Sooner or later /r/MGTOW will be banned and I want to say this.

nehus · 2017-11-08T21:45:11+00:00

I think we all know it. When that happends we will go to voat.co/v/mgtow and https://www.mgtow.com/ but I want to say something more. I'm going to be...

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[–]omni_wisdumb7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago* (11 children) | Copy Link

I started off in the medical profession and quit to grow an import-export company. My company deals with precious minerals and agricultural products, we operate in about 10 countries.

I also created a small VC fund that works with biotechnology, which has been doing pretty good since I have both a business and academic background (undergrad was Electrical Engineering and Biology - Subset Neurobiology). As for software engineers, I have 10 of them on my ADP payroll, not including those who work for the companies I'm invested in.

I am by no means some super wealthy billionaire, but as I stated, statistically speaking, I am one of the wealthiest people on Reddit.

EDIT: And again, I am only stating this to point out the major flaw in the notion that you have to sacrifice having relationships with women to become successful. I would say the love and support I got through my relationships, even from those who are now my exes, played a major role in me keeping it emotionally together through all the stress.

[–]piffslinger5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]omni_wisdumb4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Ironically, it was a bad breakup that led me down this path. My long-term girlfriend broke up with me AFTER cheating with an acquaintance I introduced her to.

I spent the whole summer learning how to use the COMEX, FOREX, and equities markets. During college, I did some trips to East Africa for medical volunteering, learned about their agricultural and mining industries. I intended on starting a nonprofit to help them out, but it was more complicated than just starting a business. So I said "fuck it", why trade COMEX and FOREX and let someone else make the real money when I can just give it a go myself. Took about 4 years before I made any real profit, and that was right when I had to pretty much pick if I wanted to continue in medicine. Luckily it took off quite fast after that, having money to grow really does wonders.

I do have a few friends that are so incredibly passionate about their work that I feel a bit of regret not pursuing being a surgeon. One thing that sucks about life is that you pick your path and have to live with it. "What ifs" can really kill you on the inside though.

[–]piffslinger1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]omni_wisdumb10 points11 points12 points 8 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

I think I'm in a very weird level of success.

If you have what I call a "lifestyle" company, then you're sort of getting all the advantages of a successful business. I think of a "lifestyle" company as one that makes enough to pay the bills and leaves enough to have fun and enjoy some luxuries, let's even say that's up to $5M/yr. You are your own boss, you can tell your employees or a manager to take care of things and go on a vacation, hell maybe for a whole month.

But at some point, if your business gets big or complex enough, things change. You may be your own boss, but the company controls your life. You can't just go on vacation whenever you wanted like you dreamed. You reach a level of responsibility where you can't simply avoid work by throwing enough onto other people and taking a nice break. I fly internationally 1-2 times a month, and domestically about 1-2 times a week. It's shit I have to do myself, a lot of it includes nonsensical signing and corporate stamps (some countries like in East Africa require traditional inked stamps) which for some reason still need to be done in person in 2017. I sleep about 4-6hrs a night, and I'm constantly changing time zones. I also have a whole new set of regulations to follow, and I have more eyes on me as far as the government goes. Granted, most of that has to do with the nature of my business being that I work with things like gold and diamonds that are often used for money laundering and criminal financing.

It also makes it very tough to have a relationship, since it's hard to gauge what the person is after. I do mitigate that by not having social media, so people can't really look me up when we date. I also still own my 2001 Toyota Carolla that I would drive on the first few dates. I will say, meeting a woman that has her own accomplishments definitely helps diminish the idea that she's after your success because she lacks her own, and it helps to be able to relate with someone that understands where you're coming from. Not having time for your loved ones (parents, siblings, SOs, friends, and future children) really sucks. One of the main reasons I decided not to stay the course of being a surgeon is that I wanted to have time for my family and social life, now I have even less now. So here's the thing I just realized. Ironically, I'm exactly what this sub is wishing for. I sacrificed having a relationship and kids to become successful... and you know what? It sucks. I was WAY happier when I had far less but was in a loving relationship. That's why it makes me sad to see this mentality. I've experienced both sides, and the people spreading the concept of "fuck relationships, focus on success" were probably burned very bad, jaded, or reading up on reverse survivorship bias and confirmation bias examples. No amount of success makes you feel as good as being in love, missing out on that (in my opinion) is truly a grand experience to lose out on in life. Getting burned by bad marriage sucks, but you'll move on. And again, there's like a 70% chance it ends well, I'd have killed if someone told me being an entrepreneur had a 70% success rate. Just my 2 cents. And mainly, I think you can balance a relationship with most levels of success, and the majority of people will never reach the point where they really need to sacrifice having a relationship for their work life. I'd rather have a wife and kids right now than some nice toys.

