Wary of selection bias in this community and delusions of self-worth

Isaiah4verse1 · 2015-07-25T20:16:57+00:00

Yes, we've had the "I met what I perceive to be a unicorn so you can too".

Men in LTRs tend to adopt female reasoning, rationalization and especially their lack of empathy.

vandaalen · 2015-07-25T19:56:56+00:00

What's the purpose and intention of your post?

So you have been lucky and born into wealth and not into a broken home. You do not know any of the struggles many here had to face. Good for you.

That isn't reality for the vast majority of people though and it surely isn't the reality for the majority of men here.

You got some nerves to post such statements as that people are broken to a community which mainly consists of men who have been broken. A resonable amout of guys here have been fighting with things which you have only heard about and some - like me - have even been on the verge of freeing themselves from the burden of living.

Also just some of the lives here do not resemble what you consider to be enviable does not mean that they are anything else but just different to your lifestyle.

I personally would never want to switch places with you and work in a VC firm. I value very different things over money or self-percieved power. I will never be part of that treadmill. I've got my own business and I have just been asked to help built another one with my most important contractor.

I also do not envy you for not having my experience. I have experienced my own disposability to society first-hand. I have been to places and met people you probably wouldn't even touch with a flagpole and I've learned my lesson about how fucked up life can be, as well as I've lost the fear to loose anything I possess, since I know I will survive and I know I will just rebuild myself and my life. Can you say the same from you?

I have also developed a very strong morality and code of honor, all from experience and not from reading books, watching movies and choosing some idols to follow. In the end the only thing of true value a man possesses is his word.

I also do not feel lonely. I just accepted the fact that in the end I am lonely and that the most important person to trust is myself, which also leaves me without any more strawmen to blame if I fuck up, than just me.

Happiness and freedom are just concepts and they only exist in your head. You can be perfectly fine without any of the things you mentioned.

DuncanMonroe · 2015-07-26T00:12:58+00:00

You're only in your twenties and you haven't married your alleged virgin girlfriend yet.

Please, got ahead and marry her. She sounds like a catch. Don't worry, there is zero chance that she will turn Eat Pray Love on you in 7-10 years. She will definitely not wonder if she missed out by not at least fucking one or two other guys. It will definitely not eat away at her, even as she gets closer and closer to her mid-thirties and becomes hornier and hornier, while your sex drive naturally declines.

See what I'm getting at? You simply haven't lived enough to be an authority on this subject.

Also, plenty of guys on here are successful in way or another. And these are guys that suffered disastrous setbacks first before clawing their way back up, not some silly bullshit like working a less than stellar job with an ivy league degree during the Great Recession.

Valhalla_Man · 2015-07-25T21:14:55+00:00

I suspect many current Red Piller's felt just like you a while back in their lives.

You may be lucky though too, and not ever undergo a crisis with your SO.

Grimmov · 2015-07-25T19:52:07+00:00

OP, it's simple. You're living in a very tiny bubble. Your experiences are not representative of the reality that 99% of others face on a daily basis. Your life is the exception to the rule... so far. Count yourself as lucky and don't take it for granted.

Occams_Shiv · 2015-07-25T19:36:17+00:00

Do you come from old money? Is your father a strong, confidant leader? There are good salt of the earth communities in America, and it's possible you are from one.

But human nature is human nature. All of the experiences you describe can be real, and not contradict anything here.

My advice? Decide if you want kids. If you do, pre-nup and marry your virgin girlfriend. You won't find another. It used to be expected that the woman you married would be a virgin. Today it is like finding a factory-mint Deusenberg in a barn. It won't happen twice.

My personal take is that there are no unicorns, but there are world class thoroughbreds. And then there is dog food.

Also, read the rules and reformat your post so it doesn't get deleted by the mods.

cariboo_j · 2015-07-26T18:32:10+00:00

I have a girlfriend who's smart, pretty, reasonable, and picky with whom she associates. She was a virgin when I met her. She fell in love with me before I became 'successful' and stayed with me throughout the ups and downs in my career. I am honest with her about my fears, concerns and ambitions - apparently this is 'breaking frame' and she'll leave me in the future(?).

Lucky you. Sounds like you've never been on the losing side of female hypergamy and branch swinging. Ask u/vengefully_yours or u/All_fixed_again about marrying a "good girl". I've been following a guy on YouTube, CS MGTOW. He's educated and successful. His wife was a "good girl" that came from a poorer family. He paid for her masters degree and hooked her up with a job. She ended up cheating on him and divorcing him, even after they had a kid together.

The statistics are pretty damning. 50% of marriages end in divorce, and 60-80% are initiated by women depending on the country. There are two factors that consistently lead to a spike in divorces:

Urbanization and Mechanization - when a country transitions from rural to urban and jobs become less physically strenuous, we see an increase in divorces. Why? Wives are no longer dependent on their husbands for resources.
Economic Recessions - when a husband loses his job, his wife is more likely to divorce him.

