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So, when a father takes his own children he is a kidnapper?

QODtv

October 6, 2017
24 upvotes
/r/MensRights
https://www.qodtv.com/top-blog-post/2017/09/22/When-Is-Kidnapping-Legal
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Post Information
Title So, when a father takes his own children he is a kidnapper?
Author

QODtv

Upvotes 24
Comments 18
Date October 6, 2017 12:00 PM UTC
(8 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/74n57a/so_when_a_father_takes_his_own_children_he_is_a/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/so-when-a-father-takes-his-own-children-he-is-a.913361
https://theredarchive.com/post/913361
Top posts by QODtv

When a father has his back against the wall this is the outcome......

3 upvotes
October 9, 2017
/r/MensRights

Comments

[–]Mr_MRAnarchist 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

This is why child support should be contingent on access to the child. Plus, failure to provide access to the child should result in kidnapping charges being brought forward automatically for all individuals.

[–]QODtv[S] 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

this is true. thanks for your feedback on the issue!

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I'm not sold on the whole "support is contingent on access to child" angle, as it would implicitly give rise to the notion that if mom denies child support, she could deny access.

However, I am a huge fan of automatic kidnapping charges against a parent interfering with the execution of the court order.

[–]Mr_MRAnarchist 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

What I'm saying is that you get child support, he gets access to the child. You don't give him access to the child, he doesn't pay you AND you face kidnapping charges. That way he's not on the hook for those payments while the whole thing is being dealt with.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I know, but that would lead to situations where mom would think that she can deny access through denying receipt of support. Worse, potentially, is that I'm sure many courts would take that stance as well.

No, it's better to keep the two separate. However, anyone found to be violating the custody through the denial of one's custodial time should be brought up on kidnapping charges.

[–]QODtv[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

All this is great feedback! grasshopa I understand what your saying unfortunately a lot of fathers out here don't have the money for an attorney or the knowledge and will power to represent themselves in the court room. The reality is if the child is had out of wedlock then the father has NO rights to his own child and can be charged kidnapping if he was to take the child and the mom have an issue all of the sudden. There is a video of my court struggle posted on the same site as this post called how far is a father willing to go. Its a good watch.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Wait, can't you use sender verification? Like how ups has a, "you must sign for this to verify you got it, before I give it to you" insurance policy. Then, you could just keep the slips for evidence of arrival?

[–]PlastIconoclastic 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Yes. Parents who deny access to children according to the custody schedule and do not make themselves available to law enforcement to resolve the dispute and have made their locations secret to avoid law-enforcement should be charged with kidnapping.

[–]QODtv[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you for your feedback. I understand, getting a custody schedule is where a lot of fathers a falling short.

[–]Trunk-Monkey 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

This would suggest that when a mother denies the father access to his child, she is guilty of kidnapping as well. What if she hasn't 'napped' the kid at all and is just refusing access? Is it only kidnapping if she hides her location?

What about women who refuse to name a father, or name the wrong man as the father, on the birth certificate? She is certainly denying access to the biological father. Does that make failure to accurately name the biological father kidnapping?

I'm not really disagreeing with you, but kidnapping is probably the wrong label for this, and the root problem is one of unequal parental rights and the assumption that the mother is the default parent.

[–]PlastIconoclastic 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Personal story: I live in California and maintained 50-50 custody of my children for several years. Holidays were every other year with alternating parents. When my special holiday days would come, my family would arrive from out of town, and my plans would be made with my children. The mother of my children would disappear. I would send police to her house that we were supposed to meet at and exchange the children, I would give them her contact information and report my children missing. She would not return contact with the police until after she had had her holiday plans. This is kidnapping. The way that police would deal with it is to say there was a simple disagreement about the custody arrangement that needed to be settled by Family Court. They would say this every time and nothing was ever changed when these issues were brought up in Family Court. Making this a crime instead of a civil matter would discourage Parents from trampling all over agreements that were made in court and signed by a judge.

[–]PlastIconoclastic 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The reason I said it would only be kidnapping if she hides her location is because if you know where she is you can call the police to enforce the custody order and that is something that they will do. Then you will leave with your children after you present them with the signed judgment with clear dates and schedules.

[–]QODtv[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Im sorry about that i know how difficult co parenting can be. (My personal story is in a video on the same website qodtv.com called how strong is a fathers will.) Im in Florida and even with a court order if its the mother the cops always say its a civil matter and you have to file contempt of court in order to have that order enforced (anybody else must release the child if you have a court order) thank you for sharing your personal story as a lot of fathers go through this

[–]QODtv[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for your response. Unfortunately the way the laws are set up the mother has every right to deny access to the child that was had out of wedlock. The mother has complete control when the couple is not married. This is why it wouldnt be considered kidnapping on the mother side. Your absolutely right about the problem being one of unequal rights.

[–]PlastIconoclastic 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Marriage has nothing to do with custody. The fact is custody for men is a difficult uphill battle even when they were married to the mother for years.

[–]QODtv[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Correct we were talking about fathers rights, you have more rights married as a father than you do not being married. Both situations generally has the father getting the short end of the stick.

[–]PlastIconoclastic 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I’m sure many divorced men who have no access to their children would disagree with you.

[–]QODtv[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks again for your opinion and feedback

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