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[–]CuriousIncel2 11 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Feminism has largely been successful in eradicating cultural responsibilities from women.
But I'd like to point out that in traditional societies, women are also expected to "earn" their womanhood, via motherhood.
[–]retal1ator 4 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
You seem to forget men have intrinsic value as well, just like women.
Perhaps you're right in saying that because in some societies men do have to openly prove themselves more than women.
[–]birdperson_c137 15 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Lmao nope.
What male has "intrinsic value"? Seriously, name one male that is appreciated, but not for doing good in the market or being like top tier attractive (usually also by performing well in market or in certain dominance hierarchy)
Women have intrinsic value as childbearing and procreation ranks high in male interest pyramid, also as gatekeepers of intercourse you're putting their SMV higher. That's intrinsic value, ie value by existence instead of performance. Although you could argue it's mostly still performance, it's just the biology facilitating it.
Males have no intrinsic value not tied to positions in various dominance hierarchies.
Women obviously have the baseline advantage of carrying eggs, but men in society do have a value just because they are men. And it's because men are capable of doing things women simply can't. Without men and their skills society would fucking collapse and women would eventually die.
What you are describing is that fact that women generally are considered valuable by default (and will almost always do okay), while men need to prove themselves therefore some men end up failing more than the average woman and some end up being considered more valuable than the average woman. Science supports this as men have more variance than women in terms of skills, proficiency, social status, etc...
The single man has to scale the social ladder if he wants to gain a good position, but men as a group do definitely have an intrinsic value. Manhood has value. The post refers to manhood and therefore I disagree that manhood has no value intrinsically.
But it's true men have to prove themselves more if they want to bang bang.
[–]birdperson_c137 5 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
men in society do have a value just because they are men. And it's because men are capable of doing things women simply can't. Without men and their skills society would fucking collapse and women would eventually die
The entire point of men is to kill yourself trough scaling the hierarchy so optimal male would protect the woman.
Imagine thinking your "intrinsic value" is to be an evolutionary dead end and to die so some guy "can scale the ladder". And that is all driven by necessity of his positioning to acquire pussy.
"intrinsic value" my ass lmao
Consider this. Let's asume you're 22, average looking male. We don't know about your personality, success, etc. Both you and your 22 yo looksmatch are stranded on a piece of debris following the Titanic incident. There's only enough space for one of you to float away.
Now ask people which one of these people are disposable and should suffocate in order for another to survive. 99 percent will say kill the penised individual. It's because it's the point of the penis to die. Scaling the hierarchy (ie. dying) for the benefit of woman is literally your job description. Woman should be saved due to her intrinsic value, which you do not have at all.
See? Intrinsic value and performative value are completely different concepts. Had a man been Elon Musk or someone who actually feeds thousands of women that makes a difference. But thats performative. In just intrinsic judgements, man are just not designed to win the contest. The point is to create contests between themselves which secure the value for the winners.
[–]Yami-no-Kami 4 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Talking about value and being disposable.
When I was a child, I was at a facility, that specialized itself in keeping endangered, native species alive and avoiding their potential extinction. We had a guide showing us around and he explained quite a few things about their job. One thing he said was, that male individuals are more disposable in the eyes of nature, than female ones. If a male one dies, it isn't such a drama for the species since there'll always be another male to impregnate the females (as long as said species isn't too endangered or about to be extinct). But if a female dies it's more critical, because then a whole new generation including their offsprings have no chance to ever exist and keeping the species on this planet.
So I think it makes sense to have instincts, that prioritize the life and well-being of female individuals.
But in our modern society with all of its advantages you could definitely ask yourself if they're still needed. After all, women can get jobs as well and survive on their own without the help of a man and vice-versa. The only thing that women would need from a man is a strong body to do things that they're usually too weak for. And of course women would still have the "burden" of reproduction and taking care of their children. But with enough money from the state they can stay at home for 1-2 years and then return to work.
[–]retal1ator 1 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
If I were stranded on a life boat and I knew only one could be eventually saved, I would make sure I am the only one left when people come to the rescue. And being a strong man, I am positive I would have more chances than a woman.
Your idea that men need to scale the social ladder otherwise they won't reproduce is correct, but that doesn't dispute that men do have collectively an intrinsic value. Without men you have no inventions, no civilization, no order. Yes, you are right that men will be chosen after women to survive in a desperate situation, I am merely saying men are not worthless by default, perhaps society nowadays thinks so because men's role has been replaced by safe daddy gov.
[–]F3daykin 2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
This
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[–]CuriousIncel2 11 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]retal1ator 4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]birdperson_c137 15 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]retal1ator 4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]birdperson_c137 5 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Yami-no-Kami 4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]retal1ator 1 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]F3daykin 2 points (1 child) | Copy Link