There are evo-psych reasons for this. Women are hardwired to seek provision and protection from men. To view them as utilities and resource dispensers. I personally had a rude awakening. When I was in school for engineering, a girl with whom I was in multi-year LTR and professed to love me began to complain I wasn't successful enough yet, cheated on me and moved to another country to pursue her own career. When the one person you thought was on your team and you were going to take on the world together with does a 180 and essentially stabs you in the back and demonstrates she was only in it for herself the whole time, it's a rude reality check. You need to reevaluate your world view. Seek answers. Evo-psych and the red pill provides those answers.

I agree with you that TRP's advice on holding frame is often cartoonish and exaggerated. It's oversimplified by the 19 year old bro posters on this forum. Also picking up chicks at bars and "spinning plates" is definitely a selection bias.

But hey, maybe you found a unicorn. It sounds like the puzzle pieces of your life have fallen into place quite nicely. Maybe she's a unicorn, or maybe she isn't but you'll be lucky that circumstances will not bring out her hypergamous and branch swinging behavior. Or maybe you two will get married and she'll burn you a few years down the line. Only time will tell.

But really, given the stats on divorce and evo-psych reasons behind it, there are millions of men who will not have the same positive experiences you've had so far. TRP exists to help men cope when shit hits the fan... and for tens... no hundreds of millions of men it will hit the fan sooner or later.

thraxaway · 2015-07-25T19:25:45+00:00

I thought everything was fine in my marriage. We were together for 8 years. She stuck with me through the bad and the good times. We were the envy of every other couple around us.

That didn't stop her from fucking some random guy and throwing away everything. She didn't consider what her actions would do to me or our daughter.

My story is not unique. What you think you have isn't what your SO thinks. Women are driven by feelings and will gladly drop their panties for the first guy who makes her tingle. She'll rationalize her behavior and completely disregard the consequences.

Never get married.

Algernoq · 2015-07-25T19:39:20+00:00

Summary: I agree. What actionable advice do you have?

Yup. I get the sense most of the people here are under 25 and are chasing the "bro" life instead of the "businessman" life. I also think that there's a certain bitterness that brings people to TRP. For me, that bitterness consists of a few terrible experiences / realizations:

All (5) of my ex-girlfriends lied to me to minimize their sexual history, and my more-promiscuous acquaintances married better and had better relationship experiences than my less-promiscuous "good" friends and acquaintances. I thought there was some value in being an honorable, honest, low-n-count man. Now I see that being honorable means being naive enough to get lied to.
I was raised to be a good provider without the social skills to avoid being taken advantage of. Specifically, the career I was led to follow (engineering) leaves me as a socially weak provider-servant whose value gets extracted by a socially-competent business owner and likely a socially-competent wife.
All of my divorced male relatives were dumped by their wives when their SMV dropped below the wives' SMV, while all of my non-divorced male relatives stayed with their wives even though these wives ballooned up into frigid post-menopausal whales while the husbands remained rich and good-looking.

TRP helped me make the mental shift to accept red pill career advice, for example from Wall Street Playboys, because White Knighting against law-abiding Dark Triad types is a hopeless cause. I'd really really like to see society have better systems for encouraging positive-sum behavior, specifically more science research and public works projects, but I can't think of any systems to build to make this happen and as it is working for the common good means being poor.

I'll set the "very enviable life" threshold at 2 of 3 of:

part of a close-knit community of 20 to 100 people
in top-tier health, 6-pack abs or equivalent
1%-er wealth ($500k a year income or $5 million in the bank)

Honestly, I've got none of the above. I want to get there within ~2 years. I'm 29, just moved to the Valley, and plan to work a sales job during the day, do mechanical engineering to make a startup I own the majority of happen during the evenings, build a community with weekend activities, and lose the weight with coffee and fasting and exercise. It's a hard road, and painful to accept that Nietzsche (will-to-power) appears to be right while Socrates (benevolent order) and Jesus (loving God) appear to be wrong, but I can't think of a better way to go forward from here.

If you'll answer, I've got two questions:

How did you get your VC job? I'm guessing your path was a top-tier undergrad university, followed by an analyst job at a VC firm, followed by promotions into your current job.

What do you recommend TRP do differently, as far as what advice is recommended?

true_detective_sf · 2015-07-25T20:58:19+00:00

I'm running my 3rd business and worth over $100 million. My parents are married. This sub helped me in many ways, and I fully agree with the ethos.

Are you a general partner at the firm? Because if you are not, then that job isn't impressive enough to brag about.

commentatorX · 2015-07-26T01:09:52+00:00

The 'good and decent men and women' you've been around all your life probably don't brag about affairs and deadbedrooms etc, what makes you so sure none of them 'fuck about'? Also a huge amount of men and women go to bars with the sole intention of hooking up, so evidently your friends don't know shit.

