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Lifting weights but seeing no increased attraction? Perhaps you are not 'Golden' enough.

RedSunBlue
March 15, 2013
11 upvotes
/r/TheRedPill
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Post Information
Title Lifting weights but seeing no increased attraction? Perhaps you are not 'Golden' enough.
Author

RedSunBlue
Upvotes 11
Comments 37
Date March 15, 2013 1:57 AM UTC
(13 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/1abpis/lifting_weights_but_seeing_no_increased/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/lifting-weights-but-seeing-no-increased-attraction.235120
https://theredarchive.com/post/235120
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Comments

[–]RedSunBlue 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Key quotes:

[The Golden Ratio] appears all over the human body, from the length of the arms and legs compared to the torso, and it seems to define what proportions look best, that is, most attractive.

The Golden Ratio has been used to construct visions of "the ideal" since ancient times. Artists used it to create sculptures and artwork of the ideal human figure.

This is especially true for the part about being attractive to women. When it comes to being sexually desirable to the opposite sex, it's crucial to understand that certain body dimensions are visually important from an evolutionary perspective.

More than any other body parts, having shoulders that are broad relative to your waist will accomplish this. It's not only physically impressive; it's also a genetic marker of strength and virility.

As you must have surmised by now, the ideal comparison between these is the Golden Ratio, or 1:1.618.

Anecdotally, I can confirm that this is true. After college I pretty much stopped lifting weights and shrank considerably. In 2010, judging from the measurements of the Uniqlo slim fit shirts that I used to wear, I had a shoulder circumference of 100 cm and a waist of 74 cm, which is a ratio of 1.35. No one would say I looked bad, but I was definitely thin and I did not turn any heads with my shirt off even though I had low body fat and a visible 6-pack.

Fast forward to 2013, 2 years after getting heavy into martial arts and weight lifting, and now my shoulder circumference is ~120 while my waist is ~75, giving me a shoulder-waist ratio of 1.6. Fairly golden if my measurements are accurate. I have found that I get many more positive responses from women. Last Halloween I went out in a costume that basically had me shirtless and I literally had drunk women sexually assaulting me. It didn't result in me getting laid because I was in an anti-game hell at the time, but it did give me the proof I needed to keep working out.

This article and past experiences also made me realize how clothing should fit to accentuate the ideal ratio.

TL;DR: If you're lifting weights and strong as fuck but women don't seem to notice you, golden up your shoulder to waist ratio and see what happens.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Thankyou for bringing this into my life! This is getting shared around.

[–]TRP Vanguardtheubercuber 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

I think working on yourself to become more attractive to women is great for Seddit, but what does this bring to the table that is red pill?

[–]RedSunBlue 3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

What's red pill about this:

  • Exploiting the fact that humans are hardwired to seek symmetry and proportionality.

  • The application of a ratio found throughout nature to explain exactly what is attractive about a mesomorphic male's body

  • The creation of a body that has been idealized since antiquity

  • Specific, measurable changes any man can make to raise his SMV

  • The manosphere is very big on lifting weights yet there are men who, despite becoming fairly accomplished in the gym, do not perceive a boon to their tingle inducing ability. This article explains why this may be.

[–]TRP Vanguardtheubercuber -1 points0 points1 point 13 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I agree all those points are valid on their own, but my thought was the red pill comes in after nature, where society starts telling us to ignore our instincts to our own disadvantage.

I think the red pill would come in here if we observed a reaction to this of people saying face structure didn't matter, or had some data correlated to success and ratio of face structure.

Also I tend to think the whole 'golden ratio' correlation tends to be overhyped. It's a simple way of getting irrational bits to fit together smoothly, nothing more.

  • Exploiting the fact that humans are hardwired to seek symmetry and proportionality.

leads to

  • The application of a ratio found throughout nature to explain exactly what is attractive about a mesomorphic male's body

I agree that we can quantify beauty and attraction. But it's more complex than a single nontranscendental number. That number's just so juicy and enticing and hard to resist.

[–]RedSunBlue 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Also I tend to think the whole 'golden ratio' correlation tends to be overhyped. It's a simple way of getting irrational bits to fit together smoothly, nothing more.

Could you explain that a bit further? I don't quite follow your reasoning.

I agree that we can quantify beauty and attraction. But it's more complex than a single nontranscendental number.

If you have any other known parameters for male physical attractiveness please do share them.

That number's just so juicy and enticing and hard to resist.

Why resist it? Artists have been using the golden ratio to depict the ideal man since antiquity. As noted by Tomassi,

...[W]omen’s idealized masculine form that hasn’t changed in millennia...The classic broad chest, wide shoulders, six-pack abs and squared jaws of greco-roman athleticism are still the idealized male form that has graced EVERY romance novel cover in existence.

