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BP, how do you reconcile the belief that society places unfair beauty standards on women with the fact that women only view 20% of men as attractive?

[deleted]

May 8, 2015
3 upvotes
/r/PurplePillDebate
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Title BP, how do you reconcile the belief that society places unfair beauty standards on women with the fact that women only view 20% of men as attractive?
Author

[deleted]
Upvotes 3
Comments 47
Date May 8, 2015 2:15 AM UTC
(11 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/358wud/bp_how_do_you_reconcile_the_belief_that_society/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/bp-how-do-you-reconcile-the-belief-that-society.282283
https://theredarchive.com/post/282283
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Comments

[–][deleted] 3 points3 points3 points 11 years ago | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]taiboworksrational idealism > toxic egoism2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago* (26 children) | Copy Link

that okcupid data is flawed. if you disagree, find any other study that remotely says something similar.

edit: okcupid notified users when someone rated them highly. so rating a user highly was basically like sending an "i'm interested" message which makes that data worthless as a measure of how attractive women think men are. all that data proves is how women don't like/want to initiate. "When you rate someone 4 or 5 stars, we’ll let them know. And we’ll send you an email whenever someone rates you 4 or 5 stars."
http://www.okcupid.com/forum?tid=1234991836895435489
http://www.okcupid.com/forum?tid=15116325653767111747

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (25 children) | Copy Link

Not how this works. You don't get to dismiss things you don't like. Directly answer for the double standard

[–]taiboworksrational idealism > toxic egoism2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago* (24 children) | Copy Link

how this works is you need to find reliable data to back up your claim and all you have is one blog post based on horribly flawed data. okcupid notified users when someone rated them highly. so rating a user highly was basically like sending an "i'm interested" message which makes that data worthless as a measure of how attractive women think men are.

"When you rate someone 4 or 5 stars, we’ll let them know. And we’ll send you an email whenever someone rates you 4 or 5 stars."
http://www.okcupid.com/forum?tid=1234991836895435489
http://www.okcupid.com/forum?tid=15116325653767111747

[–]not_vichyssoiseViolets are Blue?1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

"When you rate someone 4 or 5 stars, we’ll let them know. And we’ll send you an email whenever someone rates you 4 or 5 stars."

Huh... wow. If that's true, then that'll really skew the data a bit.

Even if you take the data at face value, it implies that even though women might tend to rate men lower in physical attractiveness, it's less of a factor when it comes to who they message, while for men physically attractiveness is a more important factor when sending messages. This would appear to support the assertion that women, on average, face more pressure to be good-looking.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No it doesn't. Women judged only 20% of men to be acceptable to even TRY to message them. And women ignore the vast majority of incoming messages and send out VERY few. So your assertions are false and demonstrably so.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

Yeah. So 80% of men are viewed as unacceptable. Glad we're on the same page. Now reconcile the entitlement to be handed above average with the cries of unfair beauty standards supposedly placed on women

[–]taiboworksrational idealism > toxic egoism2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

no, women simply don't like to initiate. show me a real study that says women find most men unattractive or admit your thesis is faulty. all that okc blog post shows is that red pillers suffer from group think and selection bias as they keep paroting that 'study' despite it's huge flaws because it confirms a red pill myth. why else are you ignorant and/or not concerned with the data being flawed?

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

I just did. You do not get to dismiss something just because you don't like it. Also

women simply don't like to initiate

We know that. They simply expect the best to be handed to them. Now stop deflecting. Stop dancing. Stop dodging. Answer for your entitlements and hypocrisy

[–]taiboworksrational idealism > toxic egoism2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

I just did.

you just did what? why are you not addressing the flaws of that data?

You do not get to dismiss something just because you don't like it.

you're the one that is dismissing, not addressing the problems with that data. why don't you stop avoiding and address them. it's irrational for you to expect me to address your theory when it's backed up by a faulty study, it' is rational for me to expect you to address that your theory is backed up by a faulty study. what's difficult for you to understand about that?

They simply expect the best to be handed to them.

you understand relationships have more potential consequences to women because of child birth?

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

Data is not flawed just because you don't like it. So cut the crap. This is the closest we've come to an actual answer right here:

you understand relationships have more potential consequences to women because of child birth?

