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[–]redpilldude 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
I partially agree with this article. I agree that society should allow men to express their emotions more freely, but I don't like that this issue is being framed as "toxic masculinity." This has nothing to do with toxic masculinity. This has to do with a toxic society and out-dated gender roles.
Also, I'm worried that this woman will only consider this topic from a Feminist viewpoint, and this discussion is going to be cataloged according to Feminist ideas, which will create more problems than solutions. I think it would be more appropriate for the Men's Rights Movement to deal with this issue.
[–]Postflop 3 points3 points3 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
That was the only thing I didn't like about it, was the use of the word "toxic masculinity".
[–]redpilldude 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Well, we should remember that Feminists consider almost everything associated with masculinity to be "toxic." So, I highly doubt that Feminists will actually do anything to improve men's quality of life. Ideally, Feminists would like men to behave like the men of SRSMen behave, which is docile and passive.
[–]Senior Contributorveggie_girl 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I highly doubt that Feminists will actually do anything to improve men's quality of life.
Feminists already rely on men just to make feminism possible. (Without men feminism -hell- civilization itself would not be possible). Women can't get anything innovative done without men. Relying on them to improve things for men is going to lead to a long dark downward spiral.
[–]Postflop 1 points1 points1 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Right.. because docile and passive doesn't spark attraction. So where's the middle ground.. and will there ever be one?
[–]Endorsed ContributorrebuildingMyself 6 points7 points8 points 12 years ago* [recovered] [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
Docile and passive gets the bills paid.
Docile and passive doesn't mind a dead bedroom because her feelings are more important than his. He also forgives infidelity when she "slips up."
Docile and passive doesn't mind it when paternity testing gets banned, either. This helps keep docile and passive working hard to raise a child that's not his.
Docile and passive doesn't bitch too loudly after the divorce ruling makes him give up half his assets and pay child support to a child that's not even his.
[–]TRP Vanguardss_camaro 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
'Toxic' by Britney SpearsTM
[–]redpilldude 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
will there ever be one?
Probably not
[–]Postflop2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Yeah I think that's where the problem is. It's an ongoing tug of war with no real goal or destination, and it's exactly the reason why I won't discuss gender equality/feminism or anything of that nature with anyone, especially women.
[–]md619 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago* (7 children) | Copy Link
It seems like the message to be "masculine" has lost part of it's necessity. Back in the early days of our species, life was tough and so men had to be tough. There were women to take care of, wars constantly being fought, food to hunt, etc. So men had to man up or face the consequences. The patriarchy was never a system built to benefit of men, it was always meant to benefit the next generation. Men died and took care of women so that children could live.
Then things changed. We got really good at surviving as a species and suddenly the need for some of these old gender stereotypes seemed out of place. It seems like life isn't tough anymore in the first-world, so people start to question if we really need "toughness". Is there really a need for men to have to man up and still act the way they did years ago?
The problem becomes that even though we may have outgrown these problems as a species, our instincts don't realize it, probably because it happened so fast. So women still desire men who show these kinds of masculine traits, even if they're not as inherently necessary still in today's society. But because some of these masculine stereotypes are no longer advantageous and some actually are a negative, some men want nothing to do with them. That hurts their relationships with women who still want those kind of masculine men. Combine that with the brainwashing from feminism that women really DON'T want those kind of men and as a result we have a large part of a generation of men who are hopeless when it comes to women.
[–]dropit_sphere 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
The problem becomes that even though we may have outgrown these problems as a species...
I predict that we haven't. Technologically, we've progressed fantastically in the last hundred years. As a society, though, we've gone backwards. I don't know how and I'm not much for prophecy, but I suspect that a lot of guys will find their balls at some point in the future because they have to, not for self-actualization or whatever.
http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2013/03/sam-altman-is-not-blithering-idiot.html?m=1
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Agreed. Women don't need men until they do. War, natural disaster, off-world colonization- situations will arise where survival demands masculine traits including both physical strength and crisis leadership. The communities which hold on the tightest to their feminist values will be the first to fail.
It's not an 'if' question, just when and which.
If trends continue as they are going with no disruptive event to make things interesting, plummeting birthrates in feminist countries will lead to Muslim conquest by sheer demographics within a couple of generations.
[–]Postflop 0 points0 points0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
This video/article shows the cons of masculinity, aside from getting girls wet, are there any other pros?
[–]md619 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago* [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link
I definitely think so. It's fulfilling to me as a man to be masculine, probably analogous to how a women feels fulfillment from raising children. I like working out, being competitive, drinking whisky, and banging broads. Not because I can see some survival advantage to it, but because it feels good to engage in those kind of primal urges and that feeling of being "manly" makes me happy.
Right, I feel you on that. I love playing pool at a competition level because it really brings out the dog in you. You should take up woodworking/metalworking do something with your hands, create. Feelsgoodman.
Anyways back to feminism and all that good stuff. Out of the things you described as masculine I'd say in my experience women also like at least 3 out of 4 of those things.. so if feminists consider these things to be "toxic masculinity" shouldn't they also stop doing that? Like shouldn't feminists.. I mean REAL feminists be in the kitchen/doing laundry/taking care of the kids?
[–]md619 6 points7 points8 points 12 years ago [recovered] (0 children) | Copy Link
Don't expect feminism to make sense.
[–]enticingasthatmaybe 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Women are attracted to masculinity so much that they will try to change themselves to emulate more of it, just to be closer. Look at women in the work force - they are literally cross-dressers in masculine looking business attire.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I think toughening yourself up is a necessary part of growing up. Life has many hard choices. "Manning up" isn't really the problem. Men should man up. They should endeavor to be strong, confident and successful. This article works against the above, and is thus nonsense. It is good to vent occasionally (to other men), but there isn't much use in being really in touch with your emotions. Certainly it won't increase your attractiveness, so never ever ever express your feelings to girls.
However, the phrase "man up" is used a lot in situations that have nothing to do with actually growing stronger. A man also needs to recognize when it is legitimate, and when it is being used by others who are trying to manipulate you for their personal interests. To take what you have.
Since the phrase is used to mean 2 different things, no wonder there is confusion about what should be done.
[–]Hypnot0ad 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
My all time favorite Bill Burr, "What Are You, A Fag!?"
[–]Clauderoughly 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
"the mask you live in" = Feminist propaganda designed to pussy up men and turn them into nice, pliant Beta's.
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[–]redpilldude 4 points5 points6 points (8 children) | Copy Link
[–]Postflop 3 points3 points3 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]redpilldude 1 point2 points3 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]Senior Contributorveggie_girl 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Postflop 1 points1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]Endorsed ContributorrebuildingMyself 6 points7 points8 points [recovered] [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]TRP Vanguardss_camaro 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]redpilldude 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Postflop2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]md619 1 point2 points3 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]dropit_sphere 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Postflop 0 points0 points0 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]md619 1 point2 points3 points [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]Postflop 1 points1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]md619 6 points7 points8 points [recovered] (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]enticingasthatmaybe 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Hypnot0ad 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Clauderoughly 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link