I recently broke up with my boyfriend after he found Jesus again during our relationship. I'm firmly agnostic and he was athetist until he did a 180 after his father recovered from Cancer.
We have a lot of mutual friends as we both went to a Christian private school since both our families are various degrees of religious.
I found out two days ago I'm two weeks pregnant and have booked a termination since I'm uninterested I'm having a child with him. I confided in a close friend who is ultimately prochoice but she's said that I'm an asshole if I don't tell my ex about the kid before I do it. She thinks he deserves to know as the father and emotionally it will devastate him if he finds out in the future.
I think its more damaging if he were to grow attached to a child I have 0 intention of keeping. I am almost 100% certain if I tell him, he will harass me to keep it and try get together again. He's gone full fundementalist and one of the reasons we broke up is because I refused to go to church with him.
Would I be an asshole if I refuse to inform him and getting a termination without his consent?
[–]dszmaj 18 points19 points20 points (66 children) | Copy Link
Pro life or pro choice, doesn't matter in this situation.
Father deserves to know, but IMHO she's not obligated to keep the pregnancy. There is not much good for the child to rise without family, better to have an abortion as much as I hate to admit it.
[–]Oncefa2 6 points7 points8 points (3 children) | Copy Link
He's not entitled to pay for or help raise the child then.
If you want to be pro-choice, then you have to be pro-choice for men as well.
[–]dszmaj 9 points10 points11 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I'm pro responsibility. If a woman decides to keep a baby against father's will, it's only hers responsibility to raise it.
[+]AgitatedMoose61 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
I am pro choice for both genders.
I believe women have the right to abortion.
I believe that men should be given the opportunity to opt-out of parental rights and responsibilities in the same time frame in which a woman can abort (but you can't change your mind, once you have opted in/out, you're in/out, and abortion is basically the same) or as soon as he learns the child exists if he was not informed during the pregnancy.
[–]PlatinumBeetle -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
So where the fuck is your support for a man's choice to be a dad? You're still advocating for 0 positive parental rights for males.
[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points (61 children) | Copy Link
Well neither was I when my drug addicted mother and father allowed me into this world, I never had 2 parents, always lived with my grandmother and was mostly self sufficient most of my life. They said just have an abortion, thankfully they didn’t. I’m very happy to be alive today and I’m studying rn in college and working a good job. There is no excuse, killing a human being because of the parents mistakes and or for their convenience is immoral IMO. We’re all entitled to our own opinion.
[–]Oncefa2 5 points6 points7 points (4 children) | Copy Link
You have valid points for which I have a lot of sympathy for. I just don't think the government should be getting into people's personal lives to try and regulate morality.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Agreed
[–]dszmaj 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
I never once said I support government's regulations of personal life.
[–]Oncefa2 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Sorry I mixed up who I was responding to. It was meant for OP but he still saw it anyway.
[–]PlatinumBeetle 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Murder is a moral issue. Theft is a moral issue. Rape is a moral issue. Fraud is a moral issue.
Obviously there should be limits on the ways and degrees the law can regulate morality. But to say they shouldn't at all is to restrict either the jurisdiction of government or the scope of morality to ridiculous levels.
So unless you are a nihilist and/or an anarchist you're not making any kind of rational sense.
[–]dszmaj 1 point2 points3 points (55 children) | Copy Link
I agree it is immoral, but there is no other way in this situation. It's a mistake, but don't have to be a burden for life. Kids should be wanted, and unwanted children suffer immensely.
I know many of them will grow up happy and all, like you, but let's just not force them to be unhappy until they learn to be happy, because it may never happen.
[–]Oncefa2 4 points5 points6 points (2 children) | Copy Link
I think it's ok to be pro-life in your personal views so long as you don't force that onto other people. Leave the government out of it. But feel free to voice your opinion.
In this case I think the father should know, and should have input over the decision. You can argue that the mother has final say, but she should at least have to consider the father's views as well.
[–]revelation18 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
Yeah I'm antislavery personally but who am I to tell someone else not to have slaves? Keep the government out of it.
