Popular beliefs in MGTOW that you don't agree with?

JacksterTrackster · 2016-08-20T13:25:50+00:00

I disagree when mgtows say AWALT. My aunts have quit their jobs to take care of their husbands and kids, even if their husbands couldn't work. But they grew up in a different time period, so I guess that had something to do with it.

Raiden627 · 2016-08-20T15:53:19+00:00

I would say one that I disagree with the manosphere (not necessarily MGTOW but I've seen some MGTOW say it) is that it's in the best interest of a man to learn dark triad and to not be nice to women. I'm a firm believer in treating all people the way you want to be treated.

Obviously if somebody wants to be an asshole and wants to take advantage of your kindness they don't deserve to be treated this way or to even be in my life at all. One of the biggest reasons why I chose MGTOW over TRP is because TRP just adds to the problem that makes men choose to take TRP in the first place. The system is broken for sure but that doesn't mean that you should do the same things that make it broken. I find that I am happy to just be myself and to not give a fuck if women are attracted to me or not. If women think my kind nature is weak then that's their problem, not mine.

I am a guy who believes that we are not evolved enough to have a society that is giving rather than a taking one. We really have a lot of work to do as humans. If we did these things we wouldn't have MGTOW or TRP. We would all be working together and trying to make the world better in any way that we could. Collaborating. Giving everybody what they wanted in healthy doses. Maybe I'm an idealist and wish for something that may never happen. I understand that this isn't possible now days. Which is why going my own way is truly the only option for me.

EconomistMagazine · 2016-08-20T14:29:44+00:00

[deleted]

notmyusualreddit · 2016-08-20T16:26:51+00:00

While I'll give you that maybe somewhere there's a unicorn out there (just so we dont have to argue about that)... do not for a second think you know all the negatives of your lil angle Celeste.

My exgf of 3 years will seem like that to many people that know her. She really was a cool sounding girl. Has an MBA, still lives at home with family. Seems kind, goes to church, volunteers, donates, good nice conservative all around.

They don't know she was fucking her coworker ex whenever we had a fight (if not more often) for 3 years while lying about his existence to me as I slowly put together the facts.

They don't know the lying slut side of her. They never will. I'm sure some friend of hers thinks she's a unicorn too.

notmyusualreddit · 2016-08-20T14:14:14+00:00

Well AWALT is probably more like 95% - which doesn't change the conclusions of MGTOW of course.
I want to have children. The fact that you can't trust women and love changes nothing for me, only the methods/contracts.
Some MGTOW still have loyalties to their nations or made up morals - I try my best to reject all the blue pill notions I have been brainwashed with.

Glocks10mike · 2016-08-20T15:12:46+00:00

The sex robots thing is fucking weird and it pops up from time to time. Thats one I disagree with. Apparently there's a pretty sizable amount of dudes here who would actually prefer to have sex with a robot than with a hooker for some reason.

seihanda · 2016-08-20T20:19:26+00:00

Most guy here think that MGTOW is a noble calls, no it's not.

Just face it, we're anti-revolution that choose to ignore the problem and let the society fall. We're nihilist and egocentric (though in this era it's fine tobe so)

Also become MGTOW only free you from plantation, what define you is what you do after you free from plantation.

Theccpalestine · 2016-08-20T19:00:39+00:00

The actual HATRED of women is a bit much for me sometimes. Calling them cunts and whores repeatedly in your post makes me think less of you, not them.

arcesious · 2016-08-20T15:24:30+00:00

Since it seems relevant, why don't we examine the terms 'AWALT' and 'NAWALT'?

As is known, these terms stand for 'all women are like that' and 'not all women are like that'. Key descriptors being that women are the subject of the the term and 'like that' is an implication towards how they are, with each term stating the opposite of the other. One is a generalization and the other is an antigeneralization.

But what do we mean by 'like that'? I think the consensus tends to be that when used these terms imply hypergamous and/or emotionally motivated behavior. We are describing how we think women generally are or if you say 'Nawalt', in some cases are not. The problem here stems from our standards of assigning these attributes to women, and it's why in another post here I used the word 'probabilistically' agreeing with someone who disagreed with the AWALT generalization. I am getting to a point here, so bear with me.