[–]TRP Vanguardtheubercuber 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

http://www.jstor.org/stable/20715870

[–]RedSunBlue 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Maybe I need to go back to Biology 101, but I think there is a substantial difference between drawings of rectangles and humans.

[–]TRP Vanguardtheubercuber 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

but I think there is a substantial difference between drawings of rectangles and humans.

I agree with you. But the lower parts of our brains responsible for determining attraction aren't that sophisticated. That's why cartoons are optimized by giving characters baby-like characteristics that invoke favorable feelings, such as large heads and eyes.

Also keep in mind how humans are always attaching numbers to weird stuff. Any spiral will get associated with fibonnaci's number, leafs get associated with fractals. We can use math to approximate and estimate what happens, but nature doesn't do math.

An important thing to remember that most people advocationg Phi will not tell you is our bodies do not show the golden ratio, only an approximation of it. Not just our imperfect bodies... The ideal is at best 'close' to phi. For example, the ideal hip to waist ratio is exactly 1:0.7, not 1:0.618.

And unless you want to argue that humans were designed, that's easy to understand. How could such a precise number dictate all of our growth?

The easiest explanation is just that life works in such a way that ratios in bodies between 1.5 and 2 abound. Many of these are around 1.6 and 1.7 because that's what works. Because it works, we find it attractive. There's no magic number tying everything together.

As the joke goes,

The engineer says, "My equations are a model of the universe"

The physicist says, "The universe is a model of my equations"

The mathematician says, "I don't care."

If you have evidence that shows humans are really trying to approach phi in their bodies and their preferences, I would love to see it.

[–]ProtectTheCommunity 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I personally think lifting weights to get women is quite overrayed. I think as long as you have some muscle mass and low BF you should be fine as far as women are concerned. In my personal experience being prefer a more lean build. I think being physically fit and healthy is far more important. My personal goal is to have the physical conditioning of a top tennis player and to have a decent amount of muscle mass (without use of any substances). Obviously different pepple have different goals but the most important piint is thay don't lift just for women. If you do you won't realise the benefits of lifting that apply to different parts of your life.

[–]RedSunBlue 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

I personally think lifting weights to get women is quite overrayed. I think as long as you have some muscle mass and low BF you should be fine as far as women are concerned.

I agree that you shouldn't lift weights only for women, but you should lift weights mainly for the numerous health benefits it imparts. But just as dressing well can change your interactions with others for the better, being in a literal great shape can alter both men and women's perception of you. As I mentioned above, this article is a possible solution for those people who have been lifting weights but feel as if they're not getting the attraction benefits so many of us around here have experienced. Plus, who wouldn't like to literally create the body of Greek God for himself?

In my personal experience being prefer a more lean build.

That's great, but what exactly is a 'more lean build'? Do you mean a shoulder-to-waist ratio that is less than the golden ratio? What is your reasoning for this? Also, I've had a 'more lean build', 5'9" 135lbs <10% bf, and it was not nearly as effective as my current state 20lbs later.

I think being physically fit and healthy is far more important.

No one is arguing with that.

My personal goal is to have the physical conditioning of a top tennis player and to have a decent amount of muscle mass (without use of any substances).

Rafael Natal is jacked, yo

Obviously different pepple have different goals but the most important piint is thay don't lift just for women. If you do you won't realise the benefits of lifting that apply to different parts of your life.

I agree with you on a personal level, but what's wrong with a guy who just wants to slay pussy? Many men come here for exactly that reason. Then they are told to lift weights, but they are not told to what end.

Building yourself into the proportions of the statue of David is a good start in my books.

[–]ProtectTheCommunity 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I was trying to say that very bulky physiques, say for example like Arnold's or Ronnie Coleman's do not interest me one bit and actually don't even look that nice to me.

My goal physique is a bit like Ronaldo's [Who's looking pretty big nowadays actually]. He's got huge legs and I want big legs as it gives you a lot of power and a decent upper body.

That's great, but what exactly is a 'more lean build'? Do you mean a shoulder-to-waist ratio that is less than the golden ratio? What is your reasoning for this? Also, I've had a 'more lean build', 5'9" 135lbs <10% bf, and it was not nearly as effective as my current state 20lbs later.

What I meant by it was a physique like this.

Like I said not too bulky, looks good, looks like you lift in a shirt and is achievable without the use of any substances provided you put in the hours. That guys is about 6'1'', 180lbs. I would say my perfect physique would be probably a little bigger that that. I don't know why but I would just hate to have a physique like this. Yeah I can appreciate that it takes a lot of time, effort and dedication to get there but there's not much benefit of getting a physique like that and I just hate that sort of look. Also being at 135lbs and under 10% BF is lean but you don't have any muscles mass :p. I said a lean muscular physiques interests me the most.