Ok. Now we are getting somewhere. Because of childbirth, women feel entitled to be handed the best. That still doesn't answer why they feel entitled to not only be handed the best, but complain when anything is expected of them

[–]taiboworksrational idealism > toxic egoism2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

Data is not flawed just because you don't like it. So cut the crap. This is the closest we've come to an actual answer right here

really? the fact that rating someone a 4 or 5 gives them a notification of your interest doesn't make this flawed as genuine rating data? were you even aware of this problem with that data when you read the original blog/study? why isn't it a problem?

"When you rate someone 4 or 5 stars, we’ll let them know. And we’ll send you an email whenever someone rates you 4 or 5 stars." http://www.okcupid.com/forum?tid=1234991836895435489 http://www.okcupid.com/forum?tid=15116325653767111747

Because of childbirth, women feel entitled to be handed the best.

no, they are just less likely to throw themselves in a association/relationship which has more consequences attached than a male who can far more easily walk away.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

the fact that rating someone a 4 or 5 gives them a notification of your interest doesn't make this flawed as genuine rating data?

If anything, it makes the data even stronger. Only 20% of men are deemed even acceptable to try and contact her.

no, they are just less likely to throw themselves in a association/relationship which has more consequences attached than a male who can far more easily walk away

BC, condoms, and abortions exist. Try again

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (32 children) | Copy Link

The 20% is a made up stat, isn't it ? Also , just because some people say that we should have realistic expectations of female beauty (not skinny with huge breasts and butt , perfect face etc. )it doesn't mean that men don't face difficulties too.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago* (30 children) | Copy Link

It's not made up

http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/your-looks-and-online-dating/

80% of men are viewed as unattractive by women. Now that you can't deflect that away, answer for the entitlement.

Downvotes but no answers? Look, I get that women HATE having their entitlements called out, but if you're going to downvote, you damn well better be able to at minimum answer the question that has been given to you

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

This is about online dating, not about all men in general.

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Nice deflection. Try again. Directly answer for the double standard

[–]not_vichyssoiseViolets are Blue?2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Taking the article at face value (for example, discounting whatever differences there are between the online dating environment and how men and women interact in the physical world), I don't really see much that needs to be reconciled.

The article deals mostly in two measurements: how men/women rate the attractiveness of the other gender, and how men/women tend to message the other gender. I don't think it would be unreasonable to assert that for both men and women, if you send a message to someone, that indicates that you're mostly amenable to the possibility of a date with that person (and perhaps a relationship, depending on how the date goes).

Of these two measurements, I would argue that the second is more important. After all, if your objective is to get a date, does it matter that you're not considered that good-looking as long as people as willing to date you?

So while it looks like women tend to rate more men as below-average in physical appearance, they appear to be more willing to actually message men that aren't that good-looking. On the other hand, men appear to be more accurate in rating the attractiveness of women, but when it comes to actually messaging women, they tend to go disproportionately for the most attractive women. This results in more pressure being placed on women to be beautiful, because it appears to be a much larger factor when it comes to being messaged by (and getting dates with) men. For men, women might not rate them as highly in physical attractiveness, but at the same time, physical attractiveness seems to be less of a factor in actually getting messages and dates, so they don't experience nearly as much of that pressure.

So yeah, I don't think the assertions that women face more pressure to be physically good-looking and that women tend to rate men as less physically good-looking are all that incompatible.

(Of course, this doesn't account for any differences in messaging habits between the genders. For example, I would suspect that men are more likely to take the shotgun approach when messaging women. Women also probably don't message as much in general compared to men. How much this would affect the results I don't know)

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't really see much that needs to be reconciled.

This isnt surprising. One standard for men, another for women. Just accept it or you're a misogynist!

You are failing to take into account that women are not messaging at equal rates. Not even close. So there is no pressure to look better since they only accept the very best of men

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

I like how you cherry picked your own source. Notice that women message guys they deem below the averase standard anyway while men dont. Men only go for the most attractive women too. It is also important to note that this is on an online dating site, where looks are your selling point. You are, of course, going to hand wave this away.