[–]PlatinumBeetle -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
I totally agree. I would never personally own a slave but I think it is a rich white person's choice and the government should not be involved and people of color shouldn't have opinions because the responsibility for the decision belongs to rich white people /s
(Seriously, this is 100% satire. Everyone should have a voice in such major human rights issues and no matter what the government will be involved. Remember that controversial practices like slavery and abortion always need laws to enforce their tolerance.)
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points (50 children) | Copy Link
I was never unhappy like that in life, and the thing is there are foster care systems in place waiting to help such people who can’t or don’t want a baby, so they can be given to responsible parents who would go to ends of the earth for that child. There are many other ways than killing the baby. We’re not forcing anyone to be unhappy by simply allowing them to be born. They get to choose how they feel about their life, their parents shouldn’t kill them based on mere assumptions.
[–]dszmaj 3 points4 points5 points (49 children) | Copy Link
2 weeks isn't a baby, it may be one several weeks later.
Anyway, I'm happy you grown up well and happy, really, but your single argument doesn't represent the average, and average is pretty fucking bad for such kids.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (48 children) | Copy Link
Because they’ve been told all their lives their unwanted. I advocate for a future where such children aren’t stigmatized and told they’re unwanted or their parents don’t love them. It’s saddening that the average isn’t the way i turned out to be but that doesn’t mean we stop there. We can still advocate for pro life movements and help inform mothers that there are more and better options out there than simply killing a baby.
And yes even at 2 weeks it’s a baby, a human. Life begins at conception. The only difference between us as an adult and that baby at, lets say 2 weeks, Is time. It’s a human no matter what stage in life.
[–]dszmaj 2 points3 points4 points (47 children) | Copy Link
I agree with you mostly on first paragraph, but then work to change mindset of people doing abortions rather than criminalizing it. Improve the good odds for those kids first, but at the same time it will change nothing about the fact that pregnancy is overall more than a year of severe health changes and forced life change, even if she decides to give it to some organization.
The part about life begins at conception is obviously BS, women's body naturally aborts such kids if it decides it's no good. It happens so often it's probably safe to assume that most child free women were pregnant at some point if they're sexually active.
It doesn't change morality of the said act, but it's not a murder by any means.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points (46 children) | Copy Link
Criminalizing it helps to stop it and allow for the change in mindset/morals to be implemented easier. If people say it’s legal they will be more inclined to belubr its ‘okay’. And yes studies have shown that the moment the sperm and egg meet, life begins. Whether or not you think it’s a life, you’re still ending what could’ve been a life if you simply waited which in my opinion if you kill a brain dead patient before they’re able to wake up is the same thing.
[–]dszmaj 0 points1 point2 points (45 children) | Copy Link
Brain dead person is not going to "wake up" 😂 it's literally the definition of death, you can make other organs work as long as you have resources to do so.
Ok, I thought we can agree on something, but you lost me when you decided that it's good to force anyone to live how you think is best and indoctrinate later in safer environment for your consciousness.
Your thinking is not any different than what we're trying to fight with here, which is true equality, freedom, and personal responsibility.
You're like leftist propaganda just opposite end of the stick. Both equally cancerogenic...
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (44 children) | Copy Link
I’m just for life. Simple as that, no matter what. That baby has the right to life
[–]MetroPicnicStalking 2 points3 points4 points (2 children) | Copy Link
Word of advice - don't bother with that sub. It's such an echo chamber that no one's actually talking - it's just the echo itself. Never read anything to do with relationships, parenting, pregnancy/abortion/birth control).
I recently read some vasectomy related posts on there.Things like (and I'm paraphrasing): "my wife wants me to get a vasectomy but I don't. AITA?" > "YTA - a vasectomy is a minor inconvenience compared to her having to take birth control every day."
"I told my wife I would get a vasectomy but I'm scared now" "YTA - you made a promise but lied to her."
"I got a vasectomy but haven't told my current partner and they want kids." > "YTA for misleading someone and depriving them of children they might want."
Only a few dissenting voices saying "Your body, your choice. If you don't want to have surgery and get your testicles operated on, that's your choice."
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
Wow... are you serious?
[–]MetroPicnicStalking 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
They are all over the place of course, since there's obviously a lot more subtext, and some will say NTA, but YTA is the general consensus from what I have seen.
