Like most here I recently read the post on RP, morality and you, and like all of us I found it interesting. It was an articulate take on an issue that has divided the community along, as far as I can tell, roughly equal lines for a good while.

However, the author, u/illimitableman, as much as he might have approached it from a balanced perspective, was unashamedly coming at the problem from one side. Why not? We all have our own beliefs; we espouse them unashamedly, as we should do, as men. This is what makes men successful. I fall on the other side, so I’ll engage in the debate, in the spirit I believe this sub was founded, in that of fostering open and direct discussion, without bullshit or ad hominem:

Morality is a construct used by many to appeal to that which lies outside of what we experience on a personal level. For there to be a morality there must be something outside of any individual that dictates what is, or is not, right. Otherwise anyone interested in making a moral claim founders immediately on being faced with some unspecified Hitler. This Hitler says what he is doing is fine. You and all your friends disagree. If all you are left with is to say that my friends’ and my opinions are worth more than yours, you aren’t, in reality, left with anything at all. There is no objective reason why you are right and he isn’t.

You can appeal to the common apprehension. ‘We all know what morality is, what it means, what is and isn’t good and right, right?’ But that’s not true either; no two people will ever agree as to what is right, in the totality of the word, no two people ever have, and they never will. No two groups or religions, ideologies or dogmas, communities or strata, and least of all individuals (RP is as good an example of this as any). Those you agree and associate with tend to be those with the most overlap, but that’s about as far as you can go.

There is no real consensus as to what moral is, and I don’t think any of us are appealing to a higher power when we deconstruct the values of sexual strategy.

So, what do we say about one man taking another’s LTR to the sheets? It’s immoral. Because what, because we all know that it is? Because the universe told you that it is?

I will never willingly scam a decent person out of money, and I will treat any man involved in my business as a brother, or else not involve him. But if a guy came to me and made a bet that I couldn’t touch my own nose, I’d take the bet, for any amount of money he’d care to mention (barring of course learning difficulties.) He would presumably feel pain at losing the money, maybe he would learn from the experience, maybe he wouldn’t, but I don’t think I would care too much. Morality is not an excuse for stupidity, and you are not morally obligated to oblige another man’s recklessness.

We all acknowledge that our lives are our own responsibility. Lift, motherfucker, or go back to your masturbatorium. Develop a sense of humor or be laughed at. Don’t, with any exceptions, come crying to me about how your sweetness and perseverance haven’t yet resulted in a harem. I apply these rules to myself because I know that they are a reality, not moral, not immoral but amoral. They exist, in a definitively real way, not in the way of morality but in the ways of neural pathways and millennia of genetic formation, in the ways of concrete life, like a stone. How then can I apply them to myself, and not to those around me?

We live in a society with ample evidence of what constitutes modern femininity, of hypergamy and branch-swinging, of AF-BB, of the whole tome of RP theory; it is literally everywhere around us and some guy didn’t bother to pluck it from the air next to his head?

If I’m more alpha than the next guy and I fuck his girlfriend, that isn’t morality, that’s reality. That’s what we mean when we say ‘amoral’. If some guy is buying shit for a girl he isn’t spreading and another leaves bi-weekly genetics on her face, that’s reality, amoral. If that was done to me I would accept it as a manifestation of the way the world is and understand it as an impetus for change, and in fact I have already, I hope we all have already, done that and continue to do that. Any other guy that isn’t willing to do the same is directly involved in his own weakness and failure, by the terms of the world as it exists outside of our constructions, and he has no right, just as I have no right, to complain. He might get angry, but it isn’t a morally mandated anger. You, as a man, as any man, have an obligation, not moral but real, to keep your life and your women in place, on the terms of who and what humanity really is, or shit will start to slide. If it does start to slide, that is either a reflection of your own failure or of the immutably uncontrollable nature of the outside world. Either way, your girl wanted to fuck some other dude more than she did you, and you would be a fool to blame the dude.  

It is, in the Nietzschean tradition, a hatred of weakness, but only because reality hates the weak, and most of all weak men. Not because that is good or right, but because it is. You can have principles, but if they do not coincide with reality they are fantasies, and you are living in a glass house. There will be people like you, who will like you for having those principles, but they, like you, will be indulging in the fantasy. You are not a patriarch of other men, here to safeguard their wellbeing, you have a short life which you have been designated to pursue by every particle of your existence; collaborate, fraternize, partner and share what is mutual, take what isn’t.