And in regards to tennis players, yeah some do have decent physiques but their fitness levels are out of this world, especially the top players. They can literally run hours on end on court. I want to have peak level of fitness.

[–]ThatsNotScholarship -4 points-3 points-2 points 13 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

lol way simpler

  • gear
  • stay below 12% body fat

now i can be a highly paid fitness coach.

[–]RedSunBlue 7 points8 points9 points 13 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

Instead of dismissing the content, why don't you try to add something to the conversation?

I'm assuming by "gear" you mean steroids. Well, there are a lot of anabolic steroids out there, and since you seem to use them to great effect, why don't you break down your protocol?

Also staying below 12% body fat doesn't help if you're built like Bill Gates.

[–]ThatsNotScholarship 3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago* (10 children) | Copy Link

i start on a TRT dose (200 mg per week) of test year round, no ancillaries needed on that.

coming up into may, i am going to change it up and try to add approx 15 pounds while staying as lean as possible for summer, doing a 14 week cycle.

test e 250mg e7d (base), with dbol added in 5 weeks from start. during the last 5 weeks i will add in tren acetate, and top off the last two weeks with clenbuterol.

  • Week 5: 10mg dbol daily/70mg week.
  • Week 6: 20mg daily/140mg week.
  • Week 7: 30mg daily/210mg week.

  • week 8: 50mg daily/350mg week.

  • Week 9: Tren A 50mg eod

  • Week 10: Tren A 50mg eod

  • Week 12: Tren A 50mg eod.

  • Week 13: Tren A 50mg eod + start with 60 mcg clenbuterol ED, titrate up to 100 mcg ED

  • Week 14: Tren A 50mg eod + 100 mcg clenbuterol ED, tapering down to 60 mcg on the final two days.

then probably a true bulking cycle in october where i can relax a little on diet, but i haven't thought that far ahead yet.

but really it all comes down to diet, you can obsess over work out routines and drugs till you are blue in the face, but diet is what matters.

[–]brosephthebroengine 3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

for the record, 200mg test per week is rather high as a replacement dose, 100-150 is enough for most guys to be in the high-normal range.

[–]RedSunBlue 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

A couple of Qs for you:

1) Why use three different kinds of anabolic steroids in one cycle?

2) How bad is the nut-shrinkage on a cycle like this?

3) How does your mood/sex drive change when on cycle? I've heard stories of dudes regularly beating off in the back of known juicer gyms.

4) What will you do to mitigate the effects of estradiol byproducts?

5) How is this simpler than lifting weights and measuring yourself?

[–][deleted] 13 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]RedSunBlue 4 points5 points6 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No arguments here. Old school bodybuilders actually did look like Greek gods. Not surprisingly, Greek sculptors used the Golden Ratio to proportion their sculptures of those Greek gods.

Cutler, Greene, Coleman, and their ilk look cartoonish by comparison.

[–]brosephthebroengine 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

You paint an awfully black/white picture. Of course chronic high dose use (though 800/month isn't that bad, there are plenty of mass monster who take a gram per week) comes with risks, but the risks for a well-planned cycle with PCT are no worse than binge drinking every now and then. Drinking is probably worse.

Media has overblown the dangers of steroids for years now, plus making hormones and prohormones illegal and putting them in the same category as opiates is just insane.

Everyone, of course, has to evaluate risks/rewards for himself, but increased lean mass is good for your ego, plus that and more bone mass goes a long way for health too. Especially when you are older - lean mass predicts risk of death farther down the line!

[–][deleted] 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The men who have achieved great physiques, did it without gear

lol

[–]ThatsNotScholarship 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

  • i am playing around with some stuff -- this is a reasonably cheap cycle which will keep me hard and lean and should hopefully add quality mass

  • not bad, i could use HCG to counter-act that but i don't really care

  • i'm incredibly depressed like 99% of the time, so, probably no change...if i ran a higher dosage of test, i would probably get a little more 'angry' in the gym, but that could be psychosomatic or placebo...the tren will probably give me some good night-sweats and anxiety though! for some men, tren kills libido, for others, esp. coupled with a high dose of test, it sky-rockets it.

  • no need to worry about estradiol with such a low dose of test, i wouldn't even bother with an AI until i go above 500 mg/week. tren doesn't aromatize, so no worries on that end. however, the tren will probably raise my prolactin levels so i will have cabergoline on hand. for the dbol, i will have arimidex on hand to deal with the bloat, and will probably do 0.25 mg e3d for in weeks 6, 7, and 8, but i may not need it.

  • lol its not really, people should do whatever they want.

[–]RedSunBlue 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

lol way simpler to do steroids

lol it's not really

Do you see how this doesn't help?