I will say though while having fun toys is nice, you can't really talk about it with any of your old friends because you just seem like a douche. For example, when I finally bought my dream watch (Patek Philippe 5940J-001), I couldn't really go and show my friends or family, because they would be angry or jealous instead of happy for me. Which sucks, because I came here as a baby when my parents immigrated, so it's not like I don't know how being poor is like. Luckily for me, I don't really have expensive taste so I stay pretty low-key. I am into horology and scotch, but luckily the average person doesn't really know when I'm wearing a nice watch since brands (other than Rolex, which I stay away from, other than the less identifiable Cellini series). Also, people are super awkward about giving gifts because they think whatever they buy you are probably not "nice" to you, which is silly, I shop at Target and Walmart like everyone else.

The next level is when you reach publically traded status, typically where you're going to find your billionaires. The board and management team now will take over many of your responsibilities, and you again have time to fuck around. However, your company really isn't yours anymore, like the board can literally kick you out. You lose full control of your baby at the expense of more free time. Your main concern now is also your fiduciary duty to your public shareholders. That's how you get shit like Chevron doing heinous things in South America if the move is good for shareholders, fuck the environment and people you step on. I want to make sure I'm in full control of my ethics, which is hard to duty when you LEGALLY have to do what is best for your ticker price. If I ever did go public, I would convert to a B-corporation ("for benefit corporation"), which basically means the company's obligation to your social cause supersedes shareholder value.

EDIT: There's also the class of wealthy people who inherited it or were given it through some mechanism like Russian oligarchy or Saudi Arabian princes, but that's a whole different story.

Hope you enjoyed the random rant and inside into a stranger's life.

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[–]GrimyBrisketbeard2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link

I think you need to loosen your ascot about 9 billion notches.

You're seriously going to tell a teenager that he's wrong for focusing on his hopes and dreams instead of plowing blind into the disaster area that is the modern dating realm? Do you understand the negative life outcomes that often occur when teenagers focus on relationships as much as they do their life goals? Back when you were a socially-inept nerd, your life would've ended-up a total disaster if you'd have rushed into relationships because you would've been naive to the game, but now, you're advising this kid not to embrace a philosophy that has given him confidence and the motivation to work on his goals? At a bare minimum, if he decides not to be MGTOW anymore several years from now, he will be far ahead of the game in his career and life goals, and won't be as open to the potential of a failed relationship ruining everything because his worldview will have more depth and maturity. Speaking of failed relationships, you admit that you've had several.

I had several great relationships

You're not exactly the dating guru you think you are, if you keep serial dating. Being that you're a billionaire who is the greatest at everything there is to be great at, it seems like you'd know that statistically speaking, you're playing with fire by constantly entering and exiting relationships. You're lying if you say that at-least a few of those failed relationships didn't open your eyes a bit to the social realities of the world.

Now, run along before your lapdog misses its yoga class

[–]omni_wisdumb-1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

I'm glad you think you know me, but you don't.

First of all, my parents brought me to the USA as first generation immigrants, and I had nothing growing up. I worked my ass of for everything that I have. Second off all, you're damn well I like to enjoy my success, which includes dressing well when appropriate, and I absofuckinglutly have an ascot. But I'm also very much still level headed, I drive my old 2001 Toyota Corrola most of the time. The only pet I have is a free cat I found stray under the hood of my car, thank you very much. And yoga is actually pretty good for you, although I don't so it.

As for the bulk of this discussion. I never told the kid not to follow his dreams. I said he can and should be able to balance following his dreams with having a relationship. If you're in a relationship that is keeping you from your goals, you're in the wrong relationship.