Think of a science experiment, or study. You have a hypothesis, you develop a procedure to run an experiment testing that hypothesis, you run an experiment. The experiment ideally should have a control group/controls that prevent outside variables from mucking up the results, and clearly defined variables to record. You then attempt to formulate a conclusion when the data has been collected, possibly revise your original hypothesis to create a new experiment to collect data on something more specific you discovered about the previous data. Obviously, this is hard to do well in sociological studies because instead of control groups you usually have to work with amalgamated survey data, which tends to have a large margin or error due to the nature of asking people questions about themselves. IE: The participants aren't necessary honest.

So we come to 'hypergamy'. As I've seen it claimed 'all women are hypergamous in different degrees'. This may well be true, and in general my experiences and what I've seen lead me to generally agree, but is this a good variable to test for if trying to form an empirically sound point of view? No. If I know anything about experiments, there are often anomalies in the results, a far flung data point or two that occurs even with perfect controls. The way 'hypergamy' is often used is loosely defined, and we should be careful about that. Accuracy is key, if possible. In truth, because this matter is difficult to study empirically, we've all had to make a lot of assumptions, cross referencing experiences with other men and coming to similar general conclusions about it. There are many qualifiers and varying examples by which the AWALT conclusion has been drawn, but the problem is how can we be absolutely sure that was this information indicates is a consistent demonstration of specific variables without strict controls to identify those variables precisely? Since I don't think we can, it is simply due to the nature of probability that I would argue NAWALT is most likely empirically true, and 'AWALT' is generally true. (Since I can't correlate, I extrapolate.) Hell, I don't even have precise numbers about AWALT, all I've got is a guess since that the best I can do with the available information I know of. I won't fool myself saying otherwise.

So if someone says to me 'AWALT is empirically true' instead of 'generally true', I would request citation of that point, because as it stands this is something difficult to make a study of. What are we supposed to do? Ask a few million women in a survey if they approach relationships hypergamously or not? How can we even determine the margin of error for that?

Charles_Offdensen · 2016-08-20T15:54:36+00:00

All women are like that. This refers to their inherent biological drives which will always see men as disposable since in a biological since we are. They will have gynocentric and hypergamous instincts. They will find wealth/resources, ability to protect her, and genetics as most attractive. These instincts are present in all women the only question is to what degree do they act or display these instincts. Women do not love men or at the very least not the mythical ethereal love men think of and the reason women can so easily manipulate them.

gundahir · 2016-08-20T16:11:46+00:00

who guarantees that this unicorn of yours will be faithful and supportive to a male unconditionally, not get fat but care for her looks and satisfy the male sexually and emotionally and whatever else comes to mind ? no manipulation attempts etc. yeah, noone. shes like a piece of material that hasnt been put through the hardness test yet. i 100% believe that there is no marriage worthy woman out there. women whos presence i can tolerate or even enjoy sometimes are a different story.

what i personally dont like is the guys that act like chances to get a false rape accusation after sleeping with a woman are like 90%. they are not.

2016-08-20T15:32:37+00:00

Our collective selection bias.

The majority opinions on this sub are formed by men who are smart enough to understand the concepts and have likely experienced some of these ideas IRL.

I also think it's fair to say that most men here would acknowledge that evolutionary biology is not well studied or understood at the moment, therefore our concepts will evolve over time to incorporate new information as it emerges.

Our group selection bias however can work as a self reinforcing mechanism which can lead to premature conclusions based on insufficient evidence.

raven982 · 2016-08-20T19:18:33+00:00

That PUAs are wrong because they use red-pill knowledge in a different way.

It's their life, their happiness, and their priorities. Why do you care?

2016-08-20T23:01:39+00:00

I love MGTOW as an idea; I think it's absolutely brilliant and I want to see it take the world by storm.

That said, a lot of MGTOW material I see on YouTube spends a lot of time and effort hating on women. This feels contradictory to me. We're men who are purposefully moving away from romantic relationships, focusing on ourselves and cultivating within us what it means to be a man without women.

For all the rhetoric about "going our own way", there's a lot of focus on women in YouTube. It's almost like women have once again made everything about themselves except that, in our case, it's us who are making this all about women.

This is specifically about YouTube, though. I see quite the opposite in this subreddit; lots of guys focusing on what it means to be a guy. That's what I really like about this subreddit - it walks its talk. I like that all of you guys are completely serious about this; this isn't an emotional reaction to crazy feminists. This is a sane, rational response that is healthier for men and gives those crazy radfems exactly what they say they want.

NukaColaCaps · 2016-08-20T15:55:55+00:00

[deleted]

2016-08-20T16:57:48+00:00

Porn use, I fully understand why men use it but if we're suppose to go our own way isn't using porn contradicting that? Idk my main reason against porn is I'm still worshipping women subconsciously by using it.

