaconBuddy [-5] 3 points 16 hours ago (4|1)

Ohhhhhkay. No need to curse.

And you don't want to include everyone. You want to be included. But the thing is, it's a compromise.

[–]doctorcrowbar 0 points 16 hours ago (2|2)

Q: Can't I do both? A: Yes

And then I think this is what might have done it:

[–]hellosayonara 61 points 1 day ago (87|27)

I wish more guys got this.

[–]buckethead-- [+2] -28 points 1 day ago (54|83)

As an unattractive male, I get this from women all the time.

It's not only men that do this, you know.

[–]melanogaster 3 points 20 hours ago (9|4)

Of course, and if you would like to talk about this issue as it pertains to men /r/OneY is that way....

[–]buckethead-- [+2] -5 points 19 hours ago (3|8)

Sorry, didn't realize men were forbidden to talk here.

[–]melanogaster 5 points 19 hours ago (9|2)

It just seems like a strange place to talk about mens issues :/ There just isn't going to be a lot of useful feedback since it is a forum specifically for women's issues.

[–]buckethead-- [+2] -4 points 19 hours ago (4|8)

I was replying to "I wish more guys got that". My point is that a lot of guys get that, because they know the feeling of being ignored in plain sight very well. I wasn't complaining, I was just stating the fact that it happens on both sides. And that it isn't a men's or women's issue.

[–]BaconBuddy [-5] 3 points 21 hours ago (9|6)

You missed the point.

Someone else got it really well in my opinion:

"Because his lack of conventional attractiveness didn't impede his professional or personal success, he was genuinely shocked at how something that had never been a detriment to him as a man can cause major pain for a woman, and maybe even preclude her from certain experiences. I think that was the point he was ultimately trying to make - that he never realized how much looks matter for a woman, because a lack of beauty never stopped him from doing what he wanted to do."

Boo hoo that you're unattractive, but... I would think that it's definitely easier for a man to get by on other forms of charm than a woman, who has to face sexual judgment/social dismissal for appearance reasons from men in places that are unexpected, like work or in classrooms. If you can't land a date, work on your personality.

[–]doctorcrowbar -2 points 17 hours ago (2|4)

You're awfully dismissive of his experience of being marginalized based on appearance. That's not very nice.

Oh right, but he's a guy. "Boo hoo", if he had a decent personality he'd be fine. It's also not nice to say his personality needs work when you don't even know the fella.

[–]BaconBuddy [-5] 2 points 16 hours ago (5|3)

If you can't land a date, work on your personality.

Exactly. Other people are less attractive and still have plenty of redeeming qualities. Maybe his personality is what needs to be bolstered in order to increase his appeal.

Neither of you are even trying to talk about the issue at hand or understand the point, which is that women are constantly judged for their appearance's worth first and foremost- so much so that a man famous despite being un-attractive/short is stunned by the difference.

There are a lot of reasons someone can't get a date... but if I was out with a guy who sounded so bitter about women as some men posting in here, I'd fake Ebola to get out!

[–]doctorcrowbar 0 points 16 hours ago (2|2)

The issue as you define it is what Hoffman said. Anyone who read it understands his point. What is happening in this thread is a discussion spawned from that comment, that doesn't just repeat the point you just made, because we all read it and get it. People disagree over where to go from and what to make of that comment, and that's wonderful because we get to have a conversation about it.

Anyway, I hope my comments were received with the spirit I meant them in - friendly conversation. But let me just ask two more questions of you:

Aside from anecdotes which include being ignored or ridiculed by women, I saw very little bitterness in the comments. What bitterness are you referring to?

How do you fake Ebola? A lot of grasping your stomach and groaning I presume.

[–]BaconBuddy [-5] 1 point 16 hours ago (3|2)

Aside from anecdotes which include being ignored or ridiculed by women, I saw very little bitterness in the comments. What bitterness are you referring to?

Exactly. Come on. You can't just brush those aside! That is completely unfair. What a whole lot of words used to say a whole lot of nothing new.

[–]doctorcrowbar 0 points 16 hours ago (2|2) You still haven't told me how to fake Ebola.