I said I was a nerd, I didn't say I was socially inept. I had a girlfriend all through HS, I just wasn't the most self confident person, and she helped give me some. As for your bold statement of having ended up a disaster, that's ridiculous. My friends and I all dated through HS and we are all for the most part professionals. The few that aren't wasn't due to women, but do to making shitty friends and getting into drugs.

I never said I was a dating guru, I said to claim that you have to forgoe relationships to be successful is utterly bull shit, which it is. My circle includes business men, politicians, lawyers, doctors, engineers, programmers, and the like. And they all had normal social lives and relationships throughout their life. Having relationships, especially at that age, teaches you important social skills. Getting laid helps with stress and boosts confidence. And a little heart break never hurt anyone, if anything it makes people stronger. My first major heart break quite literally let me down the path that brought me where I am.

Now, run along before your miss work and can't pay your rent or miss your raid part online.

[–]GrimyBrisketbeard2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

I'm actually glad I don't know you. Thanks for the irrelevant rehashing of your life story, Cupcake.

As for your bold statement of having ended up a disaster, that's ridiculous. My friends and I all dated through HS and we are all for the most part professionals. The few that aren't wasn't due to women, but do to making shitty friends and getting into drugs.

You're a complete ignoramus if your worldview tells you that teenage relationships aren't often volatile and result in negative ramifications that last a lifetime. I'm not even willing to engage you any further on such low-level thinking, and you should be ashamed of yourself for living in denial just to defend an already ridiculous position.

The kid loses absolutely nothing if he gets his life together before rushing into relationships, or at a bare minimum, learns the truth about how modern relationship dynamics work.

You can make all the trillions of dollars you want, but you've proven that you will always be a mental peasant

[–]omni_wisdumb-1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]GrimyBrisketbeard2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]omni_wisdumb1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

OK buddy.

You show me one peer reviewed source that indicated that teenagers having shitty relationships leads to poor life outcomes.

As I stated, my background was neurobiology, and if you'd go through my comments you'll see one field I focused on was metal health of adolescents, so your talking out of your ass.

It is in fact the LACK of social relationships on adolescents and young adulthood that leads to poor adult life factors, such as depression.

If I wanted to flaunt and show off I wouldn't be doing it anonymously.

And as I stayed multiple times, which you seem to be missing. I am simply staying that it is untrue to claim that a person cannot balance pursuing their goals and having a relationship, not is it impossible to become successful while having relationships. That is the entire bases of my comment. Everything else is nonsense you're bringing up.

Have a good day sir, I won't be entertaining you with a reply, so if you want to make a final rebuttal and sit back and smile and feel like you won something, go for it. Like I said, good luck in life stranger.

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[–]omni_wisdumb7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

I'm fairly sure it was my intelligence and intuition that made my company successful, but thanks for the concern.

As for the legal system and taking my money. First of all, it's a two-way street. If a wealthy woman divorces a man who doesn't make much, he is entitled to half as well.

Secondly, there are things within the legal system to aid you, such a prenuptial agreement. I think the average joe and joette don't need one, especially if they are relatively making (or worth, such as inheritance) the same amount. A man making $50k/yr and a woman making $40k/yr probably don't need one. In my case I do, and I explain it to my SOs, who completely understand. I started my company on my own and brought it to a stable and successful level on my own, so any growth after getting married is due to my efforts alone, so they are not entitled to it if things end. I also have a responsibility to my employees, people in my supply chain, and my end buyers (in the case of publicly traded companies, the owner would have a fiduciary duty to shareholders) to have my company running under proper leadership. So in that sense, I also have to protect the company from being split in any way in the event of a divorce. But like I said, the average couple doesn't need to worry about that.

And sure, you never know, things can always end, I agree with that. But that can also happen if it's two men married, it's not just women.

As for your notion. You are basically running off of a reverse survivorship bias coupled with confirmation bias. For every case of divorce or getting fucked over, I can show you 3 cases of it not ending that way. For one, the whole "50% divorce rate" statistic is incredibly misleading since it accounts for multiple divorce incidences for the same individual, and people who get one divorce have a high rate of getting multiple, this inflates the numerator-denominator ratio. Furthermore, people from very very low socioeconomic environments have a very high divorce rate, and those outliers also help bull the mean down. If you account for those two factors, you see a divorce rate closer to 30%, and if you take away people getting married before they leave college (which I think is stupid), it's closer to 20%. So yea, for every divorce you show me, I can show you 5 good marriages.