[–]kudichangedlives 4 points5 points6 points (15 children) | Copy Link
I disagree and I'm a man. If the baby would ruin 3 lives then it would be immoral to introduce it into the world imo. I love my dog more than almost anything but he ruptured a spinal disc earlier this week and if the steroids don't help then I'm about to put him down. He loves the outdoors and he will not have any quality of life if he can only sit on a bed all day because his back legs dont work. Just different peoples opinion man
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points (13 children) | Copy Link
I know. We’re all entitled to our own opinion, mine is simply that no baby should pay for the consequences of the mother or father, she chose to have sex knowing the risks so it’s her responsibility. To kill the child because of it is not ideal. I’m sure there are services to help such women in these situations.
[+]AgitatedMoose61 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
Children should be born because they are wanted and will be welcomed happily into the family, not as the punishment for having sex.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Punishment for having sex?? The only reason sex exists was to pro create, the feel good feelings you get from it are a bi product of sex. It’s not a punishment to have a baby it’s a responsibility one chooses to risk when having sex. And there are many foster homes who are willing to take in babies who are then put into loving homes where parents who are willing to adopt will adopt them and love them unconditionally. Killing the baby isn’t any better than “not loving” them.
[–]kudichangedlives 1 point2 points3 points (10 children) | Copy Link
Depends on the country and the social standing and the family. I personally believe that it's almost like never having that child in the first place because I dont really believe in the soul. I personally dont remember anything from before I was like 10 so I dont think there would be much of a difference between dying young and never having been born. But its probably different for you
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (9 children) | Copy Link
Yeah it is, I do indeed believe in the soul. As well as the inalienable rights to life a baby, just like any adult, has.
[–]kudichangedlives 0 points1 point2 points (8 children) | Copy Link
Any adult that can afford it and isnt sterile*
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (7 children) | Copy Link
So an adult who can’t afford it should just die then? Lol
[–]kudichangedlives 0 points1 point2 points (6 children) | Copy Link
That's how the world works, if you cant afford to live then you dont live. It isnt fair but it's what happens
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (5 children) | Copy Link
Yeah no, I’m for helping others and giving others a chance. I come from a low income family and I see people who can’t afford to live yet make something great of them selves, that’s not how the world works
[–]kudichangedlives 0 points1 point2 points (4 children) | Copy Link
I also support social welfare policies, but I've also seen people die in the streets. The world doesnt change because you want it to
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
So you’re saying people should die if they can’t afford the cost of living? Meaning we should kill those people?
[–]JaxJags904 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
You disagree that the man should even KNOW? OP even specifically said that it is the women’s choice to abort if she wants, but the man doesn’t even have the right to know it happened?
[–]kofybean 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Wow. That was hard to read.
Man: Exist.
Comment section: He is a murderer who emotionally abuses women and is only capable of doing harm.
[+]AgitatedMoose61 points [recovered] (10 children) | Copy Link
A father has a right to know about a baby, but she's only 5 weeks pregnant. That's not a baby yet.
I'm pro choice. I believe fathers and mothers should have equal rights to children when they are born. I'm against these women who view the baby as their baby and think they can choose whether or not to allow the father to be a Dad.
But when it is just a woman's body that has to go through 9 months of pregnancy and childbirth, the final decision on carrying the pregnancy must be deferred to her. I've watched my wife be pregnant with hyperemesis gravidarum and go through childbirth. It is horrible what they go through. I'm not OK with forcing a woman to do that.
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points (9 children) | Copy Link
I’m pro life but aside from the pro choice/life argument. I agree that both the father and mother have equal rights to the baby, you can’t just exclude the father that’s not fair.
[+]AgitatedMoose61 points [recovered] (8 children) | Copy Link
I have no tolerance or patience for women who want to erase the father from the kid's lives because they don't like him anymore, but I don't think it is right that a man can force a woman to go through pregnancy when she doesn't want to.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points (7 children) | Copy Link
I don’t say a man should force a woman to be pregnant but I do say that the woman shouldn’t be ill informed either, and that she should understand both sides of the argument on whether or not she should have the baby, and if the father doesn’t want the mother to have the abortion they should be able to argue that point
[+]AgitatedMoose61 points [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link
A woman isn't obligated to to tell a man she is having a medical procedure just because he cum inside of her (and of course, a woman isn't entitled to a man's medical information because she got on his dick).