Also, as TheRockSays requested, post a picture of yourself if you're comfortable with it. The people need to see what kind of results steroid use produces. Measurements would also be helpful to prove/disprove the Golden Rule for body proportions.

[–]SequencingLife -5 points-4 points-3 points 13 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

Will lifting weights make our face get closer to the golden ratio? No eh? Our bodies through lifting weights will right? Oh they are limited by muscle insertions and bone shape. Damn.

Hello there David Gandy. Lucky motherfucker who won golden ratio all around with good muscle insertions.

How can I shape my face into his and attain a body like that?

[–]RedSunBlue 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Will lifting weights make our face get closer to the golden ratio?

Maybe. Losing fat around your jowls helps.

Our bodies through lifting weights will right?

Yep.

Oh they are limited by muscle insertions and bone shape.

The fuck are you talking about? Do you even know what muscle insertions are? If you're not trolling you're terribly misinformed.

How can I shape my face into his and attain a body like that?

Face, not much you can do there besides keep the fat off. With matters of the body, however, hard work, good nutrition, and a little bit o' juice if you need it can do wonders.

[–]SequencingLife -5 points-4 points-3 points 13 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Maybe. Losing fat around your jowls helps.

You either have craniofacial golden ratio or you don't. It just might be that it is hidden under blubber. Exercise would help uncover it not create it nor change bone tissue.

The fuck are you talking about? Do you even know what muscle insertions are? If you're not trolling you're terribly misinformed.

Difference between grotesque bodies and model bodies.

Face, not much you can do there besides keep the fat off. With matters of the body, however, [1] hard work, good nutrition, and a little bit o' juice if you need it can do wonders.

His face is still ugly. His body did improve, but he already had the genetic potential waiting to be exploited. He also cheated by using roids doing what his body was supposed to, but didn't for having inferior genes. His height surely did help him or else he would be pathetic.

[–]RedSunBlue 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Difference between grotesque bodies and model bodies.

Explain. If this is as you say it is, producing photo evidence with a google search should be a trivial matter.

His body did improve, but he already had the genetic potential waiting to be exploited. He also cheated by using roids doing what his body was supposed to, but didn't for having inferior genes.

How is it "cheating"? He knew what he wanted and he did what he felt he needed to do it. Leave your judgements at the door. We talk about what works and what doesn't.

My final query to you is: Have you even tried?

[–]SequencingLife -4 points-3 points-2 points 13 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Explain. If this is as you say it is, producing photo evidence with a google search should be a trivial matter.

wut?

How is it "cheating"? He knew what he wanted and he did what he felt he needed to do it. Leave your judgements at the door. We talk about what works and what doesn't.

He died young. He tried to mess with the equation of life given to him by genes and ultimately died for not knowing it's boundaries. Dead in a tanning bed.

My final query to you is: Have you even tried?

I have, but my body is a pathetic excuse of a male body. It is the product genetic garbage that should have never been produced. Abortion of myself would have been a good option. My bones are thin, muscle insertions are bad (gaps in muscles. Most notable one chest), and my tendons get injured frequently from normal things. Final blow is that my height is below average and that makes me look pathetic.

[–]RedSunBlue 3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Way to not answer any of the questions.

You likely lack the reasoning and self-awareness necessary to effect any kind of change in your life.

This is not the place for pity trolling or shaming those who work to get what they want out of life. I think you belong here.

[–]SequencingLife -5 points-4 points-3 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

ou likely lack the reasoning and self-awareness necessary to effect any kind of change in your life.

I have existential depression. The least thing I need thing is more awareness. I have enough.

This is not the place for pity trolling or shaming those who work to get what they want out of life. I think you belong [1] here.

Nah I hate those white knighting fags because they just add to my depression. They make me wanna hit them with a pineapple in the head. Besides they hate me for being a "misogynist" lol.

[–]RedSunBlue 4 points5 points6 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I have existential depression. The least thing I need thing is more awareness. I have enough.

Nah I hate those white knighting fags because they just add to my depression.

You just proved my point. Best of luck out there.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

man, you have nothing useful to offer. go hate yourself and dont bother others with your bullshit.

[–]rkg-pua2 points 13 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

Gandy actually has very wide hips, far from ideal.

[–]SequencingLife 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

1.30 ratio. Hmmm. True, but his face is pure gold. With an upper body like that and his face you could bang women without even trying. His height is also a very big bonus. He's still better looking than most of males.

[–]rkg-pua2 points 13 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

He does have great facial aesthetics but I personally do not believe his body is anything to brag about; perfectly achievable by a natty in 1-1.5 years time.

[–]SequencingLife -1 points0 points1 point 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You have a point there. Face makes everything look better lol.

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