Your 'smart, pretty, reasonable, and (socially)picky' girlfriend sounds great, but sooner or later, in any relationship, wether it's over six years, or over three decades, some shit's going to diminish. For most marriages and LTRs (across the board and all throughout history) the first thing that flounders is the sex-life. Human beings tire of the ordinary, and crave novelty - there are lots of studies I CBF to link but it's just how we're wired. You don't think she'll ever want to 'explore herself sexually'?

It's great that she's so supportive and open with you too, but again: familiarity breeds contempt. It's not a question of 'breaking frame', just understand /acknowledge /admit that she'll see you differently for all that you have shared. She see's all your strings essentially. Really, letting anyone know your fears and concerns is ultimatley unnecessary and counter productive, if you've got real problems work on yourself, if that's really not enough medical / psychological options are available.

I can't comment on your concern for the community because you are trying to identify and judge a mob of thousands. A free society is a market place of ideas; TRP reflects such a statement.

P.S. I had a happy unbroken childhood, my parents are still together, and I'm an intentionally single non-virgin with no divorces to my name - so you're talking out of your ass. This is a bitch-post.

Angry_Landwhale · 2015-07-25T20:17:47+00:00

So your feelings are hurt because we're too mean to women? Fuckin weird man, I wonder what you're all about.

Why don't you get a thicker skin or fuck off somewhere else.

Also, read the sidebar

EDIT: A woman wrote this.

joleyline · 2015-07-25T20:14:41+00:00

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Gettingaware · 2015-07-25T20:19:12+00:00

Youre just living the american dream and so you dont need to wake up. You were born to a healthy tribe of individuals, who are part of a higher class than 95% of the worlds population. Youre really good looking and socially well adapted and therefore you and yours have received a positive cycle of feedback greater than most people and as such its easier to reach excellence in society because society caters to your kind and so you have less stress in your life.

You really should pay attention to things that fit your world view in order to excel in the way you see fit and become the man you need to be. However you should also be able to appreciate and not diminish what other guys are saying because one day your world might come crashing down and then youll be where some men stay their whole lives.

joleyline · 2015-07-25T22:18:31+00:00

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Algernoq · 2015-07-26T06:28:51+00:00

This might go over better with a couple of additions:

First, some stories, etc. to show that you actually are Red Pill...I would have said that my college girlfriend was a virgin when I met her, because that's what she told me (at first) and I didn't know well enough to spot the warning signs that were there. It's probable you have the game to not get lied to, but not clear from what you posted here.

Second, some concrete proposals for how people can get to an "enviable life". I'd recommend going Monk Mode down "the path" of (Overachieve at Local School) -> (Elite University, Technical Major, Top Grades) -> (Consulting, Sales, or Finance job) -> (Manager in Elite Job) -> (Controlling Ownership of Tech Startup) -> (Bigger Tech Startup) with 3 evenings a week of TRP bro mixed in, until reaching age 35, then having children with a unicorn and focusing on family and relationships instead of career for the next 20 years. Not sure if this is what you'd recommend though.

MentORPHEUS · 2015-07-26T17:19:03+00:00

Humblebrag + concern troll = not a great post, man.

From your comments you've got the brains and knowledge to be a better contributor than the post would suggest, so read a bit more sidebar and stick around a while longer.

ThePedanticF0x · 2015-07-27T05:39:22+00:00

Feigning knowledge and credibility through ostentation and pedantry, a method of subversion as clever as it is self pleasing, I should know. Solidarity of Common sense and logic is not as entertaining as charisma and double speak, unfortunately the latter only serves to preserve self image through dissonance. To the inexperienced and the disingenuous, verbal ostentation maintains reputation through obscurity of logic. Your attempts thus far are simultaneously commendably entertaining in that it lacks objective logical basis in a sub based in amoral broad spectrum logic.

You assert a concept as non existent in its entirety based on the non existence of your specific personal experience on the concept? Look up the phrase "delusional solopsism" a common delusion of self agency among modern college educated youths, it is common among the newly taught to think they understand everything. You prove only your own inexperience by accepting human nature only to deny it when it does not serve your idealism. You base your denial of matters on your lack of experience of said matters, and due to your acknowledgment of these matters being dependent only on actual personal experience your justification is personally unfalsifiable because of personal inexperience in itself.