Disagree. It is not his body that will spend 9 months pregnant and bearing all the side effects of that, nor him that will have to get that pumpkin size baby out of a much smaller opening.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (5 children) | Copy Link
So that gives her the right to kill his son or daughter? No they should be able to argue it like two parents who have equal rights and representation should. Doesn’t matter if it’s coming out of her body, the father at the very least has equal representation and say in the matter
[+]AgitatedMoose61 points [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link
I don't believe abortion is murder, so yes, I do believe she has the right to unilaterally decide she is not going to spend 9 months pregnant, go through childbirth, and then spend a couple of months in recovery.
the father at the very least has equal representation and say in the matter
If a child is born, absolutely. But no way should any of us have a say over a woman's body before there is a baby.
No they should be able to argue it like two parents who have equal rights and representation should.
They are not parents of a child yet. A woman is pregnant. Big difference.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points (3 children) | Copy Link
No one has the right to murder a child because you don’t want to go through pregnancy, when someone deliberately chooses to have sex they also choose to take risks, no matter what methods used to stop abortion. So if they have a baby, that’s their responsibility, they shouldn’t justify killing him/her.
I don’t say the man has say over a woman’s body, I say the man has the right to know about his child and has the right to argue whether or not he wants to keep the baby. A baby is a product of two people, now, unless the woman impregnated her self, the father has equal representation before and after because it’s their child not her child. Plus the child is separate from the woman’s body.
They are parents, the world parents is self originated from Latin, “parere” meaning to bring fourth, aka to being upon the conception of life, they are both parents, and equally representative of their child that they conceived.
[+]AgitatedMoose61 points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
Again, I don't believe that ending a pregnancy is murdering a child, so you are not going to convince me by continuing to use that line. I also don't believe that consent to sex is consent to spending a year of your life pregnant and recovering from child birth.
When the man can equally take on the burden of pregnancy and volunteer themselves to go thorough it and childbirth, maybe, but until then. No. Just no.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
Well by ending a pregnancy you’re ending a premature life, which is still a life within itself regarded, when you have an abortion all your doing is killing a baby then taking it out of the mother. And yes when you consent to sex you are also indirectly consenting to taking the risks with it which are getting pregnant. Sex is natures way of reproducing, when you take the bi product of sex, which is pleasure, and simply have sex for that bi product, you are still inherently risking having a baby, because that’s what sex is.. so when you end up Having a baby, it’s not a mistake, cause that’s what sex is meant for.
The man impregnated the woman, without the man you can’t have a baby and vice versa, it’s a two way street. You can’t leave him out of before. I don’t say the man has the right to force the woman to give birth or abort but I say the man has the right to argue whether or not he wants the baby because that is his son or daughter as well
[–]Evilcon21 0 points1 point2 points (4 children) | Copy Link
The father has every right to know. Shame if anyone who says that on the subreddit will be downvoted to kingdom come. There’s been alot of instances of that happening when ever i dare to comment.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
I’m commented and within 10 mins already got 8 downvotes
[–]Evilcon21 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
Yep as I thought. Idk if the subreddit has a thing against men or something.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Probably just the amount of leftist is what amounts to these downvotes. It’s considered ‘woke’ nowadays to have this sheep mentality where everyone shares the same POV and if you don’t you are automatically bad
[–]RacelessSexlessName 0 points1 point2 points (4 children) | Copy Link
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/e78h2o/aita_for_getting_an_abortion_without_telling_an/f9z7whb/?context=1000
Serious echo chambering and flat out lying and misusing statistics. Surprised? Nope.
I'm pro choice, but with the way these people are acting any more I'm leaning towards they need to suffer the consequences of their actions. Men have to be held responsible, well, so do women.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
Agreed, finally a sane person on this sub
[–]RacelessSexlessName 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
I should never be considered "sane." I think the world should burn and I wish we could socially fund a nuke to throw into Yellowstone to give things a little push... maybe just set it off at the tail end of the ring of fire and kickstart some Earth engine shit...
The world needs a reset button, soon.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Well let me rephrase that, your comment before this is sane..
[–]PlatinumBeetle 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Wanting the world to burn in some degree is a sane reaction to a world of overwhelming insanity.