Jesus defined masculinity

Red-Curious · 2018-02-22T19:06:17+00:00

Warning: This is a troll post. Take that into account in your review.

This user has been temp-banned for 3 days. Feel free to leave your comments all the same, but do it for the benefit of the community and not to engage in an argument with a troll.

Uncommon_Sense_123 · 2018-02-22T18:11:50+00:00

No. 5 is not found in the closest original text.

https://bible.org/seriespage/lesson-45-caught-act-john-753-811

UshankaDalek · 2018-02-22T18:37:01+00:00

Jesus didn't drive a Ford Focus. He was a Honda guy, but just didn't talk about it.

"I have never spoken of My own accord." John 12:49

Red-Curious · 2018-02-22T19:05:53+00:00

Troll or not, here's my reply ...

I like looking to Christ as a model of masculinity as well, but we must incorporate his time before birth and post-ascent into that model, lest we make the grave mistake of assuming Jesus' identity and model to us is only based on his time on earth.

Before birth, John 1 tells us Jesus was the Word of God. He was the one who put into action what the Father spoke and decided. So, when God spoke into creation, "Let there be light," John 1 tells us that this creation was actually through the Word and by the Word - Jesus was the one who did it. I suspect this also means that when God takes action in the Old Testament, if the Father spoke it, the Son is the one who did it.

In a post-ascent world, Jesus now models masculinity in how he deals with his bride, the Church. So, when Jesus says things like, "Disown me and I'll disown you before my Father [the judge]," that's an example that we know to be true about how Jesus engages with his bride, despite the fact that we don't see him doing this much during his actual time on earth. The same thing goes for how Jesus disciplines, guides, and corrects the church, or how he casts some people out and doesn't even let others get started in the first place. It also models how we should be spiritually reproductive, compared to our physical reproductive drives. The list goes on.

With that in mind ...

He didn't use violence.

On-Earth: He did also say, "I did not come to bring peace, but the sword." Also, he specifically tells them in Luke 22:35-38 that they should NOT follow the model he gave them while he was on earth of "don't take anything with you on your ministry journey; just trust God," but instead, "Let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one." To be clear: Jesus is saying, "Don't just focus on what we did while I was here, but prepare for the times to come also."

Pre-birth: God is constantly ordering wars and acts of violence as a means of modeling God's intolerance for sin and provision for his bride at the expense of those who aren't.

Post-ascent: He does condemn people to hell and eternal conscious torment ... so there's something to be said for that. Of course, he would never do this to his bride, but he's fine with kicking other people in the butt.

RP Praxeology: We don't teach to use violence either. I don't think TRP or MRP do either. I'm not sure why that's at issue. "Get buff" doesn't imply "so you can punch someone in the face."

He expressed his emotions.

On-Earth: Absolutely. But he wasn't controlled by them. When Jesus had compassion on the crowds because they were "like sheep without a shepherd" (Matthew 9:36), he didn't let that compassion change his plan to become their shepherd; he instead deferred that responsibility to other people so he could continue on his mission (v37-38). When talking to the rich young man Jesus "looked at him and loved him," but he didn't compromise his standard of discipleship to make an exception for this man. When "Jesus wept" (John 11:35), it was over Lazarus whom he loved - but he had been warned 3 days earlier that Lazarus was dying and instead of going to heal him, Jesus continued doing his own thing and let Lazarus die because his emotional disposition toward Lazarus did not control his mission.

Pre-birth: God's emotional disposition is communicated through the prophets, and it is most often an emotional state of anger. We don't see a clear emotional disposition from Christ during this time.

Post-ascent: Jesus' emotional disposition toward the world is communicated through the Spirit within us, who not only affirms, uplifts, and encourages, but also convicts and condemns.

RP Praxeology: Go ask anyone on MRP - RP isn't about concealing emotions; it's about controlling them. Go read my post on butt-hurt too.

He didn't marry, he didn't pursue women. He stayed single and even Paul said this is far better..

On-Earth: Well, Jesus said so too: "The one who can accept this [indefinite singleness] should" (Matthew 19:11).

Pre-birth: Through the creation process, he created woman for man and said that this is "very good." So, we can't entirely say that Jesus is opposed to marriage. If anything, his on-earth statement makes it clear that "not many" people can follow in his singleness and that he doesn't expect those to do so who can't.