My advice is simple, having a relationship doesn't mean you can't be successful, which is more so a fact. And again, it's damn good advice, just like telling someone to take the risk to become an entrepreneur which has a ~80% failure rate, and ~19% of those successes are going to be "lifestyle" companies that allow you to have a good independent life and not actually be on of the ~1% that ends up making a company that isn't designated as "small business" (which is considered <$50M annual rev in the USA).

In any case, I'm not really giving advice, I'm sharing a different point of view an trying to have a dialogue. So thanks, and just remember, when you start off talking shit, it pretty much means you already "lost".

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[–]omni_wisdumb3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Prenups don't get thrown out all the time. I don't think you even know how a prenuptial agreement works. They get thrown out if clauses are breached by either party. For example: if mine says in the case of infidelity, and I cheat on my wife, then it has voided the contract. You can even write up contracts that say you CAN be caught cheating and still keep it all. They can't cover illegal things however, like beating your wife.

Again, the VAST majority of couples never need to worry about this because they don't make enough or both spouses make relatively the same.

30% is a lot, you know what's more? 70%. Russian roulette kills you if you fail. Most marriages fail and it's just two people falling out of love, and going on with their lives to find a new person. They don't all end with nightmare divorce court.

As for your infidelity statement, MEN ARE FAAAAAR more likely to be the ones who commit infidelity.

I don't know who you hang out with, but most of the women I know have not slept with 10+ people. And I'd say the same argument of higher partners leading to higher chances of infidelity also applies to men, and men typically have higher sex partner counts than women. So yea, men can fuck over the woman at the drop of a hat too. What about gay couples? They can get divorced too, and there are no women involved!

ANYONE can fuck you over at the drop of a hat, doesn't mean you should never take a chance on anyone.

Also, as I stated, you think 30% failure rate is bad? Then you'll never have the balls to be an entrepreneur because it's like an 80% failure rate, and only 1% will become anything more than a "lifestyle company". The best things in life are the things you take risks on. And finding a good woman to marry, and raising a family, can be the most rewarding thing in life. And as a statistical fact about 2.33 times more likely to happen, so why not look at the bright side? If someone told me I had a 70% chance of making a successful business, I'd be a moron to have not taken it.

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Prenups don't get thrown out all the time. I don't think you even know how a prenuptial agreement works. They get thrown out if clauses are breached by either party. For example: if mine says in the case of infidelity, and I cheat on my wife, then it has voided the contract. You can even write up contracts that say you CAN be caught cheating and still keep it all. They can't cover illegal things however, like beating your wife.

And again, the VAST majority of couples never need to worry about this because they don't make enough or both spouses make relatively the same.

As for your Australian example, did you read the article? After the 2nd paragraph, it was pretty clear she signed it under duress, which is a very common way to void a contract. The article even describes the contract as: "the agreement was “entirely inappropriate” and the worst her solicitor had ever seen.". So yea, he just had a shitty prenuptial agreement. Pigs get fed, hogs get slaughtered, remember that. If he had written a fair agreement it wouldn't have had happened. So blame him and his lawyers being idiots.

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[–]omni_wisdumb1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Believe it or not, women can get jobs in today's world. Sometimes, even get paid more than men.

I have had a "good experience", as I stated in another comment, my first long term girlfriend cheated on me and broke up with me. Did I get jaded? No. In fact, it pretty much set into motion events that let me to start my business.

And as I said, you don't have to give up your goals to have a relationship. If you're doing that, it's on you, and you're quite frankly a fool in a bad relationship. Any good woman would never let you give up your goals for her, because of she cares about you and sees a future with you, she would know that your goals are for the good of the team.

Everything you said I an extreme. Maybe instead he finds a smart, independent, and loving woman who has her own shit together and her own goals and they both support pen another as a team, augmenting one another, and become better people and more successful with each other's support.

[–]strangerthing70 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]omni_wisdumb20 points21 points22 points 8 years ago* (24 children) | Copy Link

But I don't see how drama is exclusive to women. I think you should remove all toxic people from your life. You can have a friend, or sometimes even family member that is keeping you from your goals whether it's through financial, emotional, or physical means.