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points 11 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Is it really that difficult to answer a direct question? Stop dancing around it. Now.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

I replied to your ok cupid link. If you can't properly debate then leave.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Claiming a source is bullshit and dancing around the asked question is not debating. You are to DIRECTLY answer the OP without any dancing, dodging or deflection

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

I didn't claim the source is bullshit. I said you are cherrypicking. I'm not replying directly to the OP either so I don't have to do shit.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Yes you do. You are to answer the question posed in the OP. If you are not capable of doing so, then say so and then say no more

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

No I don't because I'm replying to your ok cupid comment. If anyone is deflecting or dodging here it's you. If you're going to post loaded questions and just repeat yourself instead of actually debating then I'll go ahead and report you.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

For what? Forcing you to have to think about why you hold a double standard? DIRECTLY answer the OP

[–]haircombsnightmare3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

This is interesting, but the article doesn't mention anything about the sample used for it. Amount, where were they from, age, content of messages... important facts.

On the other hand, if we do believe this is statistically correct, even if they don't find men attractive women still message them. Can't say the same about men.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Not what we're discussing. DIRECTLY answer the OP

[–]chasingstatueszion was part of the matrix4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Except we can't know this double standard actually exists since you don't have solid evidence to prove it. You're asking a loaded question.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

It does and empirical evidence was provided. Stop deflecting and answer. Why is this sime thing so damn hard for blue pill/feminists to do. You were directly asked a question. Now you will directly answer

[–]chasingstatueszion was part of the matrix2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Based on one study about one website that doesn't include vital information about how it was conducted.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

largest dating website out there collecting aggregate data. Stop dancing and deflecting. Directly answer

[–][deleted] 3 points3 points3 points 11 years ago | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 0 points0 points0 points 11 years ago | Copy Link

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[–]PissShiverss0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I'm on mobile so I can't view link but is a okcupid blog really a source you wanna use?

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Answer the question. This apparently is extremely difficult for BPers to do. Yes, I WILL use the largest online dating site for a source of what women find attractive. Now that we have that out of the way, answer the question.

[–]PissShiverss1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't lean BP or RP drama is just funny to me :)

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points1 points 11 years ago | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 3 points3 points3 points 11 years ago | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 1 points1 points1 points 11 years ago | Copy Link

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[–]itsallsympolic-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I'm not blue pill or red pill, just a truth-seeker. Look into evolutionary psychology, it has cleared up alot of confusion for me. It may not be fair or equal but at least you get an understanding of the "whys" of gender behaviors. Also, something I'm unable to put proper terms to, but you know, beauty has alot to do with your thoughts and how you feel about yourself and others, not just your outward appearance.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I get that. I don't fault women at all for finding attractive what they do. My issue is witht the screams and cries of unfair standards they "have to" live up to when empirically they are much harder on men.

[–]itsallsympolic-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Right, they don't have to. Most guys I know are more attracted to t-shirt, jeans, unkempt hair and no makeup kinda girls. Things are different in different places, but anyone screaming about these issues from my state are just not in touch with reality and themselves, period. I wouldn't say that physical beauty standards are much harder on men, it's just that to be attractive to a women, it's more about what you do, have and can provide, which takes alot more effort. Besides, it's all in the eye of the beholder, right, doesn't matter what you think society thinks, just the people around you. And you get to choose the people you have around.

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I wouldn't say that physical beauty standards are much harder on men,

It is empirically shown women are harder on men than vice versa. Stop dancing around it and directly answer for the double standard. Not only have to look good, but do all that other shit you mentioned. How can all of that be true and the feminists/BPers here still maintain standards are tougher on women?

[–]itsallsympolic0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

Na man, I'm agreeing with you, attraction in general is harder on men, just not the "looks" part of it. Going with the general expectations people buy in to, guys are fine with a shaved head, no hair to do, well fitting jeans and t-shirt, shower, deoderant, you're good to go. Stereotypical women looks take alot more time, makeup, hair, so many more clothing options... but yeah, a women doesn't really have much else required of her. So, I'm agreeing with you, there is a double standard and that's fine, men and women are different, get over it. It's just the way it is, get out there and do it, it feels great. Perhaps that's the problem, we don't require much of women and they are unfulfilled in themselves. (maybe your confusion of my standpoint was that I meant the "screaming about these issues" part to be women complaining, not your screaming, I was quoting you)

edit: I didn't read the article you're referring to, just talking about the whole scope of attraction. Looks like you were referencing an online dating thing and that's totally different. A guy that is seen as unattractive based simply on a profile picture would be attractive to the same woman if she saw him in a nice car cuz that means he has money and status, which has little to do with looks.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Ok I get where you're coming from. My issue is the hypocrisy. Women feel entitled to just exist and be given the best

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