Post-ascent: Yes, Jesus is married. He is the bridegroom, the church is his bride. I'm not sure how you can argue around this. He didn't marry on earth, but his oneness bond with his church that the Bible directly calls a marriage is fairly clear.

RP Praxeology: Secular and biblical RP agrees: we shouldn't be making marriage a primary goal in life. So, I'm not sure the issue here. RP says marriage is unwise, but that if someone wants to get married anyway, that's a man's decision to make.

He showed affection.

I lump this into the "he expressed his emotions" thing. It's just a technique for how he expressed emotions.

I will simply note that kino and game are all about this.

He showed complete forgiveness to the adulterous woman.

On-Earth: Let's be clear: he didn't forgive her; he simply declined to condemn her, then he compelled her to stop sinning. We don't know if she did or didn't. It's like the parable of the Barren Fig Tree - the tree had no fruit for 3 years, so the master wanted to cut it down; but the caretaker said, "Give me another year; I'll tend the soil and fertilize it, and if after that it still doesn't bear fruit, then go ahead and cut it down." Jesus was giving this woman her extra year after cultivating something in her. The ball was in her court at that point.

Pre-birth: God struck many people down with little to no opportunity for conviction to lead to repentance. If Jesus is the Word who put into action the Father's decrees, then he very well may have been the one doing it.

Post-ascent: All sins and blasphemies are forgiven of someone who actually is Christ's bride, if his bride is repentant. But when someone ceases to repent, 1 Cor. 5 and Hebrews 10 share some harsh words about such people being expelled and being subject to fiery judgment and wrath.

RP Praxeology: This is part of being an oak. Secular RP takes the position that women are just the way we are and we should accept them at that rather than trying to change them. This means forgiving women for doing the stupid things women do, and appreciating the wonderful things that women do. RP has never suggested we shouldn't forgive women who make mistakes. In fact, even in secular RP threads where a guy has been cheated on, only part of the crowd condemns him for staying with her, and the rest embrace the fact that he wants to make it work and advise him on how to operate under that framework.

Some of his closest friends were women.

On-Earth: None of the 12. His deepest relationships were with them. This is fairly undeniable. Although the women were the first to preach of his resurrection, it was the 11 who were given the great commission (Matthew 28:16), and not these women.

Pre-birth: The only person God ever called his friend was Moses. Deborah is the rare exception of a female prophet and virtually everyone else God utilized in a major way was male. When Melchizedek appeared (who I believe was a manifestation of Jesus, although I accept that this is debatable), he spoke with Abraham, a man. When he appeared in the fire with S, M, and A, they were men. When he appeared to Gideon, that was also to a man. We don't have any Christophany experiences with women that I'm aware of.

Post-ascent: Absolutely Christ works with women. Paul models this to the men: "I entreat Euodia and I entreat Syntyche to agree in the Lord [these women were catty]. Yes, I ask you also, true companion, help these women, who have labored side by side with me in the gospel." But we also see the authority structure given by Paul, setting the context for how that "side by side" labor was done: "I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man" (1 Timothy 2:12). Given that Paul says in 1 Corinthians 7 that his authority in writing his letters is as "one who is trustworthy in Christ Jesus," I have to assume that Jesus not only adopts Paul's words, but was the one who through the Spirit inspired them.

RP Praxeology: As most secular RP men will tell you - RP men love women. That's kind of the whole shtick. We want to be around women constantly. In a feminized culture, women flock to other women and men flock to women - it's men who no one cares to be around. Secular RP on reddit doesn't seek to change this; rather, it seeks to embrace it to a man's advantage - how to be around even more women all the time. This is good for a man's confidence, social value, preselection, dread, etc.

Long story short, it sounds like you're trying to do some kind of "gotcha!" post about how RPC is somehow inconsistent because Jesus embraced women and adopted traits that look at first blush to be inconsistent with what you think RPC is proposing about masculinity. This comes from a place of ignorance about RPC and secular RP as well.

Now, with the context behind what you've said, let's add back in all the other attributes about Jesus that we also reference on this sub that you left out ... and now we're starting to get at a complete picture, as opposed to the grossly misleading one you're trying to set forth.

Title	Jesus defined masculinity
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	1
Comments	25
Date	February 22, 2018 4:09 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/RPChristians
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RPChristians/comments/7zfzce/jesus_defined_masculinity/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RPChristians/jesus-defined-masculinity.302022 https://theredarchive.com/post/302022

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