Is this sub also saying gay men should not date? Or is it specifically saying women are the key to failure? I just don't get it. Don't get me wrong there are a lot of shitty women, but that can be said of men too. I've had plenty of relationships where my SO dragged me down or didn't share my motivations. But I've also had relationships where the woman augmented me for the better and supported me on my journey in life. I think it's silly to say Mr. W had his life ruined by Mrs. X, thus Mrs. Y will ruin Mr. Z's life.

I think finding a GOOD partner in life, whether it's a man or woman or whatever the hell else there is now, can be a grand and rewarding experience. Sex just happens to be a physical outlet that people use to show love, but of course people can have it without emotions as well.

I think it's completely fair for an individual to say that they personally feel that having a relationship will slow them down, but to say that as a blanket statement seems ridiculous.

And I didn't state my financial status to be condescending, I stated it because this sub seems to have building wealth (as you even just referenced as an advantage) as a major aspect of staying out of a relationship, so it's very much relevant since I've done so more successfully than most people and didn't have to sacrifice being in relationships.

As for rule 6, sorry, I was using the BaconReader platform and it doesn't show the side bar. I read it now. I don't see how I am "concern trolling". I'm not trolling, I'm trying to have a candid conversation. Believe it or not, you can have conversations with people who don't share your opinions, in fact that's how both people can expand their views (assuming their open to it). As for the Rule 9, I'm assuming that is in regards to bragging about getting laid or being in good relationships, and my wealth statement (as I mentioned above), was more so to add perspective.

Edit: Also, I agree with a lot of aspects of this sub, such as being against political correctness. I just think it's silly to specify that women are the issue. At the least, you could argue relationships in general are a crutch. Or else sure, in any relationship there's a chance things like cheating and divorce happens, the women have the same issues with men. But advising people to not take the risk is the same advice as people telling potential entrepreneurs to not risk starting a business bc there's a high fail rate and that it's a difficult path. It sure is, but you know what, when you get it right, your life will be amazing. This sub is about being a man, and I think a man should be able to have a conversation even when it doesn't make him feel easy, and I think blocking someone who's saying things you disagree with is the very essence of political correctness, so I hope the mods see I am trying to have a legitimate dialog and don't delete this.

Thanks for taking the time to read, and may you all have an extraordinary life.

[–]Akuzed8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Akuzed4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

This will be a long read but it's some backstory to me.

I'm new to this sub, but the things that I have said are all things that I have been thinking for a long time.

I recall as a child the way my mother raked my dad over the coals when they split up. She was an addict and got custody of me. I got beat severely. It took him spending almost 100k over 2 years to win custody of me back.

Also experienced the same shit with my daughter and her mother. I begged for her not to abort. Begged. Had to agree to pay all medical costs to keep my kid.

I raised my kid for the next ten years of her life. I was her mother and her father. As such we celebrated mothers day and fathers day. Shortly after we moved to Kentucky after my dad died I received summons for court.

22k later and I got raked over the coals. I tried to reason with her. Told her I would freely agree to one year on and one year off for custody alternating holidays.

She took me to court and won joint custody but I am responsible for 2/3rds all medical costs and travel costs. She didn't have to pay any backdue child support either. If it was me I would have been fucked in the ass.

Since my ex, I haven't really looked at women the same. Between my ex and my mom I am shocked that I can even look at women and not feel utter contempt.

But I am an educated man and know logically that not all women are like this, but enough psychological damage has been done to me that I don't really consider things like marriage and long term relationships any longer.

With all that said though this is my first time on the sub. Didn't know a community like this existed and I am glad to have found it.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]omni_wisdumb4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

OK, and a man in a relationship can't suddenly switch up? Statistically, we cheat WAY more than women.

The rest of my rebuttal I'll copy&paste from my reply to the above commenter.