But, if you can use it in moderation then I say fuck it, go for it but for me personally it's like going inside a candy store; I can't help but binge and that shit takes a toll on my mental health, mind be foggy as fuck and can't concentrate for shit.

I-am-the-lul · 2016-08-21T01:37:41+00:00

For me, basic MGTOW is boycotting marriage/cohabitation and not being a mangina, simp or white knight, while choosing to forgo LTR with women, avoiding the dating scene or even living off the grid are options extra based on your personal risk/benefits analyst.

When it comes to either gender, I treat them on an individual basis.

9115 · 2016-08-20T13:23:33+00:00

Isn't the AWLT proviso one that makes itself known through actions in relationship crisis situations?

All the qualities you list of your platonic friend are not likely to survive a long term relationship once she gets bored or all her girlfriends start to brag about the fun affairs they are having.

My unpopular opinion is that the narrative to work only part time and just cover your living expenses will lead to huge amounts of pain in the approaching future when food prices cannot be held in check from foreign demand and governments are straining under the weight of a fully retired cohort of baby boomer pension costs, healthcare demands and voting shifts.

Read up on what China can do for commodities like the simple walnut and shudder at the thought of India getting their billion mouths in the game once their system of inefficient local farming gets pushed aside should that country ever modernize.

True, everyone will be suffering in those scenarios, but upheaval is coming and the rule of cash-as-king is not going to break first.

cariboo_j · 2016-08-20T16:42:20+00:00

The idea that every moderately attractive girl has an army of simps/beta orbiters lining up to buy her stuff.

I've witnessed that a few times but it's the exception not the rule from my experience.

2016-08-20T18:42:18+00:00

I believe the AWALT thing is a spectrum thing and not some binary on off which all women are switched to on. You could say that a woman who is a 2 on the AWALT scale and a woman who is a 9 on the AWALT scale are both AWALT but by oversimplifying it you miss a lot of details.

I believe toxic feminism is cultural and something that is nurtured in a lot of women when they are at a very young age. American culture is often attracted to immediate short term results or benefits and toxic feminism does this. Both AWALT and SJWs have a super short term mindset and don't build themselves up over a long period of time. Which is why I view them both as weak.

Likewise I believe that toxic masculinity is real and every bit as prevalent with the bill pill guys being an example of this toxic masculinity but there are other forms as well.

I believe that the vast majority of women mostly have it out for each other and view each other as a threat while they view men as something they can control. Hence why you can have them waste each others time rather than you. The enemy of women is other women.

Like other MGTOW/RPS, I believe SJWs are mostly pieces of shit and while a lot of them are aggressive and hostile I believe this is because they are incredibly weak but I also think they are actually over compensating. One of the biggest piece of shit blue pill guys I know raped a friend of mine. In public he comes out as this super feminist over the top virtue signaler but the reality is the guy is a rapist.

I actually think that the brand of feminism which states that women should be strong and capable is a good idea however very few women actually practice this and instead focus on the much more immediate results of victimhood and blaming. So one camp of feminist I will respect considerably, even if I disagree with them on things, while the other camp I view as cry babies who embrace something that only makes them bigger crybabies.

I view trans people as valid gender identities however the agender, non-binary, genderqueer, and whatever stuff I view as bullshit attention seekers.

seihanda · 2016-08-20T19:18:02+00:00

NAWALTs do exist.

The problem is their number are so small (I guess like 1%) and you'll never able to differentiate them with AWALTs. They just blend perfectly. Not to mention you'll spend lots time and energy to fight with other guys to win her heart.

Huge risk, tiring competition, and small gain ?? Logically that just bad bussiness

2016-08-20T19:43:11+00:00

In this thread: guys still believe in unicorns.

2016-08-20T21:32:51+00:00

I think we spend WAY too much time talking and thinking about women. The best posts IMHO are the ones where a dude shows what he did for the weekend or saved up for something new that makes him happy.

Less hate, more (no-homo!) Love!

2016-08-21T00:43:48+00:00

I don't really like the women shaming. I blame society for what we have to experience, especially through marriage and divorce. If men got the opportunity to have alimony payments regularly through an ex-SO, I wouldn't mind taking advantage of that. Women just simply take advantage of the opportunities they are given. This mentality can be converted to regular interaction as well: if I find you an asshole, I'm not going to act any differently just because you have tits and a vagina .

