Discussion: Human Value

myfriendscantknow · 2014-09-15T12:12:25+00:00

Do you think all human life is sacred and/or valuable?

Yes. It seems as good a place as any to form an ethical groundwork. Perhaps it is empathy that makes me feel that way; I value my life, so it is easy to vicariously care about other human's lives. I feel any being with consciousness and self-awareness's life has value, including other intelligent species on earth.

What do you consider to be universal human rights?

This gets into vague territory, because it can be said that even people in very free and modern civilizations are still put under duress in one way or another, and also suffer in some way or another. So it's more a matter of where one "draws the line". I think the UN's declaration of human rights is pretty on point for the most part, though.

What does a first world society owe its citizens versus what the individual owes to its society?

Interesting question. When I think about the relationship between the state and the people, I often think of an ethical tug of war between the necessary evils of "force" and "neglect", where if you try to end force completely you have anarchy, and if you try to end neglect completely you have totalitarianism. In regards to what the individual owes to its society, I think that it is human nature for individuals to contribute to society whether or not they consider it their duty, but then, I am a humanist and an optimist. And what does society owe the individual? I suppose fairness, justice, reasonable comfort, and that pillar of civilization that is so crucial to our success: education.

Personally I don't think every human life itself is valuable. They all have some degree of potential but those who don't use that potential are a waste. If they are a drain on society without contributing then I don't consider them valuable at all.

I went through quite an "objectivist" phase in my youth where Ayn Rand's compelling writing caused me to be so angry at all the "parasites". I'm over it now lol.

exit_sandman · 2014-09-15T15:36:37+00:00

Do you think all human life is sacred and/or valuable?

Hot iron, do not touch (to normative as a question for my taste).

What do you consider to be universal human rights?

There are none, but if I should come up with those I consider most basic, I would say individual freedom of movement (as in: freedom to leave, not necessarily freedom to enter). I'm with Ephraim Kishon here: everything else follows.

What does a first world society owe its citizens versus what the individual owes to its society?

Equality before the law (as in: no one can do with you as he wants because he's extempt from the law), and protection by the state (as in: no one can do with you as he pleases because he has more power than you and there's no instance between you two). The invidiual on the other hand owes society to obey its laws and supporting in the ways described by the law (taxation, conscription etc.). Basically a glorified Hobbesian social contract.

And, since we're talking about first world, I guess democratic representation (as opposed to "mere" republican participation) should be on the table as well.

sh1v · 2014-09-15T07:29:04+00:00

Do you think all human life is sacred and/or valuable?

More a feeling than a thought. There's no intellectual rationale why humans are important, they just are. It's a kind of aesthetic appreciation, or simple bias. But there's no real reason why life is important or better than lifeless amorphous chaos.

Often, people who talk about life's intrinsic value are simply playing on the in-group bias inherent to primate brains, trying to garner support for some societal policy which benefits themselves.

What do you consider to be universal human rights?

There are none. Rights should always be viewed in the context of the society which gives rise to them, the individual, and the circumstance. Specifically, rights need to be balanced against obligations, and whether or not the individual has fulfilled those obligations.

What does a first world society owe its citizens versus what the individual owes to its society?

Again, depends on the specifics. I'll make a few general observations though, the first being that any time individuals are giving more to their government than they're getting in return, or vice versa, the arrangement is inherently unstable and doomed to collapse.

[deleted] · 2014-09-15T09:17:10+00:00

'Universal human rights' is a cute concept, but they'll never be more that temporary privileges. That's one reason why I support gun rights. People sometimes say all human life is valuable, but we all know it's not on at least some level. To say otherwise requires some form of self-delusion or an appeal to emotion fallacy.

homo_homini_lupus · 2014-09-15T12:53:47+00:00

Do you think all human life is sacred and/or valuable?

No, I can assure you, a human life that threatens me will discover how little value it has in both the real and cosmic sense in very short order.

What do you consider to be universal human rights?

There is no such thing as "universal" human rights, rights are a political concept not a mystical concept

What does a first world society owe its citizens versus what the individual owes to its society?

No one is "owed" anything from any collective they didnt deliberately sign up for with a charter of things it pledges to provide to them and theres no such thing as "society".

That being said, the sovereign "State" "owes" it's citizens (for lack of a better word) a duty to maintain its monopoly on the legal use (military, police)and threat (courts,jail) of force and to not violate any of the restrictions placed on it by its own constituting terms. The citizen owes nothing to the State but following its laws or taking it's punishment when it doesn't. This is of course, a non-collectivist vision of government that doesnt include the government expropriating from some people to give to other people, which is probably more what you're looking for

GridReXX · 2014-09-15T14:13:59+00:00

Do you think all human life is sacred and/or valuable?

I value life. The fact that I would have a difficult time extinguishing (killing) someone else's informs me that I do view every life as sacred.

Some people provide more "tangible" value than others. And other people provide "intangible" value - perhaps these persons or valued for the lessons they teach us, whether directly or indirectly.

What do you consider to be universal human rights?

There is no "universal human right." "Rights" are societal constructs. I'm happy I live in a society (American) where we have constructed some "inalienable rights."

What does a first world society owe its citizens versus what the individual owes to its society?

A society isn't "owed" anything and an individual isn't "owed" anything. The most anyone can do is invest in relationships/society/people and hope their investment is reciprocal. If it isn't... terminate the investment and invest elsewhere.

emize · 2014-09-15T09:57:00+00:00

People always say "all life is sacred."

People say a lot of things though.

If you look at the world around is it's pretty clear all life isn't sacred. The fact is we only care about life when it's convenient for us.

How many lives could we save if we, as a society, gave up just a few small perks? We won't though will we? We place our comfort above others chance to live. Human life isn't special. It may be a cold statement but it does not make it any less true.

adrixshadow · 2014-09-15T10:34:52+00:00

Do you think all human life is sacred and/or valuable?

No. Otherwise we wouldn't have abortions.

What do you consider to be universal human rights?

None, all human rights can be violated through power.

Human rights is good in that it can set goals to help people, but that's about it.

What does a first world society owe its citizens versus what the individual owes to its society?

Society only function keep humans interacting in a civilized manner.

They only owe enough to keep that function.

[deleted] · 2014-09-15T07:43:40+00:00

Well, I have lived on this Earth almost three decades, and what can I say about life? Absolutely nothing good. Its all bad. Life is horrible and I despise it.

But, with that said, we should be good to each other (be excellent to one another?) because we do want to prevent suffering.

Title	Discussion: Human Value
Author	Villaintine
Upvotes	1
Comments	10
Date	September 15, 2014 7:14 AM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/2gfuii/discussion_human_value/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/discussion-human-value.284864 https://theredarchive.com/post/284864

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