Right, and at no point did I say women don't have problems associated with them. Everything you said applies to the other side, if a woman is making more than the man, he will be the one making money off of a divorce. What do you think about gay marriages? All the same, things apply, yet no man. There are also things within the legal system, such as prenuptial agreements. I also think the average couple, especially when making or being worth relatively the same, need to worry about it. I've never had a SO who had an issue with signing a prenup after I explain my stance. As for your statements about false rape and the such, sure, it's awful, but that shit is rare. For every case you can count, I can count 5-10 that involves a man and woman having a wonderful life with no extreme issues. I made a small explanation about the "50% divorce rate" being a flawed statistic, you can look for it in the thread, as I don't want to copy&paste.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]omni_wisdumb0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Right, and at no point did I say women don't have problems associated with them. Everything you said applies to the other side, if a woman is making more than the man, he will be the one making money off of a divorce. What do you think about gay marriages? All the same, things apply, yet no man.

There are also things within the legal system, such as prenuptial agreements. I also think the average couple, especially when making or being worth relatively the same, need to worry about it. I've never had a SO who had an issue with signing a prenup after I explain my stance.

As for your statements about false rape and the such, sure, it's awful, but that shit is rare. For every case you can count, I can count 5-10 that involves a man and woman having a wonderful life with no extreme issues.

I made a small explanation about the "50% divorce rate" being a flawed statistic, you can look for it in the thread, as I don't want to copy&paste.

[–]Akuzed2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]omni_wisdumb4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

I think Australia needs to get its shit together if that is the case, but I suspect there's more to that story.

I absolutely don't think MGTOW hates women. From what I gathered, albeit within only about 15min of looking around, it seems Y'all are just very much against relationships because it will get in the way of a successful or drama-free life. I am commenting in the sub to discuss with people in this community so I can learn more about it, I haven't formed any opinions yet.

However, with the notion that a relationship is somehow always going to be a burden, I just simply disagree. I think some of the best support I've had in my life was from some really wonderful relationships, and the positivity they brought in my life far exceeded the negative brought by the shitty ones.

Just my 2 cents.

[–]Akuzed2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Speaking only for myself, I don't think it's that every relationship is bad, but rather that the cost to benefit ratio isn't good enough on the grand scale to consider it a viable option any longer for many of us.

Someone commented to me on this thread as well and I explained a bit of my backstory. Should only be a comment chain or two down, but after reading it you may understand. My old man got fucked over by the system and so did i. As I freely admit it's amazing that I don't regard all women with scorn.

I have a daughter, and want a son but I'll never have a son from my own genetic make up after the shit I went though with my ex. Now I'll adopt a son. Only thing I want a son for is to carry on the name. An adopted kid can do that just as well.

I've had good relationships but they haven't outweighed the financial stress, or the emotional stress, or the physical stress, or the psychological stress that the bad ones have done to me. I think most the folks here agree.

[–]strangerthing7-1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]GrimyBrisketbeard2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

You're a walking straw man argument

But I don't see how drama is exclusive to women. I think you should remove all toxic people from your life. You can have a friend, or sometimes even family member that is keeping you from your goals whether it's through financial, emotional, or physical means

No one said drama is exclusive to women. MGTOW is a man's space to talk about the drama that is specific to women though. There aren't male spaces to do it from a "walking away perspective," thus, MGTOW is indifferent to other forms of drama not relating to male-female gender dynamics.

Is this sub also saying gay men should not date?

No, you're saying that. We're not saying it because it's a ridiculous comparison that relates to absolutely nothing relevant

Don't get me wrong there are a lot of shitty women, but that can be said of men too

And it does get said about men in the billions of places that discuss how horrible men are, including the media and the school system. However, you choose to throw a tantrum because one obscure philosophy discusses the male perspective

And I didn't state my financial status to be condescending, I stated it because this sub seems to have building wealth (as you even just referenced as an advantage) as a major aspect of staying out of a relationship, so it's very much relevant since I've done so more successfully than most people and didn't have to sacrifice being in relationships.

And you're extremely naive if you don't think failed relationships, wining and dining women, having kids etc., are a one-way ticket for a man to lose his wealth. These are objective facts and can't even be seriously argued against.

[–]omni_wisdumb0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You're a jaded, sad, lonely man sir. I wish you luck in life.

I didn't know much about this sub, as I stated, so I started a dialog to find out more. If you want to bitch about women, go for it, I came to talk about my perspective with those interested, and based on the votes I'd say peole are.