2016-08-21T20:47:23+00:00

I think it's kind of cool that we have supporters and sympathizers among married men. I feel for the "awoken while married" guys and I appreciate that they think about us even though they can't adopt the lifestyle themselves. Some MGTOW though think that a married guy is a long-lost cause.

AnonymousRomulus · 2016-08-22T03:11:11+00:00

I literally cannot understand why men want to return to situations where women do not have rights. Like feminism in the modern world is fucked to hell but women are humans and even if their instinct is to be shitty in their personal lives they are still people with rights and not male slaves like many of the "marry eastern" mgtows act like they are. I can see much of what mgtow says as accurate but views like this make it seem more like a hate group than a self improvement group imo.

firstpitchthrow · 2016-08-20T18:51:43+00:00

A lot of ideas in this forum, and other parts of the manosphere, are things that are generally regarded as being true. There are always exceptions, to each case. Its like what doctors tell you about medicine: most of the time, taking your medicine will help you feel better, but every human body is different, and there is no telling how a particular medicine will interact with you body. Use good judgment and if you think there's a problem, report it. I, for example, found I have an allergy to a particular kind of statin. Statins are amongst the most widely prescribed medicines on the planet, and they are proven safe and effective by decades of research. This group of medicines has saved and extended countless lives. I was allergic to it, so I monitored my use and stopped when I noticed there were problems. Even the greatest things in the world have exceptions. For statin, the odds are overwhelmingly in favor that the medicine will help a given individual, I was one of the few exceptions.

TRP is general sexual strategy, that will work in most cases. However, there are always exceptions. There are over 3.5 Billion women on this planet, that all of them could be AWALT is just not likely to be true, however, the overwhelming lion's share are. This means that searching for a unicorn is not likely to be worth a man's time. The odds of success are very low, and the time could be more efficiently employed on other pursuits. I have, personally, never met a NAWALT, that doesn't mean I don't think they're out there, but that I've never met one tells me all I need to know about what the odds are.

The one thing MGTOW teaches that I disagree with is that men should disregard women. I think men need sex in their lives, and that means dealing with women and their shit. For me, personally, I think hookers are a better way to satisfy the urge, but the urge does have to be satisfied.

2016-08-20T20:49:45+00:00

anti-natalism

Zombocom1911 · 2016-08-20T22:02:19+00:00

Attempting to generalize all women with the term AWALT is a sign of a lazy mind. OF COURSE not all women are the same, unless you want to talk about spirituality and not real life. The uglier and fatter and older they are, for example, the easier they are to get along with and the more bullshit they will put up with, in general, because they have far less options.

CinematicRacer14 · 2016-08-21T03:55:59+00:00

1: That all women are evil. May not be completely off base. But of course all women aren't evil. There are bad women and there are bad men.

2: Don't have any relations with women. Now I don't want to get married. I don't want to be in a committed relationship. But I sure as hell like having sex. Despite all of the headaches that women cause me, I still find them intriguing.

3: That watching porn is okay. Makes no sense. When you watch porn you fuck your brain up and deplete your energy. And you are subconsciously worshiping women.

Noomene · 2016-08-20T15:46:06+00:00

Sigh .... the same white knight brigade at it again.

I wonder how they pay you. With pussy? Probably not. Cause they hate white knights. So how? Cash maybe?

We MGTOWs will give you mangina cuck some more time to see the true colors of Celine "when the chips are down" ... as one joker said once.

victor_knight · 2016-08-20T14:10:29+00:00

Just about everything I say is unpopular here.

Title	Popular beliefs in MGTOW that you don't agree with?
Author	NukaColaCaps
Upvotes	56
Comments	122
Date	August 20, 2016 1:10 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MGTOW
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MGTOW/comments/4yoyii/popular_beliefs_in_mgtow_that_you_dont_agree_with/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MGTOW/popular-beliefs-in-mgtow-that-you-dont-agree-with.625659 https://theredarchive.com/post/625659

Comments

1: That all women are evil. May not be completely off base. But of course all women aren't evil. There are bad women and there are bad men.

2: Don't have any relations with women. Now I don't want to get married. I don't want to be in a committed relationship. But I sure as hell like having sex. Despite all of the headaches that women cause me, I still find them intriguing.

3: That watching porn is okay. Makes no sense. When you watch porn you fuck your brain up and deplete your energy. And you are subconsciously worshiping women.