Your only salvation is actual experience, quite the intellectual conundrum. I wish you good luck.

jimjackjoe · 2015-07-25T23:54:21+00:00

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joleyline · 2015-07-25T20:23:19+00:00

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modkillafirefux · 2015-07-25T23:44:51+00:00

All my life I've been surrounded by good and decent men and women. My parents have been faithful and still love each other after three decades - the same goes for the majority of my aunts and uncles so far as I can tell. My cousin is happily married and my best friend has been in a LTR for 6+ years. People in my life simply don't fuck around. The men and women closest to me are educated, hard working, intelligent, and never in their lives frequented bars in order to pick up a date.

And you're lucky. I've gone on dates for years where my only standards are "Be 5/10 or higher, dont be fat, dont fuck me on the first date." Yet i only average about 3 women a year who meet those dirt low requirements. Your glory situation may have seriously impacted your own view of others. I'm not bitter about it, I've simply adapted and filtered women by country of origin. The game is that bad in many parts of the US so i can really understand the MGTOWs choosing to stop playing.

For info my parents never divorced and do love me very much. I had a good childhood and they paid plenty of attention to my siblings and me. I dont go for bar sluts either, daygame is best game.

I have a girlfriend who's smart, pretty, reasonable, and picky with whom she associates. She was a virgin when I met her. She fell in love with me before I became 'successful' and stayed with me throughout the ups and downs in my career. I am honest with her about my fears, concerns and ambitions - apparently this is 'breaking frame' and she'll leave me in the future(?).

It wont make her leave but it does offset her a bit. If you're objective and see how she reacts to this then you'll notice its clearly not positive. She may be encouraging but its not the same as when she encourages a friend or family member, its a bit more sour. Its an exaggerated premise but usually breaking frame means a repeated loss of control over her or yourself. Not just a few off inatances.

I worry there is selection bias at play in this community. Most people here are either children of divorce, divorced themselves, or (pardon the term) kiss-less virgins. It's only one side of the story of life.

Astute observation except by simply looking at the average plebbit user you can already deduce this. You've also had your own bias come from your experience though. Women like your gf and friends like yours are literally a diamond in the rough. Just go to other parts of the US and try to find people that arent braindead morons if you really want to have a depression kick in. Thankfully i was a natural introvert so i never minded a small group of friends. But even then I'm frustrated by their lack of masculinity.

This community is full of people who are thoughtful, introspective, and sensitive. But people here also seem emotionally broken and lonely.

To be fair there's not really a silver lining to the rainbow that is daily life. Especially as things get worse and worse. Simply finding a virgin post college is nearly impossible, let alone a person with good qualities. The choice for many is either no standards or hold on to your standards and wait several months or years until a good girl comes along. Furthermore, when everything is rape and you stand to lose everything in divorce or simply a false accusation people are more likely to be lonely as that fear hangs like an axe over your head. One wrong move can be fatal.

I know some of you think of yourselves as 'lonely at the top', but are any of you really at the top?

Id say very few of us are. With regards to getting women I'm pretty high up there and its shit enough already. I can only imagine how much lower that 3 rejections a year would drop to if i actually worked out and got ripped. Still, I've got my virgin until me girlfriend who cooks, cleans and loves me, as well as a close knit group of friends i get along with very well. I wouldn't trade it for anything else right now.

I'm the youngest partner at a top 20 VC firm, and I don't feel that lonely.

You got a good girl, good friends and a good job. No shit you feel awesome.

Maybe a few of you are secretly Fortune 500 C-suite'ers with tens of thousands of livelihoods resting upon your shoulders, but I doubt it.

I'm not but i dont need that to be happy or to pull women. I prefer a less stressed life with an emphasis on actually enjoying myself. Time is our most valuable commodity after all.

Some aspects of redpill are indeed true, but none of you (even the fully converted) seem to be living very enviable lives.

Thats very subjective though. You could be a millionaire but if you work 60 hours a week i wouldn't envy you in the slightest. Thats something you've failed to grasp, happiness isnt "hitting the top", if you use the red pill as a means of acquiring as much joy in life as possible I'd argue this is a very enviable position to be in.

jimjackjoe · 2015-07-25T21:33:32+00:00

You sound like you're fixin' to get burned by that virgin GF.

"Booo hooo hooo! I didn't mean to...it just happened. All I've known is you...I've never had a fling before. I missed out on all the experiences my friends got to have, and I needed to explore myself. Boo with a giant hoo after it!"

2015-07-26T04:23:35+00:00

I like how people went and systematically downvoted almost all of OP's posts as if that's somehow going to disprove anything he said. Silly bitches.

RedSugarPill · 2015-07-25T21:37:31+00:00

Congratulations on your fantastic life. However, this should be in askTRP. Expect deletion in 3..2..1..

Title	Wary of selection bias in this community and delusions of self-worth
Author	joleyline
Upvotes	0
Comments	102
Date	July 25, 2015 6:55 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/3el1tk/wary_of_selection_bias_in_this_community_and/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/wary-of-selection-bias-in-this-community-and.34986 https://theredarchive.com/post/34986

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