Little boy, the only naive person is you. Oh, money is used for your SO? Really? Oh gee, what did you want to hoard it for? To buy more fleshlights, video games, and Mountain Dew? News flash, that's life. You get married and have kids and you spend money on your family. Hopefully you're smart enough to find a partner that is a relatively equal provider. Guess? Women have jobs now too! They can pay for dinner, buy you gifts, and help raise kids! It's crazy I know! Now if you're really smart, you'll find a SO that has comparable if not higher income, and you have even more money! Woo-hoo!

[–]GrimyBrisketbeard2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

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You are basically running off of a reverse survivorship bias coupled with confirmation bias. For every case of divorce or getting fucked over, I can show you 3 cases of it not ending that way. For one, the whole "50% divorce rate" statistic is incredibly misleading since it accounts for multiple divorce incidences for the same individual, and people who get one divorce have a high rate of getting multiple, this inflates the numerator-denominator ratio. Furthermore, people from very very low socioeconomic environments have a very high divorce rate, and those outliers also help bull the mean down. If you account for those two factors, you see a divorce rate closer to 30%, and if you take away people getting married before they leave college (which I think is stupid), it's closer to 20%. So yea, for every divorce you show me, I can show you 5 good marriages.

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We've thought all this stuff through. Read the news. Prenups are thrown out like toilet paper. As for taxes, alimony has been being payed from pre-tax income on the payer side, and the recipient has been paying taxes on it as income. Paul Ryan's tax plan is going to change that, so that the one paying alimony (pretty much always the man) will pay that from after-tax income, and the recipient will not be taxed on this income. We're way way ahead of you. You're in the denial phrase. This denial comes from the fact that society wants us ignorant. You have to go through it yourself, know guys who have, or go talk to a really good lawyer to find how things really work. Most guys find out in divorce court, because society hides this from men in order to use us as disposable resources to maintain ex-wives for life.

edit: "empowering" LMAO.

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[–]MaestroLogical2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Personally, I'm going my own way for a plethora of reasons, none of which involve anything remotely resembling hatred.

I'm going my own way because I feel like various social experiments starting in the 70's have twisted society into a fevered mess and I want no part of it. I feel like we, as a society, have lost sight of the forest while we focus on trees, and become far too dependent on labels to allow us to easily dismiss others without consideration.

I'm going my own way because I watched first hand as feminism morphed from being a movement about empowering women and treating them equally to a philosophy designed to create thin skinned perma victims. I grew up a male feminist, desired a strong independent woman and then became an adult right as it was shifting from being about girl power into being about getting all the rights without any of the responsibility.

I have sworn off relationships, not because I hate or blame women (they are just as much victims in this as men are, nobody is happy) but because they simply aren't stable enough. Women act like petulant children due to their conditioning and are wholly unwilling to compromise or be reasoned with, much as society at large is daily. (Men act like spineless Peter Pan's due to the same conditioning,so don't interpret that as me hating women)

I opted out until society gets its shit together.

I come here to help others shake off that toxic conditioning.

I come here to explain that the rage posts are valid (still not hatred) as a first step in shaking off said conditioning. They help to paint a picture of the real world consequences of these various social experiments and allow others to realize they aren't alone in recognizing/experiencing them.

Outsiders peek in occasionally and only see the rage posts, which are always present for the reasons stated above. Always present but never actually prevalent. Outsiders notice and take offense to it... As a result of said conditioning.

Dig in to the substance of the sub, stay a few days and you soon realize it's not a seething hotbed of hate but rather a way of acknowledging that real anger (at the system playing all of us, women included) and allowing men to safely work past it and move on.

As for my personal life experiences... I've been a borderline stud since puberty, stopped counting sexual partners at 40 when I was in my mid 20's. Engaged once but we were better as friends.

I'm not bitter. I'm not resentful and thanks to this sub, I'm over the anger at society leading me astray with lofty, but poorly thought out, experiments ala 'everyone gets a gold star!'.

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Title	Sooner or later /r/MGTOW will be banned and I want to say this.
Author	nehus
Upvotes	311
Comments	146
Date	November 8, 2017 9:45 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MGTOW
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MGTOW/comments/7boo52/sooner_or_later_rmgtow_will_be_banned_and_i_want/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MGTOW/sooner-or-later-rmgtow-will-be-banned-and-i-want.642031 https://theredarchive.com/post/642031

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